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blackhorse

Cbd Edibles And Seizures

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Has anyone had positive results from using CBD edibles to treat seizures? We have read a lot about CBD oil and plan to try this later this fall. Just not sure the edibles will help with the seizures.

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in theory it should work, as long as you decarb cbda to cbd but dont boil/burn the cbd to cbn/cbg... there was a study on cbd with epileptics, they gave adults between 200-300mg per day. so make sure your edibles contain near those amounts for the theraputic dosage. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7413719

I'm not sure it's even possible to measure how much CBD you are administering. And since they only tried one dosage amount then how do we know that it's the amount everyone needs? 

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does the whole plant/thc included extraction help with the seizures?

I know a few it does. I'm working on gradually removing the THC with heat for the patients that are uncomfortable with some of the effects related with THC. Find an amount of oil that works then cook it at 350 degrees for gradual descending time periods to find the perfect dose.  Oil in a gel cap is the same as a medible but with better controls of the dosage. 

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does the whole plant/thc included extraction help with the seizures?

 

The smoking of high thc doesn't seen to help. Maybe we need to try high thc edibles?

 

We will experiment with the cbd editables, was not sure if edibles had same effect as the oil.

 

Thanks to all for the info.

Edited by blackhorse

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I mean to say have you "eaten  the oil" first before fussing with trying a cbd only.   when we smoke its difficult to obtain the high level of active ingredients necessary for some ailments. Using the extraction allows us to ingest a quarter ounce of medicine at once.

imo an edible made with food as the solvent is a waste of a good tasting brownie for instance.

An extraction of oil like resto mentioned, added to a foodstuff makes so much more sense to me than ruining a pound of butter and a batch of brownie mix

with the taste of grass.  

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I'm not sure it's even possible to measure how much CBD you are administering. And since they only tried one dosage amount then how do we know that it's the amount everyone needs?

3mg/kg is the dose found in the 1900 us pharmacopia.

 

I think it is based on how much they feed to a dog before the dog was intoxicated on hash.

 

But feel free to ignore hundreds of years of cannabis medicine history.

 

Obviously this dose won't work for everyone, and could also be too much. It's something to start with anyway. More than some guy on the internet non physician advice.

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3mg/kg is the dose found in the 1900 us pharmacopia.

 

I think it is based on how much they feed to a dog before the dog was intoxicated on hash.

 

But feel free to ignore hundreds of years of cannabis medicine history.

 

Obviously this dose won't work for everyone, and could also be too much. It's something to start with anyway. More than some guy on the internet non physician advice.

How do you measure that? Can you explain yourself a little better? You make it sound so easy but you don't explain any process to get the measurement you recommended. 3mg/kg, wtf is that wiseguy?

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The nice thing about whole plant extracts is that they didn't see a bell curve on dosage you see with just CBD or synthetic CBD instead they saw a rise and leveling.  Which means you can  go over the therapeutic dose and still achieve the same results instead of getting diminishing results by going overdosage.. 

To estimate the dosage you need to look at oils percentage of CBD in a gram, shown in mg on iron labs site.  Most have about 600mg of CBD per gram of oil on avg. if I remember correct.

I get great results on anxiety with just 60-90mg(estimated, possibly less) of CBD from dry sift. 

The other thing about medibles is that you get the effects over a longer period of time, which may be better for certain ailments.  Smoking a hi CBD strain may help if a seizure is coming on as it would spike the levels in the system quicker for a shorter period of time than medibles.

The 3mg/kg may have been enough to put the dog out if it was THC.  That's 4 - 5x what I take at nite for medibles in THC.  8-10x what I would take for a daytime dose. If I took 200 mg at one time I'd definitely get sick or the spins.  I make 12 nite time capsules from 1 gram of kief which is about 80 mg of 50% thc material.  So 40mg is the nite time dose of a heavy smoker, according to my methods and 20mg would be my daytime dose of THC.  I smoke too but those dosages have done it when I was busy for the day and couldn't smoke.  Although I assume that would be a whole plant dosage of oil, not THC since it wasn't detected or isolated yet.  That also may have been for THC/CBD concentration that were less than today's levels and in different ratios.  Although they may have just got less oil per oz/plant material and it may have been the same levels.

Edited by Norby

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3 mg per kilo would mean that a 150 lb person would need roughly 68 mg per dose. Roughly 0.015 grams of hash oil (referred to as fluid extract in the pharmacy manuals). I believe the standard dispensary dose in edibles is 0.010.

 

Edit: I should add that they used a whole plant extract for medical use at that time. Most of the oil today is made by a quick wash method. When doing a whole extract the remaining plant material looks like sawdust, every compound in the plant is extracted and used including waxes, chlorophyll etc.

Edited by Wild Bill

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3 mg per kilo would mean that a 150 lb person would need roughly 68 mg per dose. Roughly 0.015 grams of hash oil (referred to as fluid extract in the pharmacy manuals). I believe the standard dispensary dose in edibles is 0.010.

 

Edit: I should add that they used a whole plant extract for medical use at that time. Most of the oil today is made by a quick wash method. When doing a whole extract the remaining plant material looks like sawdust, every compound in the plant is extracted and used including waxes, chlorophyll etc.

Actually, they measure in THC or CBD for dosage, so it's more than just 0.015 grams of hash oil.  It's roughly double that in hash oil since hash oil is generally 50-60%THC or CBD.  They have all different levels from 1-2mg THC or CBD up to 100+mg THC or CBD. 10-50mg for capsules and 100-250? for candy bars.

Edited by Norby

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i dont even remember what we were arguing.

 

the 3mg/kg thing is from 100 years ago, back when they had the ole ditchweed.

dont think they had purple haze, bubba kush, thai stick back then? who knows :D

 

heres the full study paper:

https://www.thcint.com/uploads/1/9/3/7/19371199/1980_clinical_trial_cannabis_and_seizures.pdf

 

The above data led us to undertake the present investigation whichwas performed in two phases. In phase 1, 3--6 mg / kg of CBD (roughlycorresponding to 200--400 mg / subject) was administered daily to healthyhuman volunteers for 30 days. In phase 2, patients suffering fromsecondary generalized epilepsy with temporal irritative activity received200--300 mg of the drug for periods of up to 4.5 months.

 

Cannabidiol, in crystalline from (m.p. 66--67) was isolated fromhashish of undetermined age. It was of Lebanese origin and was supplied bythe Israeli Police. The isolation procedure has been described (Gaoni andMechoulam, 1971). Part of the CBD was a gift from Makor Chemicals, P.O.B. 6570, Jerusalem

And since they only tried one dosage amount then how do we know that it's the amount everyone needs?

strawman argument. there is no doctor on earth that can tell you what amount of medication any patient will require, the best we have are estimations, lethal doses, adverse reactions, etc.

 

this was merely a study on 200-400mg of isolated cbd from hash and its reports on 8 epileptic patients. learn from it what you will.

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I've seen this before. will someone please instruct me in the ways to separate and isolate cbd from the concrete cannabis extraction?

help find it grassmatch... i'm looking.

 

Paper

119. Cannabis indica. Part II. Isolation of cannabidiol from Egyptian hashish. Observations on the structure of cannabinol

A. Jacob, (Miss) and

A. R. Todd

J. Chem. Soc., 1940, 649-653

 

DOI: 10.1039/JR9400000649

 

ADAMS, R.; PEASE, D. C.; CLARK, J. H.: Isolation of Cannabinol, Cannabidiol and Quebrachitol from Red Oil of Minnesota Wild Hemp, Journal of the American Chemical Society, Easton, U.S.A., 1940, 62, pages 2194-2196.

 

someone posted it 2 years ago on reddit but link is dead now

https://www.reddit.com/r/Scholar/comments/1eq2a4/request_cannabis_indica_part_ii_isolation_of/

 

can ask again on /r/scholar for it...

 

getting closer, heres 1942 patent on extracting cbd

https://thecannabus.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/2304669-isolation-of-cannabidiol-1942.pdf

 

structure of cbd

https://www.thevespiary.org/rhodium/Rhodium/Vespiary/talk/files/4335-adams47c8.pdf?topic=2421.0

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I have an idea ;

 

How about telling folks to start out with a dosage of say... the size of a half a grain of rice so everyone can understand it?

 

And... no, most folks cannot separate out just CBD. So you have to work with what you have. Alter it with heat or try different strains to see what works.

 

These studies are not very end user friendly. They don't give easy instructions. The 'guy on the internet' does a better job, believe it or not.

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This might come in handy;

 

Δ-9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC)
Boiling point:157*C / 314.6 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Euphoriant, Analgesic, Antiinflammatory, Antioxidant, Antiemetic

cannabidiol (CBD)
Boiling point: 160-180*C / 320-356 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Anxiolytic, Analgesic, Antipsychotic, Antiinflammatory, Antioxidant, Antispasmodic

Cannabinol (CBN)
Boiling point: 185*C / 365 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Oxidation, breakdown, product, Sedative, Antibiotic

cannabichromene (CBC)
Boiling point: 220*C / 428 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Antiinflammatory, Antibiotic, Antifungal

Δ-8-tetrahydrocannabinol (Δ-8-THC)
Boiling point: 175-178*C / 347-352.4 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Resembles Δ-9-THC, Less psychoactive, More stable Antiemetic

tetrahydrocannabivarin (THCV)
Boiling point: < 220*C / <428 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Analgesic, Euphoriant

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Back in the old days...........

 

One day we decided to make some marijuana brownies.

 

We cooked the heck out of them and no one got high.

 

We cooked the next batch a little less and some folks got a little high.

 

We cooked them longer at a low temp and everyone got high.

 

^^^^Food for thought ......

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More important food for thought:

 

I'm working with an IBS patient that the dosage of half a grain of rice was even too much. Start very small and work your way up. You could even try heating it to counter the effects of the THC if you have a very sensitive patient. Sensitive people can have a very uncomfortable experience with cannabis oil. Dosage is very important and varies greatly from patient to patient. 

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makes sense, a half grain of rice size bit will make me feel sick. made with no heat.

a bud in the percolator basket with cream and coffee makes me feel like a million bucks....cook it, cook it real good. :bbq:

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help find it grassmatch... i'm looking.

 

Paper

119. Cannabis indica. Part II. Isolation of cannabidiol from Egyptian hashish. Observations on the structure of cannabinol

A. Jacob, (Miss) and

A. R. Todd

J. Chem. Soc., 1940, 649-653

 

DOI: 10.1039/JR9400000649

 

ADAMS, R.; PEASE, D. C.; CLARK, J. H.: Isolation of Cannabinol, Cannabidiol and Quebrachitol from Red Oil of Minnesota Wild Hemp, Journal of the American Chemical Society, Easton, U.S.A., 1940, 62, pages 2194-2196.

 

someone posted it 2 years ago on reddit but link is dead now

https://www.reddit.com/r/Scholar/comments/1eq2a4/request_cannabis_indica_part_ii_isolation_of/

 

can ask again on /r/scholar for it...

 

getting closer, heres 1942 patent on extracting cbd

https://thecannabus.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/2304669-isolation-of-cannabidiol-1942.pdf

 

structure of cbd

https://www.thevespiary.org/rhodium/Rhodium/Vespiary/talk/files/4335-adams47c8.pdf?topic=2421.0

good info!.. I've seen this stuff done, or at least similar. boiling benzene aint for the squeamish or inexperienced. I was hoping for a cheat actually. heating/vaporizing was the only option I was ware of. thank you for those links

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