Jesus Christ Orders The Use Of Marijuana For The Suffering.

[FootFungus]

Great thread, so many different views being discussed without the "your wrong, your an idiot" spiral that I've seen other similar threads elsewhere take. This community rocks!

 

Christians will readily tell you that we are not able to grasp or understand God's will or plan with our limited human intelligence... if this is the case, this was either: 1)done intentionally by a very cruel and mischievous God that is not all-loving or 2)proof that God is not all-powerful (as being all-powerful by definition means God made the entire universe and every aspect of it exactly the way he wanted it to be, and chose to make man flawed despite claiming we are made in his image). Take your pick.

 

I don't agree that those are the only 2 choices. I subscribe to option 3: Free Will.

 

Basically, I believe the fact that we are not able to "grasp or understand God's will or plan with our limited human intelligence" is completely intentional. Consider this: If man had full understanding of God; what God is, does, etc., there really wouldn't be any "choice" involved in life, everyone would see the truth and follow God without question, there really is no free will in that.

 

If I offer you two identical boxes and tell you one has a million dollars in it, pick one blindly, people will pick either one. Now if I let people look in the box before they pick, everyone will always pick the box with money, no one in their right mind would pick an empty box over a full one. I believe God created man with enough of a lack of understanding so both sides could make sense. Free will is only really free if more than one option is viable.

 

We could easily have all been made robots without choice, following God blindly and no one would have ever known the difference, but God wanted every person to be able to decide for themselves. Looking at that through our understanding seems cruel given the outcome of the choice, but our understanding is very limited, and that is intentional.

[MightyMightyMezz]

Great thread, so many different views being discussed without the "your wrong, your an idiot" spiral that I've seen other similar threads elsewhere take. This community rocks!

 

 

 

I don't agree that those are the only 2 choices. I subscribe to option 3: Free Will.

 

Basically, I believe the fact that we are not able to "grasp or understand God's will or plan with our limited human intelligence" is completely intentional. Consider this: If man had full understanding of God; what God is, does, etc., there really wouldn't be any "choice" involved in life, everyone would see the truth and follow God without question, there really is no free will in that.

 

If I offer you two identical boxes and tell you one has a million dollars in it, pick one blindly, people will pick either one. Now if I let people look in the box before they pick, everyone will always pick the box with money, no one in their right mind would pick an empty box over a full one. I believe God created man with enough of a lack of understanding so both sides could make sense. Free will is only really free if more than one option is viable.

 

We could easily have all been made robots without choice, following God blindly and no one would have ever known the difference, but God wanted every person to be able to decide for themselves. Looking at that through our understanding seems cruel given the outcome of the choice, but our understanding is very limited, and that is intentional.

 

 

I think our capacity for intelligence is virtually unlimited. We are gods ourselves and don't even know it. I can see no reason to think that if we fulfilled our potential our free will would be diminished. It is convenient for those who wish to control humanity that the Bible is far from enlightening when it comes to understanding the universe.

[MI Compassion]

Great thread, so many different views being discussed without the "your wrong, your an idiot" spiral that I've seen other similar threads elsewhere take. This community rocks!

 

I don't agree that those are the only 2 choices. I subscribe to option 3: Free Will.

 

Basically, I believe the fact that we are not able to "grasp or understand God's will or plan with our limited human intelligence" is completely intentional. Consider this: If man had full understanding of God; what God is, does, etc., there really wouldn't be any "choice" involved in life, everyone would see the truth and follow God without question, there really is no free will in that.

 

If I offer you two identical boxes and tell you one has a million dollars in it, pick one blindly, people will pick either one. Now if I let people look in the box before they pick, everyone will always pick the box with money, no one in their right mind would pick an empty box over a full one. I believe God created man with enough of a lack of understanding so both sides could make sense. Free will is only really free if more than one option is viable.

 

We could easily have all been made robots without choice, following God blindly and no one would have ever known the difference, but God wanted every person to be able to decide for themselves. Looking at that through our understanding seems cruel given the outcome of the choice, but our understanding is very limited, and that is intentional.

 

The problem with the idea of "free will" that apologists fall back far too often is that the bible is not compatible with a concept of "free will". If you believe what the bible teaches you will know God is omniscient (all-knowing of everything in the universe), omnibenevolent (all-loving and morally good in every way), omnipresent (present in all places, at all times - past, present, and future).

 

If these things are true (as the bible claims) then God knew before he ever created mankind that man would eat from the Tree of Knowledge in the Garden of Eden, and for hundreds of thousands of years be left without any hope for salvation. How can a being of pure love and moral good even create mankind knowing that countless generations of human civilization would be damned to eternity in hell?!? Or would you suggest the bible is lying about God's omniscience and omnipresence? There lies one of the fatal flaws... The idea of an all-loving God is proven wrong by a God that knowingly created man, then the tree of knowledge, and that by doing so he know he would be damning countless of generations to eternity in hell. God, being all powerful, could have created any universe he desired, and could have chosen to create mankind in his image in every way including intellect, but choose to otherwise create a universe where mankind is forever doomed to death, destruction, war, sickness, hunger, poverty, disease, and greed? I don't buy it.

 

Another glaring hole in Christianity is the presence of Ancient Egyptian remains and delicate artifacts that have been found sealed in underground tombs dating back many thousands of years before the time of Noah. Would you suggest that somehow the many tombs in Egypt that pre-date the time of Noah where able to magically sustain the entire weight of all the world's oceans during the worldwide flood and not let as much as a drop of water into the tombs (that would have raised the humidity levels to high enough levels to destroy the artifacts that are so delicate they must be kept in pressurized vaults in museums

to prevent oxygen from coming into contact with them)?

 

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" - Carl Sagan

 

Also why is it taught in most Christian churches that the 600+ Old Testament laws should be ignored when Jesus himself taught that the Old Testament is to be abided by until the end of human existence itself?

 

(Matthew 5:18-19) - “For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”

 

Other relevant verses

 

"It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17)

 

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place." (Matthew 5:17)

 

"All scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching, for refutation, for correction, and for training in righteousness..." (2 Timothy 3:16)

 

"Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation, for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God." (2 Peter 20-21)

 

“Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law" (John7:19)

 

“For the law was given by Moses,..." (John 1:17).

 

“...the scripture cannot be broken.” --Jesus Christ, John 10:35

[MightyMightyMezz]

I'm pretty sure there is evidence for a Great Flood, MI Compassion. Sea fossils on high cliffs? The pyramids were probably built later.

[peanutbutter]

Odd thing.

 

Peter is recorded as having walked on water also. He did so because he trusted the person that told him to try it.

 

Peter (100% human being) did the remarkable thing and stepped over the edge of the boat.

 

Peter showed his "faith" to those that were there to see.

 

paraphrase:

 

"Talk about your faith and I'll SHOW you mine.

What good does it do to say to the poor 'have a lot of food' and then walk away.

Don't talk about it .. SHOW me."

 

What mountain have you pushed on lately? When did you get wet because you tried to walk on water? SHOW ME the RESULTS of what you define as "faith."

 

Because faith that doesn't work is dead.

[MI Compassion]

I'm pretty sure there is evidence for a Great Flood, MI Compassion. Sea fossils on high cliffs? The pyramids were probably built later.

 

If you understand how mountains are created you'll understand how it's natural to have fossils on mountain tops, as plates collide it pushes the earth up, and fossils that where once below sea level can make their way to the tops of even the tallest mountains.

 

http://carumbasblog.blogspot.com/2009/02/marine-fossils-on-mountains-do-not.html

 

We have ruins all over the world that scientific community has dated long before the timeline laid out in the bible for the teleology from Adam to Noah by many thousands of years which have produced very delicate artifacts that would not possibly have survived a global flood. Perhaps the entire scientific community is conspiring together to try to disprove organized religion? It surely must be a big anti-Christian conspiracy.

 

But I suggest that the burden of proof be put on the makers of the great claims, not on the skeptics that seek real answers to real questions and dare to seek truth rather than be lead blindly by others. It's not up to me to disprove the bible, but rather the believer's burden of proof to show me that what the bible says is true. My heart and mind is open to the truth, and God knows this, if he wants me to know I am wrong then he will show me the error in my ways.

[peanutbutter]

If you understand how mountains are created you'll understand how it's natural to have fossils on mountain tops, as plates collide it pushes the earth up, and fossils that where once below sea level can make their way to the tops of even the tallest mountains.

 

http://carumbasblog.blogspot.com/2009/02/marine-fossils-on-mountains-do-not.html

 

We have ruins all over the world that scientific community has dated long before the timeline laid out in the bible for the teleology from Adam to Noah by many thousands of years which have produced very delicate artifacts that would not possibly have survived a global flood. Perhaps the entire scientific community is conspiring together to try to disprove organized religion? It surely must be a big anti-Christian conspiracy.

 

But I suggest that the burden of proof be put on the makers of the great claims, not on the skeptics that seek real answers to real questions and dare to seek truth rather than be lead blindly by others. It's not up to me to disprove the bible, but rather the believer's burden of proof to show me that what the bible says is true. My heart and mind is open to the truth, and God knows this, if he wants me to know I am wrong then he will show me the error in my ways.

 

Yep .. conventional time lines listed by "creationists" are way off. Caused by the mistranslation of one single word in the second verse of the Bible.

 

Gen 1:2 should read "And the world became without form and void." Things were there before it became that way.

[MightyMightyMezz]

If you understand how mountains are created you'll understand how it's natural to have fossils on mountain tops, as plates collide it pushes the earth up, and fossils that where once below sea level can make their way to the tops of even the tallest mountains.

 

 

True, but the Yonaguni Monument is under five meters of ocean, so it would seem to have been made at a time when the ocean was lower.

 

[DT61]

Galatians 3 (New King James Version)

 

Galatians 3

 

Justification by Faith

¹ O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth,^[a] before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you^[b] as crucified? ² This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? ³ Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? ⁴ Have you suffered so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain?

⁵ Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?— ⁶ just as Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”^[c]7 Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. ⁸ And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.”^[d]9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.

The Law Brings a Curse

 

¹⁰ For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.”^[e]11 But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.”^[f]12 Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.”^[g]

¹³ Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”^[h]), ¹⁴ that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

The Changeless Promise

 

¹⁵ Brethren, I speak in the manner of men: Though it is only a man’s covenant, yet if it is confirmed, no one annuls or adds to it. ¹⁶ Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed,”^[i]who is Christ. ¹⁷ And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ,^[j] that it should make the promise of no effect. ¹⁸ For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

Purpose of the Law

 

¹⁹ What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. ²⁰ Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one.

²¹Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. ²² But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. ²³ But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. ²⁴ Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. ²⁵ But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

Sons and Heirs

 

²⁶ For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. ²⁷ For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. ²⁸ There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. ²⁹ And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 

 

YEP - burden of proof lies with the creationists (I am one of them) - but again, faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things unseen.

Can you please tell me how to "create" a mountain from nothing?

There are theories as to how these things have happened and what has transpired over time, IMHO, mine is as valid as any since the lack of evidence is on both sides, and I intend absolutely no animosity.

[peanutbutter]

My mountain to push is called "the marijuana laws of the united states."

 

God and I made a majority in every situation.

 

It will and has been moving.

[DT61]

I join in your effort - although you and HE make a majority.

[peanutbutter]

I join in your effort - although you and HE make a majority.

 

When two are joined in agreement, the impact is multiplied. Not added, multiplied.

 

Add a third and it kicks into overdrive.

 

In the name of Jesus Christ. Amen.

 

Shoes on .. check

bags packed .. check

Eat a good meal for the road .. check

 

Set my people free.

[DT61]

and Amen.

[FootFungus]

Yep .. conventional time lines listed by "creationists" are way off. Caused by the mistranslation of one single word in the second verse of the Bible.

 

Gen 1:2 should read "And the world became without form and void." Things were there before it became that way.

 

Yeah there is definitely references to things being on the earth before Adam. Adam was simply the first being created "in God's image." Adam is also ordered to "be fruitful, multiply and replenish the earth." You can't replenish something by putting it there for the first time. Also, many people misunderstand the 6-8,000 Biblical timeline. That is only the timeline since the fall, there is no record of how long Adam and Eve lived in the garden before then. 2 billion years? 5 weeks? No way to say.

 

Then there is the land of Nod, where Cain goes and gets a wife, populated by someone obviously. The Bible doesn't say the earth is the same age as mankind.

 

One of the best ones is Genesis 6:1-4.

 

2That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

 

4There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

 

That is some crazy stuff right there, giants, sons of God mixing with daughters of men, mighty men of legend...

 

Obviously Adam and Eve were not the first things here.

[Wayne'sWorld]

So just have to ask. Are all the prohibitionist's citing Christian teachings/values to stand against cannabis truly Christian's? How do you know if they are representing Jesus Christ's teachings, or not, for certain? Is one Christian right and the other wrong? Which version of the Bible is everyone, reformer or prohibitionist, referring too?

[peanutbutter]

So just have to ask. Are all the prohibitionist's citing Christian teachings/values to stand against cannabis truly Christian's? How do you know if they are representing Jesus Christ's teachings, or not, for certain? Is one Christian right and the other wrong?

 

You judge dead faith by the results.

 

Does it produce results? What are the qualities of the results?

 

A system that forces suffering and death is not held in place by the Father of Jesus Christ.

[peanutbutter]

Matthew 17:19-20 "Then the disciples came to Jesus privately and said, 'Why could we not cast it out?' He said to them, 'Because of your little faith. For truly I tell you, if you have faith the size of a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible for you."

 

Luke 17:5-6 "The apostles said to the Lord, 'Increase our faith!' The Lord replied. 'If you had faith the size of a mustard seed, you could say to this mulberry tree, 'Be uprooted and planted in the sea,' and it would obey you.'"

 

That's what I'm talkin' about!!

[peanutbutter]

So did God inspire or does God infuse?

 

Don't know .. don't care.

 

I wake up in the morning wondering who will be the next person that the doctors have given up on.

 

What is the next condition that they have no answers for at all?

 

NEXT!!

 

A unstoppable wall of healing. Heading toward a mountain that needs to move.

[MightyMightyMezz]

I don't have much time for belief, let alone faith. I understand how to use belief as a tool, but as a way of life it can only imprison the mind. With all of reality available for us to explore why should we have faith in an admittedly backwards book? "Don't use the oil or be cut off from your people (sent to prison.)"

[brbud]

Faith Love Charity... Lord fill my heart with these. there never seems to be enough in the world.

[greenbuddha]

The will, motivation and energy to change harmful and inhumane laws comes from many sources.

 

People have the right to find their 'own' source for the energy that helps them make changes to the world around them, call that source the 'Absolute', God, Nature, the 'Unknown' or just 'self determination'.

 

The changing of inhumane laws is what is important... and keeping the 'laws' in place that are 'good' laws, laws that allow people to make their own choices regarding their health, their bodies and their beliefs, as our MM Act does here and similar laws that have been passed in other states as well.

 

My beliefs are no better than anyone else's, but no one else's beliefs are any better than mine.

 

Moving forward is what counts. How we find the energy to help in that effort is up to each individual... and may we all find that energy.

 

My dimes worth. (inflation)

[Wayne'sWorld]

Crusades, Inquisitions, Witches, all in the name of the Lord, that's what I'm talking about! Is organized religion different than Christianity? Should not faith heal all? So it is my doctor who has my life in his hands, not an Almighty God? Makes sense!

[greenbuddha]

You are correct Marijuana is 100% Kosher.

 

The Israeli government very recently began to allow the use of cannabis for pain relief both privately in a person's home AND within their hospitals.

 

Perhaps everything old does become new again?

[Wayne'sWorld]

"People have the right to find their 'own' source for the energy that helps them make changes to the world around them, call that source the 'Absolute', God, Nature, the 'Unknown' or just 'self determination'."

 

Can't imagine Adolf Hitler putting it better myself. Good & Evil? Who decides?

[brbud]

"People have the right to find their 'own' source for the energy that helps them make changes to the world around them, call that source the 'Absolute', God, Nature, the 'Unknown' or just 'self determination'."

 

Can't imagine Adolf Hitler putting it better myself. Good & Evil? Who decides?

God gotta good sence o humer. might a had a hand in ur username...just sayin jk

dont give up on God He aint given up on you.

Peace