Rental Inspections

[GrowGoddess]

What I'm saying is you would have to pull the meter (and leave it pulled during the outage) every time  you need energize the panel via the generator ....HJ

 

I see what you are saying. What if I am only powering the lighting or sub panel and the main to that panel is turned off?

 

As long as the 4 main breakers are off I don't see why I can't operate the sub panel or lighting panel with a generator since that bus would not be energized by the power company. Or am I mistaken?

 

I have done it before on this exact panel during an outage. I do not know if the power came back on though while the generator was running. It ran out of gas during the night and the power was back on in the morning.

[Hydraulic Jack]

You would have to have all of the mains shut off and back feed the lighting section of the panel via one (or more)of the 110v breakers....If the lighting main was on it would tie you to edison and your generator would TRY to energize it..HJ

[trichcycler]

I paid 200 bucks to have a plug put on the outside of my house and my grow room below the meters, with a separate breaker for stopping the power from going back into the grid, It was inspected and works like a charm. No fuss . I lose power several times a year and just plug a gen in and flick the breaker panel arm. I was freaked at prices of gens too, till I realized that my "whole house" would never be "on" anyways. My house is all electric, I use a 8k gen bought at lowes for 1600$, Honda motor, troy bilt gen. can run ac, heat, well, electric water heater, coffee pot,tv, stereo, amplifiers, vacuum cleaner, drying room, dehumidifier, electric stove, oven, etc. with no issues at all. The grow room has the same and doesn't even hiccup during an outage.

Edited October 12, 2014 by grassmatch

[Habenero]

I paid 200 bucks to have a plug put on the outside of my house and my grow room below the meters, with a separate breaker for stopping the power from going back into the grid, It was inspected and works like a charm. No fuss . I lose power several times a year and just plug a gen in and flick the breaker panel arm. I was freaked at prices of gens too, till I realized that my "whole house" would never be "on" anyways. My house is all electric, I use a 8k gen bought at lowes for 1600$, Honda motor, troy bilt gen. can run ac, heat, well, electric water heater, coffee pot,tv, stereo, amplifiers, vacuum cleaner, drying room, dehumidifier, electric stove, oven, etc. with no issues at all. The grow room has the same and doesn't even hiccup during an outage.

Woah. Your water heater probably uses about 2k watts at least and maybe as much as 4k. Oven is probably a good 3 to 6k, maybe more. Your fridge is maybe 500ish maybe a little less if it's a newer one and probably more if it's old. Central air maybe 5k depending on size. Well pump probably less than 1000. Biggest problem comes with start up. Your well pump for example probably draws 200-300 more watts at start up than when running. If you're running all of that stuff you must have to be wary of what's running and when huh? Good on you though if you're getting all of the comforts of the grid at times of outages. I also run a generator during outages but like growgoddess I just run essentials. Could probably get by with zero power for a couple days if it weren't for my chest freezer and fridge. Don't want to lose a few hundred dollars in food if I lose power.

[trichcycler]

You are spot on !  good thing I don't run all of these appliances at the same time.  In the winter I have the option of heating with wood, so the baseboard heaters can get a break. The house gen runs typically at 40% capacity, until the hot water tank is used, or the oven is turned on etc(unlikely during an outage, but possible)

 

the gen has a 10k start up, and a built in/ portable panel showing all of the draw, %, etc, and will shut off if overloaded, after a warning.

[Highlander]

Sounds like a threaded dedicated to electrical advice would be a nice addition to MMMA, assuming there are not some big liability issues with having one.

[trichcycler]

Best Advice= Find a qualified person to do the repairs.

 

The classified section here lists at least one mj friendly electrician.

[Highlander]

Best Advice= Find a qualified person to do the repairs.

 

The classified section here lists at least one mj friendly electrician.

 

Yes but the trouble enters when a licensed electrician becomes involved and then has some heightened obligation to code/safety.  I have a concept I describe as "personal code" as in I understand (generally) what is needed to be safe, and I can adjust based on my own personal circumstance.  As an example, in a previous home/grow, I had a laundry center where I used the existing 60amp feed to the laundry center to drop to a subpanel that ran the flower room...so when it came time to do laundry, I could throw the "off" switch to the flower room and only use the power when the flower lights were off and get the laundry done.  The total load on the circuit to run the flower room and the laundry together was more than the capacity of the circuit.  But personal management made this a non-issue for me.  I just did laundry during the dark 12 hours.  I hesitate to invite a licensed electrician or plumber into my world because I can't help but think that he might point out other possible issues (non-issues to me) that would require correction to be up to code. 

 

We have to consider that there is no code that is specific to growing MJ in one's basement or barn.  So to be a "grower" you probably need to have some understanding of electrical safety. 

[GrowGoddess]

Sounds like a threaded dedicated to electrical advice would be a nice addition to MMMA, assuming there are not some big liability issues with having one.

 

Yes it would be, I think.....

 

Here is what I am working with.

 

 

I am hoping to hook up a 6000W generator to the lighting bus for power outages. Potentially I can back feed through a 220 if I add a couple more piggy back breakers to make room. Or, I can front feed it if I customize the main to where the main goes to a switch box first so a generator and main cannot be on at the same time. Not sure which route I am going to try. I have back fed it in the past like HJ mentioned with a 220.

 

Here is the 220 I hooked up jointedone, all the way from the breaker to the lights. I had to piggy-back some breakers to make room.

 

 

Here is the rig I planned on using for my grow room.

 

Same style my old cabin used to have, which I changed to a modern household breaker box. I was thinking this would be a good sub panel for a grow room. Slow blow fuses so you won't trip a breaker upon start up. I would be using it but I decided not to since it has been 5 years now and our politicians do not see marijuana as legal yet. They are still locking us up, still saying it is bad, still denying it is medicinal, still going against the people (which is illegal in the US). Still not voting on bills in place with threats from the governor that he will veto them if passed. So I decided to abandon the idea of a bigger grow room so I can help more patients. I finally accepted it, now that I have accepted it, I can finish what I started. I will be posting to my 2000W flower closet blog finishing my grow room soon.

 

Edited October 14, 2014 by GrowGoddess

[jointedone]

Okay that second picture is what we had in our other house.The first picture is what we have...the main box and ANOTHER one in the part of the house that was added onto! How the hells did this house ever pass inspection? Built in 1948. Everytime we look behind a wall we get surprised.

[LilAj]

I rented at United Properties, I asked at inspection if I could grow and the inspector said yes then took a picture of my card. a couple of months later the owner decided on selling the house so the guy from UP asked if I would clean up the area so the owner could show the house. I put my four mother plants out in my veg garden while he showed the house. Nobody showed to look at the house but 7 white police showed and hauled me to jail with 4 Felonies. I'm 60 years old and got to watch 7 white cops hold their guns on my 60 year old wife and 3 kids. I have never been in trouble or jail in my life until this and please don't trust any landlord. Don't trust any cop, they lie.

 

 No matter what advise folks give trust your gut only and stop growing there. these police and prosecutor's are all out to ruin your life. Stay away from them.

 

I gave the head cop my caregiver card and found out you don't need to read to become a cop now days.       

[Willy]

I rented at United Properties, I asked at inspection if I could grow and the inspector said yes then took a picture of my card. a couple of months later the owner decided on selling the house so the guy from UP asked if I would clean up the area so the owner could show the house. I put my four mother plants out in my veg garden while he showed the house. Nobody showed to look at the house but 7 white police showed and hauled me to jail with 4 Felonies. I'm 60 years old and got to watch 7 white cops hold their guns on my 60 year old wife and 3 kids. I have never been in trouble or jail in my life until this and please don't trust any landlord. Don't trust any cop, they lie.

 

 No matter what advise folks give trust your gut only and stop growing there. these police and prosecutor's are all out to ruin your life. Stay away from them.

 

I gave the head cop my caregiver card and found out you don't need to read to become a cop now days.       

Never truer words were said,, dont trust them, any of them.. they will screw you at the first chance....

[trichcycler]

especially the white ones ?

[Willy]

especially the white ones ?

I thought they was all yellow? as in chicken shiits.. 

[Habenero]

I'm 60 years old and got to watch 7 white cops hold their guns on my 60 year old wife and 3 kids.

What does white have to do with it?

[journeymike]

If you put power into any 240 volt breaker on your service panel it will power your entire service panel if that breaker is on. If you dont shut off your main breaker you will back feed power right out of your house down the power lines and possibly kill the lineman trying to get power back on. If your main breaker is off he is safe. Pulling your meter off your house is safest for your lineman and you. Also if you back feed power by leaving your main service breaker on, you will blow up your generator when power is restored(unless your generator is phased and running in parallel with the power company,but the chances youll be in phase with the power company are less than hitting the powerball). Pull your meter and keep everybody safe. Always turn off your main service breaker when using a portable generator, even if you pull your service meter. Be careful and always SHUT OFF YOUR MAIN SERVICE BREAKER WHEN USING A PORTABLE GENERATOR TO POWER YOUR ELECTRICAL SERVICE.

[GrowGoddess]

I wonder how powerful that generator would be to even come close to injuring a linesman. It would have to be pushing 20MW at least?! A couple thousand horse power? If you turn your main on during a power outage with a generator hooked into the panel, the generator will cut out, because it cannot handle the demand..... At least a typical generator to run part of a house. I know this from experience.

 

I work with licensed electricians of all levels. They are trained to check all lines for any form of energy pulsing through them before starting work. Also, they wear protective gear specific to the job, i.e. high voltage gear. They go through extensive safety training and I have not heard of an accident like that. 

 

The only time I have heard of disconnecting the meter to hook up a generator as being a more safe method is during emergency situations. For instance, a few years back the company I work for was called out to Kansas City during an ice storm. The local utility company and FEMA sent crews to select homes to install generators to provide temporary power to the homeowners that needed it the most, like the elderly, and people who needed to operate different forms of life support systems. These generators were installed directly to the meter socket. Regardless of the fact that the power was out in that area at that time, there is always a potential for a spike or surge during reconnection of the down lines.

 

A power meter to be removed and replaced by a untrained homeowner, I must 100% disagree.

 

Tennis shoes are just fine when the power is out, if you are lucky and there is no surge during removal. Now, when replacing the meter when the power comes back on, that is a different story. What about snow and ice? That is 5 months out of each year here in Michigan. Not to mention, many times power outages are during storms. To recommend a homeowner to remove and replace a power meter during stormy weather without proper protective gear is just dangerous. I sure as heck would not be handling a meter on an energized line during bad weather or standing on wet ground or snow without certified protective gear. I would say wet ground occurs about 8 months out of a year in MI.

 

I am sorry that I disagree with you all. I agree with Honda, the utility companies, and the electricians I work with, especially the master electricians. Here is a link to the safest way to utilize a back up generator during a power outage.

http://powerequipment.honda.com/generators/connecting-a-generator-to-your-home

Please read it over for your own safety.

 

Now let's get to another issue of disagreement. I think it is just as dangerous playing with electricity as it is playing with the law. Removing your meter could raise red flags between the utility companies and law enforcement. They are obviously in bed together. Smart meters, seals, tags, etc. Anyone from the power company notices that there has been tampering with the meter could invite all kinds of problems (red flags). Anywhere from being accused of the crime, steep fines, even an investigation that could lead to a SWAT team invading your house. My concerns are more directed towards the growers and homeowners. I am sorry, but the advice given to tamper with a power meter, is just wrong and could lead to all kinds of problems. The energy companies are like gods in the courtroom. If they choose to sue you, you better hope you have evidence that they are wrong. Without that evidence, you may as well consider yourself guilty. All I can say to that is good luck (better be a billionaire to fight a utility company and win).

 

Personally i think that advice for a homeowner to mess with a power meter is the most dangerous when it comes to a grower on these forums. Stealth is survival in this game.

 

As for Resto, $80, that is the only thing stopping you from installing a legitimate switch for a generator? That is one of the most foolish things I have heard. That $80 investment could increase your home value of at least $1,000 with no additional taxes, not to mention the convenience and safety.

 

As for Highlander, I thought you liked stealth and did not want inspections. The best way to invite an inspection is mess with your power meter and mess around on the outside of your house. You will possibly get the inspection of your life by a SWAT team.

 

Here is that link again, I highly recommend for everyone to read it.http://powerequipment.honda.com/generators/connecting-a-generator-to-your-home

 

It is the right way to do it. Being familiar with electricity, I am going with an even safer way, and get it to where the meter is no longer connected to my house. Being out in the boonies has its advantages.

[journeymike]

Well i respectfully disagree with you. Your assuming too much in your criticism. First off im not saying your gonna kill some lineman working a mile away. If he is close enough to the power source the more he will feel the effects of it. What if he's fixing a loose connection on service wire to the meter? What if they turn on the generator after he tests for power? What if the lineman has service wires diconnected at his end and thats when the generator is turned on? There is a thousand scenarios i could have covered but dont have time to post a novel.It depends on where the lineman is and of course there is voltage drop across long runs of wire. Im only trying to let people understand that it is possible to hurt someone and that they may not understand that backfeed is possible. Your ignorant to think that you need some super generator to harm someone working on power lines. Of course they were ppe to be safe but it's very possible to shock somebody working on something when you dont know where they are. Im glad you think your an expert on the subject cause you know some electricians. I am an electrician with over 30000 hours, I know what im talking about. You should never take your meter off but people do anyways. You should always have a qualified person remove your meter if thats what you wanted to do. I thought i made that clear, but of course you seem to assume im telling joe blow to go out and remove their meter. Quit assuming so much. It makes you look like a fool in this instance. Thank you and have a nice day.

[Habenero]

Saying that a lineman can't get injured because he is trained and wears protective gear is kinda like saying a fireman can't get injured because of his training and protective gear. Maybe a better analogy is that a policeman can't injure himself with his own gun because of his training

 

.http://www.news9.com/story/26662959/police-investigate-accidental-shooting-at-se-okc-home

Edited October 18, 2014 by Habenero

[Habenero]

Better yet go to youtube and type in the search "cop shoots self in leg." That's a good one. Cop in an elementary classroom teaching kids about gun safety and accidently shot himself in the leg. Then tried to act all cool about it. Right after he gets the sentence out of his mouth "I'm the only one in the room professional enough to carry a glock 40" he shoots himself in the leg. If u wanna laugh it's a good one. I'd post it here but can't figure out how to post a youtube video. I don't think this posting toolbar works with my browser.

Edited October 18, 2014 by Habenero

[journeymike]

I have one more issue to cover for gro goddess. The comment about ice storms and hooking up emergency power. There are various types of disconnects before power lines running from pole to home. The linemen in boom trucks would have actuated disconnects before installing any emergency generator on someones home/business, to prevent any injury or damage when power to main lines is restored. After power is restored, after the emergency generators are disconnected and meter/wires are reinstalled and tested for shorts and grounds will they close the disconect and restore power to the load center.

[trichcycler]

my electrician orientated my outdoor box so that before the switch to use the generator power is thrown, a different one must be thrown out of the way, turning off the main. I have a separate meter for my hot water, so I needed yet another box to turn it on or off with or without the generator. totally simple safe for me.

[GrowGoddess]

The point I am trying to get across is to discourage growers and homeowners from pulling their own meter for the reasons I pointed out.

 

I apologize for my assumptions, but there sure have been quite a bit on the flip side too.

 

Assume = a ss out of you and me

 

So we have made a sses of each other. How productive!

 

Yes, no mater how well someone is trained, accidents can happen.

[journeymike]

Fair enough. I could and maybe should have worded my original post differently to say, when you HAVE your meter removed instead of when you remove your meter. I take meters off all the time so it's my mindset set to say you in a general term more than a specific/literal you. Thanks for understanding.

[mz.beyourself]

I would like to hear the answer to your question about the inspection? did they come back ? did you have to open the room or what?