So The House Has Passed Right To Work.

[CaveatLector]

Well they have the right to go find another job if they hated the union so much,,

That makes me laugh. Don't like the good old boys club and what they do for you? Don't want to fork over a percent of your paycheck every month? Go find another job . . .

 

Gotta be part of the club to work here!

[Restorium2]

[cristinew]

Well when someone complains about walmarts low wadges the GOP says go find another job,,''

Edited December 7, 2012 by cristinew

[cristinew]

So if one person does not like the union,, the who company has to drop the union,, that is not fair,,

[cristinew]

Well My Union Got Me Long term Disability THANK GOD

[Restorium2]

So if one person does not like the union,, the who company has to drop the union,, that is not fair,,

Not exactly. What it means is that the company can hire a bunch of union busters that will not pay dues and not strike when conditions get bad. So the unions will be so weak they will just go away. Then they got you right where they want you. Watch that video and expect to go backwards until it's 1936 all over again. Watch the video and see what your kids will be doing at work. When they fall down from heat exhaustion hope no one steps on them.

[rhinoman]

That makes me laugh. Don't like the good old boys club and what they do for you? Don't want to fork over a percent of your paycheck every month? Go find another job . . .

 

Gotta be part of the club to work here!

Hey Caveatlector, even if your in the good old boys club doesnt mean you have a job.

[CaveatLector]

Not exactly. What it means is that the company can hire a bunch of union busters that will not pay dues and not strike when conditions get bad.

They already COULD do that. When nurses at a hospital strike, the hospital brings in temps. Other companies hire scab labor. That already was an option. Right to work doesn't change that. Right to work means the union cannot force out other labor that comes in while union labor is working. When union labor strikes there is nothing stopping a company from hiring other workers.

 

Unions are no better than politicians. They basically ARE politicians. So many here complain about politicians not representing their constituents and/or pulling the wool over their eyes. But somehow you think these unions that you vote for aren't doing the same thing? When a union gets voted in do you not get that the union management has a stake in the union's existence? It becomes as much about keeping the union around for the sake of the union as it is about bargaining for workers. Unions are NOT what they used to be. Why should someone be forced to join the machine in order to work somewhere?

[nthlghts]

This is a good day for Michigan! Now companies can bring jobs rather than avoiding us.

[rhinoman]

Not exactly. What it means is that the company can hire a bunch of union busters that will not pay dues and not strike when conditions get bad. So the unions will be so weak they will just go away. Then they got you right where they want you. Watch that video and expect to go backwards until it's 1936 all over again. Watch the video and see what your kids will be doing at work. When they fall down from heat exhaustion hope no one steps on them.

its already goin on in detroit sewer dept.(union busters).

[rhinoman]

This is a good day for Michigan! Now companies can bring jobs rather than avoiding us.

only if ya want a $10 an hour job.

[Restorium2]

They already COULD do that. When nurses at a hospital strike, the hospital brings in temps. Other companies hire scab labor. That already was an option. Right to work doesn't change that. Right to work means the union cannot force out other labor that comes in while union labor is working. When union labor strikes there is nothing stopping a company from hiring other workers.

 

Unions are no better than politicians. They basically ARE politicians. So many here complain about politicians not representing their constituents and/or pulling the wool over their eyes. But somehow you think these unions that you vote for aren't doing the same thing? When a union gets voted in do you not get that the union management has a stake in the union's existence? It becomes as much about keeping the union around for the sake of the union as it is about bargaining for workers. Unions are NOT what they used to be. Why should someone be forced to join the machine in order to work somewhere?

Did you watch the video?

 

Right to work makes it so the company can hire a bunch of people and give them incentives not to join the union and pay dues. These busters get all the perks the union fights for but they don't pay dues. If all the employees get advantages from what the dues help them negotiatate for then they all should help define their rights and pay the dues. If you haven't ever worked in a stinking manufacturing plant then you might not have any idea what the unions have done for Michigan. Most have no clue. I've been there and seen the things that have changed for the better ONLY because of unions. There are plants that the air was barely breathable that now have clean air ONLY because of the union. When asbestos is falling on your head while you work the ONLY chance you have of getting it to stop is the union. Been there and done that, 1st hand account here.

[cristinew]

only if ya want a $10 an hour job.

 

or less,,,, we see other right to work states hiring at 8 bucks an hour

[Restorium2]

or less,,,, we see other right to work states hiring at 8 bucks an hour

and no benefits

[cristinew]

We can look at the bright side , we can work 50 hours a week and still qualify for 30 bucks worth of food stamps.

[CaveatLector]

Did you watch the video?

 

Right to work makes it so the company can hire a bunch of people and give them incentives not to join the union and pay dues. These busters get all the perks the union fights for but they don't pay dues. If all the employees get advantages from what the dues help them negotiatate for then they all should help define their rights and pay the dues. If you haven't ever worked in a stinking manufacturing plant then you might not have any idea what the unions have done for Michigan. Most have no clue. I've been there and seen the things that have changed for the better ONLY because of unions. There are plants that the air was barely breathable that now have clean air ONLY because of the union. When asbestos is falling on your head while you work the ONLY chance you have of getting it to stop is the union. Been there and done that, 1st hand account here.

Ha, I've worked some pretty hard jobs and never been in a union. I know how things can get. The answer isn't unions. It was, but not anymore. Do you have any idea what teachers' unions have done in this state? The leverage they have? They keep good-for-nothing teachers on-the-job. How is that good for anyone except the individual teacher? I've seen it. I'm sure you have as well.

 

If you know anything about GM and unions then you know that there was widespread abuse of the workplace by workers. They could sabotage an assembly-line to shut down work for the day and receive no punishment in return. Who here doesn't have first-hand knowledge, or know a relative who has told them, or heard from a friend how workers would work for 1/2 the time and then skip out of work and still get paid? I know people who would go home and mow their lawns while on company time at GM. Unions turned the working class into the middle-class. Back in the day you could be a high school dropout and still end up making $30/hour with cadillac level health insurance, huge retirement plans, and all sorts of other perks. Is that not a bit ridiculous when you have people graduating with 4 year degrees who cannot reach that level of compensation in their lifetimes? Someone said a union-free job would yield $10/hour. How is that bad for unskilled labor? You have resident doctors that make less than what line-workers used to their first year on the job.

 

Lastly, workplace safety shouldn't be a bargained-for right. Saying unions keep workers safe is dumb. If that is the case then 80% of Michigan workers are unsafe because that is the number of workers in Michigan that are NOT union members. MIOSHA should be the standard for workplace safety. Uniform regulations across the state. Not bargained-for safety. Arguing that MIOSHA is underfunded is a dumb argument. If it is underfunded then push for funding so ALL Michigan workers are guaranteed the same level of safety. Tax businesses according to their risk. Use that tax to fund MIOSHA. That is the solution, not bargained-for safety.

[mibrains]

i have to say... having never worked a union crew before but being in construction and related industry for the majority of my life...that my opinion is that the unions have gone out of control in many ways.

 

we now have OSHA and a zillion other federal and state inspections that prevent a dangerous workplace.

benefits are now going to be required for everyone in some way thanks to obamacare..

not that it does not happen but in today's world i can't support paying an extra 10k for an automobile so that workers get the benefits that are described to me by some very close friends in the auto industry..or 100k for a house...

 

a die maker or repair person cannot pick up a broom to clean up their own mess at Chrysler...he has to wait (and supervise the sweepings) over an hour usually for a cleaning person.

workers can drink at lunch (on video) and return to work...

entry level wages are triple what we (outside carpenters union) are being paid...($25 an hr for entry level union gophers)

 

seriously..

ridiculous... entry level gophers are minimum wage jobs... learn.. get paid more.. don't ride the tails of those who stood before you.

 

our country seems to be drifting to a "lazy no work just sit around and expect things" mentality and i am kinda tired of it all...

 

i say let go and let god handle it all.

[DLD420]

Never could have guessed you never worked in a Union. The average difference in wages between RTW states and non is over 5300 bucks. 21% more people lack health ins in RTW states, poverty rate in RTW states is12.5%, non RTW work is10.2%, workplace deaths is 51% higher in RTW states. Go ahead and explain why it's so much better in RTW states.

[CaveatLector]

not that it does not happen but in today's world i can't support paying an extra 10k for an automobile so that workers get the benefits that are described to me by some very close friends in the auto industry..or 100k for a house...

 

Spot on!!! Paying unskilled labor at a level (or more) that college grads get boosts inflation. It also causes a degradation of the workforce. This country is turning into a land of high-paid, unskilled lackeys. Education isn't valued the way it should be. Then we wonder why Asian countries are pulling ahead of us. Edited December 7, 2012 by CaveatLector

[bobandtorey]

I think that this is not wearter its good or bad but its about how they got it voted in

They did the back door thing

Same as they did the E M thing in the D am not saying the D needs one or not ido know the people in this State voted it down but the governor just changed the old Law to be used

[+Malamute]

I think people are speaking of the abusive unions that really started in the 60's and "went too far". That concept is long gone at this point and the abuses spoke of are almost unilaterally a thing of the past.

 

Fact: Non union machine shop workers are making 60% of what a Union Machine shop makes. Right here in my own backyard.

 

The products that come out of the non-Union shop are always at a higher rate flawed and lower quality. It raises production costs to the point that you should have just hired the Union shop with properly skilled and trained workers and done the job right the first time. Same cost except employees make less and production costs more.

 

I am a 100% Union supporter. But i am also not blind to the abuses of the past. I grew up in the shadow of caterpillar,allsteel, anchor brush, dial and a slew of other large manufacturing corporations and have first hand seen those abuses..... 20-30+ years ago. Things are different. Bad teachers can be dealt with. The Union no longer has the pull it used to and they have made progress in resolving the issue of bad teachers. Bad parents and lack of home education is really a way larger slice of the problem, but wtvr.

 

Anyhow, i respect people not liking Unions, it is a choice in values.

 

And as far as workplace abuses, they exist everywhere and in higher quantities in non union arenas. Such as the nonunion kid working at Taco Bell who is jerking off in your guacamole, or the non- union baggers at the grocery store who put your bag of potatoes on top of your eggs. :-)

[cristinew]

I could pull way ahead if i could have you all as my slaves,,,,, I for one do not want to live the way they do in China ,

 

 

This country is turning into a land of high-paid, unskilled lackeys. where?? Maybe in the Michigan House

 

and Senate,

 

 

 

This country is turning into a land of high-paid, unskilled lackeys??? And where are all these High Paid Jobs at that this country is turning into,, I Know many family's that could use a parent working at one of them

Edited December 7, 2012 by cristinew

[CaveatLector]

 

The products that come out of the non-Union shop are always at a higher rate flawed and lower quality. It raises production costs to the point that you should have just hired the Union shop with properly skilled and trained workers and done the job right the first time. Same cost except employees make less and production costs more.

Clearly flawed products should be caught at a quality control line. But if they aren't then the buyers eventually ditch the supplier for a new supplier. Market forces will dictate which businesses survive. That will ultimately be a function of worker pride which will exist in a happy work environment. Suitable wages beget happier workers. 80% of Michigan workers operate in this manner. Market forces can fix most of these problems.

 

As for worker safety, as I've stated, shouldn't be a bargained-for benefit. No one here can argue otherwise in good conscience!!! So I'm all for a strong MIOSHA agency.

[mibrains]

well it sounds like the quality control people need a boost at those machine shops...

 

and the kid jerkin off in your guacamole is gonna do it no matter if he or she was union or not...simply because they are a sick individual and a union cannot prevent or predict those behaviors or actions...

 

my friend still works at Chrysler right now and he takes a book and newspaper to work every day still because of the "downtime" waiting for the people that are required to clean up after him...

he hates it..

at first he said it was kinda nice.. and i was like.. wow how cool.. nothing to worry about there..

 

but after 10 plus years a person can see the waste day in and day out then try to purchase an automobile and ya have to stop and ask why...

 

and in China (most of Asia actually)... they outnumber us 4 to 1

labor will always be cheaper. it's the government level terrorist attacks they are perpetrating against our economy we should be concerning ourselves with.. from internet attacks to counterfeit money several government level entities are attacking our country every day. (MSNBC and 60 minutes special i saw)

 

i have been non union my whole life. i am not now or was never a slave, nor did i feel like i was treated as one.

i earned a fair wage for a fair product.

the ones who do bad work or charge to much are flushed out by the system...

 

i too respect everyone's position on unions and think "to each their own"

there is a need for something to regulate the relationship between massive management and the workforce... however many (not all) unions have become abusive drains on the very industries they are supposed to be protecting.

[rhinoman]

Hey Caveatlector, if this passes theres not going to be any union jobs. the auto companys and all the others are going to hire non union contractors and pay min wage. will this bring down the price of a car no. just like everone taking pay cuts to keep there jobs. did this bring down the price of a car . no if it wasnt for the unions you all wouldnt be making what yer making now.