Hello And Welcome Back!

[TajMahal]

Morning.

[Hangover High]

There has been much misinformation being cast over the last 7 days. The Staff here were getting the same misguided, or intentionally skewed information as well. Mibrains summed the position of the mods up well.

 

so in the last 6 months i was banned twice once i went to the market and asked for my account back

 

Sent 03 January 2012 - 01:26 PM

 

drtarzanmd, on 01 November 2011 - 09:59 AM, said:

 

your account is being looked into ....

 

i've added other staff to this pm ....

 

im sure we'll find out soon as to what happen ....

 

Many Things have happen when we lost the Sites Dated ...

 

Plus Staff will No longer accepted any Chit-Stirring

or back stabbing ....

 

Please be patient as to why you are Banned ...

 

 

 

i still was never told and then banned again

[Hangover High]

5 staff members was in that convo bri and Q both ya was there was i not a good enuff pt to help ?

[budpuffer]

i have never met BB,but many here know we didn't get along..i was wrongfully banned too.i sometime thought he was over dramatic,and i disliked the butt kissers who agreed with every word he wrote but i don't believe he would purposely hurt the MMMA,and because of that i'll wait to hear his side..i've been on this site for awhile, way back to when Fred was the MMMA..i hate everyone who's trying to point the direction of the MMMA to their front pocket...from the big commercial growers,to the disps,to the CC's and their farmers market,,everyone's trying to milk a buck from the sick...before i jump i like to see where i'm jumping to..i see a lot of posts slamming BB from folks i'd never heard of before...got a new admin i've never heard from before...there is always two sides to a story and i can't wait to hear them both...until then we have other matters to attend,,like the Bills about to be voted on..bp/zipbanger

[Timmahh]

p2p sales were found to be illegal by the COA in August of 2011. That means if you had a p2p sale in 2010, you're screwed. Some of us, in 2010, warned of this. It is as if you think that law changed from p2p is legal to p2p is illegal when the COA ruling came out. Sorry, that isn't how it works. P2p sales are illegal back to day one. Some of us back to day 1 warned against p2p sales.

 

Do you hear me now?

 

 

And yet, lower courts after the CoA Ruling, while well aware of the CoA Ruling have tossed and dismissed cases of Pt/Pt Transfers with money, stating in that courts opinion, P2P with remuneration is not Illegal per the Medical Use of the Act.

 

So we have 1/2 the courts saying yes P2P is Ok with money transferred as well, and 1/2 the courts saying no it is not ok with money transferred, even after the CoA McQueen ruling.

 

Courts do not make Law, they uphold and interpret Law. as noted Judges can not legislate from the bench, only enforce Laws.

 

The issue with the CoA McQueen ruling, is the CoA, went outside the legal parameters set forth by the Michigan Supreme Court on the guidelines of Interpreting a People Initiative, which is not just a Law, but a Law by the People for the People. As such, a People Initiative has Very Strict Guidelines and Rules that MUST be followed by EVERY State Agency, which includes the State Court of Appeals.... I find it Very disturbing that our State Court of Appeals, Wantonly ignored the Guide set forth by the Highest Court in the State, the Michigan Supreme Court, and effectively broke a Law set forth to protect the People and their Right to Create Law through Initiatives, but did so with the intention to subjugate the Will of the People, and Make otherwise Law Abiding Citizens into hardened felons.

 

All by the will of one man who has NO Legal Authority to make his OPINION of OUR LAW change by re writing it to his liking, without a 75% Super Majority in Both the House of Representatives, and the State Senate...And then a Signature by the Governor, non of which has been accomplished I might ad.

 

 

I believe this is a message the PEOPLE of this great State will get behind, and one that should not be passed by.

 

The People of the State will hear it, Did you?

[Timmahh]

There is a limit to what the MMMAct protects. Most of us were making whoopee happy to get 12 plants and 5 patients. I know a lot of people who make this work, and very few who don't.

 

Rather than push the boundaries of what the good people of the State of Michigan have given us, can't you find a way to make the caregiver system work, and rather than argue against court decisions, advocate for new, protective legislation? Some of see the Act as a great first step. Some want to jam all things cannabis down its throat. I believe the public who extended their trust envisioned the former.

 

That would be fine if the caregiver system worked for everyone. It simply can not and will not work for everyone.

 

The Act was written for the People of the State, and passed By the People of the State. for Patients. Not for Caregivers. Caregivers are a 2nd avenue of access, not the 1st. nothing more nothing less. Patients were the 1st and Only point to the 08 MMM Act. As a Caregiver, no Patient, No plants. If you have no Patients, you are a self growing patient, waiting for an assigned Pt to be a Caregiver.

 

It is then, Illogical to say as a self plant retaining patient, the only thing that make me illegal for helping another patient, is that patient not being my assigned patient.

 

Again, you Can NOT overlook ALL aspects of the Act. This is exactly what the CoA has done in McQueen and nearly every other Medical cannabis case they have heard, unless they refused to hear it. When we voted in Nov 08, the ballots Specifically Stated Do we the People want to pass this Act, to make Protections for the Citizens of the State, both Registered and UN Registered, as well as Visiting Patients from other States with MMJ laws in that pts home state, the ability to Acquire, Use, Transfer, Deliver, Manufacture, process ect. ect. ect... and make it Not a Crime, but a Medical Exclusion to the legal penalties of medican cannabis use. The Reason Sale is Not mentioned in this, is Sale is not mentioned in the PHC, thus the Sale of Cannabis was NEVER illegal in the state of Michigan, thus needed to exclusion to make it legal under the MMM Act "Medical Use" definition.

 

This Is in fact the Judicial Branch of government making law, to willingly make Citizens criminals.

 

We can not and must not let this blazing violation of Our State Law be allowed.

[Timmahh]

There's a ton a crap the act didn't predict. We all know that now. This law in Michigan was pivotal. There have been no new similar ballot initiatives.

 

The fact that the authors didn't have foresight leaves decisions to the courts. Bummer.

 

 

Prediction of law is not the point, Interpretation is. A Peoples Initiative can ONLY be interpreted by a very narrow margin as set for by the Supreme Court of Michigan.

the Law must be interpreted by the understanding of the body of government which ratified the Law into effet. In this case, it was the Voting Citizens of the State, through an Initiative.

 

Yet the Court of Appeals made an illegal move by not interpreting the Act as A peoples Initiative. They used the Legislative Law in the PCH to define the words Delivery and Transfer, in order to again, subjugate our Law. And did it in more than one case they handled concerning the MMM Act.

 

Breaking the Law is a crime for all the Citizens, and Members of the State government. That Includes the State Court of Appeals.

Every Judge will tell you, ignorance of the law is no excuse. So even if you are unaware of the law, you can still be found guilty for breaking the Law. So what do they tell you when you knew the law and still violated it? The tell you you are Guilty and a Criminal.

The CoA Justices that wantonly made these blatant violations of the Law Must be held accountable. As the Body of Government that Passed the Act, it is OUR Duty to ensure the Law is upheld. To leave it to the Government on ANY Level, is akin to not taking the responsibility we have as Citizens, to ensure all employess of our government are also following all the laws we too must abide by.

[purklize]

AMEN!

[bobandtorey]

And yet, lower courts after the CoA Ruling, while well aware of the CoA Ruling have tossed and dismissed cases of Pt/Pt Transfers with money, stating in that courts opinion, P2P with remuneration is not Illegal per the Medical Use of the Act.

 

So we have 1/2 the courts saying yes P2P is Ok with money transferred as well, and 1/2 the courts saying no it is not ok with money transferred, even after the CoA McQueen ruling.

 

Courts do not make Law, they uphold and interpret Law. as noted Judges can not legislate from the bench, only enforce Laws.

 

The issue with the CoA McQueen ruling, is the CoA, went outside the legal parameters set forth by the Michigan Supreme Court on the guidelines of Interpreting a People Initiative, which is not just a Law, but a Law by the People for the People. As such, a People Initiative has Very Strict Guidelines and Rules that MUST be followed by EVERY State Agency, which includes the State Court of Appeals.... I find it Very disturbing that our State Court of Appeals, Wantonly ignored the Guide set forth by the Highest Court in the State, the Michigan Supreme Court, and effectively broke a Law set forth to protect the People and their Right to Create Law through Initiatives, but did so with the intention to subjugate the Will of the People, and Make otherwise Law Abiding Citizens into hardened felons.

 

All by the will of one man who has NO Legal Authority to make his OPINION of OUR LAW change by re writing it to his liking, without a 75% Super Majority in Both the House of Representatives, and the State Senate...And then a Signature by the Governor, non of which has been accomplished I might ad.

 

 

I believe this is a message the PEOPLE of this great State will get behind, and one that should not be passed by.

 

The People of the State will hear it, Did you?

 

without a 75% Super Majority in Both the House of Representatives, and the State Senate...And then a Signature by the Governor, non of which has been accomplished I might ad. i have tried to look this up

has this ever happen in are State for any thing?

[bobandtorey]

There has been much misinformation being cast over the last 7 days. The Staff here were getting the same misguided, or intentionally skewed information as well. Mibrains summed the position of the mods up well.

 

I believe many of the past moderators likely also fall into that same summation.

We are all weary from the last 5 to 6 months of push from the State and BS in various ways. It seems many of us, myself included, just were not what to take of these latest revelations.

 

I joined this website a year ago, because it seemed to be the only place that was talking about issues I felt were important to saving our Act. Its the only reason I landed here. I am tired of our government taint beating the Citizens over cannabis. The only deaths ever caused by cannabis, were solely due to the prohibition against it. Unlike Alcohol Prohibition, Cannabis Prohibition has lasted 10 times the lifetime as Alcohol prohibition. Cannabis Prohibition has Killed, Imprisoned, and Ruined more American Citizens life's over the years, that Alcohol prohibition, and the Korean and Vietnam could likely ever have, yet cannabis still remains 1000000 times more safe than alcohol, yet prohibition of cannabis remains. Ruined Lives for profit is all Cannabis Prohibition equates too.

 

 

Perhaps I have become too emotionally attached to this situation. But to me, it appears there is still Much to be understood over this particulate situation.

 

But I believe deeply that not only All the members here, staff included, and Any MMJ Patient in Michigan in general, past and present, are getting the short end of the stick on this People Initiative because the big money behind the current administration does not like that we perhaps, no longer have to suckle up to the true profiteers, the pharmaceutical industry, to get relief from the real life symptoms. And doing it without having to buy into the ponzi scheme known as the Medical Industrial Complex, implemented under the guise of "managed health care".

 

 

To the best of my knowledge, the 3MA never endorsed the JFM as an organization, but understood the need for it, and the safe access it provided to Patients throughout the state. That is a message I think all can get behind.

 

Honestly, the Staff is just as much as lost as you all are, with perhaps a few days lead time to the WTF is this all about moment.

 

We are trying to do the best we can in putting the 3MA back to the Organization it should be. A Voice for the Patients and Caregivers, and the Citizens of Michigan.

This Act was passed by The People, For the People. And Bill Schuette, Rick Snyder, Rick Jones and what appears to be the Majority of the Setting Republican Guard that has control over much of the State's Governance.

 

I'll sign off of this thread saying, Many of us were lead astray. And many may still be over the next few days due to whatever this is or has become. Some by anger, some by design, some by passion, some by money, some by desire, and the majority by confusions created due to the copious amounts of propaganda being spread by those very Guards in the State that want to separate and divide. Are there some within the cannabis community that want to do that, their certainly is a few im sure, and it would come as no surprise to me a fair amount of the naysayer in the community could be plants. That has been a current tactic of many in government, with the sole purpose to cause dissention among the ranks...

 

But lets keep in mind, the largest instigator to this situation is the States absolute failure to implement this Act as we passed it. Nearly all the other problems in the State currently, Especially where the Medical Cannabis Community is concerned, Has been happening since early 2010. Yet prior to 2010, we seen more than a couple major issues like Bob and Torrey ect... but generally the water was tepid, but not ice cold. But in 2010, we got RS full of BS. and here we are.

 

As a State, as a Community, the right thing to do is to put our differences aside for now. We must as a Community Stand up as One.

 

This act was not passed for those stoners looking for a free legal buzz.

 

It was passed By the People, For the People. ALL OF US. Not just the stoners, or not even just for those near death. ehich shows the shallow depth of compassion Mr Schuette commands, when the one Medicine He wants to keep out of terminal cancer patients hands until they are all but buried, is the one medicine that is working amazingly on all ailments. That does not bode well for Mr Schuette, his push for the Fed AG position, and the Managed Health Care System.

 

It is time to Unite, and put our government back in its gilded cage, where it belongs.

 

it would come as no surprise to me a fair amount of the naysayer in the community could be plants.

i agree

[bobandtorey]

That would be fine if the caregiver system worked for everyone. It simply can not and will not work for everyone.

 

The Act was written for the People of the State, and passed By the People of the State. for Patients. Not for Caregivers. Caregivers are a 2nd avenue of access, not the 1st. nothing more nothing less. Patients were the 1st and Only point to the 08 MMM Act. As a Caregiver, no Patient, No plants. If you have no Patients, you are a self growing patient, waiting for an assigned Pt to be a Caregiver.

 

It is then, Illogical to say as a self plant retaining patient, the only thing that make me illegal for helping another patient, is that patient not being my assigned patient.

 

Again, you Can NOT overlook ALL aspects of the Act. This is exactly what the CoA has done in McQueen and nearly every other Medical cannabis case they have heard, unless they refused to hear it. When we voted in Nov 08, the ballots Specifically Stated Do we the People want to pass this Act, to make Protections for the Citizens of the State, both Registered and UN Registered, as well as Visiting Patients from other States with MMJ laws in that pts home state, the ability to Acquire, Use, Transfer, Deliver, Manufacture, process ect. ect. ect... and make it Not a Crime, but a Medical Exclusion to the legal penalties of medican cannabis use. The Reason Sale is Not mentioned in this, is Sale is not mentioned in the PHC, thus the Sale of Cannabis was NEVER illegal in the state of Michigan, thus needed to exclusion to make it legal under the MMM Act "Medical Use" definition.

 

This Is in fact the Judicial Branch of government making law, to willingly make Citizens criminals.

 

We can not and must not let this blazing violation of Our State Law be allowed.

 

patients i agree as long as we stick to that part we can not lose IMHO with-out the sick we can't have a Law but i think this site should be a Medical site and we all should be working for what we now have not what we may or may not have in November

 

 

 

[bobandtorey]

What you are failing to grasp is that the COA essentially said that if you don’t fall within the strict limits of the act, then you don’t qualify for the medical defense. This is actually pretty basic, and some very reputable attorneys said early on, “be sure not to step outside the act at all because if you do, you have no defense.” Remember that? When the mainstream advice was that if you’re 100% complaint with 72 plants at home but you spark up on a bus, you are messed to the degree that 72 plants scrumpin you?

 

Well, the act doesn’t say one patient can sell to another, so when that happens, you are outside the act. Then you are tried outside the Act. You are in the PCH which says “delivery” Gee. Take the dunce cap off. If you strip away the protections of the MMMA, the you’re basically back to 2007 and it doesn’t matter if you grow, sell, deliver, manufacture – the charge is delivery.

 

Get it? The courts and even the author of the law are saying the law was written to protect a patient growing their own and/or CG assisting. Anything beyond that is a stretch.

the COA essentially said that if you don’t fall within the strict limits of the act, then you don’t qualify for the medical defense.

that is true but what about Bob and torey's case we were legal all the way and still can't use the Law in court

 

[jamieuke]

I have removed the banfilters and all previously banned users. Welcome back to the MMMA!

 

 

Through a lot of disruption and turmoil, much of it fabricated and unnecessary, and by way of pointing fingers before facts are known or information verified, many people have been either banned or just turned off by this site enough to discontinue using it. Yet, through it all, even some of those who were completely aware of the major management and leadership issues, still used this site, filtering through the nonsense, to offer or get good information. I sincerely hope that this site can realize a major evolution for the entire community, now.

 

The details that led to this transition are not of much concern to me, but it is encouraging to see so many formerly banned community members return so quickly when the opportunity became available. It would make sense that those who avoided getting banned will now feel more comfortable expressing themselves here, as well. It has been frustrating for many to see the potential of this site and organization go unrealized for so long. The need to focus on the foundation of things we all agree on is crucial to preserving what we have achieved, and for us to move forward, as a unified community.

 

We do not have to agree with strategy and philosophy, all of the time. To expect that we would all share the exact same image of how things are and where they headed, is just not realistic. We can argue and debate and resolve to support the best plan, whether or not it comports to how we would individually do things, or like to see things. We need to work together and to be tolerant of each other. I really hope that this is a new start for this site, and and that the entire community can benefit from it.

[bobandtorey]

What you are failing to grasp is that the COA essentially said that if you don’t fall within the strict limits of the act, then you don’t qualify for the medical defense. This is actually pretty basic, and some very reputable attorneys said early on, “be sure not to step outside the act at all because if you do, you have no defense.” Remember that? When the mainstream advice was that if you’re 100% complaint with 72 plants at home but you spark up on a bus, you are messed to the degree that 72 plants scrumpin you?

 

Well, the act doesn’t say one patient can sell to another, so when that happens, you are outside the act. Then you are tried outside the Act. You are in the PCH which says “delivery” Gee. Take the dunce cap off. If you strip away the protections of the MMMA, the you’re basically back to 2007 and it doesn’t matter if you grow, sell, deliver, manufacture – the charge is delivery.

 

Get it? The courts and even the author of the law are saying the law was written to protect a patient growing their own and/or CG assisting. Anything beyond that is a stretch.

i agree back inn 08 we all agreed that you could get Meds from any one and you would be OK it's the person that you get them from is in trouble

but then some one said what about some one coming from other states?

are they to Waite 4-5 months for meds? or someone finds out they have the C word today and are inn treatment tomorrow what about them?

thats were i see things getting gray IMHO

 

 

[Cutty Ranks]

from Joe's FB page this morning.

 

From: Michael Komorn <michael@komornlaw.com>

To: Jcain1369@yahoo.com

Cc: Michael Komorn <michael@komornlaw.com>

Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 3:31 PM

Subject: Joe Cain

 

Joe,

You failed to address any of the issues I raised. There were many, and all true, and your failure to even say no, or contest them is an admission as far as I am concerned. And in typical fashion, as it has come to be, CEO, you blame me. Reality check, you have been running this thing, and no one else. You have not done one thing that I have asked, despite countless hours begging and pleading with you to just act in your capacity and help me fix the site. I am sorry, I thought this was all on your watch. When you have absolute control of the site, do all the picking and choosing of mods, technicians, etc you can not blame anyone else. You don't have two peeps to say about how you ran whatever opportunity this organization had to function at anything but a loss, I have no idea what you are talking about in regards to 60 k. Unless you are talking about losses caused by you, or the amount of money we should have but don't because you think it is ok To operate in debt. Or the 60 k plus I have paid you to run the organization, that is not viable, and think that the best play for the mmma is to get arrested in Lansing. Seriously you have nothing to say about that? Too busy running your not for profit farmers market. And Joe, thanks for confirming your shenanigans about the post you made up, and for realizing how stupid it was to think you could just go out and slander me, and think that crap would fly. Not bright my friend. I won't ask for a retraction.

[Cutty Ranks]

Joe's reply from FB:

Joe Cain

In this email Michael Komorn is angry because I won't fix the site and let him restart the advertising program. I did this so he couldn't keep stealing the money. He didn't just steal from the MMMA. He stoled from patients. I tried to stop that too. He really hates the farmers market because it is not for profit. Opening in Lansing was to be an act of civil disobedience. He violated my attorney client privaledge and discussed details that I had discussed with him and made it too dangerous. He is an abuser of the sick. I'm not alone. There are other sick people he abused.

40 minutes ago · 1

Joe Cain I crashed the database to shut down the advertising campaign. I wasn't going to fix it.

39 minutes ago

[Al Frankenstein]

So we have 1/2 the courts saying yes P2P is Ok with money transferred as well, and 1/2 the courts saying no it is not ok with money transferred, even after the CoA McQueen ruling.

 

 

Really? There's a good example of what I'm talking about. Bad advice confusing people and leading them down the wrong path. Show us one court ruling after McQueen that says p2p with $ is legal. One. Find it, or retract your misleading advice. You're telling the readership here that p2p sales have traction in the court system that doesn't exist. This is bad and dangerous advice. You show me two p2p sales = OK court rulings issued after Mcqueen and I'll eat my shoes and post a video of it on you tube.

 

When half the courts say "A" and half the courts say "not A" but the MMMA.org says "A" and bans people who say "not A" ..... be careful, there's a serious problem.

 

You might not like my words of caution, and we both disagree with the COA ruling, but the COA ruling is now LAW. The difference is that some people say "p2p sales are legal; the COA just messed up" and some people say "the COA improperly interpreted the law, and now p2p sales are illegal." It doesn't matter if the COA ruling said "we flipped a coin. p2p lost. the end." It would be gross injustice but p2p sales would still be illegal. Some people don't get that.

 

And it recklessly puts patients and caregivers in danger when you don't lay the information out properly.

 

People have made bad decisions based on the biased advice they got from this site, and some of those people are paying a dear price for it.

 

Many many people said "watch out with p2p sales" and they got banned. The MMMA facilitated p2p sales, even with a special forum.

 

This website lead thousands of people to pacticipate in actions found to be 4-year felonies while hushing advice to the contrary. Can't you see that was bad for the movement and bad for the people who got busted as a result of the one-side information they read here? Is the MMMA saying it has no responsibility now?

 

We can debate the law all day and into the night. In the end I hope cannbis falls for free from the sky, but in the meantime I wish the MMMA would acknowledge that it was a machine of one-side information and I hope steps are taken to prevent this from happening again.

 

Go ahead and disagree with a conservative view of the law. That's great. Fight for change but when you don't tell people that your advice might mean a 4-year felony, you do a disservice.

 

I don't know very many patients who can sustain being test case advocates. Do you?

[Croppled1]

it would come as no surprise to me a fair amount of the naysayer in the community could be plants.

i agree

 

 

Absolutely and that will never change . If the last year shows us anything there appears to be no way to limit access or truely determine motives . In a corporate environment like Mr Cain came from you eliminate disruptive forces period . In a patient organization you must accept them and let the community form consensus of opinion as slow and cumbersome as that is .

 

All of us have to remember we are all guilty of breaking Federal Law just for participating in the program as ridiculous as that is with the true public support for medical cannabis access and research . Ih spite of what some believe the legalization effort is our best hope to make sure patients obtain equal care under the law not being offered currently due prohibitionists fighting change at all levels and arresting patients . Look at how long the battle over Civil Rights and Jim Crow laws lasted after the Civil War . 100 years were only in year 16 of this one .

[Restorium2]

Putting someone in jail and throwing away the key..... Never thought I would see that on our side. So somebody found the key and let me out after months in prison. There were some heartless people running this place. I hope they don't come back. If they do, always remember the ones in prison, left in the dark cold place, we will always be there waiting for someone to open the door and let us into the light.

[radiostar]

Timmah you are flat wrong and giving bad advice. How did the broom miss you when sweeping this place clean? Get the F_CK OUT! As a mod you shouldn't be giving that kind of advice because people tend to give mods more credibility here. STFU!

[thanks2]

What a fun and exciting time. Through the history of the MMMA we have had many different clicks and cultures come and go. Now each sub culture has been dumped in one big pile of mosh-pitting fun. Just like high school. The MMMA is once again clay in the potters hands, what will be made of it next? A highbred, a place of tolerance and a think tank, or will one pit bull culture snuff out the rest? Interesting times.

[Willy]

My what ??? pseudo-criminal what??? lol to funny. How's asking to clear the issue that was brought up to the mods by showing the books a,,,,, pseudo-criminal behavior ? I could careless about the mod stuff as I was gonna demand ya pull me anyways as I'll have no part in any of this kind of crap.

 

Just clear the issue up and let the folks get back to fighting for their rights.We got 1 side in the issue but nothing from you. Things could be perfectly fine as far as I know, but problem is I don't know and the people don't know.

 

pseudo-criminal behavior

 

who talks like that lord,,,, to funny

 

Just clear the air so the people can get back to trying to save this law. Anyone remember the protest on the 17th lord...................

 

 

 

A lawyer my man!!!

[kruztydj]

yeah I know to funny.. Still no answers I see......

[mizerman]

I doubt that there ever will be any answers.

 

But, I do have to laugh with a little bit of sadistic glee over "the silencing of blueberry"...after he silenced so many others.

 

Aagghh....the sweet stench of irony and karma all rolled up into a steaming pile of sheeeeit.

 

Hugs & Kisses,

 

Mizerman

[Hydraulic Jack]

hello again....HJ

 

It appears that Joke Cain has removed ALL of my past posts.....