Help Ohio Legalize Marijuana

[t-pain]

eh, if 2012 is any indication, none of the ballot proposals will win in michigan, all will be voted down. the voters dont like a bunch of partisan initiatives on the ballot, they only like partisan hacks running for office.

 

http://ballotpedia.org/Michigan_2012_ballot_measures

 

forgot about this try for legalization in 2012.

 

http://ballotpedia.org/Michigan_Marijuana_Legalization_Amendment_(2012)

[t-pain]

after having seen how they have used the MM Fund, directly for the policing of patients and their caregivers

you know that police arent using mm grant funds when they are arresting patients and caregivers , so this is a bit unfair. they are using regular drug funds because mj is still illegal.

 

in fact do we even have evidence of any sherriffs using the fund at all? a newspaper report with some quotes that "it would be approved". and a report of a caregiver who talked about inspections. but is it related or just more lying police?

 

wheres your evidence zap pppp?

[Restorium2]

Really, where do I side with Shuette?  I see where you do in being against MiLegalize, but I don't side with Shuette in any of my views.  I accept what's on the board as a form of compromise.  I'm not for mandatory testing, I'm for the system we have with food as where if you sell food at the end of your driveway to an end consumer there is no mandatory testing but if you grow large fields and sell to numerous distributors , who in turn sell to retail establishments then you should be tested and tracked and that local smoke shops should have tested and untested products available, because if I go to Co and want something, where I know no one, I want to be able to pick a tested product. Do you really want megacorps to be able to churn out pesticide laden weed to the masses?  Yes or no? That's my view, you don't have to lie about it all you have to do is ask.  But you've misrepresented it so many times that won't work anymore.  Get a real memory or look up the answers. 

Since you missed it I'll try one more time.  Selling food with hi levels of Ecoli has penalties but they don't test all food.  You CAN HAVE PENALTIES WITHOUT MANDATORY TESTING!  We've already gone over this but you seem to always fall back to the thinking you had before we came to certain truths.

That's not the regulation you are advocating. You are asking for mandatory testing. That's what your form of quasi legalization includes. That's part of accomplishing the monopoly. It's part of the plan you advocate for. 

[imiubu]

Are we? Doesn't seem so to me. He says he wants to protect The Children from The Devil Weed with laws and I would rather have their parents do that. He says he wants to protect everyone from The Devil Weed with testing. I would rather make that just a choice. He's striving for things that I fight against. And it's on most all fronts. I'm not going to pretend that we are fighting for the same things just to be all warm and fuzzy around here. I'm not like that. That never works.

 

I hear you loud and clear resto and, I agree with your stance, I do.

What I was trying to say is that we can disagree and still keep civil discourse.

 

For myself, once I've presented facts with supporting evidence and I am still banging

my head in futility with these folks... I stop.  They are not going to hear me and at that

point I'm just wasting my precious energy.

 

I do believe some folks just can't or won't see past these legalize stars in their eyes.

They do not see our oppressors in an honest light.  They do not remember history

repeats itself.  Our own gov't, courts and leo all conspire against us and will continue.

I am not speaking of the greedy money grabbers here... I am talking about folks that

just want to grow a little herb for themselves.  I won't get into those in our community

that will throw us under the bus for $$.

MiLegalize is a wolf is sheep’s clothing... mark my words peeps.

 

Legalization will not protect anyone more so than we are now protected under the MMMP.

 

Removing cannabis from the MI csa is not a radical approach, it is the only solution imho.

 

This Prop 3 Ohio sucks and if I lived there I would not vote for it.

[Norby]

Imi please, there are people being protected currently under teh MMMP and there are people who aren't protected at all(recreational and sick people with conditions that don't qualify).  We just choose to give a little for what we got, since it wasn't only people in the MMMP that voted for teh MMMP.  I'm sure there are people who are happy with this laws protections who aren't in the MMMP and we think it will protect them and I also think it will raise the awareness of the corruption and afford more protection to the people in the MMMP.  Please don't try and switch our, at least my, reasons for being pro MiLegalize. 

And facts of what?  That politicians and cops will be politicians and cops?  That MiLegalize has nothing to do with the MMMP except adding people into the boat that can see the corruption?  Is it better than recreational users have now?  I look at it as putting more people on our side and aware, flooding Mi with legality so more people can come out of the shadows and show support.  There are so many reasons that MiLegalize and the Ohio initiative would change the landscape so we can continue the march down the field to what we want.  If none of these pass then Shuette wins by default, it stays just the way he likes it.  It's a differing of opinion on a view of the future, not starry eyed blindness as you say.  I want to see a change before I die, I want to see the flags moved down teh field.  You can speculate all day but if nothing happens then the prohibitionists win.  I'm sorry but I don't see a chance of your vision happening, that's why I choose what I do.  I need to see it move somewhere to believe it can go there.  But from what I've seen it's been going backwards with the MMMP.  I don't think there is near enough momentum to go for a complete decrim unless I at least see positive momentum. But staying in the same place accomplishes nothing and, at this point, seems to be going backwards.  We need more people in the fight.  we need to unite behind something. And I don't see anyone really making any momentum on the decrim front.  How many times do we have to say why we're for it, I mean we're right here in the room and have stated why.  Why can't you accept that we have valid reasons in our eyes?

And you are falling right into the divide and conquer. Legalization IS NOT FOR people in the MMMP, your trying to seperate patients adn caregivers out and say we already have protections, we don't need this.

 

oops looks like I said the same thing more than once, well maybe more than twice.

Edited October 28, 2015 by Norby

[Restorium2]

The worst part about being against what some call legalization, but really is not legalization, is that they use bad information to smear people who have thought things out and understand the lies and half truths. It's really not fair to those like us who are just looking out for all the folks that are not involved enough to understand the issue completely and will fall into terrible traps set up by fake legalization.

 

For example, just one of many;

 

Like they say that everyone will have unlimited moms and clones. Now that is THE whopper wise cracker lie of the year. And when we stand up and show how false that statement is they swoop down and say we are the ones that are not good for the cannabis movement. 

 

It reminds me of when a few prominent posters here wanted people to believe that a caregiver operating totally legally can clear upwards of $50,000 a year from 5 Michigan patients no problem. It's always a bad thing to over sell an idea to get people to buy into it.  

[Restorium2]

Imi please, there are people being protected currently under teh MMMP and there are people who aren't protected at all.  We just choose to give a little for what we got, since it wasn't only people in the MMMP that voted for teh MMMP.  I'm sure there are people who are happy with this laws protections who aren't in the MMMP and we think it will protect them and I also think it will raise the awareness of the corruption and afford more protection to the people in the MMMP.  Please don't try and switch our, at least my, reasons for being pro MiLegalize. 

And facts of what?  That politicians and cops will be politicians and cops?  That MiLegalize has nothing to do with the MMMP except adding people into the boat that can see the corruption?  Is it better than recreational users have now?  I look at it as putting more people on our side and aware, flooding Mi with legality so more people can come out of the shadows and show support.  There are so many reasons that MiLegalize and the Ohio initiative would change the landscape so we can continue the march down the field to what we want.  If none of these pass then Shuette wins by default, it stays just the way he likes it.  It's a differing of opinion on a view of the future, not starry eyed blindness as you say.  I want to see a change before I die, I want to see the flags moved down teh field.  You can speculate all day but if nothing happens then the prohibitionists win.  I'm sorry but I don't see a chance of your vision happening, that's why I choose what I do.  I need to see it move somewhere to believe it can go there.  But from what I've seen it's been going backwards with the MMMP.  I don't think there is near enough momentum to go for a complete decrim unless I at least see positive momentum. But staying in the same place accomplishes nothing and, at this point, seems to be going backwards.  We need more people in the fight.  we need to unite behind something. And I don't see anyone really making any momentum on the decrim front.

 

oops looks like I said the same thing more than once, well maybe more than twice.

Understand that these fake legalization scenarios are folks like Schuette's idea to invent a new type of prohibition that works better than the one they have now. It's so obvious. 

[Norby]

That's not the regulation you are advocating. You are asking for mandatory testing. That's what your form of quasi legalization includes. That's part of accomplishing the monopoly. It's part of the plan you advocate for. 

Ya, ok whatever.  At least get my stance right, I was for mandatory testing for 3rd party sales.  Something that you would've seen a problem with eventually.

Edited October 28, 2015 by Norby

[t-pain]

And MILegalize creates a mound of cash for them to enforce the remaining laws. If you are OK with them continuing to hammer those outside the too-strict rules with a new mound of cash to add to the regular policing and forfeiture cash they have now, since MI Legalize does nothing to eliminate that, you are on the right track.

 

But don't try to pretend it is a good development for cannabis users.

whats your opinion on colorado, oregon, alaska and washington's legalization zap?

 

arrests are way way way down for marijuana growing (well not in washington since there are no home grows allowed there) and possession.

 

i've talked to people who visited colorado on vacation or work and told me that pot is just normal there now. like walking into a starbucks, except you walk in , buy some bud, and walk out with it in a bag. legally.

[Norby]

And MILegalize creates a mound of cash for them to enforce the remaining laws. If you are OK with them continuing to hammer those outside the too-strict rules with a new mound of cash to add to the regular policing and forfeiture cash they have now, since MI Legalize does nothing to eliminate that, you are on the right track.

 

But don't try to pretend it is a good development for cannabis users.

Well, they're doing a great job without it.  change nothing, change nothing.

We can deal with that when we get there, do you have anything else that I'm not aware of to get behind?

I'm sorry if it offends you that I make decisions based on the totality of the situation and have never seen a bill that was perfect for my view.  I'm sorry I won't be obstructionist with you.  I hope your OK with that?

Edited October 28, 2015 by Norby

[Restorium2]

Ya, ok whatever.

You do understand all quasi legalization involves manditory testing right? Not just whatever ....

[Norby]

Different politics. In Washington, Colorado, Alaska, and, Oregon they stopped prosecuting patients and caregivers after the medical marijuana laws passed. I bet arrests there even went down.

 

Our politicians and other public officials in Michigan have shown an incredible willingness to abuse their positions to obstruct this law.

So how is voting against MiLegalize help the corrupt thing? Why not make the citizens aware by PASSING it?  Let them see since they think everything is honky dorey since they passed the MMMP.

Edited October 28, 2015 by Norby

[imiubu]

Understand that these fake legalization scenarios are folks like Schuette's idea to invent a new type of prohibition that works better than the one they have now. It's so obvious. 

 

Bingo.

[Restorium2]

There are still a lot of busts in Colorado and you can still get a whole year in prison for just possessing 33 grams of marijuana. A whole year for doing something we medical people are all used to by now. That's not legalization. That's a trap.

[Restorium2]

So how is voting against MiLegalize help the corrupt thing? Why not make the citizens aware by PASSING it?  Let them see since they think everything is honky dorey since they passed the MMMP.

A year in prison will wake them up right? Maybe there's a better way to understand the danger of a bait and switch legalization then seeing your son or daughter in prison?

[Norby]

YA, and I'm sure that's going over real well with the public if someone spends a year in jail for going 5 gr over.  Do you have a link to that?  You think with all the news on jailing 25% of the worlds prisoners with only having 5% of the worlds people isn't gaining momentum to work right alongside people getting taken in for a few grams over?

 

And do you even realize there will be a WHOLE bunch of people who only get a 1/4 at a time that will be protected or do you just choose to think of them as non-people?

Edited October 28, 2015 by Norby

[Norby]

Bingo.

So don't vote for ANY decrim or legalization law it's all a trap?  Why not get everyone in on it so we aren't the only targets, how is anything to change if people don't know, cause everyone of my wife's friends seems to think you can sell overages to a dispensary and that pot is basically legal, maybe there in lies the problem.

But like I said, change nothing, change nothing, keep it just like shuette wants it, hush hush so the mmmp can be his whipping post.

Edited October 28, 2015 by Norby

[Restorium2]

YA, and I'm sure that's going over real well with the public if someone spends a year in jail for going 5 gr over.  Do you have a link to that?  You think with all the news on jailing 25% of the worlds prisoners with only having 5% of the worlds people isn't gaining momentum to work right alongside people getting taken in for a few grams over?

It's Colorado Law. Just google it. Might be best to understand the laws before you advocate for them. Read it all. 

[Restorium2]

So don't vote for ANY decrim or legalization law it's all a trap?  Why not get everyone in on it so we aren't the only targets, how is anything to change if people don't know, cause everyone of my wife's friends seems to think you can sell overages to a dispensary and that pot is basically legal, maybe there in lies the problem.

But like I said, change nothing, change nothing, keep it just like shuette wants it, hush hush so the mmmp can be his whipping post.

Lies and half truths are the problem. Along with advocates not understanding laws and how they work. Knowledge is key. Seem to think is your problem.

[Norby]

Yes, it get's everyone aware and in the game.  Besides the MMMP is sliding backwards as we speak with these 2 bills that don't look anything like they started.  If you can't dazzle tehm with brilliance overpower them with the masses cause most I talk to think pots pretty much legal.  Maybe you need to talk to more people outside the movement or people who haven't got busted?

[Norby]

It's Colorado Law. Just google it. Might be best to understand the laws before you advocate for them. Read it all. 

No, teh person doing a year in jail for 33 gr?  If you have no link it hasn't happened.  Maybe they got off with a small fine?  Did they go to jail?

[Restorium2]

Yes, it get's everyone aware and in the game.  Besides the MMMP is sliding backwards as we speak with these 2 bills that don't look anything like they started.  If you can't dazzle tehm with brilliance overpower them with the masses cause most I talk to think pots pretty much legal.  Maybe you need to talk to more people outside the movement or people who haven't got busted?

And you just sit there and nod? It's your job to set them straight. I always help people come down to Earth when they are all starry eyed pie in the sky, the kind that puts them in jail. I've seen families broken up with the same kind of folks you describe. If you are going to be a cannabis advocate then get a little more truthy out there. 

[Norby]

Lies and half truths are the problem. Along with advocates not understanding laws and how they work. Knowledge is key. Seem to think is your problem.

So you out telling all these people? Cause I haven't seen you present much except opinion and avenues that don't work.  If everyone would just listen to Resto and vote all teh republicans out or adopt the bill he's written, we'd be fine, or we can wait?  When you gonna be done with that?  Seems to not think seems to be your problem.  How do you propose we get the advertisement needed to get everyone behind us and see how the law is not working, cause I have to tell my patients since some of them don't even know dispensaries are still illegal.  What's your plan?

Edited October 28, 2015 by Norby

[Restorium2]

No, teh person doing a year in jail for 33 gr?  If you have no link it hasn't happened.  Maybe they got off with a small fine?  Did they go to jail?

Maybe pigs have wings too?

[Restorium2]

So you out telling all these people? Cause I haven't seen you present much except opinion and avenues that don't work.  If everyone would just listen to Resto and vote all teh republicans out or adopt the bill he's written, we'd be fine, or we can wait?  When you gonna be done with that?

People get pretty old in my family tree. I'm hopefully about half way done with my journey here. I get around some.