Open Discussion With Potential New Patients Is Harder Than I Anticipated

[Restorium2]

Grass, I think you missed something.  Resto said " What I was saying is that they don't clearly say to send in a picture of the caregiver's drivers license on a renewal. They just say to send in A PICTURE OF THE DRIVERS LICENSE.

 

When I sent in my last three CG renewals for existing patients getting re-certified, I didn't send in a copy of my DL and had no issues.  Same goes for my renewals for asbestos and lead inspector cards.  No need to send a copy of my DL because the copy LARA already had was still valid.  Might not work for everyone.

Right. I tried very hard to explain myself. I thought it was clear. Then he asks me what I'm smoking. Like I'm a smoked up idiot. 

 

awesome meds there resto ! care to share strain?

I'm always curious to know what people are using at the time of their postings. thought it would be neat to know the strain in the sig each time.

[Restorium2]

I think it is case by case.  Surprisingly, I've actually had some good reports about Bayonet telling people what they need to fix and giving them time to fix it without hauling them in.  It has to do with the individual LEO, the caregiver, and the attitude of the department.

 

Folks didn't like what I said about caregivers and being prepared- I can respect that.  But know that I have been in the cases, many of those complaining the loudest have not.  Do as you wish, but at least see where I am coming from and keep it in the back of your head.

 

Dr. Bob

I find that hard to believe while this is going on right now;

 

BAY CITY, MI — A Bangor Township couple is facing felony charges due to police alleging they ran a large scale illegal medical marijuana operation.

Sandra K. Dabrowski, 63, and David A. Dabrowski, 64, are both charged with delivering or manufacturing marijuana. The charge is a four-year felony.

According to court records contained in police reports, the Bay Area Narcotics Enforcement Team — or BAYANET — received a tip via CrimeStoppers that the Dabrowskis were running an illegal marijuana operation out of their home in the 2900 block of Bangor Road. The tipster estimated there were about 100 plants, according to court records.

On April 27, a deputy with BAYANET conducted a trash pull from the Dabrowski's residence and recovered two suspected pot plants and about 4,297.8 grams of trimmed plant and stem material, court records show. The next day, BAYANET and officers from the Bay City Department of Public Safety's VIPER Unit executed a search warrant on the couple's home.

The officers found 96 plants on the property, as well as 11 Mason jars containing marijuana oil. One room had a basket with 37.7 grams of loose marijuana and 10 containers filled with about 1,400 grams of processed pot, court records show.

Police read both David and Sandra Dabrowski their Miranda rights, and both agreed to be interviewed. David Dabrowski said he and his wife are both licensed medical marijuana caregivers with the maximum allowable five patients, according to court records. He added his wife is a patient herself, court records show.

Under the state's Medical Marihuana Act, patients can have 2.5 ounces of usable marijuana and caregivers can grow up to 12 plants producing 2.5 ounces of usable marijuana for each of their five patients and themselves. Police informed David Dabrowski that he and his wife could legally have 132 plants between them and a maximum 27.5 ounces of processed marijuana, though police estimated they had three times the amount of the latter, according to court records.

"When I asked David to explain why they had so much processed marijuana, he advised that he didn't understand the marijuana act and how it describes 'processed marijuana,' " the interviewing officer wrote in his report contained in court records. "He stated that a dispensary had told them marijuana becomes 'processed marijuana' when it is done drying out, has been trimmed, and packaged for delivery."

David Dabrowski went on to say he farms and cares for the plants, while his wife handles the trimming, packaging, and distribution end, adding he knew it was illegal to divvy up responsibilities this way, court records show. When asked about the marijuana oil, he said he makes medibles out of it, court records show.

David Dabrowski went on to say they also supply pot to fewer than five people who aren't their patients, but that they have their medical marijuana cards. He said he charges one of his patients $130 an ounce and everyone else $200 an ounce, court records show. He said he is retired from General Motors and makes $3,000 per month from his pension, while his wife is on disability and receives $2,700 per month, court records state.

Sandra Dabrowski told police much the same story as her husband. She declined to comment when police asked about providing marijuana to non-patients, court records show.

Authorities issued warrants for the Dabrowskis on Sept. 9. They voluntarily appeared for arraignment in Bay County District Court two days later.

They are to appear for a preliminary examination before District Judge Timothy J. Kelly at 2 p.m. on Tuesday, Nov. 24.

 

http://www.mlive.com...ged_with_1.html

[Dr. Bob]

Agree, please read the rest of my post Resto-  I said something to the effect it is case by case.  I could put up some caregivers that were let go with minor issues that may have resulted in charges.  Don't interpret that as meaning they don't do any enforcement, or that I approve of ANY enforcement.  The point I am making is that some areas are getting more hit and miss rather than constant hassle of everyone.

 

Dr. Bob

[Dr. Bob]

Let's take it a bit farther Resto-  My position is that the majority of these 'drug task forces' spend an excessive amount of claiming they are going after meth and heroin, but when you look at the numbers 70-80% or MORE of their activities involved marijuana.  I personally would support the disbandment of any 'drug task force' that spends more than 40-50% of their time on medical marijuana rather than going after real drug problems.  I think very few would survive that level of focus on what they claim they exist to do.

 

I would also support that any seizure of assets go to the community, not the department.  If the police get to keep that money, they become self funding without the check and balance of their units of government.  

 

Dr. Bob

[Restorium2]

Until you can put up something positive people can hang their hat on I wouldn't pat these guys on the back. You have vague anecdotal stuff that we have no way to confirm.

 

They are sneaking up on people with warrants they get from bribing the trash man to tell when some unusable is in there. 

 

I can't really believe they are helping people conform when I see exactly what they say they really are doing.

[Restorium2]

What Dr. Bob says;

 

Surprisingly, I've actually had some good reports about Bayonet telling people what they need to fix and giving them time to fix it without hauling them in.

 

 

VS> REALITY:

 

 

Sandra K. Dabrowski, 63, and David A. Dabrowski, 64, are both charged with delivering or manufacturing marijuana. The charge is a four-year felony.

According to court records contained in police reports, the Bay Area Narcotics Enforcement Team — or BAYANET — received a tip via CrimeStoppers that the Dabrowskis were running an illegal marijuana operation out of their home in the 2900 block of Bangor Road. The tipster estimated there were about 100 plants, according to court records.

On April 27, a deputy with BAYANET conducted a trash pull from the Dabrowski's residence and recovered two suspected pot plants and about 4,297.8 grams of trimmed plant and stem material, court records show. The next day, BAYANET and officers from the Bay City Department of Public Safety's VIPER Unit executed a search warrant on the couple's home.

[Dr. Bob]

Your points in Capital, Bold and Increase Font Size are clearly noted.  Perhaps, you missed my non-screaming statement that I supported the disbanding of all these units.

 

Dr. Bob

Edited March 21, 2016 by Dr. Bob

[imiubu]

I don't view it as screaming but rather bold emphasis.

[Restorium2]

Your points in Capital, Bold and Increase Font Size are clearly noted.  Perhaps, you missed my non-screaming statement that I supported the disbanding of all these units.

 

Dr. Bob

I'll see you at their court date. You can explain to them why BAYANET didn't help them out with compliance and decided they needed felony charges instead. Until then you would serve us better by telling people what really is happening. Maybe then they can have their guard up when the cops come around. It's not so warm and fuzzy around BAYANET.

[Restorium2]

I don't view it as screaming but rather bold emphasis.

Thank you. I thought he would just read the subject matter and reply instead of discrediting the messenger. 

[Restorium2]

This was actually offensive to me when I know they bribe the trash guy so they can sneak up on caregivers to catch them out of compliance;

 

What Dr. Bob says;

 

Surprisingly, I've actually had some good reports about Bayonet telling people what they need to fix and giving them time to fix it without hauling them in.

[Restorium2]

Rule number 1 for disbanding drug task forces;

 

If you actually want a task force disbanded then you don't say anything positive about them in public.

[Jjamh]

So, basically everything they were doing was against the law, what's your point? I feel for the people but c'mon,

[imiubu]

Thank you. I thought he would just read the subject matter and reply instead of discrediting the messenger. 

 

Standard modus operandi for bob unfortunately.

[mrdookie]

Putting anything cannabis related into the trash is a major problem, and thats how the pigs got a warrant for me in 2009 out of state.  I got stupid and slacked one time while they (without my knowledge) had their eyes on me.   They grabbed my trash and boom, warrant issued.  Always be extra vigilant with trash.

[imiubu]

Putting anything cannabis related into the trash is a major problem, and thats how the pigs got a warrant for me in 2009 out of state.  I got stupid and slacked one time while they (without my knowledge) had their eyes on me.   They grabbed my trash and boom, warrant issued.  Always be extra vigilant with trash.

 

Thank you for sharing and welcome to the site

[trichcycler]

So, basically everything they were doing was against the law, what's your point? I feel for the people but c'mon,

or:

the police lied

the author of the article lied

 

 

[Restorium2]

So, basically everything they were doing was against the law, what's your point? I feel for the people but c'mon,

Everything they were doing? You don't really believe in the MMMA then?

 

There are dispensaries doing what they were doing and they get a warning.

 

Dr. Bob says that the task force that took them down helps them conform before they arrest them.

 

I don't believe they had a warning or any friendly advice to help them out.

 

That was my point. 

[trichcycler]

nah, they knew the score, assuming the article is factual. everyone should. medical marijuana is not for everyone we've learned. Thanks Cheech!! (already defined)

[Dr. Bob]

Everything they were doing? You don't really believe in the MMMA then?

 

There are dispensaries doing what they were doing and they get a warning.

 

Dr. Bob says that the task force that took them down helps them conform before they arrest them.

 

I don't believe they had a warning or any friendly advice to help them out.

 

That was my point. 

 

You may disagree, but don't misquote me or put words in my mouth.  I responded to a question about this, and stated, very clearly, that I have had some experience with them warning a caregiver to correct a minor problem.  Your efforts to turn this into me supporting or agreeing with them are not accurate.

 

Dr. Bob

[phaquetoo]

I have a burn pit, and I also have a leaf burner, it is an aluminum or metal trash can with a bunch of holes drilled in it and on stands so you can burn things, leaves, leaves, twigs, sticks, stems!  why on earth would anyone put anything mm in the trash at the road,,,I didnt have trash pick up untill a few months ago, so I would take some things to the dump, and at that dump i put my trash in the trash compactor, and anything that had any unusable mj things in it did not have any other house trash in it. like mail or anything with my name or adress on it!

 

Peace

[Jjamh]

Everything they were doing? You don't really believe in the MMMA then?

 

There are dispensaries doing what they were doing and they get a warning.

 

Dr. Bob says that the task force that took them down helps them conform before they arrest them.

 

I don't believe they had a warning or any friendly advice to help them out.

 

That was my point.

[Jjamh]

I fully believe in the mmma and I believe we must stay within the law as it is, no matter how much it sucks, until we can get it to change. This article is full of violations openly admitted by the guy.

[GregS]

A caregiver only needs to know that I have a valid card, and any medical information that I care to divulge for treating my condition. The relationship that I have with my certifying doctor really isn't their business and I would personally pass on a caregiver that insisted that I have a followup with said doctor.

 

I am sitting here scratching my head after talking on the phone with a potential new patient that was looking for a caregiver. This is the third time I have had people say something to the effect that I am making this harder than it has to be.  No wonder most of you deal with close friends and family for your patients. I think I am ready to just call it quits as people astonish me with their lack of regard for the legalities on this patient to caregiver relationship.  Can you all give me a way to have a good discussion with a potential new patient?  What are some good questions to lead with? I start out asking about what  their medical needs are and confirm they do in fact have a MMMJ card. Then I try to touch on a bonafide relationship with their Dr. ..as in a follow up at least once ( in regards to making sure that their card is upheld/ validated in court if any problem arises) and that is where people seem to think i am 

a nit picker.... maybe i am not explaining myself in a concise follow along manner......but people dont get where I am going and when I say it could be the difference between me going to jail or not they say something to the effect that I  am worrying more than i should or overthinking, complicating matters which are simple. Are patients not educated? I am just disheartened.  Any suggestions? As with anything I know you should start light and move gradually into more intense questioning/discussions.....how do I have a productive discussion? Thank you. 

Telling patients that you need copies of their paperwork, card, and drivers' license for your files is something I have found patients agreeable enough to. With those, you should have all you need.

Edited March 21, 2016 by GregS

[Alphawolf]

I have been a CG for 7 years with 5 patients.This is what I think my obligation is to them.First to supply them with the best clean chemical free meds. So with a new patient I GIVE him a sample of all that I grow, most of the time its 5 or 6 types.Then I tell them how and what my patients are using.I also give them a print out of what to do if your busted,what the laws are,and what not to do.Then its my rules,if everyone is happy we sign the paper work together,I write the check from my checkbook and I take the paperwork to the post office and is sent out certified.A copy is kept in my records and a copy sent home to the patient,till the new card is sent to them.I also have them sign a caregiver change form and then keep it my my records,just in case I feel the need to drop the patient for some reason.I dont need 60 plants to furnish my patients with enough meds so my numbers are never a factor if we get a rejection for some reason. I have a waiting list of folks that want me for a caregiver.This might sound like Im being an donkey rectum but think about this,its my farm if one patient screws up and Im over my numbers or I sell to a patient that has lost his card for any reason,I go to jail not them.All of my patients like the idea that I do all the leg work and make sure its all right when its sent in.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 I tell them how Im  a pancreatic cancer survivor and how Rick Simpson oil helped me,so I stay on top of everything medical.I also make available to them many CBD products such as vape oils CBD salves and rubs. CBD tinctures.

                               Alphawolf