About Guns In America.

[mrd]

I was just blown away by this graphic. Yes i am one of those gun control advocates although I do understand the 2nd amendment and i am not here to argue it all. I just want to point out we lost 3000 people in 911 and we went Crazy! Look at this  (as long as it is up) I just want to point out there is a problem and we might be better off seeking solutions that work and that are real and effective. It is a hard problem in reality. 

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com  3/23/2013    and yes they are very liberal, I know but that is not the point. Also can we not argue about gun control for we did that in another post. Clear thinking and solutions. Not Talking points from either side.

[cristinew]

That Map makes an interesting Point,,,,  Upper Michigan We all have guns,,,, and NO RED DOTS,,,  so that proves its a people problem not a gun,,

[Dr. Bob]

Wow, Midwest and NC look rather violent.  Good point about the UP, wish everyone could be a Yooper.

 

Dr. Bob

[phaquetoo]

I think you would have to look long and hard to not find at least a rifle in some ones home where I live, and we dont have gun violence here, we have people shooting each other with needles though!!

 

Mostly what I see up here before bear hunting is the blue ticks every where practing with their masters, hunting realy is a sport, and it is done for our echo system, we have had some bad winters that killed more deer than hunters did, now ask your self wouldnt you rather have a deer in your freezer than dead and frozen in some feild?

 

I dont realy care about the size of the clips and stuff like that, if you need a 75 bannan clip you should just stay out of the woods lol!

 

people that live in alaska shoot bears all the time, if a bear is in a neighbor hood it means it is not afraid of people and it needs to be shot before it kills you or your kid!

 

Peace

Jim

[thanks2]

Teach people that the value of human life is based on their worth or if they are wanted and this is what happens.  The most dangerous place to be on earth is in the mother’s womb, one out of two in the inner cities never make it out.  If the value of life is just a line in the sand, how do we expect anything different?  Those who do not value innocent children will never value adults.  Combined with the glorification of violence by holly wood and music it is the perfect recipe for death. 

 

Want to stop killing, teach killing is wrong, period.  Murder is already banned, only the changing of hearts will stop it.

[Wild Bill]

 If the value of life is just a line in the sand, how do we expect anything different?  Those who do not value innocent children will never value adults.  Combined with the glorification of violence by holly wood and music it is the perfect recipe for death. 

 

Want to stop killing, teach killing is wrong, period.  Murder is already banned, only the changing of hearts will stop it.

 

Exactly! Teach your children the sanctity of human life and teach them to respect themselves.

 

I've been around guns all my life and was always taught that there was only one use for them, to kill.  I wasn't even allowed to point a toy gun at anyone when I was a child.

 

If a young person learns about guns (or anything else for that matter) on television they are getting a twisted view of reality.

 

The schools only teach your child to be a submissive drone, it's up to the parents to teach morality.

 

Most of the school shootings have been done by people who felt they were bullied. They thought that the only way they had out was to shoot.

 

Rather than concentrate on getting rid of weapons and bullies how about teaching the children to have a little backbone stand up for themselves without resorting to violence.

 

The schools teach that only authority figures can solve your problems, "Just do what you're told!". When those same authority figures don't protect the bullied they become like cornered animals and see violence as their only resort.

 

Young people today are for the most part afraid to speak up for themselves. I have been to concerts where they stand in the aisle because someone is sitting in their seats and they are to timid to say,"Excuse me, you're sitting in my seat".

 

Society has turned them into sheeple. They make them less than human and are then surprised when they do inhuman things.

[mrd]

Exactly! Teach your children the sanctity of human life and teach them to respect themselves.

 

I've been around guns all my life and was always taught that there was only one use for them, to kill.  I wasn't even allowed to point a toy gun at anyone when I was a child.

 

If a young person learns about guns (or anything else for that matter) on television they are getting a twisted view of reality.

 

The schools only teach your child to be a submissive drone, it's up to the parents to teach morality.

 

Most of the school shootings have been done by people who felt they were bullied. They thought that the only way they had out was to shoot.

 

Rather than concentrate on getting rid of weapons and bullies how about teaching the children to have a little backbone stand up for themselves without resorting to violence.

 

The schools teach that only authority figures can solve your problems, "Just do what you're told!". When those same authority figures don't protect the bullied they become like cornered animals and see violence as their only resort.

 

Young people today are for the most part afraid to speak up for themselves. I have been to concerts where they stand in the aisle because someone is sitting in their seats and they are to timid to say,"Excuse me, you're sitting in my seat".

 

Society has turned them into sheeple. They make them less than human and are then surprised when they do inhuman things.

i AGREE WITH MOST OF WHAT YOU SAID. BUT I WAS BULLIED A LOT. i DIDN'T ATTEND THE LAST WEEK OF JUNIOR YEAR IN HIGH SCHOOL DUE TO THREATS . iF i COULD GO BACK WITH THE KNOWLEDGE I HAVE NOW IT WOULD HAVE BEEN ME AND A BASEBALL BAT IN WRAPPING PAPER WITH  A BOW. I WOULD HAVE BROKEN THE LIMBS OF THOSE WHO THREATENED ME B4 THEY EVEN KNEW WHAT HAD HAPPENED. ALL THE BRASS BALLS WILL NOT PROTECT YOU FROM A NUMBER OF BULLIES. I STOOD UP TO BULLIES WHO SAID FIGHT ME AFTER SCHOOL BY SAYING LETS FIGHT RIGHT NOW THEN AND THEY BACKED DOWN KNOWING THE RAMIFICATIONS WOULD BE HEAVY. iT IS NOT A SIMPLE SITUATION.  

[solabeirtan]

"  The civil society of the American West in the nineteenth century was much more peaceful than American cities are today, and the evidence suggests that in fact the Old West was not a very violent place at all. History also reveals that the expanded presence of the U.S. government was the real cause of a culture of violence in the American West. If there is anything to the idea that a nineteenth-century culture of violence on the American frontier is the genesis of much of the violence in the United States today, the main source of that culture is therefore government, not civil society."

 

 

Independant Review

 

ps more later Chrome ate my comments. So I put this up for now...

[solabeirtan]

Just an aside here. One of our pioneering Firearms mfgs Colt industries has a shocking revelation about its ownership. Though we all grieve for the innocent lives that were lost at Sandy Hook Elementary. The people of Connecticut have some deep soul searching to do. Would you consider Colt a growth industry ?  

 

 

 

Inventor of the week : 

 

"  and in 1990, it was sold to a combination of stakeholders including union employees, the State of Connecticut, and private investors."

 

ps Connecticut has been the home of Colt  for the last 175 yrs.

Edited March 26, 2013 by solabeirtan

[Sledge]

Gun proponents launch free shotgun program for crime-ridden neighborhoods in Arizona, Texas

 

Published March 29, 2013

Associated Press

TUCSON, Ariz. –  A campaign promising free shotguns for people to protect themselves in Tucson's most troubled neighborhoods has divided some residents in a community still reeling from the deadly shooting rampage that killed six people in 2011.

Shaun McClusky says guns are the solution to Tucson's crime problem, and he's working with The Armed Citizen Project to give shotguns to single women and homeowners.

Donors have committed about $12,000 to the Arizona effort. It costs about $400 for each participant to receive a shotgun and weapons training.

The Armed Citizen Project based in Texas seeks to arm neighborhoods in 15 cities by the end of the year.

The group says that at least 13 single women in Houston have already received shotguns.

 

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/03/29/gun-proponents-launch-free-shotgun-program-for-crime-ridden-neighborhoods-in/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+foxnews%2Fnational+%28Internal+-+US+Latest+-+Text%29#ixzz2OvSmHAd8

[solabeirtan]

Guns are cheap in Tucson. Bet you could get about 200 Street Dusters for $12,000. or various other assortments, how about  A couple dozen M16s or AKs your choice, or a half-doz M82 Barrett 50s. Keep  our girls safe, all races qualified!

Edited March 29, 2013 by solabeirtan

[jointedone]

Out of my cold DEAD hands..........................

[mrd]

We have been through the arguments see the other thread that went on endlessly. I put up the graphic to show we have a problem with gun deaths. I want people to put up real solutions not slogans. 

[SFC]

We have half the problem we had in 1992. Half the gun deaths, let that sink in.  Also and this one is a bit of a hot button issue and one the politicians are to chickenshit to say. The vast majority of the gun deaths are in the Black community. Take that one demographic out of the equation and we look like switzerland.  I am not racist in the least but I want all the facts on the table before anyone starts talking about taking away any rights of mine.

 

 In all fairness, the mass killers are usually mentally messed up white males. But that is a very, very, small number.

 

  I don't know what the answer is, but I blame the vast majority of black on black violence on the war on drugs. Without it, I doubt we would see the crime we do.

Edited April 3, 2013 by SFC

[cristinew]

Yes MRD your Map Proves a Point  Most everyone has    Guns In Upper Michigan  look at the map  0 red dots,,  so it is the People you have to deal with,,   war on drugs  is one major problem,  and your link is gone

Edited April 4, 2013 by cristinew

[michaelscott]

We have half the problem we had in 1992. Half the gun deaths, let that sink in. Also and this one is a bit of a hot button issue and one the politicians are to chickenshit to say. The vast majority of the gun deaths are in the Black community. Take that one demographic out of the equation and we look like switzerland. I am not racist in the least but I want all the facts on the table before anyone starts talking about taking away any rights of mine.

 

In all fairness, the mass killers are usually mentally messed up white males. But that is a very, very, small number.

 

I don't know what the answer is, but I blame the vast majority of black on black violence on the war on drugs. Without it, I doubt we would see the crime we do.

Since the war on drugs has not let up post 1992 what are the factors that lead to the reduction in gun violence since then?

[SFC]

That is an excellent Michael, I have a few idea's why but I will look into it first before I say for sure.

[Dr. Bob]

Since the war on drugs has not let up post 1992 what are the factors that lead to the reduction in gun violence since then?

The Brady Bill.  Look at gun deaths and mass shootings while the restrictions were in place compared to before and after.  This has already been discussed.

 

As for lack of dots in the UP, what is the population there compared to say, Metro Detroit?  Notice the lack of dots in Alaska as well.  No people.  No gun deaths.

 

Dr. Bob

[SFC]

I disagree vehemently Bob.  Look at the maps closer. And even during the Brady ban you could still get most any gun you wanted at any gun show.  Look at the stockpile they had in Waco, look at the firepower them two bank robbers had in LA.  Don't fall into the crap trap..

[Dr. Bob]

We will agree to disagree, but the numbers don't lie.  Look at the last post, I and others put them up.  The number of mass killings dipped dramatically during the ban, though they still continued.

 

Replot the data MRD.  Instead of posting raw numbers, plot deaths per 100,000 population.  Your arguments will hold water but the data will be of better quality.  The population of Alaska is 500K and everyone is carrying, even me.  There were what, 3 killings?  2 in Anchorage one in Bethel?  Compare that to Chicago or Detroit with a much larger population density and FAR more killings per 100,000.

 

How many people in the UP was my question.  200K? 100K?  Comparing that to Alaska, where the weaponry and attitudes are similar I would expect 1 or 2 tops in the area.  Maybe it was just lucky, maybe UP criminals drove to unarmed Chicago to commit their crimes.  May there is no infidelity or drunken bar fighting going on in the UP.  Maybe everyone is too snowed in to bother.  

 

But there are a lot of areas on that map where guns are plentiful, yet the dots are there.  Some big dots too.  You can't just pick an area with no dots and then claim that the reason is those in that area shoot criminals with their AR-15's on sight- cause everyone 'knows' they have lots of guns there.  

 

I live in Clare, and grew up in Gobles,  Does that mean you have more guns there than we have here?  Got some data to back that up?

 

Here is a little research project for you guys that 'know' how many guns folks have.  Why don't you put up a map with dots related to number of firearms per 1000 population and then compare that to the murder dots?  Now wouldn't that be an interesting chart?

 

Dr. Bob

[Chauncy Gardner]

We have half the problem we had in 1992. Half the gun deaths, let that sink in.  Also and this one is a bit of a hot button issue and one the politicians are to chickenshit to say. The vast majority of the gun deaths are in the Black community. Take that one demographic out of the equation and we look like switzerland.  I am not racist in the least but I want all the facts on the table before anyone starts talking about taking away any rights of mine.

 

 In all fairness, the mass killers are usually mentally messed up white males. But that is a very, very, small number.

 

  I don't know what the answer is, but I blame the vast majority of black on black violence on the war on drugs. Without it, I doubt we would see the crime we do.

Best answer to date. Stop "The War On Drugs" and gun violence will plummet. It may take a while, but it seems to make sense.

 

I understand the argument about "No Guns = No Gun deaths", but I am a small person not trained in martial arts, and if some gorilla wants to bend me to his will through physical strength, I want to have an equalizer available.

[Dr. Bob]

The argument never was no guns=no gun deaths.  The brady bill allowed gun ownership but put restrictions on such things as magazine capacity and restricted assault rifle ownership based on military features of the rifle- pistol grips/bayonet lugs, etc

 

Dr. Bob

[SFC]

 

Here is a little research project for you guys that 'know' how many guns folks have.  Why don't you put up a map with dots related to number of firearms per 1000 population and then compare that to the murder dots?  Now wouldn't that be an interesting chart?

 

 

Dr. Bob

 

Kind of difficult to get accurate numbers when criminals aren't reporting.. C'mon Bob, your mind is sharper than that.

[Dr. Bob]

Kind of difficult to get accurate numbers when criminals aren't reporting.. C'mon Bob, your mind is sharper than that.

Yes, it is, but yours is as well.  The number of 'unregistered criminal guns' is not the issue.  You and others are bringing up the point that homeowners and law abiding citizens are 'preventing' murders and such by having guns.  You point out the lack of dots in the UP for example and claim it is because people 'own guns' there are a higher rate than the areas that do have dots.  My point that it was more likely related to the lack of population available to shoot or cause violence among themselves can easily be refuted by showing that they are an armed population and can be compared to a similar sized unarmed population in an area with dots.

 

The 'criminals don't register their guns' argument is right up there with 'cannabis is bad and we must protect the children and puppies' argument used by Schuette and the other antis.  We are all better than that and don't need to use those lower order arguments.  Put some actual data up and argue the point.  No more straw men.

 

Dr. Bob

 

PS, and the Brady Bill did reduce the number of mass killings in this country, Criminal and Law Abiding alike.  The numbers cannot be argued.  And people still owned guns.

Edited April 8, 2013 by Dr. Bob

[michiganmedclones]

Before you dismiss the criminals don't register their guns argument has anyone done any research on the guns that are used to commit a crime/murder and if they're registered to the criminal or to someone else/reported stolen? I'd be willing to bet that over 75% are the latter, it's an amazingly simple argument that is being so convoluted and watered down I don't even listen anymore. The high capacity magazines and semi auto weapons are and have been readily available, the people you don't want to have them already do, if the laws change they're going to dismantle them, report them stolen stash them and retrieve them when they need them. It's not a theory it's a fact, take booze away legally but you go to a underground establishment and boom, booze is there. Drugs, guns, whatever may be illegal they will still be plentiful. By taking these out of citizens that follow the law and own them for sport, recreation, or protection you put the people that own them with criminal intentions with the upper hand in any situation where you would actually need to use your firearm. I don't own any due to the strange laws right now regarding them and medical cannabis but my family has firearms and quite a few friends do and talking to them about why they have them and what they use them for and compare that to what the media is reporting and the laws they're proposing it's clear there is some other alternative motive that government has to disarm the citizens.