Hello And Welcome Back!

[Al Frankenstein]

I, myself, posted several such warnings only to have posts deleted. I saw posts deleted with this sort of content. When I confronted your father via email about this issue, he mocked me.

 

This really needs to be emphasized. Joe Cain encouraged thousands of people to act in a way that is contrary to what was found to be legal in the McQueen ruling, and he summarily deleted advice warning against these actions. As a result, people made bad decisions and are facing felony charges.

 

It's that simple.

[purklize]

Let me put it this way. Many people tried to warn folks on the MMMA that transferring marijuana to people you’re not connected to through the registry is a grey area at best and more likely than not will be found to be unprotected under the act. I, myself, posted several such warnings only to have posts deleted. I saw posts deleted with this sort of content. When I confronted your father via email about this issue, he mocked me.

 

Think about that – the MMMA.org had an active dispensary thread and an active p2p transfer thread…many of us tried to caution the 3ma.org membership that such activities were risky, and that a Section 8 defense was not a reasonable safety net.

 

This boils down to: There was a lot of advice posted on the mmma.org to be cautious of liberal transfers. Those who posted this got banned. Posts encouraging caution were banned. The McQueen ruling underscored the need to be cautious with transfers. Even after that, the mmma.org banned people who advised caution and again deleted posts discussing this.

 

Given by the nature of deleted posts, I may be mistaken, but were these posts worded along the lines of "transfers are illegal" than "the courts may misinterpret the law to find transfers illegal"? I've warned people countless times about these issues on this site, and expressed concern over the safety of the farmer's market model - I agree that they should be legal, but I worry the courts will legislate from the bench - and I have never had a single post of mine deleted. 800+ posts and not one gone... that's just been my experience...

[Franklin]

I have removed the banfilters and all previously banned users. Welcome back to the MMMA!

IF this is true , I can log in under my old screen name with my old password . I have YET to be able to log in .

[restlesslegs]

Given by the nature of deleted posts, I may be mistaken, but were these posts worded along the lines of "transfers are illegal" than "the courts may misinterpret the law to find transfers illegal"? I've warned people countless times about these issues on this site, and expressed concern over the safety of the farmer's market model - I agree that they should be legal, but I worry the courts will legislate from the bench - and I have never had a single post of mine deleted. 800+ posts and not one gone... that's just been my experience...

I've seen post deleted but I've never had a post deleted until this site was down this past weekend, they did not have numbers, names etc that would harm anyone here. A lot of posts where deleted while the site was down if anyone were to pay attention.

[roadworkahead]

Ok Christina --

 

Your dad was a marine. That’s an awesome and honorable history for him and a legacy for an American family. I and many others thank him for his service. Your dad also did great things for some very poor and desperate people when he was doing his compassion club gig.

 

When he got put in a position of authority at mmma, he changed. He became a conflicted, power/attention/money hungry gentleman who still had a love for people in need. He couldn’t balance the corruption that came with the new ‘power’ he had with his true hope to help people in need. You could see it unfold as he posted “stickies” of “blueberry, -oh gosh blushing – in the news AGAIN?”

 

He’s made some good decisions and some bad. The good decisions mostly spread out the first, I dunno, 67, years of his life or whatever, the bad decisions compressed into the last two years.

 

I’ve talked with enough people to know. Believe me or don’t. Many of us have seen things first hand that you haven’t, so we know things you don’t.

 

Let me put it this way. Many people tried to warn folks on the MMMA that transferring marijuana to people you’re not connected to through the registry is a grey area at best and more likely than not will be found to be unprotected under the act. I, myself, posted several such warnings only to have posts deleted. I saw posts deleted with this sort of content. When I confronted your father via email about this issue, he mocked me.

 

Think about that – the MMMA.org had an active dispensary thread and an active p2p transfer thread…many of us tried to caution the 3ma.org membership that such activities were risky, and that a Section 8 defense was not a reasonable safety net.

 

This boils down to: There was a lot of advice posted on the mmma.org to be cautious of liberal transfers. Those who posted this got banned. Posts encouraging caution were banned. The McQueen ruling underscored the need to be cautious with transfers. Even after that, the mmma.org banned people who advised caution and again deleted posts discussing this.

 

As far as I’m concerned the 3MA can rot in hell for giving one-sided advice that wide open transfers are legal/protected. A lot of people made some very bad and life-changing decisions after reading this one-sided advice.

 

This episode has been very damaging to the mmj movement in general. I, for one, see the incredible value in admonishing those responsible. If we ever hope to gain credibility mainstream, we as a class need to be willing to call foul when necessary.

 

Some of us have been doing that for two years. Some just started today.

 

Christina, please look at the actions – not the man. His actions in several ways involving the mmj community have been nothing short of repugnant. Maybe in “heaven” they weigh the good against the bad. But “God” isn’t a moderator on 3ma

how many patients flocked to dispensaries? Most still open, claim they are safe access points and operate within the "intent" of the law.... And some selling meds from Cali to boot

all this because you got banned from a website?

[Herbert Reyes]

The sad and unfortunate truth is a lot of good people got banned and hurt by Joe's lies, I'm one. After all I did for this site I was banned because I wanted to step down and teach people to grow. I did everything I could to make sure this site was a safe place for patients and when I was unable to stop the direction the site took I stepped down and moved on. This site did to much damage to too many patients by the hostel environment created by Joe with his FUD. I have always stood for the patient and always will and I hope this site can turn itself around and become the helping site we wanted when we revamped it into the new site.

 

Peace,

Quiteone

 

quietone, would you consider becoming a mod again?

[purklize]

I've seen post deleted but I've never had a post deleted until this site was down this past weekend, they did not have numbers, names etc that would harm anyone here. A lot of posts where deleted while the site was down if anyone were to pay attention.

 

I forgot about this, yeah, I lost several days worth of posts. Still no explanation on why the site went offline and why 1-2 days of posts disappeared. Was it restored from a backup? What happened?

[mike44]

interesting redirect...

 

that may very well be true... but not the question...

 

please...for the sake of integrity answer the simple question.

 

but also the complex one if u could...

 

thanking you in advance..

 

John

 

 

 

 

Be careful, you could be next. We need good mod's.

[Al Frankenstein]

Given by the nature of deleted posts, I may be mistaken, but were these posts worded along the lines of "transfers are illegal" than "the courts may misinterpret the law to find transfers illegal"? I've warned people countless times about these issues on this site, and expressed concern over the safety of the farmer's market model - I agree that they should be legal, but I worry the courts will legislate from the bench - and I have never had a single post of mine deleted. 800+ posts and not one gone... that's just been my experience...

 

I can't see a reason to differentiate between "is illegal" and "courts might misinterpret this to be illegal" Face the facts – the MMM Act makes mj “legal” under certain circumstances. Most of those circumstances are obvious. The problem with how you present your position is that it seems to exclude the possibility that you could be wrong. This is a prevailing problem in the MMJ community. We got this law passed, and suddenly, everyone wants to stretch it like Saran Wrap to cover everything. It doesn’t. It has limitations.

 

You can say “It isn’t legal” “It hasn’t been found to be legal” “It hasn’t been found to be illegal” and they all say the same thing – “test case”

 

Yet the abundance of advice preceding this “epiphany” if you will, has been that any patient can transfer marijuana to any other patient and collect money for it and the Smurfs will join hands and sing melodiously while dancing in a circle to prevent any law enforcement , PA, or judge from intervening.

 

Face it: This website and it moderators/admin staff encouraged patients to sell marijuana to other patients. This activity has been found illegal.

 

Anybody feel cheated?

[Herbert Reyes]

I forgot about this, yeah, I lost several days worth of posts. Still no explanation on why the site went offline and why 1-2 days of posts disappeared. Was it restored from a backup? What happened?

 

Yes, it was restored from backup. The site was taken down while the database and code were scoured for admin backdoors which have been eliminated.

[quietone]

quietone, would you consider becoming a mod again?

 

We can talk.

[CGorganic]

hold out for the big coin!

[mike44]

I can't see a reason to differentiate between "is illegal" and "courts might misinterpret this to be illegal" Face the facts – the MMM Act makes mj “legal” under certain circumstances. Most of those circumstances are obvious. The problem with how you present your position is that it seems to exclude the possibility that you could be wrong. This is a prevailing problem in the MMJ community. We got this law passed, and suddenly, everyone wants to stretch it like Saran Wrap to cover everything. It doesn’t. It has limitations.

 

You can say “It isn’t legal” “It hasn’t been found to be legal” “It hasn’t been found to be illegal” and they all say the same thing – “test case”

 

Yet the abundance of advice preceding this “epiphany” if you will, has been that any patient can transfer marijuana to any other patient and collect money for it and the Smurfs will join hands and sing melodiously while dancing in a circle to prevent any law enforcement , PA, or judge from intervening.

 

Face it: This website and it moderators/admin staff encouraged patients to sell marijuana to other patients. This activity has been found illegal.

 

Anybody feel cheated?

 

Total BS, no one here encouraged patients to sell to each other since the COA ruling. In fact they have done just the opposite.

[LongHairBri]

I've seen post deleted but I've never had a post deleted until this site was down this past weekend, they did not have numbers, names etc that would harm anyone here. A lot of posts where deleted while the site was down if anyone were to pay attention.

 

 

I forgot about this, yeah, I lost several days worth of posts. Still no explanation on why the site went offline and why 1-2 days of posts disappeared. Was it restored from a backup? What happened?

 

 

nothing has deleted....we lost 36 hours of content, we were off for 24

[purklize]

I can't see a reason to differentiate between "is illegal" and "courts might misinterpret this to be illegal"

 

The difference is that with "is illegal," especially pre-McQueen, you sound like Schuette. We all know that ruling was crap. Anyone that's read MI law knows how it reads. There is no law against the sale of mj, only against the delivery of mj. The MMMA legalized the delivery of mj from one patient to another. It's legal, but the courts are legislating from the bench, so it has no effect at the moment. Hopefully the Supreme Court will reverse it. Anyone with the ability to read the law, and faith in the courts, would have never expected the McQueen case to go the way it did.

[restlesslegs]

I can't see a reason to differentiate between "is illegal" and "courts might misinterpret this to be illegal" Face the facts – the MMM Act makes mj “legal” under certain circumstances. Most of those circumstances are obvious. The problem with how you present your position is that it seems to exclude the possibility that you could be wrong. This is a prevailing problem in the MMJ community. We got this law passed, and suddenly, everyone wants to stretch it like Saran Wrap to cover everything. It doesn’t. It has limitations.

 

You can say “It isn’t legal” “It hasn’t been found to be legal” “It hasn’t been found to be illegal” and they all say the same thing – “test case”

 

Yet the abundance of advice preceding this “epiphany” if you will, has been that any patient can transfer marijuana to any other patient and collect money for it and the Smurfs will join hands and sing melodiously while dancing in a circle to prevent any law enforcement , PA, or judge from intervening.

 

Face it: This website and it moderators/admin staff encouraged patients to sell marijuana to other patients. This activity has been found illegal.

 

Anybody feel cheated?

 

That is simply not true. Maybe you wrote that incorrectly> it has been repeatly stated here that Patients can not sell marijuana to other patients. That is illegal yes. Caregiver compensation as it stands now is allowed.

[Al Frankenstein]

how many patients flocked to dispensaries? Most still open, claim they are safe access points and operate within the "intent" of the law.... And some selling meds from Cali to boot

all this because you got banned from a website?

 

That's great. Throw it all out there. City of Burton still gives business licenses to dispensaries. making whoopee' rock-on and sell weed all over Michigan. Spread the word.

 

But also, let someone toss in a word of caution that the above actions have been deemed illegal in the courts, and raids and prosecutions result and are on-going.

 

Maybe it’s legal to grow weed on the Capitol lawn. I dunno. But I do know that if you to do it, you’ll be $50,000 in legal fees away from a 3-year trip to the supreme court only to guess your luck against whether the court will be friendly by the time you hope to litigate your slick donkey all the way there. And odds are you’ll be a felon by definition when the dust settles. But yeah, growin’ weed on the capitol lawn is legal.

 

It is about people being able to quantify risk. The mmma.org hijacked the public trust and directed patients towards risks they were unaware of. This really is a fact.

[kruztydj]

You misused your moderator status while I was watching. You should also be very careful of what you say. If you say anything threatening on this website again I will put you on post moderation. Your pseudo-criminal behavior will no longer be tolerated here.

 

 

My what ??? pseudo-criminal what??? lol to funny. How's asking to clear the issue that was brought up to the mods by showing the books a,,,,, pseudo-criminal behavior ? I could careless about the mod stuff as I was gonna demand ya pull me anyways as I'll have no part in any of this kind of crap.

 

Just clear the issue up and let the folks get back to fighting for their rights.We got 1 side in the issue but nothing from you. Things could be perfectly fine as far as I know, but problem is I don't know and the people don't know.

 

pseudo-criminal behavior

 

who talks like that lord,,,, to funny

 

Just clear the air so the people can get back to trying to save this law. Anyone remember the protest on the 17th lord...................

[Al Frankenstein]

The difference is that with "is illegal," especially pre-McQueen, you sound like Schuette. We all know that ruling was crap. Anyone that's read MI law knows how it reads. There is no law against the sale of mj, only against the delivery of mj. The MMMA legalized the delivery of mj from one patient to another. It's legal, but the courts are legislating from the bench, so it has no effect at the moment. Hopefully the Supreme Court will reverse it. Anyone with the ability to read the law, and faith in the courts, would have never expected the McQueen case to go the way it did.

 

What you are failing to grasp is that the COA essentially said that if you don’t fall within the strict limits of the act, then you don’t qualify for the medical defense. This is actually pretty basic, and some very reputable attorneys said early on, “be sure not to step outside the act at all because if you do, you have no defense.” Remember that? When the mainstream advice was that if you’re 100% complaint with 72 plants at home but you spark up on a bus, you are messed to the degree that 72 plants scrumpin you?

 

Well, the act doesn’t say one patient can sell to another, so when that happens, you are outside the act. Then you are tried outside the Act. You are in the PCH which says “delivery” Gee. Take the dunce cap off. If you strip away the protections of the MMMA, the you’re basically back to 2007 and it doesn’t matter if you grow, sell, deliver, manufacture – the charge is delivery.

 

Get it? The courts and even the author of the law are saying the law was written to protect a patient growing their own and/or CG assisting. Anything beyond that is a stretch.

[kruztydj]

Interesting redirect and spin tho.... All we're asking for is the answers so the folks can get on with things.

[Al Frankenstein]

Total BS, no one here encouraged patients to sell to each other since the COA ruling. In fact they have done just the opposite.

 

 

 

p2p sales were found to be illegal by the COA in August of 2011. That means if you had a p2p sale in 2010, you're screwed. Some of us, in 2010, warned of this. It is as if you think that law changed from p2p is legal to p2p is illegal when the COA ruling came out. Sorry, that isn't how it works. P2p sales are illegal back to day one. Some of us back to day 1 warned against p2p sales.

 

Do you hear me now?

[Al Frankenstein]

consider all of us being fedex'd to hell.

 

I do agree with this much.

[purklize]

What you are failing to grasp is that the COA essentially said that if you don’t fall within the strict limits of the act, then you don’t qualify for the medical defense. This is actually pretty basic, and some very reputable attorneys said early on, “be sure not to step outside the act at all because if you do, you have no defense.” Remember that? When the mainstream advice was that if you’re 100% complaint with 72 plants at home but you spark up on a bus, you are messed to the degree that 72 plants scrumpin you?

 

Well, the act doesn’t say one patient can sell to another, so when that happens, you are outside the act. Then you are tried outside the Act. You are in the PCH which says “delivery” Gee. Take the dunce cap off. If you strip away the protections of the MMMA, the you’re basically back to 2007 and it doesn’t matter if you grow, sell, deliver, manufacture – the charge is delivery.

 

Get it? The courts and even the author of the law are saying the law was written to protect a patient growing their own and/or CG assisting. Anything beyond that is a stretch.

 

I think you're the one with trouble grasping this. If you do something involving mj, it either falls under Michigan's PHC or it does not. The PHC is where all the laws about possession, delivery, manufacture, etc. are found. The MMMA creates exceptions to the PHC. Sale is charged as "delivery" under the PHC. The MMMA legalizes delivery, therefore an exception to the PHC for "delivery" has been made. There is no other statute for them to charge you under - the word "sale" appears nowhere in the PHC statutes for mj - therefore it is legal under MI law. Everything mj related is not just magically illegal by default, if it is not specifically criminalized by law it is by default legal. The COA has deliberately misread the law, and is legislating from the bench. I had never before in my life seen such gross judicial misconduct (now exceeded by a circuit court judge in Charlevoix who says the entire MMMA is without effect and is throwing patients away for possession). All three of those judges should be disbarred.

[Al Frankenstein]

I

I'm sorry you felt mocked, I have never known him to purposefully mock someone. I do know he was cautious about the issues of people posting personal information on the website that might get them harmed. I also know he was having someone whisper in his ear about certain situations.

 

Your father was more disrespectful to me than any other person I've ever communicated with. Take this as friendly advice as you maybe lead his PR campaign. I'm saying nothing good nor bad about Joe Cain as a man. I'm simply trying to communicate to you the disrespect I encountered.

[Al Frankenstein]

Everything mj related is not just magically illegal by default, if it is not specifically criminalized by law it is by default legal.

 

This is 100% opposite of what the COA has said. The COA was 100% clear that if the action isn't specifically legal, it is illegal.

 

You can choose not to like this, but this is law in Michigan.