The Retail Grow Store And Indoor-grow Manufacturer Enrichment Act

[pic book]

If the indoor grow (and especially hydro industry) had a lobby and got fully favororable laws passsed for their economic future to be assured, they could not do bettter than state laws requiring "locked and enclosed" mmj grows.

 

70% of grows are in basements, where growers recreate the sun and temp and nutrients and humidity and wind of the outdoors, under which trees and ag crops world-wide, grow. Totally inefficient and max expensive hi-tech measures that no other forms of ag use--they are too costly per unit yielded--complain about hi prices per ounce? This--locked and enclosed--is the culprit. Its face is hydro, soil-less, Baadasss ballasts, bat-wing reflectors and bulbs designed to mimic the beneficial spectrum light of the sun.

 

Banananas 59 cents per pound??????? Weed $2140 per pound? And this is efficient use of resources? This is eco friendly???? Coal fuels DTE. Ain't that grand?

 

When the Mexican cartels turn to hydro--in place of CA forests--you will know it has become economically sensible to grow indooors. 'Til then, Badasses on ballasts, and badasss prices, will prevail.

 

Ain't that a medical miracle?

Edited August 7, 2012 by pic book

[t-pain]

kind of funny the plants have to be in a closed and locked facility, but the usable medicine does not...

[Highlander]

This is a nice thought, but my own experience as a CG tells me that if patients are given the choice between outdoor-grown meds and meds grown carefully in a controlled environment indoors, they find indoor-grown meds much more desirable and are willing to pay the difference.

[imiubu]

This is a nice thought, but my own experience as a CG tells me that if patients are given the choice between outdoor-grown meds and meds grown carefully in a controlled environment indoors, they find indoor-grown meds much more desirable and are willing to pay the difference.

 

interesting.

if there were no restrictions as to locked, enclosed

and you could tend your medicine in your own yard,

 

not the gorilla style we've been forced into, but a beautiful

garden under real sunlight ..

 

i would find that preferable

 

we still live in a capitolistic society instead of a resource based society

so,

i don't see it happening until gold and paper no longer are the rule

 

jmo2

[Letterhead954]

Interesting post, and a good point.

[Northern Lab]

I thought the supreme court just defined what was a legal outdoor grow.

 

My understanding is that as long as it is covered on all 6 dimensions (top, bottom, 4 sides), anchored to the ground, and locked it is a legal grow. I know lots of folks growing in greenhouses this summer specifically because of that ruling.

 

A fence dog kennel with a fence top, staked to the ground and locked meets the standard, IMO. Someone please correct me if this is not the case.

[cristinew]

Just make sure the Meds are done by early stept.. less chance of mold to set in and ruin the whole crop..

[Petyr]

I thought the supreme court just defined what was a legal outdoor grow.

 

My understanding is that as long as it is covered on all 6 dimensions (top, bottom, 4 sides), anchored to the ground, and locked it is a legal grow. I know lots of folks growing in greenhouses this summer specifically because of that ruling.

 

A fence dog kennel with a fence top, staked to the ground and locked meets the standard, IMO. Someone please correct me if this is not the case.

 

That bit is from one of the bills that passed the house but is waiting for the senate. The SC hasn't ruled on anything about this.

[Northern Lab]

That bit is from one of the bills that passed the house but is waiting for the senate. The SC hasn't ruled on anything about this.

 

Yes, they have:

 

http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2012/06/01/mich-supreme-court-makes-1st-medical-pot-rulings/

 

Sounds to me like outdoor grows are legal, if they're in a secure, locked facility.

[MightyMightyMezz]

I'm sure as it becomes more normal more people in the program will grow outdoors. It's still pretty scary for most people. It's not just overzealous police we have to worry about, it's ripoffs too.

 

The true value of medical buds in a world without Prohibition is probably about $200/lb with labor factored in. At that price it wouldn't make financial sense to grow under lights. The only reason it is worth so much now is that the penalties are so severe.

 

What is really interesting is that Prohibition has an unintended consequence of extreme development of horticultural science (think NASA has an eye on the hydroponic growing world?) The genetics of the plant itself have been developed to an astounding degree thanks to the market forces of Prohibition! You can't keep a good plant down?

Edited August 7, 2012 by MightyMightyMezz

[Northern Lab]

There's still time to get that outdoor facility up and going! Don't wait!

[rockinsteady]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Mich Med MJ act states in section 4 that a registered patient or his caregiver must keep the 12 plants in secure locked facility. But, if you are without a Med MJ card (not a registered patient) and are using the "affirmative defense" in sec 8, then you don't need a secure locked facility (and you have no clear weight limit or number of plants: just that the it is only enough to secure a continuous supply of meds).

 

But, Sec 8 requires that you have a closer relationship with your doctor (a bona fide physician-patient relationship) than in sec 4. So, if you are growing outdoors with Sec 8 to protect you, make sure you and your doctor meet the higher standard of sec 8.

[Highlander]

Yes the MI supreme court ruled that you don't have to comply with Section 4 (i.e. locked facility) to use the Section 8 defense.

 

But if you have a pattern of use of 1 oz per month and you have 12 plants outdoors with a pound of bud on each one, when it comes time to dry/store all that, you'll have a hard time convincing a jury that you needed 12 pounds of MMJ. So people need to be prepared for that one too.

[SFC]

Imiubu is kind of right. If you didn't have to grow guerrilla style and could really tend to outdoor plants you can grow a superior med. But and it is a big but, you run the risk of dozens of extra potential problems thus making it still much more problematic than staying indoors.

[rockinsteady]

Yes the MI supreme court ruled that you don't have to comply with Section 4 (i.e. locked facility) to use the Section 8 defense.

 

But if you have a pattern of use of 1 oz per month and you have 12 plants outdoors with a pound of bud on each one, when it comes time to dry/store all that, you'll have a hard time convincing a jury that you needed 12 pounds of MMJ. So people need to be prepared for that one too.

 

If a patient were only growing outdoors and had no indoor grow capability, he could argue that this year's fall outdoor harvest has to be large enough to cover his needs until next fall harvest. This argument could be used to explain why more than one huge outdoor plant is needed: to insure that at least one good plant can be harvested, and didn't get destroyed by deer or hail, for instance.

[Petyr]

Yes, they have:

 

http://detroit.cbslo...al-pot-rulings/

 

Sounds to me like outdoor grows are legal, if they're in a secure, locked facility.

 

Doesn't that just say that he can go to trial and try to convince the jury that his grow was in a secured, locked facility? I wouldn't recommend anyone set up an outdoor grow yet, unless you can afford the attorney fees.

[Highlander]

If a patient were only growing outdoors and had no indoor grow capability, he could argue that this year's fall outdoor harvest has to be large enough to cover his needs until next fall harvest. This argument could be used to explain why more than one huge outdoor plant is needed: to insure that at least one good plant can be harvested, and didn't get destroyed by deer or hail, for instance.

 

Yes I agree and would hope the courts give such a patient proper consideration, but I was more referring to the patient who might grow 12 pounds and then be faced with trying to explain to a jury why he needs 12 years worth of meds on hand.

[SFC]

Would the courts find it an amount reasonably necessary to maintain a consistant supply (outdoors) and how much money do you suppose that case will cost to defend?

[shishka]

Better to have too much than too little as far as the patient is concerned. If we're talking sec 8 here that is.

[Willy]

and another how to cheat the system post.. give it up..follow the law as written, quite adding and taking from it.. remember our legislatures are busy tryin to do just that, don't help them!!

[imiubu]

Imiubu is kind of right. If you didn't have to grow guerrilla style and could really tend to outdoor plants you can grow a superior med. But and it is a big but, you run the risk of dozens of extra potential problems thus making it still much more problematic than staying indoors.

 

I totally disagree. There will still be pest issues, mold, powdery mildew, etc, etc... sure.

I believe is much easier contain in an open outdoor environment as opposed

to trying to recreate a natural environment in dank basement grows.

 

We deal with all these same issues growing anything outdoors, say.. a veggie garden ?

Why do you believe that Cannabis could not be the same ?

 

Prohibition removed, even 'rippers' would become a very minor issue.

 

m02

[SFC]

You said it! Rippers being second only to LEO. Like I said, if you could safely do it you can grow superior meds. Another quick note is you need to pick strains that are 100% by the 1st week of October. After that we are on borrowed time and the plants are shutting down. In your haste to disagree with me you are overlooking the fact that I am in basic agreement.

[imiubu]

okay, sfc.. you are right.

[pic book]

To state my OP concern in another way, how do patients and CGs get the cost of meds down to affordable? Is $2200 a pound ---(or $40 an 1/8)--reasonable and necessary in a day of bananas 59 cents per pound? And who cannot afford meds? Lots of folks? Or only most of the 99%? Anybody agree the number is way too many patients for society's good? And can they be made on a price par with bananas, indoors? (Or corn or soybeans or grapes or carrots?) Or any other way, except by a take-over of the market by too-big pharma? (in that case, when the patents expire in 18 years, say 2030), generics will be avalable for your children? Is the present system--and outragous prices-- sustainable? Indoors or outdoors?

Edited August 8, 2012 by pic book

[SFC]

If the price drops too low Picbook people will stop growing and stop caring about growing a high quality product. There is a choke point at both ends of the spectrum, where is the medium?