Does This Seem Fishy To Anyone Else?

[+420Atheist]

I like the sentiment that they use what they use. However I can see the concern of something they do comes back on you as the caregiver. I also understand the feeling of being taken advantage of if you are selling to a patient for under cost because the patient is in need and does not have the funds but then the patient is using your efforts as a profit center for himself. These are worthwhile discussions.

 

To me the model that some CGs have adapted of giving the first oz per month free then the rest at normal retail prices seems a reasonable compromise.

[pergamum362]

If all of a sudden his usage doubles, well you give hime the normal price for his normal amount and market value after that.Noboby just doubles there usage over night.I have more than one patient who uses a qp or more a month, they bake and make tinctures with it.Thats good enough for me...ofcoarse im not giving it away to them for free either, I do however have two patients who do get it for "free", I deliver it, and they pay for my gas, ofcoarse there usage is about an ounce a month, so I Know they are using it for there own health benefits.Now if it ever occured that they doubled there usage over night, I would know something is up and there would be compensation.I have had two of my friends have patients that gave a sob story bla bla to get cheap, I mean CHEAP meds(experienced quality cultivated meds),only to find out in the end, due to tempers flaring and arguments because of a bad crop, that they need the meds to pay for this or pay for that.Really not cool.Dont take advantage of the few compassionate people out here.

[tooldini]

Why should anyone have to worry about that. Isn't the patient the one that would get into troulbe? How could it be your concern if they are reselling. You cannot be a baby sitter as well as a caregiver helping with pain management, etc. I would not like it if they were reselling but it doesn't seem like I a caregiver should get in trouble.

[Dubliner]

My personal take on the matter is ,

 

In this or other similar situations I think Ti's time for both parties to sit down and have a Come to Jesus Meeting . Obviously the terms of the original agreement were changed & you need to find out further information . I see the concerns you have and further information and clarification from your patient is needed so you know what is what.

 

The Caregiver & Patient enter into a Fiduciary Agreement of sorts so this being a joint venture

" possible pun intended " Both parties need to be on The Same Page and well informed of alterations of the original agreement .

 

Each Caregiver/Patient situation is unique and may not be the same with other patients due to whatever the reason . This is My Tuppence on the matter . Good Luck ,,,

[tooldini]

Pergamum that is messed up and that would really make me angry.

[+RevThad]

Why should anyone have to worry about that. Isn't the patient the one that would get into troulbe? How could it be your concern if they are reselling. You cannot be a baby sitter as well as a caregiver helping with pain management, etc. I would not like it if they were reselling but it doesn't seem like I a caregiver should get in trouble.

The one concern a cg could have, is if the patient loses their card, so does the cg. Which could potentially open the cg up to some sort of legal trouble, with plant counts and medicine quantities...

[+420Atheist]

The one concern a cg could have, is if the patient loses their card, so does the cg. Which could potentially open the cg up to some sort of legal trouble, with plant counts and medicine quantities...

 

I would also think a unscrupulous prosecutor might try to make the case that the caregiver should have known that the patient was not using all the meds he was supplying therefor was part of the conspiracy to deliver. We can discuss all day what that amount is but in the end it does not matter what we think the correct amount is but what a prosecutor can convince a judge and jury. If you can show records of a consistent delivery (be it an oz a week or an oz a month) then it will be hard to make a case that anything was out of the ordinary. But if it is two oz this week and one the next and three the next that is pretty obvious what is going on and it will be to a jury too.

[+RevThad]

Brother, I was talking about the one thing we all agree upon. No CG card no immunity for holding plants and medicine. If the patient lost their card, the CG would be stuck with no card but all of the illicit stuff...

 

I wasn't even gonna get into the debate about the charges related to some sort of conspiracy to distribute...

[V420]

i would just sit down with him point blank and discuss it.one guy isn't worth it.

 

but on the lighter side...when tommy chong was asked "how many joints are in a lid?

 

he answered "2,i roll big joints!"

[mibrains]

does the mma have some sort of generic contract anywhere? perhaps a limited agreement type deal that could be downloaded and used as a tool?

does anybody as a caregiver, use written agreements? or just verbal?

[kruztydj]

I have all my patients sign contracts for my services. I dont give free meds to anyone either as I dont have to beg folks to use my services or my meds. I just keep my prices low and meds outstanding and eveyones happy.I've always thought folks that have to give free meds to patients are just after plant counts and wanting patients so they can grow more. Most times it's for growing more for the streets. Not always but most times thats the reason. Same with the guy taking more all of a sudden. It's turned to cash very easily...............

[AmberTrichomes]

8-12 grams per day here. maybe he's getting a immunity like me??

I consider myself a pretty heavy smoker and I go through about 2 grams a day, not counting hash. That's a half a week/2oz a month, I can't imagine even trying to smoke twice as much as I do now.

 

The red flag to me is the sudden change in the amount. Once your tolerance is up, you know roughly what you need. Going from 1 oz a month to 4x that is a big red flag, at least imo.

[AmberTrichomes]

making a mountain out of a molehill. wow this sounds like how the cops try to put 2+2 together. BUT if you provide by law under 2.5 oz. you have not broke the law. What THEY do with it is them, and THEIR charge. If you deal with people you do not trust your NUTS!! Other than that, don't FREAK out cause someone is enjoying your meds!!! You are as safe as you were before you had that thought. If they wanted to put a wrinkle in your world, they would....Just dont be aass and ask for it.

Why should anyone have to worry about that. Isn't the patient the one that would get into troulbe? How could it be your concern if they are reselling. You cannot be a baby sitter as well as a caregiver helping with pain management, etc. I would not like it if they were reselling but it doesn't seem like I a caregiver should get in trouble.

[phaquetoo]

What do you think? Have you heard of the "reasonable man" standard? Would a reasonably prudent man have reason to believe he is selling it?

 

The important question is not what we think, but how a prosecutor will likely answer the above questions. I'll give you three guesses and the last two don't count. What you have is either a guy trafficking or a cop setting you up. Be smart and limit your patients to Oz a month.

 

Should you be charged, the prosecutor will argue that a QP a month is clearly beyond personal MMJ use and that you have constructive knowledge of his trafficking. I'd hate to be in your shoes in that situation. Tell him you can only do 1OZ per person per month.

 

 

well here goes!

If i had a patient who doubled or trippled their amounts they want each time, I would not care, I am only letting a patient have 2.5zips each visit, I know nothing of his personal life nor need to other than to know they are legal and have a card, I would only give them the price agreed on for the amount agreed on, if they want more it will cost more, You dont realy know what the patient is doing with the mm, and to tell you the truth i dont realy care, as long as i am helping the pt with their ailments, that is all that matters to me, and that I keep a constant supply for the pt. I dont believe the law says anything about not being able to use more than 2.5 a month, 2.5 is all a pt, with a c.g who has possesion of pt plant can have, if they happen to accidently dump to much in the brownie mix and have to come back to me later for more,,who cares? I will follow the law, and I will always think my pt does also!

 

Peace

FTW

Jim

 

(dont ask dont tell)

[Otsego County Caregiver]

Good post phaq.

 

A word to the wise:

 

Mind your own frggin business. I think most cgs take appropriate steps to keep their meds off the street like limiting quantiies, requesting more compensation for inordinate amounts, etc.

 

Being a good caregiver isn't for sissies. If you can't deal with other humans and their idividual quirks and needs, maybe caregiving isn't for you.

[mizerman]

What seems fishy to me is that you are "playing doctor".

 

When I was able to COMPLETELY eliminate all prescription medications, it took me 2 ozs a month to accomplish that.

 

This is what is wrong with the patient/caregiver relationship. I view marijuana as a medicine and looked at my "caregiver" as a pharmacy.

 

 

Mizerman

[MellowFellow]

Is this person employed or are they very ill and can't work? I ask because if someone is sick and home all the time their consumption could be huge.

[+RevThad]

does the mma have some sort of generic contract anywhere? perhaps a limited agreement type deal that could be downloaded and used as a tool?

does anybody as a caregiver, use written agreements? or just verbal?

Here is one that is on the MMMA website, it probably should just be used as an example...

 

http://michiganmedicalmarijuana.org/ccs_files/downloads/PatientCaregiverAgreement.pdf

[lkline300]

Increase in usage can mean many things. Oil or hash and medibles would easily account for this.

 

As long as their not using more than their plants provide, there's no problem IMO.

 

Acting on assumptions , not always a good idea...

 

But like was said you need to know your patients well enough not to have to worry about such things.

[AmberTrichomes]

Words of wisdom!

well here goes!

If i had a patient who doubled or trippled their amounts they want each time, I would not care, I am only letting a patient have 2.5zips each visit, I know nothing of his personal life nor need to other than to know they are legal and have a card, I would only give them the price agreed on for the amount agreed on, if they want more it will cost more, You dont realy know what the patient is doing with the mm, and to tell you the truth i dont realy care, as long as i am helping the pt with their ailments, that is all that matters to me, and that I keep a constant supply for the pt. I dont believe the law says anything about not being able to use more than 2.5 a month, 2.5 is all a pt, with a c.g who has possesion of pt plant can have, if they happen to accidently dump to much in the brownie mix and have to come back to me later for more,,who cares? I will follow the law, and I will always think my pt does also!

 

Peace

FTW

Jim

 

(dont ask dont tell)

[+420Atheist]

(dont ask dont tell)

 

And how well has that been working for gays in the military? It will protect you about as well from what the PA could argue was a conspiracy to distribute. If every Friday a patient stops over and gets 2.5zips three times in a 6 hour period do you really think you can argue you figured he was using it? Certainly there is some extreme where you can say you knew the patient was not acquiring it for themselves?

 

Also for those who say CGs are playing doctor by limiting meds let me ask you this. How many of your prescriptions can you go to the pharmacy and get unlimited refills as often as you like?

 

Heck I don't care supply all you want to your patients. I'm only suggesting that discretion may be the better part of valor.

[Highlander]

I wish people would quit using traditional stoner consumption patterns to gauge a medical patient. The law allows for 12 plants per patient. That's a lot of product - easily an ounce a week for an average grower. The voters have given us the option of using the fruits of all 12 plants.

 

How many patients or CGs out there are really maximizing the medical benefits here? I have patients who use fresh leaf in salads and who consume bud without decarboxylizing it...so they get a good dose of the good medicinal compounds WITHOUT THE HIGH.

 

We need to break out of the mold of assuming that 4 0z/month is a $1000 habit and that all cannabis use = getting high. Only then will we realize that a patient can consume the yields of 12 plants in pepetual harvest in a non-recreational scenario.

 

It really frustrates me that people can't see this as obvious - that it isn't the default way of thinking.

 

Anoyone out there who would judge that somehow an ounce/week MUST be too much for any one person doesn't have any business pretending like they are a "real" medical patient or a caregiver. I would generally believe that anyone thinking along these lines is stuck in a stoner mentality.

[freakydawg420]

I also like the taste of the raw leaf material. And from what I read, it is very good for you. I have never tried an actual salad, but I will in the future, you can count on it

[+RevThad]

I also like the taste of the raw leaf material. And from what I read, it is very good for you. I have never tried an actual salad, but I will in the future, you can count on it

Tossed in a nice light oil and vinegar dressing with some hemp seeds... very tasty.

[Highlander]

I also like the taste of the raw leaf material. And from what I read, it is very good for you. I have never tried an actual salad, but I will in the future, you can count on it

 

When I top my plants, I eat the freshly-cut leaf on the spot.