Question Regarding Caregiver Agreements

[Kingdiamond]

 

 

I am just saying that if I was just a patient I dont think I would want to give my plant rights away unless for some altrustic reason.

 

How does a caregiver get any advantage by getting ones plant rights?

 

With no legal venue to move unused medicine theres no gain for the caregiver those 12 plants don't grow themselves how will the caregiver be able to pay the cost associated with growing if there is no way financially even things out from outside sources ?

 

 

I'm not talking about getting rich im talking about keeping myself out of the red on a monthly basis.

[michaelscott]

 

 

How does a caregiver get any advantage by getting ones plant rights?

 

With no legal venue to move unused medicine theres no gain for the caregiver those 12 plants don't grow themselves how will the caregiver be able to pay the cost associated with growing if there is no way financially even things out from outside sources ?

 

 

I'm not talking about getting rich im talking about keeping myself out of the red on a monthly basis.

 

The advantage is a patient, a patient that only comes to you. What is the advantage for a patient?

 

as a patient I would prefer to get the best of what 20 caregivers have to offer instead of one.

 

Where I live several venues exist that are legitimized by local authorities. This gives patients more options and less of a reason to sign with a caregiver at all.

 

I understand that if these places did not exist it would force more patients to sign with a single caregiver and free meds would not even be talked about. .

 

 

 

 

[michaelscott]

Also I did get a few pms about taking on my patients and will get back to you. I just think for them it might be better to have me go to one of those venues every so often for them.

 

[Kingdiamond]

The advantage is a patient, a patient that only comes to you. What is the advantage for a patient?

 

as a patient I would prefer to get the best of what 20 caregivers have to offer instead of one.

 

Where I live several venues exist that are legitimized by local authorities. This gives patients more options and less of a reason to sign with a caregiver at all.

 

I understand that if these places did not exist it would force more patients to sign with a single caregiver and free meds would not even be talked about. .

 

Yes but if that patient only comes to you for freebies and offers no donation costs it does little to help the grower recoup grow costs as for the farmer markets very few and far between and if your not in that area you must drive cross state and who knows when the feds will choose to make an appearance .

[ozzrokk]

Yea but Kilo. You can't really set a restriction or regulation on that. Too many different variables.

 

The last thing we need is state restrictions and regulations. The LAST THING WE NEED. That being said.

 

You cannot set restrictions and regulations because ,believe it or not, Some actually can and do grow for patients without recouping costs. God bless em when they can and do. I know I cannot. But some can.

 

I agree the free incentive is out of hand and is not truly the standard. Yet some don't realize this yet. And should the RIGHTFUL ruling come out of the Supreme Court. That standard may in fact become a reality. But until that day it is one of two things One is the person has that ability to do it ,provide free meds that is. That's great. Or two you get strung along.Better to just find a good caregiver. If you have other options and can afford that then that's cool. But many do not have that option or cannot or do not want to afford that option. And that points them towards a good caregiver.

 

Honesty is the key. As long as both agree it's a good deal.

Edited July 13, 2012 by ozzrokk

[pergamum362]

I don't understand..signing a caregiver does not mean you cant buy it from other venues.you are not restricted to just your cg.but hey if you like the disp route then by all means use it.your still helping the caregivers.disp will pay 250-300 for an ounce, but I don't kno too many legitimate patients that can afford 100 plus dollar quarters regularly.

[Kilo810]

What about the patients perspective. Where I live a patient has the option of walking into a store and choosing from several options and forms. Why does that patient choose to lock himself down to one caregiver. The only reason I can figure is price and freebies.

 

I am just saying that if I was just a patient I dont think I would want to give my plant rights away unless for some altrustic reason. Generally I would go with the most options. I dont feel a single caregiver could give me enough options, at least not of they were following the act. Variety is the spice of life.

 

I'm not saying anything about the legal issues just an opinion on what a patients perspective might be.

 

First is cost, a cg is not going to ask for nearly as much for a zip. Secondly According to state law it still illegal for dispensaries to even be open. Thirdly, you dont know the quality of the meds your technically purchasing from the dispensary, could have come from anyone an who knows what they do to the plants??? Really what to risk smoking carcinogen?

 

What I mean by regulations is that we band together and set up a system to provide free meds to those that truly need it (with a board decision) and we can set a standard Donation rate fro everyone else. Like a huge network to make sure everyone is stocked nobody is getting ripped off, and making sure pts dont go without. We can also set up a quality control board to check out grows, complaints, and make sure everything is up to snuff. WHy not take the responsibility ourselves instead of waiting for the state to forcce it on us? its just a matter of Time.

[michaelscott]

 

 

First is cost, a cg is not going to ask for nearly as much for a zip. Secondly According to state law it still illegal for dispensaries to even be open. Thirdly, you dont know the quality of the meds your technically purchasing from the dispensary, could have come from anyone an who knows what they do to the plants??? Really what to risk smoking carcinogen?

 

What I mean by regulations is that we band together and set up a system to provide free meds to those that truly need it (with a board decision) and we can set a standard Donation rate fro everyone else. Like a huge network to make sure everyone is stocked nobody is getting ripped off, and making sure pts dont go without. We can also set up a quality control board to check out grows, complaints, and make sure everything is up to snuff. WHy not take the responsibility ourselves instead of waiting for the state to forcce it on us? its just a matter of Time.

 

First, wrong

PlentyOf avenues were you are getting prices direct from caregiver,

Second irrelevant

the fact is they exist with little risk to patient

Thirdly

I'll take a homemade apple pie over a store bought any day, even if the ingredients aren't listed

 

what you talk about is setting up a cartel with price controls, great for the patient. I love how opec helps us out.

 

 

[pergamum362]

Caregiver(grower) union.aren't they doing something like this in Cal?

[pergamum362]

I don't want people to think I'm insencitive to patients, some of there situations and there needs.I do my share of compassionate acts for those that need it, but I will not be taken advantage of.

[Celliach]

Maybe we can even get the state to sanction this effort to set a more prominent standard for the system that is apparently way to flawed.

 

The less regulation the state does the better off we are.

[Highlander]

The less regulation the state does the better off we are.

 

Ditto. MDCH used every single day they had to kick off the program. By law, they could have started accepting applications and printing cards any time after Dec 9, 2008. Instead they waited until the very last day the law allowed for them to start accepting applications in April 2009. And if you think they were off to a bad start, it got worse. Someone said something about a broken printer a few times, and cards started getiing mailed out 6-9 months late. Mind you, the law doesn't say that MDCH must issue a crappy plastic card with no photo; there is no reason they couldn't send a letter instead. Then someone after 2.5 years had the brilliant idea that sending temporary letters would be a great way to address the problem as they got caught up printing cards with TWO, count them slowly, TWO printers. Cards are still late. The dept. still hasn't implemented a program to review/add new qualifying conditions.

 

Why would we give them something else to work on?

Edited July 14, 2012 by Highlander

[pergamum362]

^

|

Lol

[Jay33]

At the Dickinson County Compassion Club we actually encourage caregivers to take on one patient that cannot afford their medicine. I currently have four registered patients and I supply one with free medicine. I don't see why every caregiver couldn't do this.

 

There's an organization in California called the Green Cross that accepts donations of medicine from growers and dispensaries so that it can be distributed for free to low income patients. I'm not sure on the legality of something like that in Michigan. I can tell you I do wish it was legal to run something like the Green Cross here because I think it's an awesome idea.

 

 

Exactly! And thats admirable! My first cg was a husband an wife combo, each had their allowed 5 patients per registered care giver. Out of 9 other patients who were paying them their "donation prices" these 2 told me they just could afford to give away "free" meds. Bull they were just greedy and no better then going to the block for your cannabis!

[Jay33]

 

 

 

Can I borrow this for patients who approach me looking for free meds? I started a thread a little bit ago, but never posted it, about how this is the most frustrating part of being a caregiver for me. I would say that 90% of potential patients I talk to expect meds for free. I try to be as polite and professional as possible and explain that I charge a very fair price for a great product and service, that under the current interpretation of the law there are no safe and legal outlets to dispose of 'overages', and that I simply can't put my family at risk to provide Joe Schmo with free meds. Still, many of these folks get downright ticked off that you won't grow for them for free, accusing you of seeing only . I've had more than a few rude, curse filled messages thrown my way. In my experience the folks who seem to think they 'deserve' free meds are actually the least deserving, most demanding, least appreciative patients out there. They are the ones who have no problem getting their 'free' med allotment from you every month and then demanding several ounces more at dirt cheap prices so they can hook up their friends. They don't comprehend why you aren't willing to simply grow as much as possible and sell it to whoever wants it.

 

And here is the thing, I don't necessarily have a problem with growing for a patient for free...if the circumstances warrant it and they appreciate it. I understand that many folks are struggling right now, many patients are on disability and simply can't afford much if anything. There s nothing wrong with that, and nothing wrong with asking for the best possible deal. But the entitlement attitude of those who simply don't WANT to pay really really irks me. Not only is it disrespectful of the caregiver's time, effort and investment, their willingness to flaunt the law is bad for MM in general.

 

I can see your point as well. I never demanded nor expected free meds. But anyone who I was looking at as a prospective cg I told my currently financial situations and what I needed and could do, and that's been my entire point this morning. I think both patient and cg should sit down come to agreements, discuss donations, ect. It's when you tell a CG your current situation an they don't care, take you in and then rape you in the process and act like the patient is the problem.

[Highlander]

I can see your point as well. I never demanded nor expected free meds. But anyone who I was looking at as a prospective cg I told my currently financial situations and what I needed and could do, and that's been my entire point this morning. I think both patient and cg should sit down come to agreements, discuss donations, ect. It's when you tell a CG your current situation an they don't care, take you in and then rape you in the process and act like the patient is the problem.

 

When you're interviewing prospective CG's if you are talking to a guy who doesn't care, "but will take you in," he is someone to stay away from. There are a lot of good caregivers out there. But there are some con artists, just like in every walk of life. Maybe you need help interviewing and should bring a friend when you meet a prospective CG?

[Jay33]

 

 

When you're interviewing prospective CG's if you are talking to a guy who doesn't care, "but will take you in," he is someone to stay away from. There are a lot of good caregivers out there. But there are some con artists, just like in every walk of life. Maybe you need help interviewing and should bring a friend when you meet a prospective CG?

 

Right right, but there's also CGs who talk a good game until ya sign with them and then things change as well. The last one I had was a great guy no complaints, just got sick of seeing where this program is heading.

[Restorium2]

Right right, but there's also CGs who talk a good game until ya sign with them and then things change as well. The last one I had was a great guy no complaints, just got sick of seeing where this program is heading.

And where is it heading?

[Jay33]

 

And where is it heading?

 

Down a slippery slope. Still not suppose too drive, not too mention the slew of proposed bills that yes won't see day light till after election season. I see stuff like this cg's and patients at end with each other when we are suppose too be unified, instead we are slamming each other over what one can and can not afford, ridiculous pricing that's far from compassionate. The MI supreme court ruling was great but the legislators can and will continue on with their push too make the law as unworkable as possible. Nothing will change till congress takes action. Theres a new bill in congress right now to support the states mmj laws. The truth in trials act.

[Jay33]

I didn't respond to these posts too flame on CG's at all. My points where that just as its costly and ect too be someone's CG it's just as hard for patients, most of us anyway are low income or fixed income. We all know there's a cost and it's not cheap, and people lie and blow smoke at ya under the guise of "compassion" , so it's not always easy for us either to weed out the wrong ones.

[SFC]

Hey, I think there is a farmers market in southern part of the state that one guy gives away all of his meds to patients at no cost. I forget what city it is in, but maybe he can help you.

[Highlander]

I didn't respond to these posts too flame on CG's at all. My points where that just as its costly and ect too be someone's CG it's just as hard for patients, most of us anyway are low income or fixed income. We all know there's a cost and it's not cheap, and people lie and blow smoke at ya under the guise of "compassion" , so it's not always easy for us either to weed out the wrong ones.

 

It is true that few people find it worth the time, cost, risk and responsibility to grow/dry/trim/cure/extract/cook cannabis.

 

It is a lot like doctors, really. They spend a lot of time and money to learn something difficult that carries with it great responsibility. Some offer nothing to poor people for free, some offer discounted services, free/discounted monthly clinics in rural areas, and some actually fly to really crappy parts of the world and treat large numbers of people who need it more than most.

 

We all know about the problem. More help is needed than what is available. So what is the real solution? Not free meds, but more growers, with an emphasis on personal grows.

 

I have heard a lot of "I can't grow because..." Well, I've seen a lot of people struggle just to complete daily tasks. Growing can be another daily task.

 

Do this: Post an ad saying "I want a CG who will let me keep my plants and teach me how to grow so I can be a compassionate CG too. I may or may not have a place of my own to grow in, so I might need help finding a rental place where I can grow."

 

The CGs that answer this (and they will) will be the CGs who are looking to help others but not give it away for free.

 

Or maybe there is something you can offer in return. Can you sit in a chair and trim meds? Help clean up? Take some material and make edibles to be given to other patients?

 

I have seen many posts that say, more or less " I can't grow, and I can't afford to pay someone to grow for me." Never once have I seen, "but I can do x,y,z to help out."

 

This is a great time of year to learn to pressure can fresh vegetables. Any other ideas?

Edited July 22, 2012 by Highlander

[Jay33]

Not a bad thought either. I would have been eager and willing too help out with the process. But when I offered, was told no. But I can agree with that absolutely then the patient can truly get a understanding of how much work it is as well. Hey like I said I know it's not easy and there's a lot that goes into it, that wasn't my complaint at all. Ridiculous pricing and treating patients like money pits was my concern and complaint.

[SFC]

Harvesting/trimming in particular just plain sucks. It actually has even now a bit of silver lining when you see a beautiful fresh trimmed bud, but overall it still sucks. It takes hour after hour to complete, is tedious, painful and just plain boring. But even little things like transplanting , taking cuts, watering, going and getting supplies,supplying meds to your patients, etc, etc. It may not be a 8 hour a day type gig but it is a 16 hour a day in the back of your head mixed with real hours of labor.

[LansingAreaCaregiver]

Harvesting/trimming in particular just plain sucks. It actually has even now a bit of silver lining when you see a beautiful fresh trimmed bud, but overall it still sucks. It takes hour after hour to complete, is tedious, painful and just plain boring. But even little things like transplanting , taking cuts, watering, going and getting supplies,supplying meds to your patients, etc, etc. It may not be a 8 hour a day type gig but it is a 16 hour a day in the back of your head mixed with real hours of labor.

 

You only think about it 16 hours a day? Lucky! I recently started having dreams about it. Not joking. Working in the grow room, signing on patients, etc. all played out in my dreams (of course with the altered dream reality factored in. So what if my new patient has a dragon for a head, or that I'm riding my flying refrigerator on a delivery?)