The Michigan Medical Marihuana Provisioning Act Hb5580 (dispensary Bill)

[Croppled1]

I highly, highly doubt, that given the Federal climate, that any of the municipalities that choose to allow for caregivers to cultivate in a commercially zoned area, will allow for anything even remotely in the neighborhood of a 1000 plants. That is absurd.

 

Any individual caregiver who would participate in such a large garden, would be foolish to do so, even if the municipality allowed for it.

 

Many municipalities will focus more on distribution and testing, but those who incorporate cultivation will do so in a manner that would minimize th inviting of Federal agents, I would assume.

 

When they attack many dispensary operations in California they go after everyone involved under the veil of conspiracy because they funnel everything through a few limited sales agents . A co-op of patients individual gardens is counted as the sum of all the parts or one large grow with members all individually considered to be involved in a conspiracy distributing the sum total . Opponants seem to have a valid arguement and the Federal 5 year minimum mandatory penalty to threaten participants with . .

 

 

. However in a Farmers Market only a place is provided for individual caregivers to distribute with the sponsor at risk of conspiracy to distribute worst case everyone else is acting alone . When their are sales only the individual caregiver provides product from their legal counts from a grow at a seperate location well under the 99 plant level the Feds target . Everyone disburses it is difficult to prosecute with nobody posing a profitable target for opponants they hate them as much as dispensary advocates . As long as nobody is required to have a membership their is no conspiracy with others but seperate activities that should offer more protection . At least that is the thinking and hope absent court decisions to the contrary from a fixed system . .

 

I wonder if those wanting a Farmers Market could get a special act passed in Ann Arbor for one there ? We should explain this to our legislators the problem is individual caregivers don't have the money to attract Lawyers , expert witnesses , professionals and other officials to their side like the profitable dispensaries do . If you really look at the laws Farmers Markets are the best fit for deriving a method and system of distribution in the current political and legal environment . Now is a good time to plant that seed in legislators and public officials hearts and minds . I doubt any of them have considered the unique benefit Farmers Markets can provide everyone involved in Medical Cannabis .. It is a way to attempt to re introduce free market activities to this overly regulated and artificadlly controlled market segment .

 

 

We all have to try to recognize how living under zero tolerance has effected us , how our understanding of behaviors under illegal recreational use has and to recognize this is medical use not recreational . We are all predjudiced and have hangups to overcome ...all of us . Being older I probally have more then most patients and those who have never had a need or feel threatened by this activity like our legislators the amounts are off the charts . They need to really reflect hard and come to terms with the damage our cannabis laws have done to individuals and medical progress . That we still cling to the idea cannabis has no medical value is ludicrious .

Edited May 3, 2012 by Croppled1

[Fat Freddy]

I just don't understand all the hostility towards this bill. This seems like a fairly reasonable attempt to create a legitimate marketplace for medical marijuana in addition to the existing caregiver system.

 

There is room for Wal-Marts, Meijers, roadside garden stands, and farmer's markets. Why would it be different for medical marijuana? It is true that when a mega-store moves in small businesses can suffer, but there is a flip-side to that coin, too. The reason that small business suffer is largely because the mega stores drive prices down for consumers. In the medical marijuana community consumers=patients, so if mega 'stores/grows' is driving caregivers out of business because they can provide the same medicine for lower prices, then isn't that good for patients? (You know, the ones we all agree this is really about?)

 

This seems to be a complementary distribution channel. I heard an interview with the Senator on public radio. He was admittedly against medical marijuana, but stated that the people clearly want a medical marijuana program in this state, and that this works to solve two problems. First, it provides another access point (in addition to) the current caregiver system (for those who can't find, have trouble with, or simply those who don't want caregivers) while simultaneously creating a legitimate marketplace to keep caregivers' and patients' excess medicine out of the black market. I tend to agree.

 

Contrary to popular belief I am not against the ideal that this bill presents. I just have some difficulty with some of the wording. BS has shown us he is willing to twist things to mean anything he wants it to mean. Therefore clarity of intent the should be everyone's concern. I have raised the issues that I have for that very purpose.

When I see the areas of my concern addressed I would be happy to reread the new draft in full and provide my take on it.

The issues I raised should concern all of us! Remember we have fought an up hill battle now for sometime. Why not join together and suggest some rewording of the areas of concern?

Edited May 3, 2012 by Fat Freddy

[jamieuke]

FF- These concerns can be presented, and requests for changes made to the sponsors of 5580, to the Judiciary Committee and to your own Rep., all of these people will have a vote at some point.

 

The proposed changes and concerns should be well thought out, with the specific language in the bill that is of concern and why it is believed that it needs to be changed.

 

When I originally posted the introduced bill, I mentioned that the process has just begun. Part of the process is offering your thoughts and opinions to the people who will make the decisions about this bill.

 

If a legitimate concern is brought to the attention of a law maker, and he or she believes that a change is necessary, an amendment can be made.

 

 

 

 

[cali2012]

Can u set up where it is zoned agguiculture? .Lot of houses where I live, but is zoned agg. I like it but what ever happen to just selling your services and not MARIJUANA. That why I never got the three judge decision on selling marijuana. Hello it doesn't say anything about selling marijuana in the first place. It's kinda like when u go to head shop and ask to buy a bong they just look at u like your dumb. Then u say water pipe and they are like yeah!

 

[Fat Freddy]

I just don't understand all the hostility towards this bill. This seems like a fairly reasonable attempt to create a legitimate marketplace for medical marijuana in addition to the existing caregiver system.

 

There is room for Wal-Marts, Meijers, roadside garden stands, and farmer's markets. Why would it be different for medical marijuana? It is true that when a mega-store moves in small businesses can suffer, but there is a flip-side to that coin, too. The reason that small business suffer is largely because the mega stores drive prices down for consumers. In the medical marijuana community consumers=patients, so if mega 'stores/grows' is driving caregivers out of business because they can provide the same medicine for lower prices, then isn't that good for patients? (You know, the ones we all agree this is really about?)

 

This seems to be a complementary distribution channel. I heard an interview with the Senator on public radio. He was admittedly against medical marijuana, but stated that the people clearly want a medical marijuana program in this state, and that this works to solve two problems. First, it provides another access point (in addition to) the current caregiver system (for those who can't find, have trouble with, or simply those who don't want caregivers) while simultaneously creating a legitimate marketplace to keep caregivers' and patients' excess medicine out of the black market. I tend to agree.

 

After rereading the proposal and opening my mind to everything I read it seems reasonable enough.

Now all I need is a way to cultivate out doors. imo the sun was provided for the growth of plants by the all mighty. Who am I to go ageist that concept?

[Restorium2]

Don't expect anything good coming from this legislature. They are not up to bat for patients. They are not doing us any favors. If they pass something it will be for someone else, not us. Keep that in the front of your mind.

[peanutbutter]

Then let's be that someone else.

 

What words would protect us as drivers?

[Restorium2]

None. Until the feds fix it. We need to go over their heads to the feds. That's what we also need to do if this dispensary thingy takes a shot at our grow rights.

[abe supercro]

Be someone else literally, from a distance. Drive your brother-in-laws automobile. He'll lone it to you for an extended period of time. Just don't get pulled over, ever.

Edited May 5, 2012 by abe supercro

[Restorium2]

The legislature. I mean, WE CAN"T DRIVE. Our state did that to us. When that happens you contact the feds. When your state does something to hurt you there is only one recourse, the feds.

[bobandtorey]

Then let's be that someone else.

 

What words would protect us as drivers?

 

 

(e) All other acts and parts of acts inconsistent with this act do not apply to the medical use of marihuana as provided for by this act.

[bobandtorey]

Right on. Just making sure you didn't mean the courts. The courts won't likely help us.

their have been many judges that have saw the Law the way it is written

[Restorium2]

We need a video of a legal patient taking a field sobriety test, passing it with flying colors, and still getting put through the system.

[peanutbutter]

(e) All other acts and parts of acts inconsistent with this act do not apply to the medical use of marihuana as provided for by this act.

 

I agree .. but that hasn't worked so far. Not 100%

[peanutbutter]

I think we need to change 7(b)(4):

 

(4) Operate, navigate, or be in actual physical control of any motor vehicle, aircraft, or motorboat while under the influence of marihuana.

 

If this section read "impaired by" instead of "under the influence of" I think it would have been more difficult for any presence law to stand for medical marijuana.

 

That requires a 75% vote. Since this would actually protect patients, I would expect to see resistance.

 

If we were to amend the zero-t law, that should only require a 50% vote.

 

Something like "This act does not apply to the medical use of marihuana" as an amendment to the zero tolerance law.

[peanutbutter]

I do like the idea of going into the public health code and adding exceptions for cardholders, too. I think it is likely that for true protection we'll need both.

 

The 50% will be much easier to get than 75%.

 

IOW more likely to get passed.

Edited May 5, 2012 by peanutbutter

[peanutbutter]

And I don't like leaving the act open to "fixing."

[peanutbutter]

That cat's already out of the bag, sir.

 

I do believe it is to late to get it included in those bills. could be wrong there. I don't expect the Senate would tack on protections for us.

 

I have no desire to present another shot at our law.

[jamieuke]

I think Callton is open to working on this language quite a bit more. What exactly would people want done?

 

 

From what I gather, from here and elsewhere, it would be better to more clearly define cultivation, or remove it altogether from the language, and make it clear that 5580 does not include residences.

 

 

[Dr. Bob]

Just curious,

 

Caregivers and growing patients can and do grow on their private property. Does this bill seem to indicate DESIGNATED grow facilities for the distribution center located in commercial areas, or can caregivers and patients bring in product as well? I've always preferred the 'grain elevator' model of distribution center- where extra product could be taken, graded, and redistributed to patients in need. The other model I really like is the farmers market, how would a FM be allowed under this? Could a permit for a weekend farmers market be a possibility (temp distribution center license vs an annual license). Could a compassion club or other non-profit get a license to run a farmers market style distribution center?

 

The farmers market run by a non-profit would be a great safety valve for patients in the face of commercial distribution centers and would tend to 'keep the commercial centers honest' on prices in the face of non-profit competition. Booth rentals at the FM could help finance the activities of the clubs.

 

Dr. Bob

 

Dr. Bob

[Restorium2]

No cultivation. Only Michigan Patients and Caregivers as suppliers. 5 ounces a month limit on suppliers. That way they can help more growers offset their power bills and stop some of the funny business with out of state supplies.

[Dr. Bob]

Then it should say that. It should say they will be supplied by MICHIGAN caregivers and patients that have overages. And slap a $100,000 fine on them if the get caught buying somewhere else. Just spell it out in plain wording. I would be behind a dispensary like that 100%. And I bet the feds would leave them alone too.

 

This is a very good point. I am just starting to go over this bill but I like the idea of 'grown in Michigan' . I think that the issue on the commercial grow facilities could also be address by limiting what the distribution center could grow for themselves.

 

Example limit non/caregiver (or patient) owned grows (the infamous caregiver with 'overages') supplied product to a specialty garden (growing specialty strains) or such to 99 or fewer plants grown specifically to supply the dispensary.

 

Some other states with dispensary models indicate a percentage of the sales that either can or must come from grows operated by the dispensary itself. Take the other approach and limit the amount the dispensary could grow, essentially forcing it to buy product from existing caregivers and paitents. That could be used to keep commercial grows small, would support the caregiver/patient system (might even start seeing free oz a month again), and help 'spread the wealth' these centers would generate.

 

Addressing the out of state supplies (nothing but trouble as we are surrounded by non-mmj states) by forbidding them will protect the Michigan market and leave it under the control of Michigan. I don't think any of us really wants to get product that comes from the Mexican Cartels.

[Restorium2]

For the protection of the dispensary, no growing at all. Look at it this way, they can only grow 72 there anyway, or they draw the feds. So throw the feds a bone and say no growing. Then the feds don't have to wonder how many plants they have. With a store, I'm sure the feds are going to think that there is way too much potential for cheating the numbers. It would be way too easy for them to glut grow and pass it over the counter. Plus, you can elimenate a ton of wording and rules if you just say they can't grow. We know that a lot of people are going to want to open dispensaries if this passes, all kinds of people, with all kinds of ideas. Nip some of those 'ideas' in the bud and we will be much happier down the road.

[Dr. Bob]

Ok, sorry about the rather disorganized posts, I was going through the postings and commented as I went. Here is a summary of my thoughts.

• Make this 'made in Michigan' product- either grown within the patient caregiver system (overages) being sold to the distribution centers for resale to patients in need (the grain elevator model), or grown by the distribution center at their 'cultivation center'.
  
• Encourage the distribution center to go to the community for product, limit the amount they can grow for themselves in their commercially zoned cultivation facilites. If I can only grow 5 or 10% of the product (by weight) I sell, that is going to be some high dollar specialty strain to agument the more common, medical grade product I can and should be getting from local caregivers. This would encourage the production of a variety of strains.
  
• Allow non-profits to have a 'temp permit' for farmers markets. This will provide booth rental to support the non-profit and give the commercial distribution centers some competition to encourage reasonable prices.
  

Dr. Bob

[Dr. Bob]

For the protection of the dispensary, no growing at all. Look at it this way, they can only grow 72 there anyway, or they draw the feds. So throw the feds a bone and say no growing. Then the feds don't have to wonder how many plants they have. With a store, I'm sure the feds are going to think that there is way too much potential for cheating the numbers. It would be way too easy for them to glut grow and pass it over the counter. Plus, you can elimenate a ton of wording and rules if you just say they can't grow. We know that a lot of people are going to want to open dispensaries if this passes, all kinds of people, with all kinds of ideas. Nip some of those 'ideas' in the bud and we will be much happier down the road.

 

That would simplify things to simply say Michigan Grown by Caregivers and Patients, with no growing by the distribution center. Make them strictly brokerages to redistribute overages to those that need it.