Libertarians Rule, Ds And Rs Drool...

[+Malamute]

And EVERYONE is a responsible gun owner,.... until they suddenly aren't.

 

:-)

[+Malamute]

Back on Another topic, this one will devolve quickly I assume. ;-)

 

Talking about republicans and marijuana, I just got this action alert for Nebraska residents:

 

Dear Gerome:

Late last week, legislation was introduced in Nebraska that would make felons out of a whole lot of non-violent individuals. The bill, LB 326, would amend the state’s marijuana laws by making possession of marijuana concentrates or products made with concentrates a Class IV felony punishable by up to five years in prison, a $10,000 fine, or both!

Please email your state senator TODAY and ask him or her to oppose this draconian measure.

If Nebraska lawmakers want to improve the health and safety of their constituents, they should end marijuana prohibition and replace it with laws similar to those in neighboring Colorado. The state would know who sells marijuana and where, when, and to whom its sold, and adults would be able to purchase tested, labeled products from regulated business instead of unknown products from the streets.

Let your lawmaker know it’s time Nebraska move forward, not backward, on marijuana policy. The already strained criminal justice system should be spending less of its resources — not more — on adults who consume a product that is safer than alcohol.  After you write your state senator, please ask your family and friends in Nebraska to do so, too.

[+Malamute]

Have people forgotten?

[+Malamute]

Texas dad shoots 10-year-old daughter while showing off gun to friends

 

 

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/01/texas-dad-shoots-10-year-old-daughter-while-showing-off-gun-to-friends/

 

 From the weekend.

 

:-)

 

Woohooo! Second amendment!!!

[Norby]

 No need to argue on the number of dispensaries. Facts be facts. Seems people are having short term memory issues on how commercial has progressed in the last 15+ years.

 

I have a legitimate point of view that AK's may not be legitimate such as sawed off shotguns.

Legitimate? Why do you decide?  You know how many people die from AK's?  Handguns are the "problem" not long guns.  And someone ran over their kid in the driveway last week.  What's your point?

 

I'm sorry that you are afraid of guns.  An AK has a use it just hasn't happened yet.  So do sawed off shotguns. I see no reason to outlaw any guns.  Statistically you should play the lottery if you are worried about getting shot.  Or just stay out of the zones where all teh shootings happen.  Or get rid of the drug war and guns wouldn't be a problem.

Edited January 20, 2015 by Norby

[+Malamute]

Legitimate? Why do you decide? 

 

Well, I am allowed to have what I consider a legitimate point of view which coincides with the current and past interpretations of the second amendment.

 

 

 

I'm sorry that you are afraid of guns. 

 

 I am not afraid of guns.  I am merely aware of the cost of having guns.

 

 

 

 An AK has a use it just hasn't happened yet.  So do sawed off shotguns. I see no reason to outlaw any guns. 

 

 Well, who is living afraid I guess? 

 

And the constitution, as has been and will continue to be, allowed to restrict certain types of arms to citizenry.

 

It is your right to disagree or dislike, but it is what it is.

 

 

 

  Statistically you should play the lottery if you are worried about getting shot.  Or just stay out of the zones where all teh shootings happen.

 

 

 Well I do play the lottery occasionally, I am in no means worried about getting shot as long as I stay out of the woods the first week of deer season. ;-)

 

 

 

 Or get rid of the drug war and guns wouldn't be a problem.

 

 That is a silly notion.  Less of a problem? Possibly. Violence is a culture.

[Norby]

Sex is violence.

 

Are you aware of the cost of not having guns? (becoming subjects?)

 

Less of a problem definitely and not a problem(in line with other countries stats) probably.

 

If you listen to the news, most of this gun violence lies in certain drug prone areas between users  and dealers, etc.  The number of people killed by long guns(of which ak's and every long hunting rifle, etc. is a part of) is used in less than 1% or 2% of all the gun related violence.  Showing you are worried about AK's is showing you have some fear that is not rational of ak's.  When the root of all violence has nothing to do with guns, and you pick on guns shows there is some problem in your general world view if you are to focus on them.  Pistols are the guns used in almost all violence and in a LOT of self defense.  Remember not all stats are a victim, a lot are the assailant.  Why would you worry about something that is involved in less violence and more sport than anything?  You got something against fun?

  Guns like that are for defending property and family.  I'm not afraid but think it would be reasonable to have in case of an emergency(esp. with current gov't policy and how society is reacting).

And if you get rid of them in a violent society you will create more victims than anything.  And then the violent ones will move on to fertilizer bombs and nepalm bombs and much nastier stuff.  Guns are the great equalizer as anyone can be good with one if they choose.  The gov't doesn't owe you protection domestically, tehy can't be everywhere at once.  They show up to clean up and possibly find the culprit.  The more we are responsible for our own protection the less of a flock of lambs we are with too few (real) shepards.

  Do you have insurance?

Edited January 20, 2015 by Norby

[YesMichigan]

Texas dad shoots 10-year-old daughter while showing off gun to friends

 

 

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/01/texas-dad-shoots-10-year-old-daughter-while-showing-off-gun-to-friends/

 

 From the weekend.

 

:-)

 

Woohooo! Second amendment!!!

 

See, here I was about to say "Let's not make this some 2nd right gun rights debate." but then you throw some bait out like this?

 

I won't take the bait because my intention has never been to debate the second amendment. I just want a feel of the land regarding NRA / anti-prohibitionist cross-over. In a desire to better understand, and perhaps, represent  the community it is helpful to understand both sides and that is why I value your input on the topic.

 

I won't engage in the trolling that you display with your last comment. As Restorium, and you, pointed out - MANY Democrats are staunch defenders of the Second Amendment. I know this to be true as I personally know them, the pro-gun ones I'm acquainted with are Prohibitionists though (aka no one told them they are Republicans even though they are pro-choice). I'm not going to participate in insincere emotional debate on a topic that deserves its own thread and focus.

 

I will stand by my assertion that people killing people with guns isn't a top 10 killer in the US (if you remove suicides in case you can't understand the statement). I notice you post a firearm incident you can find today. You remind me EXACTLY of a Republican reveling in a child going to the Hospital for Medical Marijuana ingestion in Colorado. Celebrate the shooting of a child and feel good it was with a firearm. Make a snarky comment exclaiming how the child is in the hospital because of the Second Amendment. Yet you don't know if it was a "legitimate" hunting rifle that you would have no desire to restrict.

 

Now let's find every other method that a child was injured and post it, then joyously parade the cause of harm and lament that people can still have access to it. Any car accidents you'd like to celebrate? If you're so worried about the lives of children I'm sure you advocate a 35 mph speed limit which is PROVEN will save children's lives. You could save 10x the number of children that are lost annually to guns if Congress would just rein in those metallic beasts the automobiles! Driving isn't even a RIGHT! It is a privilege! How long can this madness continue? I'm sure you'll start work on the campaign tomorrow as you are obviously SO concerned about the welfare of children.

 

Why is the desire so strong to regulate a less than 1% form of preventable death yet the more prevalent forms are ignored? I'm bowing out as it pertains to the second amendment barring something than tired old left and right talking points. I'll just watch Bloomberg and LaPierre fight it out for the same rhetoric.

 

 

Stay classy.

[Norby]

If I die from a bullet I'll die happy knowing I lived in a free country as a free man.  At a certain point life means little if you are so restricted it isn't enjoyable.  I'm not afraid to live in a free country.  It seems so many people out there fear other people being free around them.  From MJ, to religion, to guns, to sex with the same sex, to owning pit bulls, to............... and the chances anybody will gay rape you or force you to smoke a joint or that a gun will take your life rather than save it, etc.etc.etc. is miniscule yet people spend all their time fighting one or the other.  Seems silly.  I just want to be able to freely carry because criminals do whether there is a law or not.  I only want equal ground if need be. 

 

And as for protection against gov't, during the passing of the safe act in NYS there were reps wanting to pass the bill at 4am and direct cops to go door to door confiscating AK's, my dad's shotgun because it's a semi auto and everything else they ended up having you register, literally hours after it's passing in the middle of the night.  Some of these politicians are so vain as to use the police force to start a civil war over confiscating guns.  So don't go there.  Look up Baurle's interview of Mark Grasanti and pay attention to what Mark Grasanti said.  It was something like "u are lucky we got the bill we did.  Other reps wanted the bill passed at 3 am and cops to start knocking on doors confiscating them that very morning".  So they passed registration rather than confiscation like a lot of them wanted.

Edited January 21, 2015 by Norby

[+Malamute]

I never said I was against guns. I support the second amendment. I understand the true costs of such a freedom.  And it is perfectly understandable to say I think machine guns do not need to be owned by the public(ruled constitutional) but you can get a special license for it.  I see no need for sawed off shotguns(constitutional ban).  And I personally see no use for AK type weaponry.(no ruling ever made, yet)  It is a fully legitimate view. 

 

 It doesn't make me against guns or the one phrase of the second amendment, or anything of that nature.  I just believe there are certain limits to certain freedoms, and with great freedom comes great responsibility.

 

 And if I can ask,.. what "sport" uses an AK? None correct?

 

 All I am saying is treat AK type weaponry same as machine guns.  Special licensing and setup clubs/ranges etc that can have them and everyone can go shoot  them to their hearts content for entertainment purposes,... it is not a sport.  We know what guns are used for sport and competition. 

 

 And,.. Yesmichigan,... you SPECIFICALLY requested examples.  I merely gave them.

 

 Understand the cost of freedoms.  We all pay for them every single day. 

 

 And yes,... a detour on topic.

 

 Still nothing about Libertarianism and the points I made? :-)

[YesMichigan]

 And if I can ask,.. what "sport" uses an AK? None correct?

 

 And,.. Yesmichigan,... you SPECIFICALLY requested examples.  I merely gave them.

 

 

 Still nothing about Libertarianism and the points I made? :-)

 

Whatever you say.

 

As I said earlier, I won't go back to find whatever you said on the topic. If you want to restate it then great. I've had to re-type the same points enough times in this thread that you can do it here if it matters to you. (Does everyone see the R next to Rand Paul's name now?)

[Restorium2]

 (Does everyone see the R next to Rand Paul's name now?)

 

Yup. It's there because he understands that there will be only two choices in 2018 that can win. Elections are about compromise. You get some things you want and for that you put up with what you don't like. There's good and evil, so to speak. So when you vote it's always the choice of the lesser of two evils. To use that as a cop-out to not vote is just laziness. You will never get what you want that way and you just might have to put up with more stuff you didn't like because you didn't vote.  No one can take up your slack when you don't vote. I wish I could but it's your vote and only your vote. 

[Norby]

I never said I was against guns. I support the second amendment. I understand the true costs of such a freedom.  And it is perfectly understandable to say I think machine guns do not need to be owned by the public(ruled constitutional) but you can get a special license for it.  I see no need for sawed off shotguns(constitutional ban).  And I personally see no use for AK type weaponry.(no ruling ever made, yet)  It is a fully legitimate view. 

 

 It doesn't make me against guns or the one phrase of the second amendment, or anything of that nature.  I just believe there are certain limits to certain freedoms, and with great freedom comes great responsibility.

 

 And if I can ask,.. what "sport" uses an AK? None correct?

 

 All I am saying is treat AK type weaponry same as machine guns.  Special licensing and setup clubs/ranges etc that can have them and everyone can go shoot  them to their hearts content for entertainment purposes,... it is not a sport.  We know what guns are used for sport and competition. 

 

 And,.. Yesmichigan,... you SPECIFICALLY requested examples.  I merely gave them.

 

 Understand the cost of freedoms.  We all pay for them every single day. 

 

 And yes,... a detour on topic.

 

 Still nothing about Libertarianism and the points I made? :-)

It's understandable because it is already law, there is no reason for it.  You can't use a gov't decision to show validity, the gov't thinks MJ is bad.

 

Why?  It will do absolutely nothing to register them, but it will give the gov't a list(a very short one, no one registered in NYS).  Why do you want to restrict peoples freedom?  If you are not afraid of them why do you want them restricted?

 

You are against guns, there is no reason to register them.  It won't help you find the perp, it won't stop shootings.  Focus on the cause if you want to stop it.  Should we just make them illegal like mj?  Then no one but the criminals will have them, and people who don't commit crimes can become criminals because they don;t register.  Why do you want to give politicians the power to subjugate us? 

 

As I said, less than one percent of violent acts are commited by long guns, of which Ak's etc. are a SUBSET.  Ak's are hardly used in ANY crimes but you still want them registered or illegal.  Thank you for showing me the exact example that there are anti MJ people out there.  They don't look at the stats and have an irrational fear(emotion) drive their beliefs.

Edited January 21, 2015 by Norby

[YesMichigan]

 (Does everyone see the R next to Rand Paul's name now?)

 

Yup. It's there because he understands that there will be only two choices in 2018 that can win. Elections are about compromise. You get some things you want and for that you put up with what you don't like. There's good and evil, so to speak. So when you vote it's always the choice of the lesser of two evils. To use that as a cop-out to not vote is just laziness. You will never get what you want that way and you just might have to put up with more stuff you didn't like because you didn't vote.  No one can take up your slack when you don't vote. I wish I could but it's your vote and only your vote. 

 

There you go again, assuming facts that aren't in evidence. That is poor form. I have already indicated that I do vote, but when faced with candidates like these:

 

Rep. Alberta Tinsley-Talabi http://002.housedems.com/biography

You know her history of fighting medical marijuana. She was recently one of only four democrats to cross the aisle and vote nay on House Bill 4271. I know that pains you none as I think I know your position on the Dispensary bills in motion, but I don't profess to know if there is a candidate that expresses your view. I see Talabi and I see a person I can not support.

 

Or

 

House Democrat Leader Tim Greimel

 

"Greimel, emphasizing that he was speaking only for himself and not all House Democrats, said Tuesday that he has "serious concerns about any proposal to legitimize, decriminalize or legalize" marijuana."

http://www.mlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2013/05/marijuana_decriminalization_in.html

 

That is the person the Democrats of the state choice as their leader.

 

Like I say, you have the tiger by the tail when it comes to knowing good and evil. Sounds like you vote straight party ticket and that is Democracy for you. I applaud and support your right. I applaud and support everyone though. If they vote or not. If they work or not. If they are "smart" or not. If they are a human I won't look for a way to urinate on them. Reading some of your comments on this forum (not to me because I'm impervious) I think zinging people does give you a thrill. Just a hunch. I'll admit - I enjoy upsetting people who enjoy upsetting people.

 

True freedom means having the right to not vote, which is available in this country. I exercise my right to vote. I also exercise my right to abstain from voting when I think both candidates in question suck. Only one of us thinks the other person "Has to" change their mind and their way of thinking. (Hint: It isn't me).

 

I have lived for a long time as Democrats and Republicans cultivated an environment of fear. Clinton, Bush and Obama. Democratic Houses and Senate at various times. Nothing. Nothing. YEARS spent looking over my shoulder. Years spent wishing somebody would fervently speak the words of freedom for all that was promised. The Democratic Party is your Salvation and you accept it with its flaws. I hear many say the same about the Catholic faith. I don't judge them or you for your belief. I will move through this world trying to get as little of yours or their dogma on me.

[Restorium2]

Yup. If someone wants to kill you they can just wait until you go out to get your mail and run you over with their car. Guns are just the easiest way to do it. Next ....

[+Malamute]

As I said,... freedoms aren't always absolute.

 

 Such as Freedom of Speech.  I mean.. basic stuff such as yelling fire in a crowded theatre and inciting a riot are obvious "infringements" to the first amendment if taken as absolute. But we also allow defamation and slander to collect damages.

 

I don't even think they will ever get rid of AK's and such,... but I feel I have a right to slightly disagree on the absolutism of freedoms in certain areas.

 

 individual rights, universal freedoms and the common good is a balancing act.  Seeking a more perfect balance is the duty of every American born citizen. 

[Restorium2]

 

YesMichigan Quote; There you go again, assuming facts that aren't in evidence. That is poor form. I have already indicated that I do vote, 

 

Then why did you feel the need to reply? 

[YesMichigan]

 

YesMichigan Quote; There you go again, assuming facts that aren't in evidence. That is poor form. I have already indicated that I do vote, 

 

Then why did you feel the need to reply? 

 

Because your post gave me the chance to highlight Talabi and Greimel.

 

Thank you.

[Restorium2]

Because your post gave me the chance to highlight Talabi and Greimel.

 

Thank you.

Then you really didn't need the defensive insult right? And you speak of poor form? lol

[YesMichigan]

Then you really didn't need the defensive insult right? And you speak of poor form? lol

 

Defensive insult? What I said was spot on. For you to talk about anyone slinging "defensive insults" is comical.

 

I do apologize if I hurt your feelings. I would like nothing more than an expectation of civility. I don't see that from you. Not just in interactions with me.

 

But hey, I'm a jerk and I am sorry if the insult was over the line.

[Restorium2]

Defensive insult? What I said was spot on. For you to talk about anyone slinging "defensive insults" is comical.

 

I do apologize if I hurt your feelings. I would like nothing more than an expectation of civility. I don't see that from you. Not just in interactions with me.

 

But hey, I'm a jerk and I am sorry if the insult was over the line.

Flailing still I see. Good work with your hater thread though. I could tell from the title it was going to be excellent. 

[YesMichigan]

Good work with your hater thread though. I could tell from the title it was going to be excellent. 

 

Thank you!

 

This is a breakthrough for sure. Thank you again for such high praise.

[Norby]

As I said,... freedoms aren't always absolute.

 

 Such as Freedom of Speech.  I mean.. basic stuff such as yelling fire in a crowded theatre and inciting a riot are obvious "infringements" to the first amendment if taken as absolute. But we also allow defamation and slander to collect damages.

 

I don't even think they will ever get rid of AK's and such,... but I feel I have a right to slightly disagree on the absolutism of freedoms in certain areas.

 

 individual rights, universal freedoms and the common good is a balancing act.  Seeking a more perfect balance is the duty of every American born citizen. 

If you are seeking a more perfect balance you should be passing out AK's.

You have every right to your opinion but when it infringes on my freedom with no evidence of a problem or any proof that it would help and no proof that it wouldn't hurt society I see it the same as limiting MJ.  Go after people if someone actually commits a crime against people.  i don't agree you can't yell fire in a crowded movie theatre either.  If you hurt people, have a case for the ACTUAL DAMAGE YOU DID.  These laws to make the world a less violent place does not address the problem and may well be going right where they want you(making things MUCH worse).

 

You will never fear me into giving up my rights.  I grew up in the 70's and it was GREAT!  By all rights I should be dead now!

Edited January 21, 2015 by Norby

[Norby]

What happened to freedom loving Americans?  Everyone wants to take something away from someone else and the politicians use it to conquer, why can't people see that.  Whether it's money from the rich(we can make our own exchanges), guns from the avg. joe, sex rites and freedoms because you don't understand why they would want to do that, mj, drugs, jobs, pets, and because they don't understand it, everyone's pursuit of happiness.  Let's make it a little more dangerous, then maybe not as many will use drugs.  Grow your own food and you won't need as much money and people will probably be healthier and so will the environment.  What happened to providing for yourself?  Maybe people wouldn't be as afraid if they had more control over their own life.  I don't know? just sick of everyone trying to make me have healthcare, take away my guns, my rite to take care of myself and everyone wants to rely on the gov't to fix everything.  Just frustrated, sorry.

 

Ak's are a shooting sport when you and your friends have competitions on accuracy. I don't understand curling but I don't want to take it away from them. or only make them use rubber so no one gets hurt.

 

I'm not going to hurt anyone, I never have in my life(except in self defense) and a lot of people think I'm VERY helpful, why does everyone want to control my actions?

Edited January 21, 2015 by Norby

[Norby]

The Flint Police Dept just announced that they need the help of the community and that they just don't have the resources to keep the city safe.