Live In Seattle Want To Buy A House In Michigan And Become A Caregiver

[Mr. Diamond]

I'm looking at moving to Michigan when the winter is over. I work for a medical marijuana magazine here in Seattle but I'm thinking of starting my own and doing it in Michigan. At the same time I have an excellent green thumb and would love to help patients grow the best medicine possible.

 

I have no clue where to get started and I don't want to move if I'm not guaranteed a job to cover my bills. It looks like I could care for 5 people there and they can pay me to do so? Could I instead go to 100 patients homes and help them with their OWN garden. I wouldn't even want 5 patients plants in my home. That sounds like someone asking to get robbed.

 

Please give me any advice.

 

Mr. Diamond.

[Kingdiamond]

By law you cannot help that many patients only those connected to you via the medical marijuana registry(5 total) if your coming out here to get rich forget about it ive been growing for 3 years and barely make ends meet.

[Mr. Diamond]

No, definitely not to get rich. Just looking for an opportunity to survive. I am confused on the 5 person rule. We have a one person rule here in Seattle ... or Washington in general. You can only be a Caregiver for one other person besides yourself in my state. Three people max can live in a dwelling and grow together. So each person can have 15 plants coming out to 45 together as a Co-Op. Co-Op's usually supply the dispensaries. The dispensaries are often part of a Co-Op.

 

But in my state I can have a job of going to other people's homes and helping them manage their own gardens. I can help 20,000 patients if I want. I'm not doing the work. I'm coming in and consulting. Weekly/monthly. Whatever the client needs. I don't want to grow and trim bunch of medication or manage all that. I just want to help people with advice. So many people have no clue what they are doing. If they had a personal counselor/advisor/consultant that came in occasionally and gave advice ... does that still fall under the 5 person rule? Just curious. Because that's kind of a loophole for me over here. But I want to move there so I can actually own my own home.

 

I am currently a consultant already, and I work for one of the local medical magazines ... which they are talking about having me bring over there. So I just want to continue what I'm doing and follow the movement.

 

Eventually it will be legal and I will get a job working for some Canna Corporation I'm sure ... or start my own. lol We might be legal in 2 weeks ... completely legal for adults. Until then ... I'm a legal patient with a healthy amount of botany knowledge and a fascination for the medication. I went to college and worked in advertising for the newspaper industry for years. This has been a nice change in industry.

 

Mr. Diamond

[LansingAreaCaregiver]

The law here is currently not that well defined. The current understanding is that patient to patient sales of marijuana are prohibited unless the two are connected through an officially registered patient caregiver relationship. That case, however, has just been through oral arguments in the state Supreme Court. They haven't ruled yet, so we're all kind of waiting anxiously at this point. Do some reading on this site about the McQueen case. I would say it is not at all clear how the court might be leaning. They have recently overturned some unfavorable court of appeals rulings, so that shows (to me at least) that they aren't outright hostile to the law.

 

That being said, there are still many dispensaries, farmer's markets, etc that are still in operation at this point. I wouldn't want to risk it right now, but they are there. My advice, wait until McQueen is decided. It shouldn't be long now.

[Celliach]

As far as I know there aren't any "consultants" in Michigan. Nobody charges anyone that I know of for helping them get started. In my area there is a club that helps people get started for free. As far as I can see, free is the standard price in Michigan for helping someone get started.

[+washtenaut]

I believe that there is Michigan law stating that only the patient or the patient's caregiver can ever go into the medical cannabis grow room.

 

To gain access to the grow room of another person in Michigan, a consultant would need to register as the caregiver for that person. A caregiver can only have 5 patients so it seems to me that currently a consultant would not legally be able to enter the grow room of more than his 5 associated patients.

[Restorium2]

Seriously, who wants a newbie stranger getting into 100 patients grows anyway? That's what sounds like a recipe for getting robbed. Are you really a cannabis magazine consultant without a clue?

[Highlander]

Mr Diamond, there really isn't a market for your service in Michigan. There are people who need this service, but there is no need for them to pay. If you ask around, you'll find that a lot of grow stores will look at your grow space and lay out what you need, and help you install it. They will do this for free. As one store owner told me, "If my customers are successful, I'm successful, so I'm willing to help them get set up and make sure they keep things running right."

 

And as Celiach pointed out, compassion clubs are also a good source for free help.

Edited October 27, 2012 by Highlander

[t-pain]

you should check the number of dispensaries before you move.

you might find it smaller than what you find in wash/oregon/california.

seen a lot of people offering delivery service. that sounds like a real safe job. carrying lots of cash and lots of marijuana going door to door haha.

 

there are a few medical marijuana papers and magazines here already.

midwest cultivator - http://themidwestcultivator.com/

culture mag - http://ireadculture.com/

metrotimes chronicle - http://metrotimes.com/mmj

michigan medical marijuana magazine - http://4mmagazine.com/

probably some more that i havent seen locally.

 

the problem is that theres been a crackdown on dispensaries and co-ops and such.

because of that, the advertising dollars are down, due to no dispensaries being around to advertise.

 

we're awaiting the mich supreme court case people vs mcqueen to tell us if co-ops are legal.

Edited October 27, 2012 by t-pain

[pic book]

mr diamond

is it true good oz from growers is $110 in seattle area?

[Mr. Diamond]

First off, thank you all for your input.

 

That is interesting to hear about the ability to walk into another persons grow when I am a patient myself. I'm just learning Michigans rules and watching them change rapidly. Yes I work for a medical marijuana magazine here in Seattle. Culture magazine is our largest competitor. We want to expand to Michigan, largely in part to their success there so far. Our profit model is changing and is much different than Cultures. We are confident our publication will be well accepted. We are number one in Seattle. (Now you know where I work. lol)

 

I'm no stranger.

 

I will be teaching classes at Med Grow Cannabis College when I move there. I grew up with the owner Steve. Along with working for the magazine. It may not be a big industry there yet. But next week we might completely legalize it. It's more than medicine here. It's big business. And it's jobs Detroit desperately needs.

 

Growers buy equipment, dirt, seeds, LOTS of power, rent, transportation costs etc. and some even pay taxes like they do here in Seattle.

 

That equals Jobs.

For power companies and city government. Seattle sees it just like Alcohol and Tobacco. It's ridiculous it's illegal AT ALL ... for adults.

There are tons of deaths from WINE. How many from herb?

 

Cannabis is good. It helps many of my ailments and for some people ... it just makes them happier. If something makes you happy and it's not affecting others ... that should be your choice.

 

......................And no, you can't get a good OZ for $110. I buy from dispensaries and grow my own. We have ONLY the BEST here in Washington state. If you buy 4 oz's you might get it for $200 each. But when it's legalized the state has promised to tax the crap out of it and make it more expensive ... while at the same time increasing efforts to target abusers of the system ... such as drug traffickers to other states. You coould get some pretty good stuff for $110 in California if you wait until the end of harvest season ... but it will be last years that never made it to a dispensary or the dispensary didn't want it.

 

But it's cheap. Have fun trying to get it back to Michigan. lol That's prison time. I'm all about following state law.

 

Mr. Diamond

[Restorium2]

First off, thank you all for your input.

 

That is interesting to hear about the ability to walk into another persons grow when I am a patient myself. I'm just learning Michigans rules and watching them change rapidly. Yes I work for a medical marijuana magazine here in Seattle. Culture magazine is our largest competitor. We want to expand to Michigan, largely in part to their success there so far. Our profit model is changing and is much different than Cultures. We are confident our publication will be well accepted. We are number one in Seattle. (Now you know where I work. lol)

 

I'm no stranger.

 

I will be teaching classes at Med Grow Cannabis College when I move there. I grew up with the owner Steve. Along with working for the magazine. It may not be a big industry there yet. But next week we might completely legalize it. It's more than medicine here. It's big business. And it's jobs Detroit desperately needs.

 

Growers buy equipment, dirt, seeds, LOTS of power, rent, transportation costs etc. and some even pay taxes like they do here in Seattle.

 

That equals Jobs.

For power companies and city government. Seattle sees it just like Alcohol and Tobacco. It's ridiculous it's illegal AT ALL ... for adults.

There are tons of deaths from WINE. How many from herb?

 

Cannabis is good. It helps many of my ailments and for some people ... it just makes them happier. If something makes you happy and it's not affecting others ... that should be your choice.

 

......................And no, you can't get a good OZ for $110. I buy from dispensaries and grow my own. We have ONLY the BEST here in Washington state. If you buy 4 oz's you might get it for $200 each. But when it's legalized the state has promised to tax the crap out of it and make it more expensive ... while at the same time increasing efforts to target abusers of the system ... such as drug traffickers to other states. You coould get some pretty good stuff for $110 in California if you wait until the end of harvest season ... but it will be last years that never made it to a dispensary or the dispensary didn't want it.

 

But it's cheap. Have fun trying to get it back to Michigan. lol That's prison time. I'm all about following state law.

 

Mr. Diamond

Any interesting new cannabis legislation in the works, there in Washington, on the medical side of cannabis? Have you seen the wording 'pharmaceutical grade' in any new bill wording? I bet we have the same wolves at the door. Do you have lab interests bashing the untested cannabis so they can make testing manditory? Are the dispensaries open to every grower to offset their grow costs or are they 'clicky' and monopolized?

[Bison]

I wouldn't leave Washington at this point in time as it is much safer out there. Sounds like you have some network support out here, though, which will help. As far as not letting others into your grow, where in the law does it state this? Enclosed and locked facility is in there explicitly, but this seems more of an interpretation, not letter of the law. Was this defined in a supreme court case, and which one? You could consult out here for plant numbers, I offer a split in numbers for advice and tutoring.

 

Good luck and welcome should you decide to come out here!

[t-pain]

But it's cheap. Have fun trying to get it back to Michigan. lol That's prison time. I'm all about following state law.

 

i'm guessing he asked the price, not for trafficking, but to see if a more lax cannabis environment, with outdoor growing, would lower the price of his medicine. here in michigan is near $200-$300 an oz.

 

i think the reason we're seeing people want to move here is because there are lots of jobs and lots of money to be made on the medical side. but if they legalize it, all of that consulting money will go ... up in smoke.

 

the 'no one allowed in your grow' stems from a COA case. back when the CoA was making up bunny muffin rulings and opinions, before the MSC straightened them out. i dont remember the case off hand, ill try to dig it up.

[sourpatchez]

yeah stay where you are! even if u got the quality meds nobody ever has any money around here to buy it! ha

[shishka]

snipped...

 

the problem is that theres been a crackdown on dispensaries and co-ops and such.

because of that, the advertising dollars are down, due to no dispensaries being around to advertise.

 

 

 

Where has this crackdown been taking place? I can drive to at least 20 dispensaries in 30 minutes. Seems like another one opens every week or two.

 

 

And thank you Mr. Diamond for correcting pic book that there are no magic 100 dollar medical grade ounces.

[cristinew]

one busted in my neighborhood and now they are looking at big trouble,,

 

,http://michiganmedicalmarijuana.org/topic/41419-chippewa-420-club-owner-arrested/page__fromsearch__1

[t-pain]

Where has this crackdown been taking place? I can drive to at least 20 dispensaries in 30 minutes. Seems like another one opens every week or two.

 

hmm, still seems like the 3 or 4 around me that there ever was.

maybe there isnt a crackdown, just people talking about it.

mcqueen was a co-op that was raided and currently in the mich supreme court..

 

what dispensary would you rate highest? its hard to find genuine reviews on weedmaps.

[shishka]

hmm, still seems like the 3 or 4 around me that there ever was.

maybe there isnt a crackdown, just people talking about it.

mcqueen was a co-op that was raided and currently in the mich supreme court..

 

what dispensary would you rate highest? its hard to find genuine reviews on weedmaps.

 

I couldn't tell you that cause I don't participate. However, between Jackson and Washtenaw county there are a bunch and it seems no prosecutor is doing anything until the SC hashes it out.

 

I would(if I was a buyer)hit the farmers markets. Much better prices, and no sub par Cali outdoor, not saying Cali OD is sub par, just what makes it to MI dispensaries.

[Kingdiamond]

mr diamond

is it true good oz from growers is $110 in seattle area?

 

I saw signs on the side of the road in Colorado hawking ozs for $160 on 60 minutes last week.

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gj8TTx3pGxg

[cristinew]

160 is a fair price

[Restorium2]

160 is a fair price

For outdoor grown illegally, that would be fair. If you are stuck with 12 under the lights, then you can't do the high volume, cost lowering, measures. Some medical strains only produce an ounce or two a plant. You can't expect someone to grow for 3 months and only get a small bag from a plant and sell it for $160. That's just stupid or very charitable. Many will lump even the small buds in with the real medical buds and sell that cheaper. When you start talking price without a known product you are just chasing rainbows. I have a very wide range of value in what I produce. Some is only worth $160. When you get those holy grail nugs, you can't price comparo with the fluffy buds. I'm not sure why anyone here still does that?

[sourpatchez]

160 wouldnt even pay the electric bill. its a lot of work having a successful harvest and if you are growing quality cannabis and growing hydroponically it is DANK and i wouldnt take no less than 300 for an oz. its expensive to maintain a garden and keep up with the rising cost of electriciity. reg commercial is 160 on oz

[cristinew]

your have to know how to grow,,

[Highlander]

160 wouldnt even pay the electric bill. its a lot of work having a successful harvest and if you are growing quality cannabis and growing hydroponically it is DANK and i wouldnt take no less than 300 for an oz. its expensive to maintain a garden and keep up with the rising cost of electriciity. reg commercial is 160 on oz

 

Maybe you should take a second look at your system then. It does not matter where I get this information - first hand or third hand...but it is well-documented and I could give you a list of 10 gorwers who'd agree, but let's look at the costs:

 

72 plants. (sure cost/oz for a 12 or 24 plant grow will be higher.) Assume 2 weeks in the cloner, six more in veg, 10 in flower, two in dry/cure. That's 20 weeks per plant. Or an average harvest of 3.6 plants per week. Planning ahead for 20% failure we end up with an average of 3 plants harvested per week.

 

At about 60 watts per square foot, you get 4 plants under each 1,000 watts in flower. Assume 2 oz per plant. (but since we already factored in a 25% failure rate, and considering the long veg time, 2 oz per plant is extremely conservative.) If you can't pull 8oz per a 1,000watt HPS then growing isn't your thing. That's less than 1/4oz per watt. A beginner's stat.

 

Assume about 9,000 watts in the flower room and let's say 2,000 watts veg. Add a couple thousand more watts for a chiller, pumps, fans, meters, etc. At 10-15 cents per kilowatt hour (depending on season) that's about $600 to $1000 per month in electricity. So let's go with $800 average.

 

A conservative 3 plants per week at a very conservative 2 oz per plant is 6 oz per week. At $160/oz this equals $960 per week, or $3,840 per month gross income. Subtract $800 for utilities, say $400 to rent the barn/basement, $200 in supplies and $400 in equipment (debt service, new bulbs, etc.) we end up with about $1800 in expenses.

 

That leaves $2000 per month to pay the grower.

 

Or, if 24oz/month is too much to move to five patients, cut the numbers in half. That's probably closer to typical.

 

 

Please let me know what part of this equation isn't working for you.

 

I see it work for many people. I will try to help you figure out why your grow costs so much or why your yields are so low. There is no reason why a competent grower shouldn't be able to produce 6 oz per week off 72 plants or 3 oz of 36. All for about 12 hours per week work.

 

There is no reason why a competent CG can't stick to $160/oz and still make $1000 to $2000 per month free and clear...and probably get his meds covered too.

 

You obviously figured out the cost/income equation yourself in order to arrive at the conclusion that $160 is below cost of electricity alone.

 

Maybe you could run through your own numbers for comparison (clone time, veg time, flower time, yield, expenses, rent, etc.)

 

Let's keep it real.

Edited November 7, 2012 by Highlander