Question Regarding Caregiver Agreements

[Agouti]

I do not know if this is standard practice, and I don't believe I am violating any forum rules, as overages are not being discussed here, but this violates something, I apologize, and meant no ill intent.

 

I've been looking for a caregiver and a patient to grow for me, and instead of having an overage, they'd get some of the crop, as they are a patient too. What I'm curious about, is if I were to request a monthly amount, how much should I get per month, and is it measured in mass or as a percent of the harvest? Any help here would be appreciated as I'm totally clueless to the norms of this. Just general ballparks; I don't want to get taken advantage of.

[Restorium2]

I do not know if this is standard practice, and I don't believe I am violating any forum rules, as overages are not being discussed here, but this violates something, I apologize, and meant no ill intent.

 

I've been looking for a caregiver and a patient to grow for me, and instead of having an overage, they'd get some of the crop, as they are a patient too. What I'm curious about, is if I were to request a monthly amount, how much should I get per month, and is it measured in mass or as a percent of the harvest? Any help here would be appreciated as I'm totally clueless to the norms of this. Just general ballparks; I don't want to get taken advantage of.

It's better to pay a small amount for your meds than try to leverage your grow rights into free stuff. That 'leveraging' usually gets people into trouble.

[Agouti]

Legal trouble, or I'd be getting taken advantage of? I don't see myself as able to grow my on for a very long time, due to housing issues, and I'm a college student who really can't afford to smoke. Can I ever get those rights back at a later time (years)?

[Restorium2]

Legal trouble, or I'd be getting taken advantage of? I don't see myself as able to grow my on for a very long time, due to housing issues, and I'm a college student who really can't afford to smoke. Can I ever get those rights back at a later time (years)?

You would be taking advantage of someone else's hard work. They would have to turn somewhere to pay for the grow. That would be illegal and cause risk. You are better off paying your own way to your medicine. Nothing is free. There should be a small price for your medicine or some funny business is taking place. Only the most destitute and sick will get their meds for free. Some of them even go wanting.

[Highlander]

When I have been approached by patients asking for free meds, I tell them this:

 

There are four general kinds of caregivers:

 

1. CG who works for cheap/free for a family member of friend and who helps out of compassion - not for the money.

2. CG who collects a reasonable compensation from a patient

3. CG is either new or incompetent, and he needs more than 12 plants/patient to keep meds supplied to his existing patients.

4. CG who grows for free for patients and then sells to people not registered to him.

 

If you select #3 or #4, consider three things:

 

1. Your CG is motivated by money - not compassion. You'll be the first one out of meds when he runs into issues

2. If your CG knows soooo many other patients to sell "overages" to, why wouldn't he just sign up one of those guys instead of seeking a new patient.

3. If your CG gets busted for selling outside of his registered patients, what are you going to do when he tells LEO and the PA that "I had a deal going with patient X" in order to try to get softer treatment.

4. Do you care if your CG is selling to unregistered people?

5. Why are you so special, that some stranger would sign you up as a patient for free? yet the other patients he deals with have to pay?

 

Free meds are a fallacy. Someone pays for those meds. Why do people think it is ethical to hit up a stranger for free meds, all the while expecting some other patient to pick up the bill? If patients "deserve" free meds, then there is nobody to pay the grower's cost except for black market buyers. See?

Edited May 26, 2012 by Highlander

[Highlander]

They would have to turn somewhere to pay for the grow. That would be illegal and cause risk.

 

I always get a good laugh when a patient seeking free meds says "well, maybe there's a CG who can't keep up with existing demand, so he needs another 12 plants, and since I don't use the harvest from 12 plants all by myself, that leaves some extra for the other patients."

 

The obvious question is: "If the CG can't service a patient's needs with 12 plants, why on earth would you sign him up to be your CG?"

Edited May 21, 2012 by Highlander

[tooldini]

Restorium is totally correct and so are the rest of you. Free meds seem to add up to no good and will usually get you nothing. I know of a patient friend that has gone thru a couple CG due to stuff like getting very little to none and totally junk medicine just pay an amount to help the grower it is not free to grow and requires quit a bit of work sometimes

[Celliach]

At the Dickinson County Compassion Club we actually encourage caregivers to take on one patient that cannot afford their medicine. I currently have four registered patients and I supply one with free medicine. I don't see why every caregiver couldn't do this.

 

There's an organization in California called the Green Cross that accepts donations of medicine from growers and dispensaries so that it can be distributed for free to low income patients. I'm not sure on the legality of something like that in Michigan. I can tell you I do wish it was legal to run something like the Green Cross here because I think it's an awesome idea.

[hgmedman]

I cg for a good friend with ms. He is my only patient and I also grow for myself. I don't charge him for anything so long as he uses less than an oz. a month. Over an ounce I will ask a small donatation to help with costs. By me being able to grow his and my plants, I can harvest a couple plants a month and we won't run out of meds. When I was buying my meds at a dispensary I was paying around $400 a month. Paying for neuts and electricity doesn't even come close to that. The way I look at it is that I am saving money and passing it on to a friend who needs the meds for his well being. I'm not getting compensated for my time, but it is a decision I made to help a friend.

[beourbud]

I cg for a good friend with ms. He is my only patient and I also grow for myself. I don't charge him for anything so long as he uses less than an oz. a month. Over an ounce I will ask a small donatation to help with costs. By me being able to grow his and my plants, I can harvest a couple plants a month and we won't run out of meds. When I was buying my meds at a dispensary I was paying around $400 a month. Paying for neuts and electricity doesn't even come close to that. The way I look at it is that I am saving money and passing it on to a friend who needs the meds for his well being. I'm not getting compensated for my time, but it is a decision I made to help a friend.

 

Right On

[wingdings]

Im in a similar situation I am a cg for a family member for free and myself it is certainly a lot cheaper than buying meds not to mention I have quality control so i know its all organic and healthy. My hard work is compensated, just not financially. Peace of mind that i am keeping a family member safe from Rx is worth more.

But what the op is asking for seems like they are the ones looking to take advantage. and then to say you just dont want to be taken advantage of? You are foolish to think a cg is that stupid.

Edited May 25, 2012 by wingdings

[MasterKush]

Pretty much everyone who has answered is on point. It is not free to grow medical grade marijuana. A good, reliable, caregiver will spend quite a bit of money on making sure you have a uninterrupted supply of medicine. Why should they have to pay, and not you? If you were to go into the pharmacy and ask them for free vicodin or oxycontin what do you think they would say?

 

"Excuse me, Mr. pharmacist, I would like to get my prescription for free, you could just charge another person filling their prescription more so it would cover my costs."

 

I dont think that would fly.

[mrd]

Pretty much everyone who has answered is on point. It is not free to grow medical grade marijuana. A good, reliable, caregiver will spend quite a bit of money on making sure you have a uninterrupted supply of medicine. Why should they have to pay, and not you? If you were to go into the pharmacy and ask them for free vicodin or oxycontin what do you think they would say?

 

"Excuse me, Mr. pharmacist, I would like to get my prescription for free, you could just charge another person filling their prescription more so it would cover my costs."

 

I dont think that would fly.

 

Well that was way too clear and logical!

[Celliach]

Pretty much everyone who has answered is on point. It is not free to grow medical grade marijuana. A good, reliable, caregiver will spend quite a bit of money on making sure you have a uninterrupted supply of medicine. Why should they have to pay, and not you? If you were to go into the pharmacy and ask them for free vicodin or oxycontin what do you think they would say?

 

"Excuse me, Mr. pharmacist, I would like to get my prescription for free, you could just charge another person filling their prescription more so it would cover my costs."

 

I dont think that would fly.

Actually all three of my other patients know about my free patient and none of them have a problem with it.

[nvinson105]

I wish my Electric bill wasn't $400.00+ a month

[malachi3_3]

I'm having problems with my patient over the past 5-6 months. He never had a problem helping out with supplies in the past but ever since he has been separated from his wife he has decided to ignore the caregiver/patient roles and giving less supplies if any at all. I let it go for the first month or two but then he decided to not even bother communicate with me until he was needing his meds in the next two-six hours. I tied talking to him then he went off on me like I was the one not fulfilling his needs. I don't mind helping people out but, how much is enough. There is a bit more but I summarized for the general problems.

[Croppled1]

I cg for a good friend with ms. He is my only patient and I also grow for myself. I don't charge him for anything so long as he uses less than an oz. a month. Over an ounce I will ask a small donatation to help with costs. By me being able to grow his and my plants, I can harvest a couple plants a month and we won't run out of meds. When I was buying my meds at a dispensary I was paying around $400 a month. Paying for neuts and electricity doesn't even come close to that. The way I look at it is that I am saving money and passing it on to a friend who needs the meds for his well being. I'm not getting compensated for my time, but it is a decision I made to help a friend.

 

Just be aware their bringing charges for over limits if caregivers do not have seperate rooms for each patients plants in some Counties like Oakland and Livingston . Apparently some have taken plea's or lost in court from what you read on message boards . Truely sad when this law is to protect medical growers that warnings are not given first nor are there educational phamphlets .

Edited July 4, 2012 by Croppled1

[trix]

I'm having problems with my patient over the past 5-6 months. He never had a problem helping out with supplies in the past but ever since he has been separated from his wife he has decided to ignore the caregiver/patient roles and giving less supplies if any at all. I let it go for the first month or two but then he decided to not even bother communicate with me until he was needing his meds in the next two-six hours. I tied talking to him then he went off on me like I was the one not fulfilling his needs. I don't mind helping people out but, how much is enough. There is a bit more but I summarized for the general problems.

 

Welcome to the site Malachi, Glad to hear your input.

 

Some PT's have issues mental or stress related/ PAIN who knows only you and him know the true reasons(sounds like a mental breakdown of sorts w/ the divorce) stress is a huge factor in a pt's daily life same goes for the CG. Its up to you how much you can take, should be a nice healthy sit down with him to communicate and express each others untold/unseen problems with services.

 

After you have a meeting and you can't come to some kind of a solution, then I would say that is enough ehh? If everything is laid out on the table and a solid form of communication has been implemented you and that PT should have a conclusion of how to proceed from there. IMO If a agreement cannot be reached you do have the right to inform the PT that things aren't working out and you can always file a change of CG form and release him, if your both unsatified with your araingements.

 

Good luck, and again welcome to the site hope you can find the advice your seeking, and come to a workable agreement with you PT/CG

 

Trix

[LansingAreaCaregiver]

When I have been approached by patients asking for free meds, I tell them this:

 

There are four general kinds of caregivers:

 

1. CG who works for cheap/free for a family member of friend and who helps out of compassion - not for the money.

2. CG who collects a reasonable compensation from a patient

3. CG is either new or incompetent, and he needs more than 12 plants/patient to keep meds supplied to his existing patients.

4. CG who grows for free for patients and then sells to people not registered to him.

 

If you select #3 or #4, consider three things:

 

1. Your CG is motivated by money - not compassion. You'll be the first one out of meds when he runs into issues

2. If your CG knows soooo many other patients to sell "overages" to, why wouldn't he just sign up one of those guys instead of seeking a new patient.

3. If your CG gets busted for selling outside of his registered patients, what are you going to do when he tells LEO and the PA that "I had a deal going with patient X" in order to try to get softer treatment.

4. Do you care if your CG is selling to unregistered people?

5. Why are you so special, that some stranger would sign you up as a patient for free? yet the other patients he deals with have to pay?

 

Free meds are a fallacy. Someone pays for those meds. Why do people think it is ethical to hit up a stranger for free meds, all the while expecting some other patient to pick up the bill? If patients "deserve" free meds, then there is nobody to pay the grower's cost except for black market buyers. See?

 

 

Can I borrow this for patients who approach me looking for free meds? I started a thread a little bit ago, but never posted it, about how this is the most frustrating part of being a caregiver for me. I would say that 90% of potential patients I talk to expect meds for free. I try to be as polite and professional as possible and explain that I charge a very fair price for a great product and service, that under the current interpretation of the law there are no safe and legal outlets to dispose of 'overages', and that I simply can't put my family at risk to provide Joe Schmo with free meds. Still, many of these folks get downright ticked off that you won't grow for them for free, accusing you of seeing only . I've had more than a few rude, curse filled messages thrown my way. In my experience the folks who seem to think they 'deserve' free meds are actually the least deserving, most demanding, least appreciative patients out there. They are the ones who have no problem getting their 'free' med allotment from you every month and then demanding several ounces more at dirt cheap prices so they can hook up their friends. They don't comprehend why you aren't willing to simply grow as much as possible and sell it to whoever wants it.

 

And here is the thing, I don't necessarily have a problem with growing for a patient for free...if the circumstances warrant it and they appreciate it. I understand that many folks are struggling right now, many patients are on disability and simply can't afford much if anything. There s nothing wrong with that, and nothing wrong with asking for the best possible deal. But the entitlement attitude of those who simply don't WANT to pay really really irks me. Not only is it disrespectful of the caregiver's time, effort and investment, their willingness to flaunt the law is bad for MM in general.

[Ms Chocolate]

The Act states that a patient can grow "up to" 12 plants.

A patient can also transfer their right to have plants to a caregiver.

Does the patient have to right to say to the caregiver that their usage will only require 1-2 plants monthly? Is the caregiver then restricted to maintaining 2 plants in flowering and 2 in veg each month?

If a limit is not stated in the agreement, can 12 plants be grown in the patient’s name when only 2 plants are needed? If so, why should the patient be forced to compensated the caregiver for unneeded material?

[Celliach]

The Act states that a patient can grow "up to" 12 plants.

 

A patient can also transfer their right to have plants to a caregiver.

 

Does the patient have to right to say to the caregiver that their usage will only require 1-2 plants monthly? Is the caregiver then restricted to maintaining 2 plants in flowering and 2 in veg each month?

 

If a limit is not stated in the agreement, can 12 plants be grown in the patient’s name when only 2 plants are needed? If so, why should the patient be forced to compensated the caregiver for unneeded material?

 

The caregiver doesn't have to grow all 12 plants. I currently have three patients and myself, but have way less than 48 plants. I only grow what I need. If the CG is growing ore than he needs than he is either getting rid of the extra in other ways (I don't know anyone foolish enough to do that.), or incurring unnecessary costs to him/herself, which will eventually force him/her to stop growing so much.

[ozzrokk]

Welcome to the site Malachi, Glad to hear your input.

 

Some PT's have issues mental or stress related/ PAIN who knows only you and him know the true reasons(sounds like a mental breakdown of sorts w/ the divorce) stress is a huge factor in a pt's daily life same goes for the CG. Its up to you how much you can take, should be a nice healthy sit down with him to communicate and express each others untold/unseen problems with services.

 

After you have a meeting and you can't come to some kind of a solution, then I would say that is enough ehh? If everything is laid out on the table and a solid form of communication has been implemented you and that PT should have a conclusion of how to proceed from there. IMO If a agreement cannot be reached you do have the right to inform the PT that things aren't working out and you can always file a change of CG form and release him, if your both unsatified with your araingements.

 

Good luck, and again welcome to the site hope you can find the advice your seeking, and come to a workable agreement with you PT/CG

 

Trix

 

Well stated..... A meet is exactly what you two need and you will both know where each other stands.

[pergamum362]

I had a patient for over a year, who got mad when I would not give him "extra" meds for free whenever he asked, he would get madder than hell when in the rare event I had a problem and ran a week or two behind schedule.He could not for the life of him figure out why I even charged him for meds.recently he's finishing up his first grow with lights I supplied, nutrients I supplied, and mentoring I did..HE NOW SAYS HES SORRY, For ever bitching and understands now that its a part time job and can be stressful and COSTLY. I think most of these patients either don't know what goes into a crop to make it medical quality or they just don't care.

[Willy]

they dont care.. long as they can rope you into free meds.. too much, i want for free crap.. and i do have free patients, its the demanding the expectation that they DESERVE free meds... as we all know ,, free means that they will be complaining shortly after,, he don't give me my free meds.. what am i to do...

[Celliach]

I do know some of these complaining patients personally. I will not work with them. My free patient that I've had for years is very grateful.