Can A Card Holder Sell To Another Cardholder?

[someonelse812]

 if I sell (or give and ask for a donation if that matters) to another cardholder is this legal? Or do I need to be an official caregiver?

[mibrains]

not only do you need to be an official caregiver... you need to be their caregiver.

 

to qualify for section four protections from arrest you must be connected via LARA and have a card with your patient or caregivers name on it before you can transfer cannabis with or without compensation.

[computergroove]

I do not think that this has been properly defined in the law as it is stated in ACT 512 -> http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/2011-2012/publicact/pdf/2012-PA-0512.pdf. Look at section 4 b k. I believe that this is a positive defense for doing a caregiver to caregiver transfer for medical purposes only.

 

working link -> http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/2011-2012/publicact/pdf/2012-PA-0512.pdf

Edited October 13, 2013 by computergroove

[bobandtorey]

I do not think that this has been properly defined in the law as it is stated in ACT 512 -> http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/2011-2012/publicact/pdf/2012-PA-0512.pdf. Look at section 4 b k. I believe that this is a positive defense for doing a caregiver to caregiver transfer for medical purposes only.

Link Broken 404

Their was one case i know of that got dismissed for caregiver to caregiver back in 2009 he was the first case like this in the State 

i don't think it will happen again IMHO

 

but i am not sure of your ACT 512  or what it is 

[jointedone]

Edited October 16, 2013 by jointedone

[Celliach]

PT to PT is illegal according to the Michigan Supreme Court.

 

It is not entirely clear whether CG to CG is legal.  Following the MSC rulings in the past. I do not think they consider it legal.  If they eventually do, it will only be because someone was arrested and dragged through the court system for several years to get to the MSC.

[phaquetoo]

 

if I sell (or give and ask for a donation if that matters) to another cardholder is this legal? Or do I need to be an official caregiver?

 yes if your name is on the back of their card as a c.g and their name is on the the back of your c.g card, only way to legaly do it! nuff said, no way to get around it, well you could do it and spend thousands in court to maybe get more of our law taken away from us!

 

Peace

[jointedone]

Edited October 16, 2013 by jointedone

[Celliach]

There's no evidence at all that it has brought down drunk driving arrests.  Not sure where you got that idea.  

 

F*** taxing it!  I don't have to pay tax on my vegetable garden!

 

The reason people go to jail over the MMJ is that it has defined a narrow set of rules that we have to follow.  Driving is legal, but people still go to jail when they break the driving rules.  I don't like this, but it is what it is.  Until full legalization with no regulation or taxes happens then Marijuana will never be fully free.

[Dr. Bob]

The only person that can legally transfer to you is the caregiver that is listed on the back of your card.  You as a patient can obtain anywhere, but the p2p, cg2cg, or WHATEVER variation you try to use to justify any other transfer will run you afoul of the MMMA.  IF they wanted 'any' in the Act, they would use the word 'any', not 'a' or 'their'...

 

1 patient 12 plants

1 caregiver 5 patients

 

Pretty simple.

 

Dr. Bob

[jointedone]

Edited October 16, 2013 by jointedone

[Celliach]

It has nothing to do with you personally.  It has to do with putting out correct information on the forum boards.  If you notice under my avatar it says Forum Leader.  It is my job to make sure that correct information is put forward on the board.  When I see something that I know not to be true, I will refute it as I'm supposed to do.  

 

The claim that the MMMA has cut down on drunk driving arrests has been made before.  There is no evidence for it.  It was a claim started by a member of the community that has since been discredited.  If we want to be taken seriously by the powers that be. we have to make sure we know what we're talking about when dealing with them.

 

If you don't want to be correcrted, please make sure that you are making valid claims.

[jointedone]

Edited October 16, 2013 by jointedone

[+washtenaut]

Well, not specifically MMMA related, this does speak to the topic.

 

http://michiganmedicalmarijuana.org/topic/43991-do-medical-marijuana-laws-save-lives-on-the-road/?hl=%2Bcolorado+%2Bdrunk+%2Bdriving

[Kingdiamond]

 if I sell (or give and ask for a donation if that matters) to another cardholder is this legal? Or do I need to be an official caregiver?

There are no cardholder to cardholders transfers  the person has to be registered as your patient via the states medical marijuana registry before you can transfer them medicine .

[grateful411]

I think he said deaths not arrest? I'm not sure for michigan but their are studies out their that show states that have mm have dropped their road fatalities by as much as 10%. http://healthland.time.com/2011/12/02/why-medical-marijuana-laws-reduce-traffic-deaths/

[Celliach]

I have in fact seen that study and it has not yet been peer-reviewed.  As much as I would like to take the study at face value, and believe me I do.  There still isn't enough evidence.  We aren't even sure if this study was accurate.

 

I will admit that I made a mistake in my original post.  There was someone in our community claiming that drunk driving arrests were down since MMJ was passed in the state of Michigan.  There was also a massive lay-off of state police around the same time the MMMA was passed.  The decrease in drunk driving arrests was attributed to less officers on the road then to the use of MMJ.  I was even thinking about this other study because as I said, it hasn't been peer-reviewed yet.  

 

In the scientific community a study isn't considered valid until someone else reviews the information or does the same study that is not connected to the original people conducting the study.  While I want to consider this one study valid, the Scientific community, according to their own standards, wouldn't.

 

I do apologize for misreading the original statement.  That apology would have come anyway if the mistake I made had been pointed out instead of the name-calling.  

 

Thanks Darren84 for pointing out my mistake.

[Highlander]

I have in fact seen that study and it has not yet been peer-reviewed.  As much as I would like to take the study at face value, and believe me I do.  There still isn't enough evidence.  We aren't even sure if this study was accurate.

 

I will admit that I made a mistake in my original post.  There was someone in our community claiming that drunk driving arrests were down since MMJ was passed in the state of Michigan.  There was also a massive lay-off of state police around the same time the MMMA was passed.  The decrease in drunk driving arrests was attributed to less officers on the road then to the use of MMJ.  I was even thinking about this other study because as I said, it hasn't been peer-reviewed yet.  

 

In the scientific community a study isn't considered valid until someone else reviews the information or does the same study that is not connected to the original people conducting the study.  While I want to consider this one study valid, the Scientific community, according to their own standards, wouldn't.

 

I do apologize for misreading the original statement.  That apology would have come anyway if the mistake I made had been pointed out instead of the name-calling.  

 

Thanks Darren84 for pointing out my mistake.

 

 

Ok...and at the same time we have a poster saying that MJ arrests have increased with our new law.  I don't buy it.  I'd like to see some hard numbers/FACTS.  I know first-hand of multiple people - self included...who have avoided arrest with our new protections.   So if someone has some real facts that support the idea that we have had an increase in MJ-grower arrests in Michigan.....please post the source of your data...otherwise, you can fade into the the obscurity of rhetoric. 

 

The real truth is that the MMMA protects people who follow it to the letter.  Maybe it burns you if you can't work in the grey area....but the truth remains that just about everyone who sticks to 12 plants/2.5 oz per patient hasn't had an issue. 

[bobandtorey]

Ok...and at the same time we have a poster saying that MJ arrests have increased with our new law.  I don't buy it.  I'd like to see some hard numbers/FACTS.  I know first-hand of multiple people - self included...who have avoided arrest with our new protections.   So if someone has some real facts that support the idea that we have had an increase in MJ-grower arrests in Michigan.....please post the source of your data...otherwise, you can fade into the the obscurity of rhetoric. 

 

The real truth is that the MMMA protects people who follow it to the letter.  Maybe it burns you if you can't work in the grey area....but the truth remains that just about everyone who sticks to 12 plants/2.5 oz per patient hasn't had an issue. 

Our friend Brandy Z  has a story some wears on line in a news paper that does say arrest for Cannabis use r up almost 400% since 2008 

 

if you don't find it let me know i will look

Edited October 14, 2013 by bobandtorey

[Cap'N Kush]

PT to PT is illegal according to the Michigan Supreme Court.

 

It is not entirely clear whether CG to CG is legal. Following the MSC rulings in the past. I do not think they consider it legal. If they eventually do, it will only be because someone was arrested and dragged through the court system for several years to get to the MSC.

Your right in that, law enforcement and the prosecuted could prosecute a CG, and most likely would. But I do believe the MSC would rule any CG to CG, or CG to Pataint would be legal. I say this because....

#1 There ruling on the hole driving thing. Pretty mind blowing IMO.

#2 If the were no transfers at all unless it was registered, the system could not work. How would CG's get Seeds or Clones? Also the law states that a Pataint can purchase meds o the black market and be protected, the argument would be, why would a Pataint purchasing meds in the black market be protected, but purchasing from a CG be illegal.

#3 when they made there ruling they said P2P were illegal, they said nothing about CG 2 P or CG 2 CG.

 

Basically it's all up in the air, what's sad is these making whoopee donkey holes, are ruining people's lives in there attempt to decided what the bunny muffin means. Like Idk. I just don't understand the concept of the law needing to be interpreted. Well I understand that, I just can't wrap my head around the total stupidity if the hole thing, and how people could think this is the way to do things. But then again Im not retarted.

Pizza

 

Ps just make who ever you sell to, smoke some weed before any money is exchange, and make sure any one else in the room smokes two. Some one doesn't smoke, nothing gets sold. Cops can't smoke pot. So you better see the inhale. Also sale with out remuneration is a 90 day misdemeanor. So sharing a bowl with a narc, won't get you into to much trouble. Probably cost you a couple grand.

[Natesilver]

Some would argue that an unregistered caregiver can legally transfer to his/her patient.

[Highlander]

. Also sale with out remuneration is a 90 day misdemeanor. So sharing a bowl with a narc, won't get you into to much trouble. Probably cost you a couple grand.

 

Careful with this idea.  The courts have said that if you violate the MMMA, you lose all of its protections.  So you might be completely legal with your 72-plant grow and your 15 dried oz. on-hand....etc.  But if you transfer meds to someone who isn't your registered patient, they (PA, courts, LEO) can pull the whole rug out from under you.  And suddenly you don't have any Section 4 protection for the plants you're growing.  "Distribution without remuneration"..a high-court misdemeanor would be OK if you didn't have a grow going.  But suddenly you lose protection for your grow, and you get charged with a 4-year felony if not worse.

[Cap'N Kush]

Careful with this idea. The courts have said that if you violate the MMMA, you lose all of its protections. So you might be completely legal with your 72-plant grow and your 15 dried oz. on-hand....etc. But if you transfer meds to someone who isn't your registered patient, they (PA, courts, LEO) can pull the whole rug out from under you. And suddenly you don't have any Section 4 protection for the plants you're growing. "Distribution without remuneration"..a high-court misdemeanor would be OK if you didn't have a grow going. But suddenly you lose protection for your grow, and you get charged with a 4-year felony if not worse.

I suppose your right. But they can't exactly pull the rug out from under you when there isn't any determination wheather this is even legal or not.

 

The real problim, is that these prosecuters are going after anyone that they think is makeing a dollar off this, and portraying people who work 18 hour days, 375 as greedy drug dealers takeing advantage of sick people.

 

Anyways back on point, there are already cases, that are going in front of the MSC. Dont know what? But I know there are some. So hopefully it gets worked out, in our benefit.

 

So in the meantime, and Im sure a lot of people will be so appalled I say this. But Im pre med, so I think a little differant than some of you. Keep it gangster. Treat it like you would if it wasnt legal. If you were in a non med state would you sell a bag to a total stranger with no one to vouche for them. I sure hope not. Lol

 

Stay safe people, and if you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen. Becouse right now, it's hot. Lol seriously.

[Dr. Bob]

Some would argue that an unregistered caregiver can legally transfer to his/her patient

Do that with a cop and you will see how far the argument gets you.  Right to County and a conviction.  

 

Dr. Bob

[Celliach]

I suppose your right. But they can't exactly pull the rug out from under you when there isn't any determination wheather this is even legal or not.

 

The real problim, is that these prosecuters are going after anyone that they think is makeing a dollar off this, and portraying people who work 18 hour days, 375 as greedy drug dealers takeing advantage of sick people.

 

Anyways back on point, there are already cases, that are going in front of the MSC. Dont know what? But I know there are some. So hopefully it gets worked out, in our benefit.

 

So in the meantime, and Im sure a lot of people will be so appalled I say this. But Im pre med, so I think a little differant than some of you. Keep it gangster. Treat it like you would if it wasnt legal. If you were in a non med state would you sell a bag to a total stranger with no one to vouche for them. I sure hope not. Lol

 

Stay safe people, and if you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen. Becouse right now, it's hot. Lol seriously.

 

All you need is for the judge trying you to decide that it's illegal, and that's after the police, who think it is illegal, have arrested you and trashed all your equipment and plants.  It's also after you may, or may not, have paid several thousand dollars in bail money.