Question Regarding Caregiver Agreements

[pergamum362]

As is mine.I've had the same guy stay with me since the beggining...doesn't complain.never has.he's retired.ill keep him as a patient until he's gone.I don't mind helping people when they need it, but when sumone working at fords making 60 plus a year says they wont sign you unless they get an ounce free every month...it gets under your skin.WERE NOT DRUG DEALERS..your plant "rights" can suck my nutz...I also just pmed a guy who posted on this site..he replied and said he wanted no meds..JUST 3000, DOLLARS for his plant rights.

 

Are you kidding me?

[Willy]

Ms Chocolate, on 04 July 2012 - 04:34 PM, said:

 

The Act states that a patient can grow "up to" 12 plants.

 

A patient can also transfer their right to have plants to a caregiver.

 

Does the patient have to right to say to the caregiver that their usage will only require 1-2 plants monthly? Is the caregiver then restricted to maintaining 2 plants in flowering and 2 in veg each month?

 

If a limit is not stated in the agreement, can 12 plants be grown in the patient’s name when only 2 plants are needed? If so, why should the patient be forced to compensated the caregiver for unneeded material?

 

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That is something i never consider is the plant count,except limiting due to legal restrictions, i dont see the balance here.. i ask patients what there usuage is, not how many plants they want me to grow, As a cg that is my priority to provide enough meds to keep my patient with an uninterupted supply

 

 

, if it was plant count i would be taking a whole plant over to the patient and let them do the drying, trimming and run the risk that the plant has over 2.5 ozs, a real problem huh.. however my patients ask for x.x amount , my job is to supply and assist them.. i have done pickups at stores, dishes and even clean up around the home... but i have never said how many plants you want me to grow for you... As the cg i know what to grow to supply them.. I dont agree that there their plants,, i bought them , i grow them,, i grow on there behalf, and its under there name,, as it states up to 12 plants to supply there needs. I will destroy plants as needs come and go.. and never had a complaint from any of my patients..Unless a patient pays for or brings clones or seeds, I only represent there grow,, not actually growing there plants,,

 

Its simple grow what they need, ask for fair compensation... if a cg has extra and finds a home for it,, it is going to another patient, why would the other patient complain,, because they want the money.... greed is for patients too....JMHO

 

 

OH ya and patients dont compensate for anything they dont use or take.. how can a patient pay for more plants than they used,, no one charges by the plant...or do they now ... lol

[trix]

There would be no Cg growing for anyone not 1 not 5 (legaly), if their wasn't a Pt involved. just saying

 

I fully agree Cg's derseve their compansion for what they do, and the risks they take doing what they do.

 

I have grown in the past, I understand the cost, and the risk involved and Also have seen the inside of a court room due to my growing marijuana... No one came pushing 100's in my face to help with situation at that time, I fully agree CG deserve to be compensated.

 

On the other side of it, comes the Pt, along with being a Pt come disabilites you never know what is going on day to day unless your best buds or family. Then you have low income Pt's, this isn't the Pt's fault in a majority of cases, add the stress of your disibilites whatever they maybe and you could get up with irrational thinking.

 

I have witnessed first hand (family) come home from the Cert Dr. with their paperwork, and have them tell me that you should be getting "free" medicine.. These are stories that have been spread like a bad humor, and hurmors spread then eventualy they end up becoming truths to the people that don't have the slightest clue because they are new to the program, or have their beliefs that the plants cost money or bud one or the other..

 

I won't lie I had those thoughts when I became a Pt.. then I grew my own and learned that just isn't reality.. it comes with great risk to be a caregiver of a schedule 1 drug, there is alot to lose and w/o compensation or a gaurentee of full legal support, even that wouldn't matter much, but if you have never had to face those challenges then you have no clue what a CG does.

 

Thanks to all you Quality , Honest Caregivers, and best wishes to all the Pt's do many interviews before entering into something that you don't feel is adaqute for you. Try the product, get to know the Caregiver first if you feel sketchy talk about it or walk away from it. Good luck

 

my 2c.

 

Trix

[Hayduke]

Ms Chocolate, on 04 July 2012 - 04:34 PM, said:

 

The Act states that a patient can grow "up to" 12 plants.

 

A patient can also transfer their right to have plants to a caregiver.

 

Does the patient have to right to say to the caregiver that their usage will only require 1-2 plants monthly? Is the caregiver then restricted to maintaining 2 plants in flowering and 2 in veg each month?

 

If a limit is not stated in the agreement, can 12 plants be grown in the patient’s name when only 2 plants are needed? If so, why should the patient be forced to compensated the caregiver for unneeded material?

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

That is something i never consider is the plant count,except limiting due to legal restrictions, i dont see the balance here.. i ask patients what there usuage is, not how many plants they want me to grow, As a cg that is my priority to provide enough meds to keep my patient with an uninterupted supply

 

 

, if it was plant count i would be taking a whole plant over to the patient and let them do the drying, trimming and run the risk that the plant has over 2.5 ozs, a real problem huh.. however my patients ask for x.x amount , my job is to supply and assist them.. i have done pickups at stores, dishes and even clean up around the home... but i have never said how many plants you want me to grow for you... As the cg i know what to grow to supply them.. I dont agree that there their plants,, i bought them , i grow them,, i grow on there behalf, and its under there name,, as it states up to 12 plants to supply there needs. I will destroy plants as needs come and go.. and never had a complaint from any of my patients..Unless a patient pays for or brings clones or seeds, I only represent there grow,, not actually growing there plants,,

 

Its simple grow what they need, ask for fair compensation... if a cg has extra and finds a home for it,, it is going to another patient, why would the other patient complain,, because they want the money.... greed is for patients too....JMHO

 

 

OH ya and patients dont compensate for anything they dont use or take.. how can a patient pay for more plants than they used,, no one charges by the plant...or do they now ... lol

 

exactly my position, Ms Chocolate. Thank you for your usual common sense approach....

[SFC]

I always have had one "free" patient. That is the patient in the #1 slot or basically the one that has been with me the longest. Now with this freedom comes limits and if for some reason I start feeling like I am being taken for granted I will end it.

 

I also agree that many would be CG's and patients that figured growing would be easy have found out it is not.

[Ms Chocolate]

I asked the question I did for several reasons. I founded and ran an “EDUCATIONAL” group; as well as visiting other groups and hosting workshops. I have heard a number of ways caregivers and patients were dealing with one another. More than a few had me saying “WTF”. I did hear of a patient with a very, very limited need’ yet the CG wanted the patient to pay for the equipment, and the cost of maintaining 12 plants. This was the only time I interfered. I have no idea of the outcome. I have also heard of situation where the patient expected free meds, based on the assumption that since they did not need the fruits of 12 plants, the overage was sold in the blackmarket. Greed, assumptions, ignorant, and illegal intentions are not productive modes of operations.

 

My input was to say – as a patient, pick a caregiver who you trust. Know the where, when, how, and want it is you want. Be exact on how much you can afford to spend to meet your need. Write out every detail. If you find that what you want is beyond your expected income, don’t look for the CG to carry you, downsizes your needs. A CG should writ down what they are actually able to deliver. After the parties compare their list, completing an agreement should be easy.

[SFC]

That is excellent advice Ms Chocolate!

[Celliach]

When new patients contact the DCCC we give them a list of CGs and tell them to shop around. Different CGs have different qualities, prices and personalities. You need to find a good "fit" for you.

[pergamum362]

The expectations of caregivers paying(free?) for patients meds needs to end.<-----...honestly how many of the patients who signed soomeone because they offered free meds ended up empty handed? ...I'm just ranting..sorry folks...looking for a new patient and its prooving difficult.

[SFC]

I feel for those that really want to become caregivers but either are not a patient themselves or do not have close friend/friends to become patients. To place your trust and potentially freedom in the hands of a complete stranger is a huge leap of faith, one that I would not be able to do myself.

 

On the patients side of the coin it hardly seems fair that someone should be the guinea pig for a new grower looking to earn their stripes either. There is a learning curve to growing fine medicinal grade cannabis. Hell, I know guys that have been growing for 2 an d3 years now that still cannot do it. Let alone those that are constantly fighting the "Borg" (spider mites)..

[Celliach]

Honestly, I've met outdoor growers up here in the UP that have been growing for 20 years and they still don't know what they're doing. When I first moved to where I currently live everyone told me about this guy outside of town that grew the best weed around here and were talking up how good it was. It took me six months to get inside their confidence and I was finally invited out to the farm. They were growing what I classify as ditch weed, and we are so isolated up here that everyone thought that was good smoke!

 

Things have changed around here since then. I was told the farmer was sitting on pounds of product last harvest and was selling it off at half his normal price.

[SFC]

Absolutely. I dove in to indoor circa 2002, the heyday of Overgrow, cannabisworld, etc. There were a ton of awesome underground growers sharing their grows and sharing their knowledge. It was a great time to learn. That was before it seemed like big brother google was logging our every move. Matter of fact google was just a baby then too.

[michaelscott]

If this act is for the patients where does a patient seeking minimal amounts find a caregiver. Why would a caregiver take on a patient that needs a quarter a month? What are these patients supposed to do?

[SFC]

A patient that needs a minimal amount should have very little problem. They would conceivably be easiest to help. Hell, many CG's I am confident would even sign on a low use patient without taking plant rights. Many of us are not using our full allotment of plants anyway.

[Celliach]

If this act is for the patients where does a patient seeking minimal amounts find a caregiver. Why would a caregiver take on a patient that needs a quarter a month? What are these patients supposed to do?

 

That's all one of my patients uses. Why did I take him on? Because he has prostate cancer and needs help. I'm a caregiver, not a drug dealer.

[pergamum362]

I would gladly take on a low use patient.I get more than enough from my current plant count.I. have14 plant spots empty...problem is no one is asking for what they need..they just want ONE FREE oz a month.Its understandable if your on disability,ssi, etc but its not your "right" to get an ounce free simply because you qualify to be. A mm patient. GREAT HONEST CAREGIVER RIGHT HERE<-------

[Willy]

It's simple,there are so many rumors or just flat out BS, Free oz is one of them, with the idea that the caregiver can "sell" to someone else, that the plant count is worth something to the CG, so if its worth something then they(new patient" want something too! this is something that needs to be sorted out, these "patients" dont think any further than what they can get from a cg for free, Its the thought that the cg is getting rich off of "SELLING" to someone else the extra,, however.. lets look at that scenario, according to the law its as schutte interprets is ,, you can't get any compensation from anyone other than your 5 patients, Guess what, most patients dont use enough to cover the cost of growing for them, plus an oz a month is all they need, so the, "and any after is" ,, never happens, besides cost of growing, risk of loosing cash, tv,computer, freedom, home, or just outright being killed by leo! Does that sound fair, we grow, we help, and risk our freedom and our very lives to do this. IS it so bad to ask simply for fair compensation??? And not even considering the cost of a multiple patient grow.. as anyone that does this knows, thats not cheap either..

 

With the internet propagating the idea that all meds should be either free, and or that caregivers are getting rich, all over it.. I have to assume then that all caregivers are 1. really rich and just grow for fun because its not legal to sell. Or 2. grow, put out thousands of dollars and give away meds, and or selling it illegally and getting rich.. I dont know a single rich cg, and I surely dont know any that are dilberately breaking the law..or getting rich..

 

Want to find a rich person involved with the movement, next time talk to the hydro store guy, and you can see were the money is, follow the money they say.. well i followed it, my local hydro thats were all the money goes.. But hey lets all start a hydro store!! Thats were the money really is....

 

And as another cg stated, yo donbt need 72 plants to help 5 patient, you can do it with much less, i help 5 patients with merely 12 plants, a single patient count.. And have un allocated meds left over. so go figure..

[Highlander]

It's simple,there are so many rumors or just flat out BS, Free oz is one of them, with the idea that the caregiver can "sell" to someone else, that the plant count is worth something to the CG, so if its worth something then they(new patient" want something too! this is something that needs to be sorted out, these "patients" dont think any further than what they can get from a cg for free, Its the thought that the cg is getting rich off of "SELLING" to someone else the extra,, however.. lets look at that scenario, according to the law its as schutte interprets is ,, you can't get any compensation from anyone other than your 5 patients, Guess what, most patients dont use enough to cover the cost of growing for them, plus an oz a month is all they need, so the, "and any after is" ,, never happens, besides cost of growing, risk of loosing cash, tv,computer, freedom, home, or just outright being killed by leo! Does that sound fair, we grow, we help, and risk our freedom and our very lives to do this. IS it so bad to ask simply for fair compensation??? And not even considering the cost of a multiple patient grow.. as anyone that does this knows, thats not cheap either..

 

With the internet propagating the idea that all meds should be either free, and or that caregivers are getting rich, all over it.. I have to assume then that all caregivers are 1. really rich and just grow for fun because its not legal to sell. Or 2. grow, put out thousands of dollars and give away meds, and or selling it illegally and getting rich.. I dont know a single rich cg, and I surely dont know any that are dilberately breaking the law..or getting rich..

 

Want to find a rich person involved with the movement, next time talk to the hydro store guy, and you can see were the money is, follow the money they say.. well i followed it, my local hydro thats were all the money goes.. But hey lets all start a hydro store!! Thats were the money really is....

 

And as another cg stated, yo donbt need 72 plants to help 5 patient, you can do it with much less, i help 5 patients with merely 12 plants, a single patient count.. And have un allocated meds left over. so go figure..

 

 

One position I got so sick of hearing was "you can get waaay more than I need from My 12 plants, so you, the CG, can just sell the extras." I developed the following response.

 

"If we're talking about what meds are grown from YOUR 12 plants, then we need to talk about how long we'll have to wait for YOUR plants to produce YOUR meds. First we need to start from seed, because I can't take a cutting from someone else's plant, right - that wouldn't be fair. Figure on two weeks in seedling stage, then 4 weeks in veg, nine weeks to flower, one week to dry, four weeks to cure. So YOUR meds will be ready from YOUR plants in 20 weeks."

[LansingAreaCaregiver]

One position I got so sick of hearing was "you can get waaay more than I need from My 12 plants, so you, the CG, can just sell the extras." I developed the following response.

 

"If we're talking about what meds are grown from YOUR 12 plants, then we need to talk about how long we'll have to wait for YOUR plants to produce YOUR meds. First we need to start from seed, because I can't take a cutting from someone else's plant, right - that wouldn't be fair. Figure on two weeks in seedling stage, then 4 weeks in veg, nine weeks to flower, one week to dry, four weeks to cure. So YOUR meds will be ready from YOUR plants in 20 weeks."

 

 

[kathys]

EXACTLY, my question too. I know I don't get my full 12 plants yields.

[Celliach]

I have three patients and myself. I do NOT grow 48 plants. I grow enough to supply the four of us and that's it. If I grew more than that it would just cause trouble for me.

[Kilo810]

Agreed^^^^^ Patients, what you need to understand in all this time at the current donation rates, we make less than minimum wage for everything we do, dont add insult to injury by asking for freebies, its absolutely insane to me to think that because you dont want to, can't, or dont have the room to grow your own you can just pass the work off onto someone else for free. This isn't the Military. And honestly we dont have to sign you up. I only grow for honest people that are willing to donate for what is done for them. nothing else. I am honest and take care of my patients whenever they need. I can't believe how out of control this systme has gotten. We need to network together and set a darn standard that even the worse patients cant break us from.

[Kilo810]

By system I mean a board of CGs to determine who qualifies for free stuff, sets donation rates so nobody is getting screwed, keeps reliable CGs together to make sure Patient supply is handled properly. Ect. I have had this idea for a while and if anyone is interested please get ahold of me. I will be more than willing to try to get something going.

[Kilo810]

Maybe we can even get the state to sanction this effort to set a more prominent standard for the system that is apparently way to flawed.

[michaelscott]

What about the patients perspective. Where I live a patient has the option of walking into a store and choosing from several options and forms. Why does that patient choose to lock himself down to one caregiver. The only reason I can figure is price and freebies.

 

I am just saying that if I was just a patient I dont think I would want to give my plant rights away unless for some altrustic reason. Generally I would go with the most options. I dont feel a single caregiver could give me enough options, at least not of they were following the act. Variety is the spice of life.

 

I'm not saying anything about the legal issues just an opinion on what a patients perspective might be.