2012 Registration Conditions

[trichcycler]

Debilitating Condition

Number of Patients

Original 10/1/2011– 9/30/2012

Renewals

10/1/2011– 9/30/2012

AIDS

119

151

Alzheimers

18

17

Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis

11

14

Cachexia

274

337

Cancer

1,160

1,366

Crohn’s Disease

299

579

Glaucoma

391

721

Hepatitis C

548

1,069

HIV

128

158

Nail Patela

25

13

Seizures – Epilepsy

612

802

Severe and Chronic Pain

34,218

45,095

Severe and Persistent Muscle Spasms

8,697

13,553

 

 

Severe

Nausea

4,064

5,020

Wasting Syndrome

320

342

 

 

 

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/lara/FY_2012_Medical_Marihuana_Annual_Report_Statistics_409663_7.pdf

[bobandtorey]

Thanks again

As we know pain is the first thing that your body uses when  telling us something is wrong

[trichcycler]

I wish physicians that qualify patients with "pain" were more specific naming the qualifying disease, if listed, like cancer. What is keeping the physicians from doing this I wonder?  this shows a super small fraction of the community actually seeking healing from cancer, seems skewed to me to do that, and wouldn't it be more legitimate to name the qualifying disease(if listed) instead of the qualifying symptom?

Edited November 26, 2013 by grassmatch

[bobandtorey]

It's because of the Law as written when i first went to get my Rec. i was denied because the Doctor didn't put down i had chronic pain and Torey had Nausea because of Cancer

[Wild Bill]

I wish physicians that qualify patients with "pain" were more specific naming the qualifying disease, if listed, like cancer. What is keeping the physicians from doing this I wonder?  this shows a super small fraction of the community actually seeking healing from cancer, seems skewed to me to do that, and wouldn't it be more legitimate to name the qualifying disease(if listed) instead of the qualifying symptom?

 

Why should doctors give the state any more information than is necessary?

[GregS]

I wish physicians that qualify patients with "pain" were more specific naming the qualifying disease, if listed, like cancer. What is keeping the physicians from doing this I wonder?  this shows a super small fraction of the community actually seeking healing from cancer, seems skewed to me to do that, and wouldn't it be more legitimate to name the qualifying disease(if listed) instead of the qualifying symptom?

Umm. because it is not a good idea or necessary that we tell the government anything it does not need to know? That and the law is plain in that it does not require those specifics. Cannabis is a benign substance. Dangerous side effects might require that, but there are none. Please do not conflate it, like our opposition and even some supporters do, into a highly specialized treatment. Its benefits are evident across a wide range of suffering. Then there is the matter of privacy. Why give that away when you don't have to? What would the benefit be except to satisfy anyone's morbid curiosity or to illicitly try to deny us? Trust me. Pain is quite real. It is plenty enough to establish need. It is not necessary to get into, say, orthopedic conditions that underlie it any more than it is necessary to tell the high school girl at your drug store check out why you need aspirin. Does she need to know that you are taking it as a blood thinner because you have heart disease?

 

We have established the most wide ranging and liberal use of cannabis within the law that we could manage because we understand its wide ranging and liberal benefits.

Edited November 26, 2013 by GregS

[trichcycler]

 courts demand we qualify the recommending physician and quantify our debilitating "pain".

 

Since ALL dis-ease can be "pain" causing, supporting more qualifying conditions seems redundant with those ideals.

People with anxiety for example are at the edge of their seats supporting the possibility of it being added to the "list".

I would have thought that every cancer patient seeking cannabis as an alternative treatment would not have a problem entering it as their qualifying condition in the same respect.

  that's all there is to it, I'm quite unable to make policy with my anon opinion here. I do observe the general comments of law enforcement when they ask patients what their q condition is, strangely most are proud to announce "pain" to a street officer, who then rolls eyes. I wondered if maybe a cancer q on the doc note would halt further actions.

 

Is it our opposition that places these qualifying conditions on the list in the first place?

[imiubu]

right on, Gregs

 

My cert doctor was very excited to see "Medical Marijuana" on my medical charts from my PCP.

I however was not and told my PCP that she may have created an issue with me @ any other

doc I am referred to. Oh well, it is now part of my permenant medical records, thx doc.

My cert doc is very meticulous and wrote specifics as to my qualifying conditions.

However the amount of mj required to treat said conditions was not stated... and I like it like that.

 

gm, you post some really great information and I love reading most of your posts.

Often I am left wondering in some other posts just who's side of this you are on man.

 

Peace

Edited November 26, 2013 by imiubu

[GregS]

 courts demand we qualify the recommending physician and quantify our debilitating "pain".

 

Since ALL dis-ease can be "pain" causing, supporting more qualifying conditions seems redundant with those ideals.

People with anxiety for example are at the edge of their seats supporting the possibility of it being added to the "list".

I would have thought that every cancer patient seeking cannabis as an alternative treatment would not have a problem entering it as their qualifying condition in the same respect.

  that's all there is to it, I'm quite unable to make policy with my anon opinion here. I do observe the general comments of law enforcement when they ask patients what their q condition is, strangely most are proud to announce "pain" to a street officer, who then rolls eyes. I wondered if maybe a cancer q on the doc note would halt further actions.

 

Is it our opposition that places these qualifying conditions on the list in the first place?

You would tell the police anything why?

[trichcycler]

I agree with your sentiments greg, but people are not getting jailed for buying aspirin at the pharmacy, nor are they breaking federal laws doing so, or even need a physicians qualification/state permission for aspirin. I didn't cause those to be necessary for cannabis, but I did vote for the Act as written, so guilty for the confusion too. I think any detailed medical record in court will be more effective defense fodder than ambiguous statements by a would be qualifying physician, many who are failing us I hear. I've never seen any but pain as the QC, and know that to be a thorn in the sides of leo.

 

I have never been involved with law enforcement and medical marijuana, except at city hall, and never needed to explain anything to them. I would decline trying to, without legal representation if put in that position. I am referring to others and their interludes.

[GregS]

Fwiw, the physician's statement included as a supporting document with the pt/cg contract I have proposed can be modified to include any information a patient and their physician can agree on. It is not to be considered to be inflexible and is in no way copyrighted. If you can do that without adding risk to your potential defense, then by all means. Knock yourself out. If you think you will benefit by doing that, then best of luck and keep us posted.

Edited November 26, 2013 by GregS

[trichcycler]

I'm going to keep on doing what I've always done, because I like the results I've always gotten.

No need to reinvent the wheel here. I'm in full compliancy, and intend to remain. I to have the minimal

information listed on my paperwork, and never suspected I will be in court. my suspicions have been true.

 

 both my primary and my Q doc would be willing to testify on behalf my mmma participation, one to my brand of "pain" and the other to the underlying

cause of that pain. there will be need to question my eligibility afterwards. My leg is fugged up, and has hurt for a lifetime

all the way up to my neck. Luckily it absorbed most of the impact of my face going through the windshield @ 75mph. I love my leg,

it saved my life, and both deserve to be pain free. I expect no challenges from LEO ever.

 

however, with the talk of mill docs and qualifying at the fairgrounds, I thought maybe some detail may offer help to all the patients without such pain history,

if some details were explained. I see a doctor to recommend medical anything to me, and I would fully expect him to check box a listed condition, as well as any other symptoms on the list in front of him, and be able to testify to that fact of those issues. I think that is a fair expectation myself, but I also see your points well.

[trichcycler]

So you say YOUR qualifying doc did list your actual qualifying condition(s) and not just your pain symptom? But you agree that he should not have done so, in providing that much detail?  huh?

right on, Gregs

 

My cert doctor was very excited to see "Medical Marijuana" on my medical charts from my PCP.

I however was not and told my PCP that she may have created an issue with me @ any other

doc I am referred to. Oh well, it is now part of my permenant medical records, thx doc.

My cert doc is very meticulous and wrote specifics as to my qualifying conditions.

However the amount of mj required to treat said conditions was not stated... and I like it like that.

 

gm, you post some really great information and I love reading most of your posts.

Often I am left wondering in some other posts just who's side of this you are on man.

 

Peace

[jimmiej48]

I have cronic pain in my knees and my doctor at the clinic I go to in ann arbor documented in his records I have chronic pain in my knees and I didnt have any issues with my card and getting approved

[trichcycler]

Of course not. Just look, pain is the number one qualifying condition listed by our state. We're pondering whether Pain should be listed, along with Cancer, as the qualifying condition, or just "pain"  If my pain and spasms were the symptoms  caused by crohns disease, I believed that the additional detail "Crohns", as listed in the qualifying conditions list and checked,  might fair better if a patient found himself in front of a judge for some reason, as opposed to just "pain".

I personally would want my medical records to be as detailed as possible describing my personal qualifying condition(s), and some feel less is best.

[imiubu]

nope gm, I agree with Gregs that it is not necessary and no need to push for them to have more information

than is already required IMHO.

 

I stated that my certification doctor did so, and that was just a statement of what was done in my case.

Do I have issue with it? No. It is done.

[trichcycler]

I see, thank you for clarification. Know that I am not pushing for more info being put out there, only sharing my opinion, with court challenges in mind, as in the above post.

 

The courts however have made mention of an incomplete qualifications check off, in bobtory case. nausea, instead of the underlying cancer, and thought maybe some of these instances would benefit with a more detailed medical account.  How will the courts verify a bona fide...if the Q doesn't even know the underlying condition causing the patients pain, was my thought.  for instance their may be instances where cannabis is indicated for the symptom of pain, except where it is contraindicated, a court could argue, thus showing a bona fide relationship was not established, as the doc wasn't even aware of the patients medical condition, only a symptom. docs never asked me how much info I want on the form, and I believe they are somehow protecting themselves by not listing the underlying listed conditions, but that's just me///I'll go ask DR. Bob about that soon

[imiubu]

Alright, understood

Oh, & could you ask bob in a pm please?

tyia

[trichcycler]

I will, for the "please", but that was not my first intention. May I ask why you don't want the answer in public ?

Alright, understood

Oh, & could you ask bob in a pm please?

tyia

[trichcycler]

thank you imiubu. I gave your avatar name a first  thought this morning, and got it, now I like you even more than before!

 

No need to take sides, we all need cannabis, we all feel its ridiculous to be forced by men to gain permission to grow our own.

I feel there are several sides represented here. Some are commercial, some personal, some criminal, some spiritual. We all have our own reasons and motivations for

taking the risk of federal violations, and jail time. Some of us propose to be the devils advocate, and some just read and listen to all the sides. many don't even participate, until something really strikes them. I read this forum for years before finally joining, and then posting. Not sure why, but infighting, and the whole scandal with the original admins and their money was disheartening to me. The support of illegal dispensaries was rampant, even when most understood the laws making them target. Folks still support the commercial models of dispensaries, fueling the black eyes on our Act. Some believe those rogue operators are the very activists responsible for our privilege. I don't judge them, or their supporters though, as I agree all unjust laws should be broken at once.

I don't really know whats right or wrong in this arena, so I speak the truths many are afraid to voice, or ponder even. Although some scenarios I may bring up might get your nerve, and if extrapolated may even appear anti mmma to some, most astute readers have picked up my vibes, and gained insight to what I believe in.

I'm in no way obligated to side with anyone here, or join any teams. If we all believed in the same things, there would be no discussions, and we'd still be in tye dyes expecting change at the capitol steps.  I love that we can all step into the shoes of one another, and agree to disagree often. I like people, and mostly when they're honest, and most of all, honest with themselves.

I don't hide my intentions, here or anywhere, and am well published in the annals of assholeness, for pulling truths out. I get out of line often, and inject emotion too, as humans do. I stand corrected, and apologize also when I feel necessary, and even when others feel it necessary.

 

If we all just stared at our kaleidoscopes speaking of nicey nice and dream world, where would we be now. these forums function because of opposing views. I can tell I'm on to something, when I get scolded, or challenged, and sometimes that fires me up.  rest assured though, when my screen gets closed, so does this scene. I'm a peaceful yoga practicing man, with beautiful longevity and great love in my life. I've enjoyed cannabis for more years than not. I believe I am on your side imiubu, even though we may not agree on everything, or anything at all. I've not seen ANY of the "sides" involved in our plight clearly defined, except one. Leave my herb alone, call it what it is, and get out of my life. I am on the side of that side for sure, and keeping it real.

 

pacem,  fratribus et sororibus

gm, you post some really great information and I love reading most of your posts.

Often I am left wondering in some other posts just who's side of this you are on man.

 

Peace

[GregS]

More Americans suffer from pain than any other medical condition or symptom. It's pretty simple.

[trichcycler]

some interesting findings here http://www.painmed.org/patientcenter/facts_on_pain.aspx#America

 

With 9.883 million folks in MI, and 6,226,290 in favor of medical marijuana, I would like to know why less than 3% seek help with their pain management,

and with 57,560 cases of cancer, (http://www.cancer.org/acs/groups/content/@epidemiologysurveilance/documents/document/acspc-036845.pdf) why only less than 3% of them sought cannabis treatments in Michigan, either for symptoms or for the qualifying condition of cancer?

 

less than 3%?  I would have hoped for  63% of cancer victims to be part of our program.

even though pain treatments exist the majority of terminally ill people die in pain. sad. I'm no statistician or mathematician, but we've got some more educating to do for sure. The people in the most need have passed on registered cannabis use. Is a  physicians reluctance to recommend, or the threat of losing ones doctor keeping our most vulnerable in pain and strung out on prescription alternatives vs natural ones?  those doctors must make a stand for their patients, and first do no harm.

[GregS]

Pain affects more Americans than diabetes, heart disease and cancer combined. The chart below depicts the number of chronic pain sufferers compared to other major health conditions.

 

Condition Number of Sufferers Source

 

Chronic Pain 100 million Americans Institute of Medicine of The National Academies

 

Diabetes 25.8 million Americans
(diagnosed and estimated undiagnosed) American Diabetes Association

 

Coronary Heart Disease
(heart attack and chest pain)

16.3 million Americans
Stroke 7.0 million Americans American Heart Association

 

Cancer 11.9 million Americans American Cancer Society

 

This is from the source cited in your prior post grassmatch.

Edited November 27, 2013 by GregS

[trichcycler]

yet the majority of medical marijuana supporters, and the majority of people in general, are not seeking alternative pain management with medical marijuana, wth is up with that?

[GregS]

Dunno.