The Impact Of 4851, 4853, 4856, & 4834

[mibrains]

ok....

 

let's combine the discussions on the bills to a central source for easy reference for people looking as they hear about the new bills

 

i already had a patient ask me yesterday about when the dispensaries are going to open. they heard the dispensary legislation was on the governors desk...

 

lol

 

i set them straight and provided them with a copy of the new bills.

 

except

4856.. it still isn't posted to the link on the "as passed by the senate" .gov area

[mibrains]

you read my mind zap...

 

[mibrains]

is that the entire text for 4856?

 

seems awfully compact LOL

[Restorium2]

I'll open with;

When do they go into effect again?

http://www.legislatu...11-HCB-4834.htm

 

http://www.legislatu...11-HCB-4851.htm

 

http://www.legislatu...11-HCB-4853.htm

 

http://www.legislatu...11-HCB-4856.htm

 

The top three say they go into effect on April 1st, 2013.

Edited December 19, 2012 by Restorium2

[Timmahh]

Follow the Money.

[cristinew]

4856

 

 

(B) ENCLOSED IN A CASE THAT IS NOT READILY ACCESSIBLE FROM THE

 

INTERIOR OF THE VEHICLE,

 

Now how does the P.A determine that one? or a the patient, a passenger in a mini van can readily access the whole van,,,, Bad Law,,,,,,

[Restorium2]

With the gun law, where the wording says this, you just have to have your gun in a locked box anywhere in the interior, if it's a van-like vehicle. You would think it would be the same for cannabis, even though you can't up and shoot someone with your jar of meds.

[kak1963]

why can i have my pain pills and a case of beer on my seat of my car and be trusted not to use????? this law stinks what they think because we use pot we cant leave it alone unlike my pain pills which r addictive... seems like they just gave a bone to the system to keep money flowing with no regeards to the danger on pills so in mu truck do i need to put it in the back under my kids seats now?? or just a locked box any were??? ... wierd... and single minded prejaduce law attacking patients ... treating us like kids .... funny how narrow minded they are....

[+washtenaut]

I thought I heard that you can give it to your child to hold as long as they aren't a convicted violent felon and as long as they are not using it in a moving vehicle or in a federal park or in any state bordering Colorado or Washington. Oh yeah...or in a hovercraft. Almost forgot the hovercraft rule.

 

Anyone else hear this?

[peanutbutter]

Interesting. The history of the bill shows that the April 1st amendment was concurred in, but the House concurred version, which I linked, doesn't have the language:

 

http://www.legislatu...-4856-16886.PDF

 

Which version did the governor sign?

[kak1963]

I thought I heard that you can give it to your child to hold as long as they aren't a convicted violent felon and as long as they are not using it in a moving vehicle or in a federal park or in any state bordering Colorado or Washington. Oh yeah...or in a hovercraft. Almost forgot the hovercraft rule.

 

Anyone else hear this?

RLOTF......

[blindman21]

I think we came away pretty good with the changes. We didn.t lose any growing rights, LEO did not gain any enhanced right to the registry and with two year cards the price of the program is cut in half. Transporting the meds in a lock box out of the reach is no big deal. I guess the only thing that sucks is if you.re a recent fellon. We could have lost a lot more.... IMHO

[Restorium2]

I think we came away pretty good with the changes. We didn.t lose any growing rights, LEO did not gain any enhanced right to the registry and with two year cards the price of the program is cut in half. Transporting the meds in a lock box out of the reach is no big deal. I guess the only thing that sucks is if you.re a recent fellon. We could have lost a lot more.... IMHO

I'm not so sure the price of a card got cut in half, where did you read that? Is it going to be $100 for two years now? Or are you going to have to pony up $200 to get your card?

[Restorium2]

Also, not just a recent felon, you could have robbed a bank back in '75 and now you can't grow for your sick wife, sister, brother, you get it. A lot of folks lost their rights to grow for others.

[Restorium2]

Lets say you are traveling and now you are at the rest area wanting to medicate. If you take your meds out of the box and a cop pulls up you are out of compliance. Even if you have a designated driver, you are out of compliance.

Edited December 19, 2012 by Restorium2

[+washtenaut]

Is there any way to medicate while traveling short of buying a house, medicating, and flipping the house sale?

[Restorium2]

I like Marriot and I respect their no smoking policy. I go out to my car and medicate. Can't do that anymore.

 

A guy was smoking in his car at the casino. The feds let him go after he showed his card. Can we expect that anymore? Probably not.

[Dr. Bob]

I'm kinda busy right now but here is the summary of 4834

 

HB 4834 Contains the following changes....

• Proof of Michigan Residency by DL, ID (state issued), or voter registration card. Very clear and establishes residency.
  
• The 20 day rule becomes 20 Business Days... this is a minor administration change to assure the department gets the same amount of time to verify each card. Pretty routine. Your bank is the same way.
  
• 2 year cards. Very helpful to patients, especially in areas without clinics. Reduces cost and effort on the part of the patient.
  
• Department may hire subcontractors for the work of issuing cards. You honestly think with a 10 mil budget Kinkos would have taken 8 months to issue a card?
  
• No more excuses, the panel must be seated. It was seated after nearly 4 years as a direct result of this provision in a pending bill.
  
• Registration fees go into a separate fund, rather than the general fund. This allows them to hire people and get equipment to run the program without having to beg for the funds, which was their excuse for the last 3 years why they didn't have printers and staff to handle the cards.
  

That is what is in the bill. No access to the registry, no name/dob or address searches in LIENS, none of the stuff the bill started out with that we all opposed. For the most part, common sense fixes. Patients get their cards, their new condition panel, and the cards are good for 2 years. Honestly, I don't see a problem with any of the provisions of this bill. The extra funding might be used for inspections at some time in the future, but there are no provisions for inspections. Even if they are, having a certificate of compliance from the state will go a LONG way in defending a patient or caregiver in court. If your grow doesn't meet the standard, you more than likely would be issued a citation to correct the deficiencies. Currently that guidance comes in the form of handcuffs and 2 years in court.

[kak1963]

ive been hearing that they can turn our info over to the police now not sure if its true does this prevent that...That is what is in the bill. No access to the registry, no name/dob or address searches in LIENS, thanks

Edited December 19, 2012 by kak

[Dr. Bob]

Please look at the summary of 4834 kak, it was all removed. What's in the bill is what is listed there. Thanks to the efforts of many individuals and groups the lawmakers were lobbied and educated to the point they came around and were uncomfortable. Some of the effort to remove the language came from surprising sources and we'll leave it at that.

 

Bottom line is that the entire HB 4834 boils down to the points I listed and there are no surprises, that is the one going to the gov.

 

Take the time to write your Senator and Rep and thank them for listening to us and removing the language on access, and while you are at it thank them for the 2 year cards and the new condition panel.

 

Dr. Bob

Edited December 19, 2012 by Dr. Bob

[Dr. Bob]

Summary of HB 4851 (bona fide)

1. Defines 'bona fide' along the lines of the medical board's standard for certification. In person visit will limit availability and increase work load for physicians in the rural areas of Michigan, especially the UP.
   
2. Clearly defines the term 'enclosed secured' and specifies the basic construction of an outdoor grow.
   
3. Regulates the transportation of living plants and who may be present.
   
4. Expands the prohibition to becoming caregivers to drug felons and violent felons. Non violent felons have a 10 year waiting period.
   
5. Must have state photo ID and registration card for section 4 immunity.
   

This bill has more teeth than 4834. It clearly defined previously undefined terms that have resulted in prosecutions. Because they are defined, we have a uniformed standard to which we are judged, rather than county by county interpretation of what undefined terms mean. What is ok in Clare Co may NOT be ok in Oakland, now the playing field is leveled. This is actually helpful in a variety of settings, from certifications to greenhouses.

 

The expanded list of felonies hurts potential patients and caregivers, of all the bills, this section bothers me the most. Fortunately there is a sundown provision on non-violent felonies, but folks are being penalized for things that may have occurred decades ago. This will require work in the future.

 

Finally, just some tweaks like the 20 'business' days we saw in 4834. It is nice to know how to transport plants, and who can be with them, but the situation doesn't come up much and when it does we know what to do to stay out of trouble.

 

Dr. Bob

[+Malamute]

If people take the time to look at the laws and definitions in other states pertaining to "bona fide" relationship, you will find that michigan either is, or equal to the most lenient interpretations.

 

The LARA definition of Bona Fide was "overall" stricter than what was passed in HB 4851. I say "overall" for good reason. Telemedicine has been restricted for initial visits. Other than that, i see nothing different other than some more lax guidelines passed by this law. LARA had guidelines for what an office must be and some other goofiness, as well as a horrible attachment to their released guidelines that just about eviscerated the whole concept of medical cannabis.

 

So,... disregarding the Telemedicine issue, the guidelines of "bona fide" are more lenient than what we already have been living under in the LARA guidelines.

[+Malamute]

Here is a paraphrase from a legislator that wrote this bill..." If you can't go see your doctor in person once every 2 years, than what the hell".

 

Can anyone reeeallly argue that?

 

(cue Dr Bob)

 

:-)

Edited December 19, 2012 by Malamute

[Dr. Bob]

Twice a month Mal, Twice a month. I hate driving in the snow.

 

Dr. Bob

 

PS, seriously, you hear me complaining about regulations requiring me to do what I already do? Hate to be a no record mill doc about now. They will be about as common as the dispensary doctors that no one can seem to find when they are needed for renewals....or court.

Edited December 19, 2012 by Dr. Bob

[+Malamute]

I know my friend.

 

When i say "can anyone reeeally argue that" i mean YES,... we did.

 

The good doctor helped us fight against the restrictions on Telemedicine.

 

It is something that REALLY needs to exist in the U.P. like bigtime.

 

The Good Doctor there travels endlessly across and around the entire U.P. to help sooo many rural patients. Telemedicine is legitimate and the future of medicine. Espescially if you have a nurse on the other end with the patient being instructed to do physical checks for the doctor, if needed. We have immobile patients that live 2-3 hours from clinics. If asked Dr Bob will travel, not to make money because in those cases he doesnt, but does it simply to help a patient.

 

I hear and see people say stuff about ye ol doctor here and you can not like like what he says, how he says it and all that good stuff; but, i judge him by his actions and he has helped us patients in the U.P. to the fullest extent.

 

Anyhow, thanks for fighting against these Bona Fide standards,... notice i say against them.(directed towards some delusional dysfunctionals)

 

Maybe in the future we will be able to restore Telemedicine for when circumstances call for it, and i am confident at some point we will. Never stop trying and always keep moving forward.