Help Ohio Legalize Marijuana

[Norby]

Why do you want to keep letting people get arrested?  Why not take the step of making over count be a civil fine rather than putting people in jail for just having it on them?

[Restorium2]

Just amend the criminal code. Lower penalties. If you are worried about that then gradually do it. But don't tangle us up with more laws mostly made to make money. They just provide more and more motivation for restriction. Make one guy a millionaire over this and 10,000 more want the same deal. They want dams for money. Bust dams don't build them.

[Restorium2]

Why do you want to keep letting people get arrested?  Why not take the step of making over count be a civil fine rather than putting people in jail for just having it on them?

EXACTLY!!!! Amend the criminal code. BINGO. We don't need any new laws. We need less rules.

[Norby]

Do you understand that passing this Ohio law will make less?  It supercedes throwing people in jail for possessing MJ?  Do you understand that concept?

[Restorium2]

Do you understand that passing this Ohio law will make less?  It supercedes throwing people in jail for possessing MJ?  Do you understand that concept?

Just amend the criminal code. Then crooked politicians can't make anything out of that. It's so simple, like a plant. Beautifully simple.

[Restorium2]

Ya know what I hate? I hate having done the hard work for decades, doing my part in raising marijuana up from the scorched Earth policies of bad information and then having some flashy marijuana newby advocating for new marijuana laws ONLY to make him rich. I'm not pointing any fingers at anyone specifically but we all can see them. It's really sickening to see it. 

[Norby]

lol. Ya, I'm going to get rich from Ohio. If you don't have anything but insults from some twisted understanding you have of me, why bother?  If you have no logical rebuttle to my views why do you have to try and cut down the person who your arguing with?  Says more about you than it does me.

Flashy MJ newbie?  30 years is a newbie to you, you must be a fossil.

So if you are so sage like, what's the plan to move us forward, accept nothing but no taxes and complete decriminalization?

Is that your master plan?  Do nothing till they offer full decrim, cause we've almost got them over the barrel?  What would you say to all the people who get arrested next year for a measly few grams who wouldn't have if it passed?  Sorry, but I have a plan and it doesn't include your right to carry a few grams?  Throw everyone under the bus for your demands?  Wake up.

[Norby]

Just amend the criminal code. Then crooked politicians can't make anything out of that. It's so simple, like a plant. Beautifully simple.

Like they did in A2, Lansing and all the other places, where they usse the state law?  Until it's descheduled they can always use fed law.  So why can politicians touch certain laws and not others? if they can touch the MMMA why couldn't they just write another law?  Does that take away the judges bad decisions?  I may not understand but it doesn't seem that's foolproof to me.

[Restorium2]

All the reasons for the penalties are gone so why are they still there? Because the cops still make money off of them.

 

Now you want to create a new faction that still needs the penalties in place: Greedy sellers who want a monopoly and need restrictions and penalties to funnel people to their stores. 

 

I say just end the penalties because there are no good reasons to have them any more. It's the only thing that makes sense for the marijuana user. Of course you would have to be one to see it. One with no motivation to create a dam for money. 

[Norby]

So now I'm not a "true" MJ user.  Wow.  So obviously still no answer to what you'd say to everyone who get's busted next year because you would smack down this bill?  Only someone so into  themselves would see no use for steps in the meantime.

  I make money Resto. I don't need laws in my favor, I just see truthfully that it's not all about me.  You are the one that just wants to keep giving it to the cops and politicians to continue doing what they're doing.  You're throwing everyone under the bus for your own selfish views of how it "should" be.  Think about others for once instead of the way YOU think it should be done.  Your view is the exact reason why we have gridlock.  Instead of bringing it closer to the middle you'd wait it out.  Sometimes you have to give a little(relax your view) to get a little while never giving up the fight in the courts.  But your way will have it like it is forever.

[t-pain]

20,000+ arrests for marijuana use/possession in michigan in 2014.

 

12,000-19,000 arrests for marijuana use/possession in ohio in 2013

 

have you guys tried gathering signatures for other initatives? its not easy.

[t-pain]

montel tries really hard to get reporters to look up the history of marijuana prohibition, but they dont give a bunny muffin

 

 

[Highlander]

I don't know why some people don't see the writing on the wall if/when we allow big-money to participate in MJ laws.

 

The Ohio ballot initiative is funded by big-money interests who hope to corner the market. 10 companies with exclusive rights to grow and sell MJ = 10 companies who will do what business does - fund lobbies and candidates who will support a quazi-monopoly and do their best to influence candidates they donate to in order to secure corporate interests. If we let a select few corporations corner the MMJ market, we end up funding the very same corporations who will benefit from keeping individual grow rights from common people.

 

Face the reality. If a new law allows a limited number of suppliers, these suppliers' profits are threatened by the potential for people to grow their own....and so these big suppliers will spend a lot of money to keep growing rights out of the hands of the common person.

 

This is elementary capitalistic economics.

[Norby]

Umm, they switched the law already to allow 4 plants(8 weeks of flower = 1 every 2 weeks, unlimited veg means they can be really really big so 4 oz every 2 weeks is avg to lo for what you could do with that) in flower and unlimited in veg for anyone over 21.  I can't go thru 4 oz every 2 weeks recreationally.  I don't know any individual who does.  If the option is there to grow your own how can it be a monopoly or a cartel when you can have 8 oz at home and 1oz on the road of your own home grown?

[orion]

I will repeat this again. Four plants is not enough to make medicine. Is this about getting high? or is it about medicine?

[Highlander]

Umm, they switched the law already to allow 4 plants(8 weeks of flower = 1 every 2 weeks, unlimited veg means they can be really really big so 4 oz every 2 weeks is avg to lo for what you could do with that) in flower and unlimited in veg for anyone over 21.  I can't go thru 4 oz every 2 weeks recreationally.  I don't know any individual who does.  If the option is there to grow your own how can it be a monopoly or a cartel when you can have 8 oz at home and 1oz on the road of your own home grown?

Because ordinary people are limited in what they can grow and are restricted from selling to others. We have seen here in Michigan big money interests making the case to legislators and public opinion that home growers are a danger to themselves and others. Why would it be any different in Ohio? The "big 10" will see home grows as the obvious threat to corporate profits that they are and will react accordingly to protect profits.

 

Ever wonder why ordinary folks can't grow tobacco or produce beer or moonshine for sale to others? It's because big corporations have influenced lawmakers and have been successful in squeezing out not only boutique suppliers but also self-suppliers. A good parallel example was the failure of the Tucker car company, squeezed out of the picture by the big auto companies.

[Highlander]

Umm, they switched the law already to allow 4 plants(8 weeks of flower = 1 every 2 weeks, unlimited veg means they can be really really big so 4 oz every 2 weeks is avg to lo for what you could do with that) in flower and unlimited in veg for anyone over 21.  I can't go thru 4 oz every 2 weeks recreationally.  I don't know any individual who does.  If the option is there to grow your own how can it be a monopoly or a cartel when you can have 8 oz at home and 1oz on the road of your own home grown?

It isn't just about if an individual can do his own thing and opt out of buying from corporations. It's about barriers to the industry.

 

How would you feel if a state passed a law that only ten corporations can make bread, or grow corn, or build houses, change oil, sell groceries, or replace brakes on your car, or provide medical services? but hey, don't worry, if you don't want to to pay one of the chosen 10, you can decide to bake your own bread, grow your own food, build your own house, work on your own car, or get on WebMD and figure out your own medical issues.

 

Government barriers to competition = government sanctioned support for a select few = communism = higher prices and reduced options for citizens.

[+Malamute]

In Michigan the judges ARE elected politicians. Same thing.

 

 Quit voting in republicans and things will get better.

 

Destroy the police unions and things will get better.

[Norby]

I will repeat this again. Four plants is not enough to make medicine. Is this about getting high? or is it about medicine?

It's about getting hi.  Ohio full legalization, which includes a med law I haven't read about yet.

[Norby]

It isn't just about if an individual can do his own thing and opt out of buying from corporations. It's about barriers to the industry.

 

How would you feel if a state passed a law that only ten corporations can make bread, or grow corn, or build houses, change oil, sell groceries, or replace brakes on your car, or provide medical services? but hey, don't worry, if you don't want to to pay one of the chosen 10, you can decide to bake your own bread, grow your own food, build your own house, work on your own car, or get on WebMD and figure out your own medical issues.

 

Government barriers to competition = government sanctioned support for a select few = communism = higher prices and reduced options for citizens.

Great but who is going to take the bill($) to get something to get voted on?  What are you going to say to people who get busted in the meantime because there wasn't legalization and they get busted with 20 plants(4 in flower) which produce 4 oz. a week for them.  i think even cancer treatment would work on 4 oz a week.  say (oops edit) 3 grams of oil per oz that's 12 grams of oil a week or 4 oz to smoke or make medibles, I think the avg joe over 21 could make a medical regimen work with 4 plants in flower.  you don't think that eventually it'll open the flood gates?  When they can go to Mi or Ill or Pa to get some and bring back?  As I said it's all steps, why have so many people get busted under illegality rather than civil fines for going over 1-8 ozs or more than 4 in flower.  Shoot if your wife or husband doesn't smoke you can have 8 in flower and with unlimited veg you could pull down over 8zs a week legally, and carry an oz at a time.  Personally I'd settle for that rather than jail in the meantime.

Edited October 25, 2015 by Norby

[Norby]

For the record I'm with you on treating it like a tomato, but I realize that's a radical view right now and the reason it's made it in most places or will, is that someone put up the money to gather signatures and politicians look at it as a source of income. We aren't at the point for anyplace to take the leap without taxes and do it for the people without a bribe or thru the expensive legal channels.  Every state that makes a step towards total decrim is a step in the right direction.  Till states just see the upside of industry and tourism and just having openly legal industry.  that hasn't happened and won't happen tomorrow.  The key is to keep pushing.  If there were no home grow part I'd be totally against it.  But you know that legally a lot can be produced, esp for recreational users, with a plant coming down every 2 weeks.  The size doesn't matter and they can veg a long time.  To me that would be sweet as a rec user. And probably much more than sufficient for medical use.  I know I don't use 1/2oz a day.

[imiubu]

To slap a dirty bandaid on a festering wound only perpetuates continuing infection.. it does not assist in healing the wound.

 

I hear you Norby... I do but I can no longer agree with the argument that more laws is "the right direction".

 

Look what's happened with our MMMP , that alone should be anyone's clue to how 'legalization' will go in the real world.

Did Prop 1 '08 stop registrants from arrest, prosecution, jail, loosing their children, loss of property? NO, it did not.  How

can any thinking person think that any new laws will stop this abomination against humanity?

 

Once we give them tax an regulate there is no take backs folks.

 

Remove cannabis from the csa and allow sales in an open market as with any other home grown products.

 

/rant

[t-pain]

no offense to anyone, but some of ya'll be arguing in a circular manner.

 

your argument is

we cant do legalization because legislature will mess it up!

 

that is a perfectly understandable opinion to form based on history of the legislature messing up the mmma.

 

2nd argument is

we should do a decrim law.

 

well whats to stop the legislature from messing up the decrim law?

 

legalization vs decriminalization are the same in this regard as both being weak to the legislature's whims.

 

 

 

your next argument is that medical nor legalization laws have kept people out of jail or from being prosecuted. i agree, not everyone has been protected here and in wa/colorado. thousands of people have been protected however , and each one of these laws increases popular opinion about marijuana, thus enabling more support for ballot initatives.

 

think of it this way. if california's medical marijuana law was never voted on, do you think many other states would have done mmj? do you think public opinion of mj would be at 58% and medical mj at 80-90% ?

 

 

i've seen the same arguement from the ohio'ans.

 

"we should wait for 100% decrim!"

 

ok, how long are we gonna wait?

 

 

further, some of you are arguing that everything will be ok if we just vote out the republicans.

while this may be true, there is not one state in this country that managed to get rid of the republicans. unfortunately this strategy, while being a worthy cause, has little chance of succeeding.

 

 

so i want to ask you out there who are against legalization , do you think you could come back here to reality for a minute? do some calculations, some math, some estimations, and maybe some fact finding?

 

 

 

[beourbud]

T.

We the people see how the fknrepublicans poisoned ourLaw, our Heath care system, our economy, our constitution, our military, our environment, the veterans and disabled and women and minorities and education.

 

The repubs don't care about People, they are ALL about Profit...Their Profit

 

We see the greed and hate and prejudice daily from the GOP

 

We will wait as long as it takes until we rid our country and state of these leeches.

.

Join us T. Fight for Complete and total Decrimination. No Crime No Time No Fine

 

No interpretation needed, no one getting raided or their dogs shot or kids traumatized or your house tossed and looted no more court fees or attorney fees no license or testing or intrusive inspections.

 

 

T. What is being proposed is not legalization, it's a scam perpetrated by the same folk who have fought us all the way. They are trying to sell us a bill o goods. Just like they lied about WMD

They promise Utopia and deliver Somalia .

 

We have had to live thru 8 years of bush and another 7 years of his administrations aftermath..

We will wait as long as it takes to purge the toxin that is the GOP

 

We have the best Medical Law in the Country...we are keeping it.

 

The Canadians finally had enough of their conservative party as well. They gave them the boot. As we should have done long ago,

 

Decriminalize completely or conceded its greed.

[trichcycler]

^^^^this !

 

baby steps, or all or nothing?  I voted for our MMMA knowing it didn't change to tomato laws, yet I still have enjoyed fabulous healing all along, as did everyone I ever knew who qualified with LARA. could have cut my nose to spite my face, waited for the tomato laws,  and still been waiting for the healing.