The Impact Of 4851, 4853, 4856, & 4834

[kak1963]

Please look at the summary of 4834 kak, it was all removed. What's in the bill is what is listed there. Thanks to the efforts of many individuals and groups the lawmakers were lobbied and educated to the point they came around and were uncomfortable. Some of the effort to remove the language came from surprising sources and we'll leave it at that.

 

Bottom line is that the entire HB 4834 boils down to the points I listed and there are no surprises, that is the one going to the gov.

 

Take the time to write your Senator and Rep and thank them for listening to us and removing the language on access, and while you are at it thank them for the 2 year cards and the new condition panel.

 

Dr. Bob

very good!!!!! i will do that! thats the best news ive herd ...... i agree they didnt do to bad at all... i feel much better... thanks...

[+washtenaut]

 

 

Take the time to write your Senator and Rep and thank them for listening to us and removing the language on access, and while you are at it thank them for the 2 year cards and the new condition panel.

 

 

No, sorry. Don't think I'll be thanking anyone in the Michigan Legislature for passing these bills.

 

Reminds of the father-in-law in the Holy Grail. 'Let's not bicker and argue about who killed who. This is supposed to be a happy occasion.'

[+Malamute]

Yea, i wouldn't be thanking them either. :-)

 

Thank the ones that voted against it.

 

Some did help remove crappy donkey language and it is appreciated they removed a bunch of crap, but if they still voted for it they can suck my..... um nvm.

 

;-)

[peanutbutter]

Thank you for being gentle? Sure am glad it didn't hurt worse.

 

Thank you for the child with cancer that no longer qualifies because the parents have records.

 

Thank you for the stage four cancer patients calling for help from other states. Begging for help to stay alive. Now we know the complete answer. "Tough luck."

Edited December 19, 2012 by peanutbutter

[Dr. Bob]

Yea, i wouldn't be thanking them either. :-)

 

Thank the ones that voted against it.

 

Some did help remove crappy donkey language and it is appreciated they removed a bunch of crap, but if they still voted for it they can suck my..... um nvm.

 

;-)

 

I was specifically referring to HB 4834. That was a horror that turned out pretty decent. Got to keep things in context. I'm not so pleased with 4851 due to the telemed issue for the UP (something I just couldn't get through their heads) and the expanded felon restrictions.

 

We did get a lot of common sense clarification of areas that were exploited by LEO against the community. Half the battle of successfully completing a task is knowing what is expected of you as a measurement of successful completion. Lot of folks here don't seem to realize that.

 

Why find clever ways to get out of a charge (section 8) when you can comply to the known standards and avoid the charge all together. Guess some folks just enjoy arguing over every a and their.

 

Dr. Bob

Edited December 19, 2012 by Dr. Bob

[Hayduke]

Nothing gentle about it. It is a full on contact sport, with winner, whiners, and losers...

 

Unfortunately lobbyists and citizens have only limited input, and certainly no control.

[kak1963]

i was thinking it would be worse... and it could have been very easy... yes it blows but it is what it is.... us older ones should now that by now.... we rarely get whats right or what makes sense to us anymore.....

[bobandtorey]

 

 

I was specifically referring to HB 4834. That was a horror that turned out pretty decent. Got to keep things in context. I'm not so pleased with 4851 due to the telemed issue for the UP (something I just couldn't get through their heads) and the expanded felon restrictions.

 

We did get a lot of common sense clarification of areas that were exploited by LEO against the community. Half the battle of successfully completing a task is knowing what is expected of you as a measurement of successful completion. Lot of folks here don't seem to realize that.

 

Why find clever ways to get out of a charge (section 8) when you can comply to the known standards and avoid the charge all together. Guess some folks just enjoy arguing over every a and their.

 

Dr. Bob

 

Why find clever ways to get out of a charge (section 8) when you can comply to the known standards and avoid the charge all together

 

Imo thats t not how i see it i think they are saying its another way for Leo to get some body

 

And some people are going to go down for things that the voters didn't want them too get locked up

Things like 72plants and legal but lock him up because they are altogether

[bobandtorey]

I cant Waite to see a letter from the card people informing me as to all the NEW Laws

[mibrains]

Nothing gentle about it. It is a full on contact sport, with winner, whiners, and losers...

 

Unfortunately lobbyists and citizens have only limited input, and certainly no control.

 

interesting...

full on contact?

giggle

i probably should take that figuratively and not literally...

 

i too will not be thanking the legislature for passing these bills.

 

they are a waste of time at best...

 

they don't serve any purpose except to say... "see we tried to make changes and you can't even like that"

 

our fore fathers enacted a legislative process so that the "whim of the moment" could not be exploited. they were genius because they understood that true good and everlasting change takes time, and it should happen slowly. not based on the current will of the people but based on the proven desire for long term changes instead.

they railroad these bills through with immediate effect... like the constitution and our forefathers way of thinking does not even matter.. makes me sick. but we will legalize cannabis and these rules will be outdated almost before they are implemented.

 

much like a computer

the new rules have already been shown to be deficient and have outlived their changes...

i got my last card in 8 days (business days)

so a waste to allow LARA to subcontract

i know that even if they keep the rates for a two year card the same now.. they will double that rate soon enough to catch up.

i know i already had to have a copy of my MI drivers license with me or suitable id.

i already knew they don't want me to be able to "reach and use" my cannabis from the drivers seat

i know they didn't like skype recommendations...

ect ect

 

these bills serve to purport a self interest. not that of the American individual citizen.

 

i don't support any of these bills nor their legislative bodies.

 

the lawmakers are disconnected and seem to be doing anything that they can to keep their jobs rather than work to stand up and "fix" the system.

[peanutbutter]

Nothing gentle about it. It is a full on contact sport, with winner, whiners, and losers...

 

Unfortunately lobbyists and citizens have only limited input, and certainly no control.

 

Yeah .. the whiners need to learn to lay back and enjoy it.

[cristinew]

WILL PROVIDE FOLLOW-UP CARE TO THE PATIENT TO MONITOR THE EFFICACY

 

OF THE USE OF MEDICAL MARIHUANA

 

 

What is defined in the law as a legal follow up? don't what the court to hang people on that one,,

Edited December 20, 2012 by cristinew

[t-pain]

this is what LARA sent to doctors

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/lara/lara_Medical_Marihuana_Final_Written_Certification_Statement_8-15-11_376283_7.pdf

and i'm guessing what that bill was based on.

 

a follow up means a follow up consultation either via telephone or in office.

it does not mean a renewal. it means a specific follow up appointment/consult to see if its working.

my doctor has a form i gotta fill out, where i have to describe how effective mmj is for me.

 

no wonder some doctors were for this bill huh? means they get more required-by-law business.

then those doctors have the nerve to say its for 'your safety'.

[bobandtorey]

WILL PROVIDE FOLLOW-UP CARE TO THE PATIENT TO MONITOR THE EFFICACY

 

OF THE USE OF MEDICAL MARIHUANA

 

 

What is defined in the law as a legal follow up? don't what the court to hang people on that one,,

 

I think

you got the picture and the point it wii be business as Usual for the courts

 

 

[Restorium2]

What LARA sent to doctors;

 

The standard of care that applies when certifying individuals as candidates for use of medical marijuana is the same as that expected in any other situation in which an individual is being evaluated for medical services. A special standard, higher or lower, is not called for in certifying patients for use of marijuana.

 

Take that Dr. Steven E. Newman, past President of the Michigan State Medical Society. It looks like your peers thought you were wrong just like I did. So much for your crusade with Schuette. I see it was one of your very last actions as president. Good riddance to backward thinking doctors. Who wrote that important piece of information sent to doctors? I would like to shake their hand.

[cristinew]

Is the follow up every 6 months,, once a year> lets be clear on this ,, we don't want to give the PA a loop whole to hang us .. is a phone call good enough, is a visit required for the follow up... a form filled out good enough or will that put you in jail ,, would be good to know what really is a LEGAL follow up

[cristinew]

and lara says this

 

 

Have a bona fide physician-patient relationship with the patient, i.e.,

should have a pre-existing and ongoing relationship with the patient as a

treating physician;

Ensure that the issuance of ‘recommendations’ is not a disproportionately

large (or even exclusive) aspect of their practice

 

that would put most cannabis drs certs illegal...;

[Restorium2]

Is the follow up every 6 months,, once a year> lets be clear on this ,, we don't want to give the PA a loop whole to hang us .. is a phone call good enough, is a visit required for the follow up... a form filled out good enough or will that put you in jail ,, would be good to know what really is a LEGAL follow up

As LARA says in my previous post; The same as any other medical treatment.

 

What are the standards already in place?

[cristinew]

What are the standards already in place? yes but our law says this

 

 

WILL PROVIDE FOLLOW-UP CARE TO THE PATIENT TO MONITOR THE EFFICACY

 

OF THE USE OF MEDICAL MARIHUANA

 

Now what is a LEGAL follow up????? Is it in person every 6 months once a year?

phone call ,,, a form every 6 months or what?

 

Please tell us what a Legal follow up is, so we can be somewhat safe,.

Edited December 20, 2012 by cristinew

[Restorium2]

What are the standards already in place? yes but our law says this

 

 

WILL PROVIDE FOLLOW-UP CARE TO THE PATIENT TO MONITOR THE EFFICACY

 

OF THE USE OF MEDICAL MARIHUANA

 

Now what is a LEGAL follow up????? Is it in person every 6 months once a year?

phone call ,,, a form every 6 months or what?

 

Please tell us what a Legal follow up is, so we can be somewhat safe,.

Here are the rules for prescriptions, they should apply;

http://www.medscape.com/resource/opioid/opioid-michigan

[SFC]

So now the question is: Will it be ok to open the law in order to get ALL felons sunset ability? Keep in mind unintended liabilities of doing so..

[cristinew]

that sill does not answer the question ,,

[SFC]

If you have been going to the same Dr for certification since the beginning I think it is safe to say you have had follow up care.

[Dr. Bob]

You guys are selectively trying to find the most difficult language you can to say the standards are difficult to meet.

 

What the law ACTUALLY says for follow up is

 

The Physician has a reasonable expectation that he will provide follow up care.

 

I've paraphrased that a little but what does it require? I certify you, I don't need a pre-existing relationship but I do need your medical records. In my practice, the way I handle the follow up is to offer you a free follow up appointment in 6 months, which I strongly encourage you to keep. At the follow up appointment, I ask you about the effects of cannabis on your condition, ask about problems, and answer any of your questions. Then I remind you when your renewal is due. This is all recorded in your chart. Done. Your chart is now complete.

 

I also offer free follow up, expert testimony, and answer questions as they come up. What is the problem with that? It isn't difficult.

 

All this nonsense about "4 fully paid visits" are just that, nonsense. No where in the law does it call for that. If a practice requires it, that is up to the practice and you have a choice of what practice you go to. I suggest you ask them before you get your cert so you know how they handle the follow up.

 

Dr. Bob

[Restorium2]

that sill does not answer the question ,,

You have to read all those guidlines. What it boils down to is case by case. Each case will be different.