Want To Get Directly Involved With Helping Patients?

[cristinew]

Ask A Scientist

 

http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/chem07/chem07023.htm

[+Malamute]

Hi GG,

 

Not even sure who the devil is you speak of.

 

In November 2008, we looked into possibly doing testing seeing it as being something that would be needed. After some basic research done with actual employed microbiological scientists, we cam to the conclusion it was not a feasible route to take and just went on. At that time, testing was just starting to exist,basicly, for the whole country. As it progressed we realized commercial groups were using testing to degrade caregivers as unsafe and incapable of safely working with patients. This line of talk has increased ten fold and we are shooting ourselves int he foot to pursue this angle. It reinforces the opinion that marijuana is "unsafe" in any circumstance unless a commercial group tests it and sells it. Just like the pharma industry, it would take all processes out of the common man/womans hands and put it into a corporate atmosphere thus leaving home growing as being not feasible and "crude" and unsafe. It is unfortunate, but it is what it is.

 

We have never considered the impurity route of any importance. We were concerned about cannabinoid amounts, terpenes and flavonoids. That type of testing cannot be done accurately with the equipment most, if not all, the people in the state are using. Their equipment is substandard. We inform people of the inaccuracy and let them know it is simply a "fun" thing to do, but to realize it has about a plus/minus 20% accuracy. In otherwords, not accurate. Kinda like getting your weight guessed at a carnival. If you weigh 200 lbs, that would give the person a range of 160- 240 lbs with the 20% margin. Not very accurate.

 

As far as residues left over from extractions, ask a real scientist:

 

Determination of Organic Volatile Impurities in

 

Herbal Formulations and Extracts by Capillary Gas

Chromatography

 

 

I have more documents stating this. I find it weird i even have to prove this residue issue. It is common knowledge in the science field. It is just simply what it is. There is nothing to argue about.

 

Laslty, i am merely a patient, never a caregiver and have zero interest in making money off of patients. I donate at least 20-30 hours every week working with patients for free and furthering the cause and protections surrounding medical cannabis.

 

So, for a guy who seems to always say it how it is and does not lie, i am always shocked when people try to discredit me. O well.

 

I am more than happy to be proven wrong. Not saying i am not wrong, but i am being truthful to my current knowledge.

[GrowGoddess]

Since this topic was about helping patients or at least that is the way it seemed by the title:

 

Anyone out there with prostate cancer, under 60? The younger the better. Want the best oil in this state to treat your illness? Are you of limited income and find it difficult to afford mj? Is it possible that you would be able to grow for yourself in the future? Are you willing to journal the results on this site or another site? Are you a registered MMMP patient with a card?

 

Will 3MA help me in communicating with this unknown patient? My oil is the best. Ask Joe Crowe (StoneCrowe316). You know why mine is the best?

Because my oil is Holy Hemp Oil, produced on sacred land, blessed by God. Free, Free, Free, No Charge, No Charge. I wish to be like my Lord and savior Jesus Christ. I wish to serve my God in Heaven.

 

If you meet the above requirements, please PM me.

 

I am asking 3MA for help in interviewing potential patients. I am a small woman and it makes me very nervous meeting people through the internet in person alone.

 

 

People helping people.....

[Kingdiamond]

Since this topic was about helping patients or at least that is the way it seemed by the title:

 

Anyone out there with prostate cancer, under 60? The younger the better. Want the best oil in this state to treat your illness? Are you of limited income and find it difficult to afford mj? Is it possible that you would be able to grow for yourself in the future? Are you willing to journal the results on this site or another site? Are you a registered MMMP patient with a card?

 

Will 3MA help me in communicating with this unknown patient? My oil is the best. Ask Joe Crowe (StoneCrowe316). You know why mine is the best?

Because my oil is Holy Hemp Oil, produced on sacred land, blessed by God. Free, Free, Free, No Charge, No Charge. I wish to be like my Lord and savior Jesus Christ. I wish to serve my God in Heaven.

 

If you meet the above requirements, please PM me.

 

I am asking 3MA for help in interviewing potential patients. I am a small woman and it makes me very nervous meeting people through the internet in person alone.

 

 

People helping people.....

 

Anything i can do to help GG let me know .

[Northern Lab]

Hi GG,

 

Not even sure who the devil is you speak of.

 

In November 2008, we looked into possibly doing testing seeing it as being something that would be needed. After some basic research done with actual employed microbiological scientists, we cam to the conclusion it was not a feasible route to take and just went on. At that time, testing was just starting to exist,basicly, for the whole country. As it progressed we realized commercial groups were using testing to degrade caregivers as unsafe and incapable of safely working with patients. This line of talk has increased ten fold and we are shooting ourselves int he foot to pursue this angle. It reinforces the opinion that marijuana is "unsafe" in any circumstance unless a commercial group tests it and sells it. Just like the pharma industry, it would take all processes out of the common man/womans hands and put it into a corporate atmosphere thus leaving home growing as being not feasible and "crude" and unsafe. It is unfortunate, but it is what it is.

 

We have never considered the impurity route of any importance. We were concerned about cannabinoid amounts, terpenes and flavonoids. That type of testing cannot be done accurately with the equipment most, if not all, the people in the state are using. Their equipment is substandard. We inform people of the inaccuracy and let them know it is simply a "fun" thing to do, but to realize it has about a plus/minus 20% accuracy. In otherwords, not accurate. Kinda like getting your weight guessed at a carnival. If you weigh 200 lbs, that would give the person a range of 160- 240 lbs with the 20% margin. Not very accurate.

 

As far as residues left over from extractions, ask a real scientist:

 

Determination of Organic Volatile Impurities in

 

Herbal Formulations and Extracts by Capillary Gas

 

Chromatography

 

 

I have more documents stating this. I find it weird i even have to prove this residue issue. It is common knowledge in the science field. It is just simply what it is. There is nothing to argue about.

 

Laslty, i am merely a patient, never a caregiver and have zero interest in making money off of patients. I donate at least 20-30 hours every week working with patients for free and furthering the cause and protections surrounding medical cannabis.

 

So, for a guy who seems to always say it how it is and does not lie, i am always shocked when people try to discredit me. O well.

 

I am more than happy to be proven wrong. Not saying i am not wrong, but i am being truthful to my current knowledge.

 

That's just not accurate, not even 20% off-lol.

 

My 'substandard' equipment rarely, if ever, gets more than 1-2% out of calibration. If your chromatographer knows what he/she is doing, that should be all the variability you will experience. The ring test conducted a while back on labs out west did show 20% variability, IIRC, but no one ever really said what the issues were. It could have been something as simple as a faulty lab scale, contaminated reference standards, or poor extraction/sample prep techniques. All those problems are easily corrected.

 

Michigan labs definitely need a ring test conducted. I've been suggesting this for a number of months now. I do still maintain that the best use of chromatography equipment is to spot CBD rich strains. Cannabinoid percentages of a sample bud do not always reflect the entire crop, so that part of it remains more of a novelty IMO, but the equipment doing the testing is accurate when in capable hands. I don't want any part of the rest of this thread, but I saw that whopper and figured I'd set the record straight.

 

Have a nice evening everyone.

[cristinew]

So Northern labs can you test what is left in the OIL from the ISO extraction, the residues?? the link mal posted i could not find what is left behind or what is suppose to be in this residue , because i would like to know for sure,, I have also heard that a teaspoon of ice cream has more toxins than a pound of RSO but anyway I can remove toxins from my oil,,

 

The residual solvents have no therapeutic benefits and

are toxic and hazardous to human health. ICH has prescribed the limits for the solvents in herbal extracts and

formulations (International Conference on Harmonization, 1997). The content of residual solvents in herbal extracts

is routinely measured by gas chromatography.

 

so what is left behind ,, patients would like to know,

 

I thought gas chromatography. was not accurate 20% off

 

 

7 of the most common harmful synthetic chemicals found in conventional ice cream.

1. Acetiel C17: An aniline dye that is used in the manufacture of plastic, rubber and pharmaceuticals. Aniline is a colorless, oily and poisonous benzene derivative. It is popular as an additive for ice cream because it has a tasty cherry flavor.
   
2. Amyl Acetate: A powerful paint solvent that is commonly used as artificial banana flavoring.
   
3. Benzyl Acetate: A nitrate solvent that is widely used as artificial strawberry flavoring.
   
4. Butyrlaldehyde: An ingredient that is popular in cement. It is used as an artificial nut flavoring in conventional ice cream.
   
5. Diethylglycol: A chemical that has emulsifier properties. It is popular for replacing eggs. It is also found in antifreeze. Maybe this is why it has the word “die” as a part of its name!
   
6. Ethyl Acetate: A chemical that is popular for cleaning leather. Its vapors are known to be harmful to the lung, liver and heart. It is common in conventional ice cream because it gives it a pineapple-like flavor.
   
7. Pepernial: A chemical that is popular for killing lice. Pepernial is used in ice cream to mimic the vanilla flavor because it has a vanilla-like taste.
   

Edited September 21, 2012 by cristinew

[Kingdiamond]

So Northern labs can you test what is left in the OIL from the ISO extraction, the residues?? the link mal posted i could not find what is left behind or what is suppose to be in this residue , because i would like to know for sure,, I have also heard that a teaspoon of ice cream has more toxins than a pound of RSO but anyway I can remove toxins from my oil,,

 

The residual solvents have no therapeutic benefits and

are toxic and hazardous to human health. ICH has prescribed the limits for the solvents in herbal extracts and

formulations (International Conference on Harmonization, 1997). The content of residual solvents in herbal extracts

is routinely measured by gas chromatography.

 

so what is left behind ,, patients would like to know,

 

I thought gas chromatography. was not accurate 20% off

 

 

7 of the most common harmful synthetic chemicals found in conventional ice cream.

1. Acetiel C17: An aniline dye that is used in the manufacture of plastic, rubber and pharmaceuticals. Aniline is a colorless, oily and poisonous benzene derivative. It is popular as an additive for ice cream because it has a tasty cherry flavor.
   
2. Amyl Acetate: A powerful paint solvent that is commonly used as artificial banana flavoring.
   
3. Benzyl Acetate: A nitrate solvent that is widely used as artificial strawberry flavoring.
   
4. Butyrlaldehyde: An ingredient that is popular in cement. It is used as an artificial nut flavoring in conventional ice cream.
   
5. Diethylglycol: A chemical that has emulsifier properties. It is popular for replacing eggs. It is also found in antifreeze. Maybe this is why it has the word “die” as a part of its name!
   
6. Ethyl Acetate: A chemical that is popular for cleaning leather. Its vapors are known to be harmful to the lung, liver and heart. It is common in conventional ice cream because it gives it a pineapple-like flavor.
   
7. Pepernial: A chemical that is popular for killing lice. Pepernial is used in ice cream to mimic the vanilla flavor because it has a vanilla-like taste.
   

Now did you really have to go and ruin ice cream for me ?

[The Digital Nomad]

not sure those ingredients mean it is toxic.

[SFC]

GG, I love ya, but you are way off with the "grand Scheme" business. NOBODY in CPU has done anything to capitalize on any kind of monetary gain associated with the group. We have put up our own money to fight for all of our rights.

[Restorium2]

Testing:

All cannabis will need to be tested by the patient because of it's 'wholeness'. It's not a simple chemical compound with known quantities like a prescription drug. Cannabis, in it's natural form, is as complicated as our DNA. There is no testing that will show exactly what each specific strain's effects are. All experienced growers have seen the subtle differences between plants that have the exact same genetics.

The makers of natural cannabis products have delved deeply into the study of their products and how the plant gave them what they ended up with. When you look at their studies you see that the more they try to define the natural substances they extract from the cannabis plant, the more complicated and unquantifiable the active ingredients are, just like DNA.

The bottom line is:

Testing is, and has been, a gimmick to make a money making niche that lives off of patients. Every money making cannabis entity, including the pharmaceutical companies, have tried their hand at capturing cash with their ideas of why cannabis needs to be tested by a lab to make it the best ever(moneymaker). When, in fact, their testing can't tell you much about your cannabis, just like if you took a test sample of your DNA to a lab. Every plant, every bud, is unique. That is exactly what makes cannabis a better drug for us. It's a better match. It's like us, unique.

Understanding a specific sample of cannabis starts with a practiced grower and ends with a needy patient. The two of them, sometimes as one, are the lab. A much better, and proficient, avenue to cure what ails you.

[cristinew]

I just want to know what is in the Residue from ISO extractions?? they say there is and at the same time they say the test are wrong, ,, what is in it,,,,,,,, was it purged right,

 

just to be safe do not use a butane lighter or matches surfer can be dangerous dont forget about that glue on your papers,

[Northern Lab]

So Northern labs can you test what is left in the OIL from the ISO extraction, the residues?? the link mal posted i could not find what is left behind or what is suppose to be in this residue , because i would like to know for sure,, I have also heard that a teaspoon of ice cream has more toxins than a pound of RSO but anyway I can remove toxins from my oil,,

 

The residual solvents have no therapeutic benefits and

are toxic and hazardous to human health. ICH has prescribed the limits for the solvents in herbal extracts and

formulations (International Conference on Harmonization, 1997). The content of residual solvents in herbal extracts

is routinely measured by gas chromatography.

 

so what is left behind ,, patients would like to know,

 

I thought gas chromatography. was not accurate 20% off

 

 

7 of the most common harmful synthetic chemicals found in conventional ice cream.

1. Acetiel C17: An aniline dye that is used in the manufacture of plastic, rubber and pharmaceuticals. Aniline is a colorless, oily and poisonous benzene derivative. It is popular as an additive for ice cream because it has a tasty cherry flavor.
   
2. Amyl Acetate: A powerful paint solvent that is commonly used as artificial banana flavoring.
   
3. Benzyl Acetate: A nitrate solvent that is widely used as artificial strawberry flavoring.
   
4. Butyrlaldehyde: An ingredient that is popular in cement. It is used as an artificial nut flavoring in conventional ice cream.
   
5. Diethylglycol: A chemical that has emulsifier properties. It is popular for replacing eggs. It is also found in antifreeze. Maybe this is why it has the word “die” as a part of its name!
   
6. Ethyl Acetate: A chemical that is popular for cleaning leather. Its vapors are known to be harmful to the lung, liver and heart. It is common in conventional ice cream because it gives it a pineapple-like flavor.
   
7. Pepernial: A chemical that is popular for killing lice. Pepernial is used in ice cream to mimic the vanilla flavor because it has a vanilla-like taste.
   

 

 

It is possible to check for residual solvents, but we don't at this point.

 

Using clean solvents that are easy to remove to begin with is key. Thin film vac purging under heat will likely do at least an adequate job of reducing levels of residual solvent to less than harmful levels. Some solvents, like hexane, we can detect with our olfactory system well below the levels at which the solvent would become a health issue.

[cristinew]

So there is residue left but nobody knows what it is,, or nobody test for it,

[Restorium2]

So there is residue left but nobody knows what it is,, or nobody test for it,

Because if you use a nearly pure solvent with a known qualities, like a boiling point, it can effectively be removed, down to a level that testing is a waste of time, again.

[Northern Lab]

So there is residue left but nobody knows what it is,, or nobody test for it,

 

There can be residual solvent left, but just because you used a solvent doesn't mean there is significantly harmful levels of it present.

 

I had some of my extract tested when a patient took an unconscious trip to the hospital. they thought the extract she was found with had something to do with it, so they tested it at the hospital lab. Once she regained consciousness and determined she was alright, her doc returned the extract to her. My thinking is they wouldn't have done that if there was any residual solvent in it.

 

I'm still trying to see if I can get a copy of the lab report.

[+Malamute]

I honestly don;t know the specific answer offhand cristinew. My guess, i would say hexane, ether or acetone? depends on the process and reactions.

[The Digital Nomad]

its not just the chemical , but the grade or quality, I have used lab grade ether and acetone - the more purer the solvent, the less residue of unknown was left.

the acetone you get at the store has been cut - for profit, they know you only need 50% acetone to remove nail polish, so they fill up the other 50% with crap fillers, the unknown residues.

[t-pain]

is there something wrong with using edible solvents?

like the 95% alcohol 'everclear' ?

[Northern Lab]

is there something wrong with using edible solvents?

like the 95% alcohol 'everclear' ?

 

Not really, except that it's tough to get unless you live near a bordering state that sells it.

 

Lots of folks use 190 proof to winterize(de-wax) their butane extracts intended for smoking.

[The Digital Nomad]

nothing wrong with everclear 95% alcohol - it is the other grades.

- here - I would suggest NOT using lab grade alcohol as it has been refined to Absolute alcohol - it can have dangerous impurities.

Denatured alcohol, has impurities added to prevent human consumption.

So all that is 'healthy' to use of alcohol is the alcohol produced by fermentation and approved for human consumption, the proof is percentages of water and alcohol content.

 

The 95% alcohol is fine, because the other 5% is water. When the alcohol is cut with something else or refined to reduce the amount of water by other chemicals - that is bad. (see absolute alcohol below)

 

"

 

Denatured alcohol

Main article: Denatured alcohol

Pure ethanol and alcoholic beverages are heavily taxed as a psychoactive drug, but ethanol has many uses that do not involve consumption by humans. To relieve the tax burden on these uses, most jurisdictions waive the tax when an agent has been added to the ethanol to render it unfit to drink. These include bittering agents such as denatonium benzoate and toxins such as methanol, naphtha, and pyridine. Products of this kind are calleddenatured alcohol.^[56][57]

[edit]Absolute alcohol

Absolute or anhydrous alcohol refers to ethanol with a low water content. There are various grades with maximum water contents ranging from 1% to ppm levels. Absolute alcohol is not intended for human consumption. If azeotropic distillation is used to remove water, it will contain trace amounts of the material separation agent (e.g. benzene).^[58] Absolute ethanol is used as a solvent for laboratory and industrial applications, where water will react with other chemicals, and as fuel alcohol. Spectroscopic ethanol is an absolute ethanol with a low absorbance in ultraviolet and visible light, fit for use as a solvent in ultraviolet-visible spectroscopy.^[59]

Pure ethanol is classed as 200 proof in the USA, equivalent to 175 degrees proof in the UK system.^[60]

[edit]Rectified spirits

Rectified spirit, an azeotropic composition containing 4% water, is used instead of anhydrous ethanol for various purposes. Wine spirits are about 188 proof. The impurities are different from those in 190 proof laboratory ethanol.^[61]

--

[The Digital Nomad]

oh check the canadian duty free shops, you don't have to cross the border to check them out.

[GrowGoddess]

GG, I love ya, but you are way off with the "grand Scheme" business. NOBODY in CPU has done anything to capitalize on any kind of monetary gain associated with the group. We have put up our own money to fight for all of our rights.

 

I really like your avatar, always have too! Star Wars junkie through and through.

 

Apparently, as most women are, I have been misunderstood.

 

It saddens me that most of what came of my OP on this topic was taking low blows about RSO and what it should really be called. My true intention was to put up an idea to come together somehow and help patients, which is what the topic states.

 

Isn't there anyone out there that is willing to try to offer even a little support? I do congratulate the one person that did PM me to offer support, I thank you very much.

 

Debating about true names, solvents, and other petty issues is not productive. I have always believed two things.

1. The proof is in the pudding

2. Experience is more valuable than knowledge.

 

 

"Do or do not, there is no try" ~ Yoda

[GrowGoddess]

Anything i can do to help GG let me know .

 

Thank you King! Sorry, I didn't see that you posted this, there was a lot to go through.

I will be sending you a PM real soon.

[SFC]

Yea, I have no opinion on RSO I have never tried it nor made it GG, sorry. I should have made that clear. I do have a lot of experience making BHO tho, so all I was doing is defending that particular process. Resto is obviously an ISO guy and Mal has done several other extractions. So in all of this discussion there is actually some pretty good info.

[cristinew]

And I can make a good oil,,,, what % thc do you want 60 to 90 i can make it , seems that the 90 stuff you have to be careful on the dose esp to patients that are not used to it as you can see 80% could of been filtered to 90 in about 30 minutes work,, also the trims and shake always seem to produce more cbd and the patients love it,,,

Edited September 22, 2012 by cristinew