Washington State After 2.5 Years Of Legalization

[beourbud]

boy these legal lies guys are showing their true colors.

 

if you cant get the sigs maybe you should reconsider.

 

"America always does the right thing, after it has exhausted all options"  Winston Churchill

 

We the People are going to getter done    Abrogate

Edited December 18, 2015 by beourbud

[imiubu]

milegalize section 12 would possibly make any violation of marijuana crime (except providing to a minor and dui) a $100 ticket. not arrestable.

 

milegalize would protect, by my estimation based on washingtons statistics in this thread, 90%+ of the 20,000 non-patients who are arrested each year for possession of marijuana in michigan.

 

so if milegalize protects 18,000 people from arrest after it is passed, then it is a win, in my book.

does it protect everyone? of course not. is it the best proposal ever? of course not.

 

is it a change for the better? yes.

 

will it protect mmma patients who are over their limits from being arrested? possibly.

 

does milegalize hurt mmma in any way? no.

 

I am thinking a little bit beyond the empty promises and possibilities of ML to what we have already seen done by leos/court/ gov't with the MMMA.

 

Is that so difficult for others to see?  And yes... it will hurt us in ways that most can't grasp I guess.

 

Mostly... we can't take it back once it is law.  Years and years later we will still be making more laws to fix this one.

[t-pain]

i think lids made a great point about fixing the abrogate language to include a sentence to block any and all penalties for marijuana.

 

much like section4 of the mmma has.

 

timmah ignored this good idea and now you are shooting the messenger ad hominem.

[beourbud]

Legal Lies is riddled with designer loopholes, tailored for a chosen few

Edited December 18, 2015 by beourbud

[imiubu]

Maybe Tim is considering what that poster presented and has also chosen to not be baited into arguing on forum boards?

 

IDK... just tossing out some possibilities.

[imiubu]

Can we stop the 'legal lies' mantra now?

[beourbud]

imiubu,,,,told you abrogate brings the members out of the woodwork...

 

GO ABROGATE

[t-pain]

it will hurt us in ways that most can't grasp I guess.

in what way? be specific. otherwise you are throwing fear around without basis.

 

this is the same "the sky will fall" garbage that the prohibitionists said when i502, a64 and oregon / alaska laws were proposed. same with bill schuette saying fear fear fear before the passage of the mmma.

 

whats the specific harms with milegalize?

 

you compared with what the leo/legislature did with the mmma? for the most part the mmma works. it protects a large amount of the people who are registered under it and a broad amount of drs and family members. the mmma does not protect everyone and milegalize will be the same as the mmma in that regard.

[beourbud]

in what way? be specific. otherwise you are throwing fear around without basis.

 

The law will not protect people equally across the state.  We will continue to be abused by leo and the courts here in republicanistan. while folk doing the same thing on the east side walk.  The republican leadership is already writing preemptive law to sabotage MJ here.

legal lies doesnt care about the little guy.   THAT IS WHY THEY ARE LEGAL LIES.

 

to whom it may concern

Expressing the sentiments of myself and my neighbors,  if you dont like the way it reads to bad.

Edited December 18, 2015 by beourbud

[imiubu]

in what way? be specific. otherwise you are throwing fear around without basis.

 

Is that any different than making promises that can't be kept?

 

How about telling folks it will "end prohibition' knowing that's a lie and yet they decide play the political hand instead and run with it as their 'slogan'?

Due to past behavior of 'the man' is reason enough for me to not fall for the legalization bait and switch.

 

Someone who can better explain specifics of legalese might be better suited to answer you than I t.

I will attempt to do so a bit later but I can't do so off the cuff and a well presented answer like that will take some thoughtful writing and organization.

[t-pain]

thanks i look forward to specific harms when anyone has time to articulate them.

[outsideinthecold]

Sometimes being isolated over here in Harbor country has its advantages. Checked with six of the seven shops with grow supplies yesterday. Two had MILegalize petitions. Neither was on display where casual walk-in customers could see them. None of the folks seemed very interested in the initiative or the mj related issues discussed on this forum.

 

This always amazes me. Grow store owners and customers oblivious to Lansing's machinations that could or will affect their lives?

 

But it is understandable if you realize most have adjusted to life under the MMMA and although very aware bad things can happen, most just shrug their shoulders and get on with living their lives.

 

I wish any or all the initiative proponents well. The financial and signature-gathering barriers MILegalize faces seem daunting. If Abbrogate doesn't have five-grand to begin printing petitions, their's must even greater.

[Restorium2]

Sometimes being isolated over here in Harbor country has its advantages. Checked with six of the seven shops with grow supplies yesterday. Two had MILegalize petitions. Neither was on display where casual walk-in customers could see them. None of the folks seemed very interested in the initiative or the mj related issues discussed on this forum.

 

This always amazes me. Grow store owners and customers oblivious to Lansing's machinations that could or will affect their lives?

 

But it is understandable if you realize most have adjusted to life under the MMMA and although very aware bad things can happen, most just shrug their shoulders and get on with living their lives.

 

I wish any or all the initiative proponents well. The financial and signature-gathering barriers MILegalize faces seem daunting. If Abbrogate doesn't have five-grand to begin printing petitions, their's must even greater.

I went to my local grow store and explained the quazi part. They are a lot less excited about it. They thought it was legalization. Can't blame a guy for spreading the truth around a little. It's the Holidays. LOL

[Norby]

Ignorance is bliss, wish I could go back to not caring.  Life would be much easier to just adapt since it seems we aren't in control anyway.

 

And Milegalize IS legalization.  Decriminalization is the word you are looking for.  It'd be better if you did a refresher on your terms, this way you could spread the correct info.

[Norby]

Is that any different than making promises that can't be kept?

 

How about telling folks it will "end prohibition' knowing that's a lie and yet they decide play the political hand instead and run with it as their 'slogan'?

Due to past behavior of 'the man' is reason enough for me to not fall for the legalization bait and switch.

 

Someone who can better explain specifics of legalese might be better suited to answer you than I t.

I will attempt to do so a bit later but I can't do so off the cuff and a well presented answer like that will take some thoughtful writing and organization.

No Imi, it will end prohibition, it just doesn't decriminalize as you would wish it to. Certain amounts would be LEGAL to possess and smoke and you couldn't get arrested for it.  Please brush up on your terms.  I had to correct Resto on the same terminology.

 

Did you fall for the MMMA bait and switch that others voted in for you?

Edited December 18, 2015 by Norby

[imiubu]

Best get out your dictionary for starters.

 

WTH is decriminalization anyway?

 

I am talking about complete removal from CSA/ PHC.

 

What is so hard to understand about that?

 

Who voted in the MMMP for me Norby? 

 

I am not going around this same old tired circle with you anymore brother.

 

I also understand a whole lot more about how laws and politics work since I did in '08.

There is no bait and switch with MMMA.  The law was never implemented is what happened.

Soo... why would I believe that ML would be implemented ?

Is that so hard to understand?

 

Does anyone truly believe that leo/courts/gov't will respond any differently to another 'weed' law BY THE PEOPLE???

Doing the same thing expecting different results is ... well... _____ (fill in your choice of explicative here).

 

geesh.  It is simple really and no amount bullying by anyone is going to make me unread the writing on this particular wall.

 

 

btw, I never said I was 100% behind abrogate, only that it remains what I feel my best choice given what choices I have thus far.

[Norby]

verb (used with object), decriminalized, decriminalizing.

1. to eliminate criminal penalties for or remove legal restrictions against: That is abrogate. Which means corporations can swoop in and grow fields as far as the eye can see and spray whatever they want on it.  China can access our MKTs. I think.  It removes ALL criminal penalties corps should have no problem taking over.

 

To legalize or remove prohibition from is legalization, which means it's no longer prohibited but limited. That's Milegalize. Which limits it to personal, I think.  Corporations would not be able to grow fields of MJ for sale, I think

 

If you think the same politicians would not put more laws on the books after decriminalization also think again.  There is no silver bullet.  Abrogate would be better for everyone including corporations.

About 66% of the population voted in the MMA for you, me, everyone here.

so why would you not want everyone to be in teh same boat for the fight against the anti politicians?  They seem to be kicking our donkey on the MMMA.  Do you not think we need more fight?  If nothing passes nothing changes, they still keep putting people in jail for less than an oz and for growing anything in their homes.  At least SOME people would be protected, just like the MMMA did for most of us.  Unless it didn't work but you've all gotta be in the same boat.  You can't say the MMMA worked and Milegalize won't.  I'm not in jail nor are any of my patients.

Edited December 18, 2015 by Norby

[+Malamute]

It was 62.67% that voted for medical cannabis in 2008.

[+Malamute]

Let me just be the wet blanket for now,

 

At this point, without any changes, NEITHER MiLegalize or Abrogate will make the ballot. 

 

Mute argument until signatures are gathered,. So save it for then.

 

:-)

[Timmahh]

Anyone link to the Legislation being presented in Wa State that is trying to make it a Felony Conviction for a Minor caught with any cannabis?


Ya, can we have some of that too? SMDH.

[Timmahh]

you might want to read the abrogate thread , specifically the post by the lids on riu where timmah does not understand the language of his own proposal.

 

timmah's language has the same loopholes that mmma has. funny no one talks about that.

 

By all means point them out if you can.

 

 

 

The Abrogate Prohibition Michigan Amendment

A proposal to amend the State Constitution regarding the prohibition of the use of Cannabis.

 

This proposal would add a new Section 28 to Article 1 of the State Constitution to read as follows:

Section 28.

(1) The agricultural, personal, recreational, medicinal, commercial and industrial use of cannabis in any form by any person shall be a lawful activity.

(a) Cannabis use by any person who is; the ward of an adult, enrolled in K*12 school, a minor, shall be lawful activity requiring only parental or legal

guardian authorization.

 

(2) All prohibitions on the use of cannabis in any form by any person is hereby null and void, and henceforth abrogated.

 

(3) “Use of Cannabis” shall include: 

(a) The growing, manufacture, delivery, purchase, consumption, and transport, of any seed, flower, leaf, mixture, derivative, extract, product, and or 

preparation of the cannabis plant for all personal, recreational, medicinal, commercial and industrial purposes.

 

(4) No excise tax, no fines, no regulation to diminish use, shall be levied or allowed for use of Cannabis.

 

(5) Severability: If any section, subsection or part of this amendment is for any reason held to be invalid or unconstitutional, the remaining sections, 

subsections or parts of those sections shall not be affected but will remain in full force and effect.

[Timmahh]

i think lids made a great point about fixing the abrogate language to include a sentence to block any and all penalties for marijuana.

 

much like section4 of the mmma has.

 

timmah ignored this good idea and now you are shooting the messenger ad hominem.

I answered those questions. apparently to the satisfaction of lids as he comprehended my answers.

[t-pain]

i'd like to know malamutes' opinion on abrogate language.

while i've been able to find problems in milegalize and mcc (and get them to fix some of the problems), i'm not anywhere near a master at reading this stupid law language. ( to be clear, i'm calling the courts interpretation stupid)

[+Malamute]

What I would say, is there are some gaps in the language.

 

 But, it is fine.

 

 I mean, it is unrealistic it will make the ballot or pass even if it does make the ballot,.... but, yea,... it would be fine.

 

It would cause some crazy unintended issues and problems,... but yea,..

 

Anything can always be better. 

 

I think more language could have been used. A few defining words and terms of inclusion,.. but it is ok.

 

(1) The agricultural, personal, recreational, medicinal, commercial and industrial use of cannabis in any form by any person shall be a lawful activity.

 

 

 

Such as that phrase could use a couple more defining terms and inclusory language...(believe it or not).

 

And then this phrase could have used more terminology because of the few things missing in the definition of use.

 

(2) All prohibitions on the use of cannabis in any form by any person is hereby null and void, and henceforth abrogated.

 

 

(3) “Use of Cannabis” shall include:

 

(a) The growing, manufacture, delivery, purchase, consumption, and transport, of any seed, flower, leaf, mixture, derivative, extract, product, and or

 

preparation of the cannabis plant for all personal, recreational, medicinal, commercial and industrial purposes.

 

 

As you see there, a couple more terms were needed in that definition. 

 

 

And overall, I would have added an extra section of protection language.

[+Malamute]

And there will be challenges to its constitutionality as well,.... of course. I know, weird thing, but it will happen.