Help Ohio Legalize Marijuana

[t-pain]

mal, i'm out of here as soon as i can get my bunny muffin together. hah good bye michissippi!

 

well, i can hope anyways. might be 5y

[Norby]

Michigan has horrible laws on cottage food industry and such.  Other states are so much better for that issue.

 

Michigan has horrible liquor laws for that matter.

 

Michigan has a lot of horrible laws actually.  WTF am I doing here!?

That's funny, but NY is much worse, for guns, for mj, for taxes, for freedoms, etc.etc.

It's all relative.  I sure wouldn't move to Utah either.

 

It's so funny to hear that though coming here recently from NY.  NY banned sodas over 12 or 16 ozs or something.

Edited October 26, 2015 by Norby

[+Malamute]

I guess what I am saying is, it is very hard to get rid of laws once they pass.  So when you pass something, ya better do a good job of it or decades down the road people will be wondering how come Michigan laws(Ohio in this circumstance) came to be so frelled up.

[Norby]

I don't know if I believe that once things get rolling.  the pendulum is going the other way on that.  It's being proven that the blk market will stay if they charge too much.  Some places will attract illegal producers to their area because cops will "side with the citizens" and want the money to stay in their area.  It won't stand as a law for long or it'll push towards a black mkt of local producers and the tourists will be the only ones going to the stores.  Maybe I'm wrong maybe there's a ton of low volume smokers who wouldn't care if it was "artisan quality" and they were just renting to local growers and keeping the jobs local as landlords instead of "cornering the mkt".  I don't know their expectations but I know the black market has done till now and could still do it if they don't do it right, or people could grow their own.  That's a big qualification esp since it's better than wash, co and whoever they cited in the article.  Anyway it had some good points that other than teh cartel it matched or exceded most laws.

[beourbud]

norby, did you ever think you'd see the day when pot smokers would be against legalization?

Legalization? Please. You mean quasi legalization. Have you dropped the quasi part because it does not fit your narrative?

 

Growing tomatoes is Legal... .What theses Legal Lies are proposing is a windfall for the same bastids that have been opposing us and jailing our youth all along.

 

We are almost eight years into MMJ, We are past the baby step stage.

We have seen how the GOP will do anything to take our law and turnit into there own revenue stream while putting patients and caregivers in jail and robbing them of there possessions.

 

The Solution is VOTE EVERY fknrepublican OUT.

Do it in EVERY election.

I wouldn't Even trust a republican dog catcher, you know they would be screwing your pooch every time You turn around.

 

No .

[Norby]

First off, this is about ohio legalization, second how bout a real way to decriminalization instead of voting the republicans out since we here can't accomplish that and your starting to sound like a broken record, third I'm sorry but you mistake the word legal.  Alcohol is legal though everyone can't sell it, same with tobacco.  Legal does not mean not regulated. 

See you already have a medical law that people voted in here FOR YOU.  They don't.  So back to the topic at hand, Ohio has no medical law and I don't see anything coming down the pipe.  This law would help a LOT of people and give everyone choices.  How could anyone yurn this down with no other options in site.  How could you look at the med patient and say, no I'm sorry, I'm holding out for the pipe dream.  Does anyone really thing decrim is an actual option?  And if so, why.  I'm just starting to wake up to the fact that it's probably not a real option anywhere or possibly anytime, period.  Does anyone think that the gov't would just leave pot alone someday?

[Restorium2]

First off, this is about ohio legalization, second how bout a real way to decriminalization instead of voting the republicans out since we here can't accomplish that and your starting to sound like a broken record, third I'm sorry but you mistake the word legal.  Alcohol is legal though everyone can't sell it, same with tobacco.  Legal does not mean not regulated. 

See you already have a medical law that people voted in here FOR YOU.  They don't.  So back to the topic at hand, Ohio has no medical law and I don't see anything coming down the pipe.  This law would help a LOT of people and give everyone choices.  How could anyone yurn this down with no other options in site.  How could you look at the med patient and say, no I'm sorry, I'm holding out for the pipe dream.  Does anyone really thing decrim is an actual option?  And if so, why.  I'm just starting to wake up to the fact that it's probably not a real option anywhere or possibly anytime, period.  Does anyone think that the gov't would just leave pot alone someday?

Yes, the real way would be to get real and take marihuana out of the criminal codes completely. Then we should be talking about a class action lawsuit including all past users as plaintiffs. That's real. 

[Restorium2]

First off, this is about ohio legalization, second how bout a real way to decriminalization instead of voting the republicans out since we here can't accomplish that and your starting to sound like a broken record, third I'm sorry but you mistake the word legal.  Alcohol is legal though everyone can't sell it, same with tobacco.  Legal does not mean not regulated. 

See you already have a medical law that people voted in here FOR YOU.  They don't.  So back to the topic at hand, Ohio has no medical law and I don't see anything coming down the pipe.  This law would help a LOT of people and give everyone choices.  How could anyone yurn this down with no other options in site.  How could you look at the med patient and say, no I'm sorry, I'm holding out for the pipe dream.  Does anyone really thing decrim is an actual option?  And if so, why.  I'm just starting to wake up to the fact that it's probably not a real option anywhere or possibly anytime, period.  Does anyone think that the gov't would just leave pot alone someday?

Not if you let them make money off it. We were just about to turn a corner then WHAM our own folks help throw up another DAM for us to break. Don't participate in dam building. 

[t-pain]

Legalization? Please. You mean quasi legalization. Have you dropped the quasi part because it does not fit your narrative?

i gave up the "quasi-legalization" term because i hope that everyone knows the terms have been redefined.

 

the terms as reality says they are-are as follows:

 

legalization = limited amounts are allowed to be grown and possessed and traded and bought in stores. stores are legal. bongs are finally legal.

 

decriminalization = limited amounts are allowed to possess in limited circumstances if the police feel like it. bongs are illegal. growing is still felony illegal.

 

neither one removes any penalties from the books. because its still illegal.

 

by "still illegal" ,i mean federally.

federally legal status wont change until more states have legalized. just like prohibition repeal of alcohol. it took a bunch of states before it went "legal" federally.

 

so by waiting and stalling legalization , you are stalling federally legal weed.

 

my only hope is that once ANY VIOLATION is just $100 ticket, the police will move onto other things. much like the drug cartels moved onto other things after finding out legalization was cutting into their brickweed.

 

the police are a lot like a cartel in fact.

[t-pain]

Yes, the real way would be to get real and take marihuana out of the criminal codes completely. Then we should be talking about a class action lawsuit including all past users as plaintiffs. That's real.

can you name me one single example of a law being changed and then a class action lawsuit happening based on past crimes?

 

i was going to say reparations for slavery, but that has always failed in the courts.

[t-pain]

i was going to ask the decrim crowd to start a statewide petition.

but i realize thats way too much work.

 

how about starting a 100% decrim petition for your city? that does not require too many signatures in the smaller towns. it will give you a good idea if it will be possible to pass or fail at the ballot statewide if it passes in your city.

 

yes 14 cities passed it, but 6? did not. so its not a full shoe-in ....

[Restorium2]

can you name me one single example of a law being changed and then a class action lawsuit happening based on past crimes?

 

i was going to say reparations for slavery, but that has always failed in the courts.

Right off the top of my head?

 

The Nuremberg Race Laws and The Reparations for the Halocaust.

[Restorium2]

i was going to ask the decrim crowd to start a statewide petition.

but i realize thats way too much work.

 

how about starting a 100% decrim petition for your city? that does not require too many signatures in the smaller towns. it will give you a good idea if it will be possible to pass or fail at the ballot statewide if it passes in your city.

 

yes 14 cities passed it, but 6? did not. so its not a full shoe-in ....

^^ All figurative. Just take the unfair laws off the books because they have been proven hate based on bad info. If they did it federally then the States could decide for themselves. I believe a lot of states would follow. Then we will have some peace for a change. 

[Restorium2]

What are we going to do if the feds take it off the books but some States are already at the cannabis greed trough with all kinds of rules protecting their cash cow? They wouldn't even want real legalization at that point. 

[outsideinthecold]

A couple thoughts after reading this thread.

 

First, even though overall MI arrests for possession are up fractionally as Mal mentioned, in Berrien County, arguably Michigan's worst county for possession arrests, the actual days spent in the county jail are down significantly. In 2008 sentences totaled over ten-thousand total days in the county jail. The jail itself was always over-capacity.

 

The number of days served since the has dropped dramatically, less than 5000 now. Also the Drug Court customer mix has changed as well. Purely intuitive but I sense a certain reluctance by the PA to purse mmj cases in court, preferring to settle for possession deals in cases that once would have involved multiple felony charges.

 

There have also been similar drops in other cities and counties, especially Grand Rapids.

 

Naturally, some here will find find good reasons to bash Republicans and promote Democrats. Won't bother to argue that point beyond saying it depends on the individual and not the party. However, I would also say neither party has been mmj friendly and Grandholm was governor and the MI AG was a Democrat when the MMJ Act passed and were in control until 2010. Didn't their inaction set the stage for Schuette?

 

Anyway, no one here has ever explained how we can afford the current levels of government spending. When the debt is growing faster than the underlying economy, even without considering the ever larger mountain of unfunded liabilities, how do we avoid bankruptcy?

 

More Syrians? More illegals? More debt-driven spending? Bigger government? Think that will work long term? Then yes, vote Democratic. Hope it works out for all of us as the Republican Party remains the best reason to vote for Democrats.

 

Might even work, as a broke donkey U.S. won't be able to afford Prohibition.

Edited October 26, 2015 by outsideinthecold

[t-pain]

why does michigan have a 50 billion dollar budget for a state with only 10 million people?

[outsideinthecold]

Here's a better question. If the poverty rate for an individual in the U.S. Is $11,000/year, what is the total government spending per individual?

 

In my town it is about like this; Feds, $14,000, State, $5500, City, $2500, and County a bargain at $1000/year.

 

That's right, $23,000 per year. Twice the poverty level for an individual.

 

So what is the national GDP per year? $46,000 per year. Government spending at half GDP. Eat yourheart out Sweden.

 

And in spite of this, some still want more spending while wondering why the ten trillion in new debt since 2008 hasn't created more GDP growth.

 

And if that isn't enough to concern every stakeholder in the good, old U Sof A, ask yourself what will happen to our economy if the dollar no longer rules as the world's reserve currency.

 

Of course, that can't happen, can it? Well if you haven't been following the recent IMF moves to include the Yuan, the Pound, and the Euro in international settlements and what future that portends for us all, then by all means vote for bigger government and more taxes.

 

At least we can always blame Bush and the Republicans. And believe if only the Democrats had control like 2008-2010, everything would have been peachy.

Edited October 26, 2015 by outsideinthecold

[t-pain]

I don't remember any changes to the act in 08 to 10 ...

[bobandtorey]

Mickcal  Cox was on his way out we all went to Lansing and had a rally to ask him to talk to us he never did but when he left he open up a Law firm and took a few  MMJ cases  but lost them in Court What a Surprise 

[Norby]

Not if you let them make money off it. We were just about to turn a corner then WHAM our own folks help throw up another DAM for us to break. Don't participate in dam building. 

I don't, I look at a few things.  Does it help people now from getting arrested AND for people who are sick?  Is there anything else coming down teh pipe or any options there now?  Does it allow people to grow their own?  How does it match up to the other laws out there?  Are tehre any billionaires just wanting to fund an initiative(we'll run out of them sooner or later)? Will people be able to help others with much less scrutiny?  The last thing I look at is retail taxes, who's selling it, etc. I leave that to the greedy. It doesn't matter to me WHO sells it at storefronts, that will work itself out with the black mkt.  I'm about breaking down walls for individuals and sick people to be able to take care of themselves NOW, people don't have that long on this earth to hold their breath and wait for the perfect wave.  Esp. if it's only an ideal and not real.

[Norby]

holding out for decriminalization, in the minds of sick people and parents of sick kids, could be construed the same as Chris Christies refusal to look into MJ legalization and med MJ when teh father of that poor girl who died from seizures cornered him in the diner and confronted him.  I'm not saying I look at it that way but it could be looked at in that way.  Not voting yes on this law in Ohio is really pushing back the options for a lot of sick people there.

[beourbud]

i gave up the "quasi-legalization" term because i hope that everyone knows the terms have been redefined.the terms as reality says they are-are as follows:legalization = limited amounts are allowed to be grown and possessed and traded and bought in stores. stores are legal. bongs are finally legal.decriminalization = limited amounts are allowed to possess in limited circumstances if the police feel like it. bongs are illegal. growing is still felony illegal.neither one removes any penalties from the books. because its still illegal.by "still illegal" ,i mean federally.federally legal status wont change until more states have legalized. just like prohibition repeal of alcohol. it took a bunch of states before it went "legal" federally.so by waiting and stalling legalization , you are stalling federally legal weed.my only hope is that once ANY VIOLATION is just $100 ticket, the police will move onto other things. much like the drug cartels moved onto other things after finding out legalization was cutting into their brickweed.the police are a lot like a cartel in fact.

One problem is the Prohibitionists have redefined the words.

The Reality is ,we the people know it.

In the real world We the People are Fighting to make Cannabis as Legal as a Tomato.

In the real world Decriminalization is the removal from the criminal code.

So there you have it, your redefined version and Our Real world definitions.

Get familiar with them your going to hear a lot more of them.

 

We the People Voted for our MMJ law. We don't need to start another petition. If complete decriminalization had been an option we would have voted for that. The Voters made it clear Medical Marijuanna was the priority not recreational.

We have been battling the GOP legislature leo and courts ever since. Fighting to keep our kids out of jail or being fined to death, Fighting from being raided or inspected. Fighting to grow a plant.

 

Talk about a broken record, how about tha" it will never happen" loser chant?

This is what the Prohibitionists said in 2007

They were wrong to.

The Solution is simple, Remove Cannabis from the state criminal code.

Free the Weed, Anything else is just legal lies.

 

Btw. Why did Decriminalization need redefine anyway? Who decided it need change?

What word would then describe the process of removing cannabis from the criminal code?

You know the cartels have power when the can usurp the language....lol

 

How bout Legal, Legal =. Decriminalized, like a tomato

 

If you want to claim legalization than we are going to have to compare cannabis to tomatoes.

 

Otherwise We the People are on to the Lies

 

Free the Weed or concede its greed.

[t-pain]

i agree with you beourbud.

 

so start a city wide petition to remove all penalties for cannabis. i'll support it, i'll gather signatures for it, i'll donate to it.

 

lets do it instead of talking about it! you first.

[Norby]

And as soon as it passes the local legislatures will move to regulate it like they have done the dispensaries in each town.  If people were selling tomatoes as much as people would be selling pot they'd move to regulate that too.  Like the grocery stores are. 

 

So do you expect to have it sold at every grocery store? Anyone can import and export and grow as much as they want?  Corporations can start growing hemp and mj as far as the eye can see and in underground mines and sell it at walgreens?  Genetically modifying it, spraying it with pesticides and selling it to the public real cheap, destroying the artisans.  Can anyone under 18 buy these tomatoes?  It's nice to go for an ideal but you have to watch what you wish for.  It's best to get a real idea of what it would look like.

[beourbud]

And as soon as it passes the local legislatures will move to regulate it like they have done the dispensaries in each town.  If people were selling tomatoes as much as people would be selling pot they'd move to regulate that too.  Like the grocery stores are. 

 

So do you expect to have it sold at every grocery store? Anyone can import and export and grow as much as they want?  Corporations can start growing hemp and mj as far as the eye can see and in underground mines and sell it at walgreens?  Genetically modifying it, spraying it with pesticides and selling it to the public real cheap, destroying the artisans.  Can anyone under 18 buy these tomatoes?  It's nice to go for an ideal but you have to watch what you wish for.  It's best to get a real idea of what it would look like.

First off, There is not a bill proposed worth voting for. THE MMMP is working. It's the repub leadership, Leo , courts and cartels that are trying to sabotage it.

If you want progress Vote them out.

 

I hate to break the news to you but the cartels have been and will continue tprovide MJ to anyone who has the cash. As a matter of fact I knew of many youth in the D getting the best MJ from the Connors police station. Fellow classmates would brag about there older brothers and fathers on the force selling. Shake down weed. So the corruption is already rooted in Leo.

 

Alcohol is still killing thousands of kids each year. Cannabis. Zero. If your so worried about youth address that.

 

Cannabis was a large part of our economy before prohibition. It WILL be again. Despite antis like yourself, shilling for your cartel.

 

I would posit that you and your ilk are what is keeping MJ from becoming LEGAL

You are the problem.

 

The democrats are for Decriminalization. The GOP has demonstrated there enmity towards We the People and MJ

 

The Solution is to Vote every republican out of office.

 

This is what it is going to take for progress and We the People are willing to sacrifice, wait and fight for the right to grow MJ. As legal as a tomato.

 

We will do whatever it takes to fight the greedy cartels you represent.

 

Free the Weed or concede its greed.