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purklize Advanced Member

purklize

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That's not how law works in the United States. Nothing is illegal unless there is a law against it. The COA has made up a law that doesn't exist (one against sale) and they should be disbarred for it. It does no good to back them on this by insisting day and night that sale has always been illegal, instead of criticizing this decision like you should be.

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Al Frankenstein Member

Al Frankenstein

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That's not how law works in the United States. Nothing is illegal unless there is a law against it. The COA has made up a law that doesn't exist (one against sale) and they should be disbarred for it. It does no good to back them on this by insisting day and night that sale has always been illegal, instead of criticizing this decision like you should be.

 

No. The COA said the MMMAct protects you to the extent your actions are outlined under the act. The act does not protect patient to patient sales. So once you lose the protection of the Act, that patient to patient sale is also a "delivery" under PHC.

 

It is pretty simple.

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Al Frankenstein Member

Al Frankenstein

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instead of criticizing this decision like you should be.

 

There is a limit to what the MMMAct protects. Most of us were making whoopee happy to get 12 plants and 5 patients. I know a lot of people who make this work, and very few who don't.

 

Rather than push the boundaries of what the good people of the State of Michigan have given us, can't you find a way to make the caregiver system work, and rather than argue against court decisions, advocate for new, protective legislation? Some of see the Act as a great first step. Some want to jam all things cannabis down its throat. I believe the public who extended their trust envisioned the former.

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purklize Advanced Member

purklize

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We are not pushing the boundaries. We are demanding what is written in law - that which has already been granted by the people of Michigan. I don't know how you can't grasp that the COA ruling was a bad one, you're echoing Schuette here. The MMMA allows delivery. You cannot legally (the judges are breaking the law) be charged with delivery because you made a sale. It would be like saying that since the MMMA doesn't specifically allow you to gargle hash oil, you will be charged with possession if you gargle hash oil. These are very weak arguments that are not supported at all by the PHC or the MMMA. Read this again, please, this time more carefully...

 

http://michiganmedicalmarijuana.org/topic/38583-hello-and-welcome-back/page__view__findpost__p__371978

 

Yes, the COA said it's illegal, and yes, what the COA says goes, at least for now. But that does not make it right. They are corrupt, biased, activist judges who have taken on the task of legislating from the bench and making up laws that don't exist, and we need to do something about it, or they will keep picking our law apart until there is little left.

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Al Frankenstein Member

Al Frankenstein

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We are not pushing the boundaries. We are demanding what is written in law - that which has already been granted by the people of Michigan. I don't know how you can't grasp that the COA ruling was a bad one, you're echoing Schuette here. The MMMA allows delivery. You cannot legally (the judges are breaking the law) be charged with delivery because you made a sale. It would be like saying that since the MMMA doesn't specifically allow you to gargle hash oil, you will be charged with possession if you gargle hash oil. These are very weak arguments that are not supported at all by the PHC or the MMMA. Read this again, please, this time more carefully...

 

http://michiganmedicalmarijuana.org/topic/38583-hello-and-welcome-back/page__view__findpost__p__371978

 

Yes, the COA said it's illegal, and yes, what the COA says goes, at least for now. But that does not make it right. They are corrupt, biased, activist judges who have taken on the task of legislating from the bench and making up laws that don't exist, and we need to do something about it, or they will keep picking our law apart until there is little left.

 

Have you ever, for a moment, thought that maybe you're wrong? I mean, the MMMAct wasn't the end to prohibition of all things cannabis. So why are you such a sharp tack that you have it nailed right?

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purklize Advanced Member

purklize

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Yeah, I have many times before in my life. And each time, I went out and investigated matters myself, gathered evidence, and re-evaluated my stance. I have already done so in this case, I have read the laws and decisions myself.

 

I mean, the MMMAct wasn't the end to prohibition of all things cannabis. So why are you such a sharp tack that you have it nailed right?

 

Of course it wasn't an end to prohibition. I never said it was. But to abandon what has already been granted by the people of Michigan - without a fight - smacks of timidity and cowardice that does not sit well with me.

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Flowergirl Advanced Member

Flowergirl

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I think you're the one with trouble grasping this. If you do something involving mj, it either falls under Michigan's PHC or it does not. The PHC is where all the laws about possession, delivery, manufacture, etc. are found. The MMMA creates exceptions to the PHC. Sale is charged as "delivery" under the PHC. The MMMA legalizes delivery, therefore an exception to the PHC for "delivery" has been made. There is no other statute for them to charge you under - the word "sale" appears nowhere in the PHC statutes for mj - therefore it is legal under MI law. Everything mj related is not just magically illegal by default, if it is not specifically criminalized by law it is by default legal. The COA has deliberately misread the law, and is legislating from the bench. I had never before in my life seen such gross judicial misconduct (now exceeded by a circuit court judge in Charlevoix who says the entire MMMA is without effect and is throwing patients away for possession). All three of those judges should be disbarred.

 

Thats exactly why the Supreme Court is taking up the case- the sale of marijuana in Michigan is not illegal. Only the delivery is illegal and we are covered there. However a bill pending in the legislature would make the "sale" of marijuana outside of registry card restrictions illegal destroying the whole arguement. That bill only requires a simple majority because they are writing it into the penal code instead of ammending the act. THIS IS WHY! Lets hope the bill fails and we win in the Supreme Court other wise P2P is gone for good!

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Al Frankenstein Member

Al Frankenstein

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Yeah, I have many times before in my life. And each time, I went out and investigated matters myself, gathered evidence, and re-evaluated my stance. I have already done so in this case, I have read the laws and decisions myself.

 

So you know it doesn't matter what either of us thinks.

 

It is up to the guys in the black robes. And if you think you can influence those ego-driven personalities, have at it. You can't.

 

The wise decision was to predict, two years ago, where the courts would land. Get it? We live in a corrupt democracy. All you really need to do is watch any football game on TV. If the ref calls against team A, then team A's fans rise up in protest. Every time. People have blind allegiance. Look around you. Kool-aid moustaches still abound.

 

We knew the courts would move faster than the legislature. So now p2p sales are illegal. Cry foul all you want. Some of us knew that the conservative courts would rule this way and cautioned up-front.

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Al Frankenstein Member

Al Frankenstein

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Yeah, that is very concerning. It's really too bad the authors of the MMMA didn't have the foresight to anticipate that.

 

There's a ton a crap the act didn't predict. We all know that now. This law in Michigan was pivotal. There have been no new similar ballot initiatives.

 

The fact that the authors didn't have foresight leaves decisions to the courts. Bummer.

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purklize Advanced Member

purklize

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It's not quite the same as football allegiances, though I do see your analogy. Here, we are clearly, and verifiably in an objective sense, right. We can influence these decisions in the future by voting some of these guys out. There's some Supreme Court seats up for election this year, it's important the right people get elected. Either way telling people that transfers have always been illegal doesn't do us any good, if it's hopeless it's better to just remain silent than to undermine ourselves in the court of public opinion.

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mrd Advanced Member

mrd

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Thats awesome how the site automaticly turned my swear word in moo poo! Very high tech!

 

Its been doing that for quite awhile. No biggie. I like it because it forces people to be a little creative.

 

F**k U! as you can see it is not impossible to swear. I saw a piece of writing that had random letters in the middle of words but you could still understand. Same idea.

 

Any way welcome back. The brighton cc has had a lightweight version of this bs going on too. The similarities are surprising.

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DailyToker Advanced Member

DailyToker

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The MMMA was a good idea. It is too bad it has been warped just as any other corporation, organization or group of people. Personal gain will destroy everything, as you all can see. I hold anyone responsible whom seen the corruption, grey matter and drama before this and didn't speak up. You all know who you are, and only you can hold yourself accountable.

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Timmahh Advanced Member

Timmahh

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There has been much misinformation being cast over the last 7 days. The Staff here were getting the same misguided, or intentionally skewed information as well. Mibrains summed the position of the mods up well.

 

I believe many of the past moderators likely also fall into that same summation.

We are all weary from the last 5 to 6 months of push from the State and BS in various ways. It seems many of us, myself included, just were not sure what to make of these latest revelations.

 

I joined this website a year ago, because it seemed to be the only place that was talking about issues I felt were important to saving our Act. Its the only reason I landed here. I am tired of our government taint beating the Citizens over cannabis. The only deaths ever caused by cannabis, were solely due to the prohibition against it. Unlike Alcohol Prohibition, Cannabis Prohibition has lasted 10 times the lifetime as Alcohol prohibition. Cannabis Prohibition has Killed, Imprisoned, and Ruined more American Citizens life's over the years, that Alcohol prohibition, and the Korean and Vietnam could likely ever have, yet cannabis still remains 1000000 times more safe than alcohol, yet prohibition of cannabis remains. Ruined Lives for profit is all Cannabis Prohibition equates too.

 

 

Perhaps I have become too emotionally attached to this situation. But to me, it appears there is still Much to be understood over this particulate situation.

 

But I believe deeply that not only All the members here, staff included, and Any MMJ Patient in Michigan in general, past and present, are getting the short end of the stick on this People Initiative because the big money behind the current administration does not like that we perhaps, no longer have to suckle up to the true profiteers, the pharmaceutical industry, to get relief from the real life symptoms. And doing it without having to buy into the ponzi scheme known as the Medical Industrial Complex, implemented under the guise of "managed health care".

 

 

To the best of my knowledge, the 3MA never endorsed the JFM as an organization, but understood the need for it, and the safe access it provided to Patients throughout the state. That is a message I think all can get behind.

 

Honestly, the Staff is just as much as lost as you all are, with perhaps a few days lead time to the WTF is this all about moment.

 

We are trying to do the best we can in putting the 3MA back to the Organization it should be. A Voice for the Patients and Caregivers, and the Citizens of Michigan.

This Act was passed by The People, For the People. And Bill Schuette, Rick Snyder, Rick Jones and what appears to be the Majority of the Setting Republican Guard that has control over much of the State's Governance.

 

I'll sign off of this thread saying, Many of us were lead astray. And many may still be over the next few days due to whatever this is or has become. Some by anger, some by design, some by passion, some by money, some by desire, and the majority by confusions created due to the copious amounts of propaganda being spread by those very Guards in the State that want to separate and divide. Are there some within the cannabis community that want to do that, their certainly is a few im sure, and it would come as no surprise to me a fair amount of the naysayer in the community could be plants. That has been a current tactic of many in government, with the sole purpose to cause dissention among the ranks...

 

But lets keep in mind, the largest instigator to this situation is the States absolute failure to implement this Act as we passed it. Nearly all the other problems in the State currently, Especially where the Medical Cannabis Community is concerned, Has been happening since early 2010. Yet prior to 2010, we seen more than a couple major issues like Bob and Torrey ect... but generally the water was tepid, but not ice cold. But in 2010, we got RS full of BS. and here we are.

 

As a State, as a Community, the right thing to do is to put our differences aside for now. We must as a Community Stand up as One.

 

This act was not passed for those stoners looking for a free legal buzz.

 

It was passed By the People, For the People. ALL OF US. Not just the stoners, or not even just for those near death. ehich shows the shallow depth of compassion Mr Schuette commands, when the one Medicine He wants to keep out of terminal cancer patients hands until they are all but buried, is the one medicine that is working amazingly on all ailments. That does not bode well for Mr Schuette, his push for the Fed AG position, and the Managed Health Care System.

 

It is time to Unite, and put our government back in its gilded cage, where it belongs.

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