Need Your Grow Questions Answered? Come On In!

[ToadInCan]

glad to hear things are going well!!

 

mother plants ...... do i or dont i??

 

many folks believe that a plant/genetics will "lose its luster" if you just take clones from vegging plants cycle after cycle.

 

i am on board with that idea ....... but i feel its more strain specific than anything else. i know people who have 20-25th generation clones and swear up and down it's just as good as the original. on the other hand, i know folks that swear their strains arent the same after just a few generations.

 

keeping mother plants ends all confusion and avoids the possibility of the strain getting "watered down" after a few cycles (or a few years of cycles)

 

mother plants are also a way to keep genetics around without actually growing them out.

 

mother plants double your chances of keeping the strain around as well. if you have a disaster in the grow room and lose everything..... you still have the mother plants..... or vice versa.

 

many people with larger grows keep mothers because its a way to take 20-30-40 clones all at once and know that they are "all the same" as far as age and strain and everything else.

 

with the popularity of fem seeds these days, i see 12-24 plant growers going without mother plants more and more often.

 

i guess that one is totally up to you. if you KNOW that you are going to keep the genetics around for a LONG time ...... i'd keep mothers.

 

if you are just going to make a couple/few runs and then switch out genetics for new ...... i'd save the plant count and go without mothers.

 

 

Thanks for the insight BG. I've decided that I'm not set up for mothers yet. A couple more walls and a door, maybe some more good lighting... then I'll start my mother plants. For now, I've got all that I can handle moving plants through my perpetual grow. If things get any busier I'll have to think about a career change.

 

I've heard the "watered down" theory before, though I'm not sure that the science supports it. Not that I'd argue the point with anyone, because I have no experience with this plant. I do know that I develop a tolerance to the meds that I'm using, and then it takes more to get to the same place. I've even taken to making up a little blend of two or three different buds. WOW! Sometimes I wish I'd had one or two less hits.

 

I'm still in my first year of doing this, and I'm grateful to you and all of the experienced growers that have taught me so much. The bubbletote system is amazing. Simple, cheap, efficient... just what I was looking for. I've even converted several growers.

 

Thanks again for all the help.

 

Toad

[Mike Sativa]

Well, had a tragedy today.

 

I was going to switch my lights so i could begin flowering on my P.E. So i go to raise it so the glass dont hit the plant, and BOOM ! my light fell down

 

Thank God nothing broke. even had the glass part open. darn stud finder said there was one there. Climb into the attic to find theres no stud there ! Im gonna put a 2x4 on both sides now (attic and closet ceiling)

 

Guess im gonna go get more clones from the dispinsery unless someone could help me out with 2...So Sad right now lol...

 

Have a good one.

[Bisharoo]

Sorry I am not in a position to help Mike. That is like a lot of what happens in my home whenever I try to do handy man stuff Ha Ha!

Hope you find those clones!

 

 

New question. I am, sure it is in here but I am having trouble finding out what is the optimum PH and PPM levels for you guys doing bubbles?

 

Thanks!

Edited April 7, 2011 by Bisharoo

[LongHairBri]

I got a few nice ones, where you at?

[Mike Sativa]

I got a few nice ones, where you at?

 

mt pleasant area, prolly too far

 

I got her pieced back together and she now has been topped from the glass on my hood

 

We'll See..

 

Suppose to get the pre 98 bk this weekend, if so.. ill be set !

[Bisharoo]

Just found this on PH & PPM. Does this information look OK to you guys? Specifically the parts where recommendations are made for specific PH & TDS/PPM readings for different times in the plant's cycle. Is that what you guys follow or something close?

 

Cannabis Nutrient Disorders

Nutrient disorders are caused by too much or too little of one or several nutrients being available. These nutrients are made available between a pH range of 5 and 7 and a total dissolved solids (TDS) range of 800 to 3000 PPM. Maintaining these conditions is the key to proper nutrient uptake. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Nutrients Over twenty elements are needed for a plant to grow. Carbon, hydrogen and oxygen are absorbed from the air and water. The rest of the elements, called mineral nutrients, are dissolved in the nutrient solution. The primary or macro- nutrients (nitrogen (N), phosphorus (P) and potassium (K)) are the elements plants use the most. Calcium (Ca) and magnesium (Mg) are secondary nutrients and used in smaller amounts. Iron (Fe), sulfur (S), manganese (Mn), boron (B), molybdenum (Mo), zinc (Zn) and copper (Cu) are micro-nutrients or trace elements. Trace elements are found in most soils. Rockwool (hydroponic) fertilizers must contain these trace elements, as they do not normally exist in sufficient quantities in rockwool or water. Other elements also play a part in plant growth. Aluminum, chlorine, cobalt, iodine, selenium, silicon, sodium and vanadium are not normally included in nutrient mixes. They are required in very minute amounts that are usually present as impurities in the water supply or mixed along with other nutrients.

 

*NOTE: The nutrients must be soluble (able to be dissolved in water) and go into solution.

 

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Macro-nutrients Nitrogen (N) is primary to plant growth. Plants convert nitrogen to make proteins essential to new cell growth. Nitrogen is mainly responsible for leaf and stem growth as well as overall size and vigor. Nitrogen moves easily to active young buds, shoots and leaves and slower to older leaves. Deficiency signs show first in older leaves. They turn a pale yellow and may die. New growth becomes weak and spindly. An abundance of nitrogen will cause soft, weak growth and even delay flower and fruit production if it is allowed to accumulate.

 

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Phosphorus (P) is necessary for photosynthesis and works as a catalyst for energy transfer within the plant. Phosphorus helps build strong roots and is vital for flower and seed production. Highest levels of phosphorus are used during germination, seedling growth and flowering. Deficiencies will show in older leaves first. Leaves turn deep green on a uniformly smaller, stunted plant. Leaves show brown or purple spots.

 

NOTE: Phosphorus flocculates when concentrated and combined with calcium.

 

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Potassium (K) activates the manufacture and movement of sugars and starches, as well as growth by cell division. Potassium increases chlorophyll in foliage and helps regulate stomata openings so plants make better use of light and air. Potassium encourages strong root growth, water uptake and triggers enzymes that fight disease. Potassium is necessary during all stages of growth. It is especially important in the development of fruit. Deficiency signs of potassium are: plants are the tallest and appear healthy. Older leaves mottle and yellow between veins, followed by whole leaves that turn dark yellow and die. Flower and fruit drop are common problems associated with potassium deficiency. Potassium is usually locked out by high salinity.

 

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Secondary Nutrients Magnesium (Mg) is found as a central atom in the chlorophyll molecule and is essential to the absorption of light energy. Magnesium aids in the utilization of nutrients, neutralizes acids and toxic compounds produced by the plant. Deficiency signs of magnesium are: Older leaves yellow from the center outward, while veins remain green on deficient plants. Leaf tips and edges may discolor and curl upward. Growing tips turn lime green if the deficiency progresses to the top of the plant.

 

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Calcium (Ca) is fundamental to cell manufacture and growth. Soil gardeners use dolomite lime, which contains calcium and magnesium, to keep the soil sweet or buffered. Rockwool gardeners use calcium to buffer excess nutrients. Calcium moves slowly within the plant and tends to concentrate in roots and older growth. Consequently young growth shows deficiency signs first. Deficient leaf tips, edges and new growth will turn brown and die back. If too much calcium is applied early in life, it will stunt growth as well. It will also flocculate when a concentrated form is combined with potassium.

 

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Trace Elements Sulphur (S) is a component of plant proteins and plays a role in root growth and chlorophyll supply. Distributed relatively evenly with largest amounts in leaves which affects the flavor and odor in many plants. Sulphur, like calcium, moves little within plant tissue and the first signs of a deficiency are pale young leaves. Growth is slow but leaves tend to get brittle and stay narrower than normal.

 

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Iron (Fe) is a key catalyst in chlorophyll production and is used in photosynthesis. A lack of iron turns leaves pale yellow or white while the veins remain green. Iron is difficult for plants to absorb and moves slowly within the plant. Always use chelated (immediately available to the plant) iron in nutrient mixes.

 

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Manganese (Mg) works with plant enzymes to reduce nitrates before producing proteins. A lack of manganese turns young leaves a mottled yellow or brown.

 

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Zinc (Z) is a catalyst and must be present in minute amounts for plant growth. A lack of zinc results in stunting, yellowing and curling of small leaves. An excess of zinc is uncommon but very toxic and causes wilting or death.

 

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Copper © is a catalyst for several enzymes. A shortage of copper makes new growth wilt and

causes irregular growth. Excesses of copper causes sudden death. Copper is also used as a fungicide and wards off insects and diseases because of this property.

 

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Boron (B) is necessary for cells to divide and protein formation. It also plays an active role in

pollination and seed production.

 

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Molybdenum (Mn) helps form proteins and aids the plant's ability to fix nitrogen from the air. A

deficiency causes leaves to turn pale and fringes to appear scorched. Irregular leaf growth may also result.

 

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These nutrients are mixed together to form a complete plant fertilizer. The mix contains all the

nutrients in the proper ratios to give plants all they need for lush, rapid growth. The fertilizer is

dissolved in water to make a nutrient solution. Water transports these soluble nutrients into contact with the plant roots. In the presence of oxygen and water, the nutrients are absorbed through the root hairs.

 

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The above text is excerpted from George Van Pattens' excellent book "Gardening: The Rockwool Book".

 

 

Key on Nutrient Disorders

To use the Problem-Solver, simply start at #1 below. When you think you've found the problem, read the Nutrients section to learn more about it. Diagnose carefully before

making major changes. 1) a) If the problem affects only the bottom or middle of the plant go to #2.

b) If it affects only the top of the plant or the growing tips, skip to #10. If the problem seems to affect the entire plant equally, skip to #6.

 

2) a) Leaves are a uniform yellow or light green; leaves die & drop; growth is slow. Leaf margins are not curled-up noticeably. >> Nitrogen (N) deficiency.

b) If not, go to #3.

 

3) a) Margins of the leaves are turned up, and the tips may be twisted. Leaves are yellowing (and may turn brown), but the veins remain somewhat green. >> Magnesium (Mg) deficiency.

b) If not, go to #4.

 

4) a) Leaves are browning or yellowing. Yellow, brown, or necrotic (dead) patches, especially around the edges of the leaf, which may be curled. Plant may be too tall. >> Potassium (K) deficiency.

b) If not, keep reading…

 

5) a) Leaves are dark green or red/purple. Stems and petioles may have purple & red on them. Leaves may turn yellow or curl under. Leaf may drop easily. Growth may be slow and

leaves may be small. >> Phosphorous (P) deficiency.

b) If not, go to #6.

 

6) a) Tips of leaves are yellow, brown, or dead. Plant otherwise looks healthy & green. Stems may be soft >> Over-fertilization (especially N), over-watering, damaged roots, or

insufficient soil aeration (use more sand or perlite. Occasionally due to not enough N, P, or K.

b) If not, go to #7.

 

7) a) Leaves are curled under like a ram's horn, and are dark green, gray,

brown, or gold. >> Over-fertilization (too much N).

b) If not, go to #8…

 

8) a) The plant is wilted, even though the soil is moist. >>Over-fertilization, soggy soil, damaged roots, disease; copper deficiency (very unlikely).

b) If not, go to #9.

 

9) a) Plants won't flower, even though they get 12 hours of darkness for over 2 weeks. >> The night period is not completely dark. Too much nitrogen. Too much pruning or cloning.

b) If not, go to #10...

 

10) a) Leaves are yellow or white, but the veins are mostly green. >> Iron (Fe) deficiency.

b) If not, #11.

 

11) a) Leaves are light green or yellow beginning at the base, while the leaf

margins remain green. Necrotic spots may be between veins. Leaves are not twisted. >> Manganese (Mn) deficiency.

b) If not, #12.

 

12) a) Leaves are twisted. Otherwise, pretty much like #11. >> Zinc (Zn)

deficiency.

b) If not, #13.

 

13) a) Leaves twist, then turn brown or die. >> The lights are too close to the plant. Rarely, a Calcium (Ca) or Boron (B) deficiency.

b) If not… You may just have a weak plant.

 

 

 

Solutions to Nutrient Deficiencies

The Nutrients: Nitrogen - Plants need lots of N during vegging, but it's easy to overdo it. Added too much? Flush the soil with plain water. Soluble nitrogen (especially nitrate) is the form that's the most quickly available to the roots, while insoluble N (like urea) first needs to be broken down by microbes in the soil before the roots can absorb it. Avoid excessive ammonium nitrogen, which can interfere with other nutrients. Too much N delays flowering. Plants should be allowed to become N-deficient late in flowering for best flavor.

 

Magnesium - Mg-deficiency is pretty common since cannabis uses lots of it and many fertilizers don't have enough of it. Mg-deficiency is easily fixed with ¼ teaspoon/gallon of Epsom salts (first powdered and dissolved in some hot water) or foliar feed at ½ teaspoon/quart. When mixing up soil, use 2 teaspoon dolomite lime per gallon of soil for Mg. Mg can get locked-up by too much Ca, Cl or ammonium nitrogen. Don't overdo Mg or you'll lock up other nutrients.

 

Potassium - Too much sodium (Na) displaces K, causing a K deficiency. Sources of high salinity are: baking soda (sodium bicarbonate "pH-up"), too much manure, and the use of water-softening filters (which should not be used). If the problem is Na, flush the soil. K can get locked up from too much Ca or ammonium nitrogen, and possibly cold weather.

 

Phosphorous - Some deficiency during flowering is normal, but too much shouldn't be tolerated. Red petioles and stems are a normal, genetic characteristic for many varieties, plus it can also be a co-symptom of N, K, and Mg-deficiencies, so red stems are not a foolproof sign of P-deficiency. Too much P can lead to iron deficiency.

 

Iron - Fe is unavailable to plants when the pH of the water or soil is too high. If deficient, lower the pH to about 6.5 (for rockwool, about 5.7), and check that you're not adding too much P, which can lock up Fe. Use iron that's chelated for maximum availability. Read your fertilizer's ingredients - chelated iron might read something like "iron EDTA". To much Fe without adding enough P can cause a P-deficiency.

 

Manganese - Mn gets locked out when the pH is too high, and when there's too much iron. Use

chelated Mn.

 

Zinc - Also gets locked out due to high pH. Zn, Fe, and Mn deficiencies often occur together, and are usually from a high pH. Don't overdo the micro-nutrients- lower the pH if that's the problem so the

nutrients become available. Foliar feed if the plant looks real bad. Use chelated zinc.

 

Check Your Water - Crusty faucets and shower heads mean your water is

"hard," usually due to too

many minerals. Tap water with a TDS (total dissolved solids) level of more

than around 200ppm (parts

per million) is "hard" and should be looked into, especially if your plants

have a chronic problem. Ask

your water company for an analysis listing, which will usually list the pH,

TDS, and mineral levels (as

well as the pollutants, carcinogens, etc) for the tap water in your area.

This is a common request,

especially in this day and age, so it shouldn't raise an eyebrow. Regular

water filters will not reduce a

high TDS level, but the costlier reverse-osmosis units, distillers, and

de-ionizers will. A digital TDS

meter (or EC = electrical conductivity meter) is an incredibly useful tool

for monitoring the nutrient

levels of nutrient solution, and will pay for itself before you know it.

They run about $40 and up.

 

General Feeding Tips - Pot plants are very adaptable, but a general rule of

thumb is to use more

nitrogen & less phosphorous during the vegetative period, and the exact

opposite during the flowering

period. For the veg. period try a N:P:K ratio of about 10:7:8 (which of

course is the same ratio as

20:14:16), and for flowering plants, 4:8:8. Check the pH after adding

nutrients. If you use a reservoir,

keep it circulating and change it every 2 weeks. A general guideline for

TDS levels is as follows:

seedlings = 50-150 ppm; unrooted clones = 100-350 ppm; small plants =

400-800 ppm; large plants =

900-1800 ppm; last week of flowering = taper off to plain water. These

numbers are just a guideline, and

many factors can change the actual level the plants will need. Certain

nutrients are "invisible" to TDS

meters, especially organics, so use TDS level only as an estimate of actual

nutrient levels. When in

doubt about a new fertilizer, follow the fertilizer's directions for

feeding tomatoes. Grow a few tomato or

radish plants nearby for comparison.

 

PH - The pH of water after adding any nutrients should be around 5.9-6.5

(in rock wool, 5.5-6.1) .

Generally speaking, the micro-nutrients (Fe, Zn, Mn, Cu) get locked out at

a high pH (alkaline) above

7.0, while the major nutrients (N, P, K, Mg) can be less available in

acidic soil or water (below 5.0). Tap

water is often too alkaline. Soils with lots of peat or other organic

matter in them tend to get too acidic,

which some dolomite lime will help fix. Soil test kits vary in accuracy,

and generally the more you pay

the better the accuracy. For the water, color-based pH test kits from

aquarium stores are inexpensive,

but inaccurate. Invest in a digital pH meter ($40-80), preferably a

waterproof one. You won't regret it.

 

Other Things…

 

Cold - Cold weather (below 50F/10C) can lock up phosphorous. Some

varieties, like equatorial sativas,

don't take well to cold weather. If you can keep the roots warmer, the

plant will be able to take cooler

temps than it otherwise could.

 

Heat - If the lights are too close to the plant, the tops may be curled,

dry, and look burnt, mimicking a

nutrient problem. Your hand should not feel hot after a minute when you

hold it at the top of the plants.

Raise the lights and/or aim a fan at the hot zone. Room temps should be

kept under 85F (29C) -- or 90F

(33) if you add additional CO2.

 

Humidity - Thin, shriveled leaves can be from low humidity. 40-80 % is

usually fine.

 

Mold and fungus - Dark patchy areas on leaves and buds can be mold. Lower

the humidity and

increase the ventilation if mold is a problem. Remove any dead leaves,

wherever they are. Keep your

garden clean.

 

Insects - White spots on the tops of leaves can mean spider mites

underneath.

 

Sprays - Foliar sprays can have a "magnifying glass" effect under bright

lights, causing small white,

yellow or burnt spots which can be confused with a nutrient problem. Some

sprays can also cause

chemical reactions.

 

Insufficient light -- tall, stretching plants are usually from using the

wrong kind of light.. Don't use

regular incandescent bulbs ("grow bulbs") or halogens to grow cannabis.

Invest in fluorescent lighting

(good) or HID lighting (much better) which supply the high-intensity light

that cannabis needs for

good growth and tight buds. Even better, grow in sunlight.

 

Clones - yellowing leaves on unrooted clones can be from too much light, or

the stem may not be firmly

touching the rooting medium. Turn off any CO2 until they root. Too much

fertilizer can shrivel or wilt

clones - plain tap water is fine.

 

 

[ToadInCan]

 

Cannabis Nutrient Disorders

 

 

 

 

Great post Bish! Very useful information. Thank you! I especially liked the part about flocculating. When I catch a plant flocculating I gotta get the shears out.

[Bisharoo]

What do you guys have to say or add to this general guideline?

 

A general guideline for

TDS levels is as follows:

seedlings = 50-150 ppm; unrooted clones = 100-350 ppm; small plants =

400-800 ppm; large plants =

900-1800 ppm; last week of flowering = taper off to plain water. These

numbers are just a guideline, and

many factors can change the actual level the plants will need. Certain

nutrients are "invisible" to TDS

meters, especially organics, so use TDS level only as an estimate of actual

nutrient levels.

 

PH - The pH of water after adding any nutrients should be around 5.9-6.5

(in rock wool, 5.5-6.1) .

Generally speaking, the micro-nutrients (Fe, Zn, Mn, Cu) get locked out at

a high pH (alkaline) above

7.0, while the major nutrients (N, P, K, Mg) can be less available in

acidic soil or water (below 5.0). Tap

water is often too alkaline.

 

 

[engineered_excellence]

These clones are 22 days in veg, and for about the last week the plant growth has been minimal and some of the middle and lower leaves started to look like this. I think it is a calcium def by looking through the link to diagnose plant problems, but I'm not sure. The plants are in bubble totes, lucas method, using addback formula, RO water... ppm is right where it should be for 0-5-10, but I'm not sure of ph for the last week because I broke my ph meter. I was about to flush these and switch to flower, in fact, I almost have to do it to make room. What would be the best way to proceed? Deal with the deficiency first.. then flush? or flush and start with fresh nutes and see what happens? Keeping in mind that I want to get these in flower as soon as I can.

 

Edited April 8, 2011 by engineered_excellence

[Jipo]

Week 5, You think she's a pounder?

[Bisharoo]

When filling a new tote for clones or seedlings approximately how far below the bottom of the net basket should the water level be? About 5/8 " or so? I know i read it somewhere but I am having trouble finding it. I am doing a first fill/test to see how much liquid for these totes, etc. They are a little different size to fit their spot, so they are Suncrest 12 Gallon from Loews, so I don't think they are the same as what others have used.

Thanks again folks!

[Royal Smoke]

When filling a new tote for clones or seedlings approximately how far below the bottom of the net basket should the water level be? About 5/8 " or so? I know i read it somewhere but I am having trouble finding it. I am doing a first fill/test to see how much liquid for these totes, etc. They are a little different size to fit their spot, so they are Suncrest 12 Gallon from Loews, so I don't think they are the same as what others have used.

Thanks again folks!

 

I think bubblegrower says 1/8 inch. I find that anywhere about an inch to 1/8 inch.

 

As long as when the bubbles are popping, they are getting the clay pebbles a tiny bit wet, that's all you need.

 

 

I've neglected mine before and the water got probably 3 or 4 inches below the pots before refilling. I noticed no problems....

They really don't drink much anyway. I assume most of mine evaporated. LOL

Edited April 8, 2011 by Royal Smoke

[Royal Smoke]

 

Artwork by BubbleGrower

Edited April 8, 2011 by Royal Smoke

[Mike Sativa]

When filling a new tote for clones or seedlings approximately how far below the bottom of the net basket should the water level be? About 5/8 " or so? I know i read it somewhere but I am having trouble finding it. I am doing a first fill/test to see how much liquid for these totes, etc. They are a little different size to fit their spot, so they are Suncrest 12 Gallon from Loews, so I don't think they are the same as what others have used.

Thanks again folks!

 

http://michiganmedicalmarijuana.org/topic/18150-need-your-grow-questions-answered-come-on-in/page__st__340__p__169107#entry169107

 

If you use the totes like in the pics as i did too, it takes exactly 6 gallons to fill it up to the sweet spot.

 

Edited April 8, 2011 by Mike Sativa

[Bisharoo]

I think bubblegrower says 1/8 inch. I find that anywhere about an inch to 1/8 inch.

 

As long as when the bubbles are popping, they are getting the clay pebbles a tiny bit wet, that's all you need.

 

 

I've neglected mine before and the water got probably 3 or 4 inches below the pots before refilling. I noticed no problems....

They really don't drink much anyway. I assume most of mine evaporated. LOL

 

Thanks RS. I am playing with it so you think 1" or less, just watch the bubbles getting the pebbles wet a bit.

Thank you Royal Smoke!

[ToadInCan]

When filling a new tote for clones or seedlings approximately how far below the bottom of the net basket should the water level be? About 5/8 " or so? I know i read it somewhere but I am having trouble finding it. I am doing a first fill/test to see how much liquid for these totes, etc. They are a little different size to fit their spot, so they are Suncrest 12 Gallon from Loews, so I don't think they are the same as what others have used.

Thanks again folks!

 

 

When starting new plants in bubbletotes, I always bring the water/nute level right up until it's almost touching the bottom of the net pots. Then I top water for a few days until all of the plants have roots reaching down into the nutes. It's just something that BG mentioned a while back, and it does make a difference. I top water twice a day, and the plants take off faster than when I just waited for the roots to reach the solution.

[Bisharoo]

Thanks ToadInCan. I appreciate that also good info. to know. You guys are good folks, I don't care what Schuette, Cooper, Bouchard, Obama, Patterson, or Pelossi say about us! Ha Ha!!

[ToadInCan]

These clones are 22 days in veg, and for about the last week the plant growth has been minimal and some of the middle and lower leaves started to look like this. I think it is a calcium def by looking through the link to diagnose plant problems, but I'm not sure. The plants are in bubble totes, lucas method, using addback formula, RO water... ppm is right where it should be for 0-5-10, but I'm not sure of ph for the last week because I broke my ph meter. I was about to flush these and switch to flower, in fact, I almost have to do it to make room. What would be the best way to proceed? Deal with the deficiency first.. then flush? or flush and start with fresh nutes and see what happens? Keeping in mind that I want to get these in flower as soon as I can.

 

 

 

One of the things that I've noticed in using bubbletotes is that when the plant displays a deficiency, my pH is out of range. I'm using well water, adjusted to just below six, and when I'm in that range the plants are happy. When the plants start showing any problems, the pH has always been either too high or too low. It's like everything they need is there in the Lucas formula, but when the pH is wrong the plants can't get it.

[Grow Thread]

 

Artwork by BubbleGrower

 

 

http://michiganmedic...107#entry169107

 

If you use the totes like in the pics as i did too, it takes exactly 6 gallons to fill it up to the sweet spot.

 

 

 

When starting new plants in bubbletotes, I always bring the water/nute level right up until it's almost touching the bottom of the net pots. Then I top water for a few days until all of the plants have roots reaching down into the nutes. It's just something that BG mentioned a while back, and it does make a difference. I top water twice a day, and the plants take off faster than when I just waited for the roots to reach the solution.

 

GREAT ANSWERS!!

 

 

These clones are 22 days in veg, and for about the last week the plant growth has been minimal and some of the middle and lower leaves started to look like this. I think it is a calcium def by looking through the link to diagnose plant problems, but I'm not sure. The plants are in bubble totes, lucas method, using addback formula, RO water... ppm is right where it should be for 0-5-10, but I'm not sure of ph for the last week because I broke my ph meter. I was about to flush these and switch to flower, in fact, I almost have to do it to make room. What would be the best way to proceed? Deal with the deficiency first.. then flush? or flush and start with fresh nutes and see what happens? Keeping in mind that I want to get these in flower as soon as I can.

 

 

when growing like this, ppm and ph "can" get screwed up simply because we are growing them so fast through veg. the amounts of different nutrients that the plant is taking from the water, added to any temp changes in that water can change things up pretty quickly.

 

first, i would flush them for 24 hours, and then resume normal nutes for a few days before putting them in flower. thats just me, but i like to have 100% happy, healthy, and dialed in/squared away plants before introducing flower.

 

because of the rate that your stain is taking/leaving certain nutes it may be necessary for you to dump/refill more often, or add a couple ml of cal-mag to your lucas nutes to aid in keeping things proper.

 

i know that people get wrapped up the cost of nutrients and wasting them ..... and people even trying to reuse them ..... but with the lucas there is really no need to be frugal about it ..... its soooooooo cheap as it is ....

 

so yeah .... dump/refill more often or add 2-3ml/gal and see what you see. you wont need to do a full 24hr flush every time ..... just a dump and refill with clean water and nutes every 10 days or so and then do your normal 24hr flushes when needed.

 

One of the things that I've noticed in using bubbletotes is that when the plant displays a deficiency, my pH is out of range. I'm using well water, adjusted to just below six, and when I'm in that range the plants are happy. When the plants start showing any problems, the pH has always been either too high or too low. It's like everything they need is there in the Lucas formula, but when the pH is wrong the plants can't get it.

 

yup, see above

 

great post !!

[Grow Thread]

What do you guys have to say or add to this general guideline?

 

A general guideline for

TDS levels is as follows:

seedlings = 50-150 ppm; unrooted clones = 100-350 ppm; small plants =

400-800 ppm; large plants =

900-1800 ppm; last week of flowering = taper off to plain water. These

numbers are just a guideline, and

many factors can change the actual level the plants will need. Certain

nutrients are "invisible" to TDS

meters, especially organics, so use TDS level only as an estimate of actual

nutrient levels.

 

PH - The pH of water after adding any nutrients should be around 5.9-6.5

(in rock wool, 5.5-6.1) .

Generally speaking, the micro-nutrients (Fe, Zn, Mn, Cu) get locked out at

a high pH (alkaline) above

7.0, while the major nutrients (N, P, K, Mg) can be less available in

acidic soil or water (below 5.0). Tap

water is often too alkaline.

 

 

 

i try to let my ph sway from about 5.2-6.2

 

once it gets above 6 i make a plan of action

 

Week 5, You think she's a pounder?

 

what strain??

[engineered_excellence]

 

when growing like this, ppm and ph "can" get screwed up simply because we are growing them so fast through veg. the amounts of different nutrients that the plant is taking from the water, added to any temp changes in that water can change things up pretty quickly.

 

first, i would flush them for 24 hours, and then resume normal nutes for a few days before putting them in flower. thats just me, but i like to have 100% happy, healthy, and dialed in/squared away plants before introducing flower.

 

because of the rate that your stain is taking/leaving certain nutes it may be necessary for you to dump/refill more often, or add a couple ml of cal-mag to your lucas nutes to aid in keeping things proper.

 

i know that people get wrapped up the cost of nutrients and wasting them ..... and people even trying to reuse them ..... but with the lucas there is really no need to be frugal about it ..... its soooooooo cheap as it is ....

 

so yeah .... dump/refill more often or add 2-3ml/gal and see what you see. you wont need to do a full 24hr flush every time ..... just a dump and refill with clean water and nutes every 10 days or so and then do your normal 24hr flushes when needed.

 

 

 

yup, see above

 

great post !!

 

Thanks. I started flushing yesterday, they look a little better I think. I went and got a new ph meter and some cal-mag. When I checked the ph of the res, it was at 6.2, so it wasn't too out of whack. I guess I will need to change more often.

[Bisharoo]

OK, water was at 8.4 PH and 110 PPM, now the water sat for a day. I added 2 net pots with hydroton clay pebbles that I rinsed off pretty good first, then added rockwool and a popped seed in each. So, 2 net pots with rock wool and hydroton and seeds.

Now the PH is 8.1 and the PPM is 210. Is this normal? Do I just add PH down to get to around 6?

Thanks.

[Royal Smoke]

Yup. That ph is too high. I like mine around 5.6 - 6.2 or so. I think you can use up to 7 ph for seedlings or cloning, but over that is too high.

 

I use ph down, but others may recommend something you have around the house maybe.

Edited April 10, 2011 by Royal Smoke

[Bisharoo]

Probably doesn't matter at this point, they are not taking nutrients yet? Or do they? I would like to know tonight if anyone is interested in typing out the answer for my newbie question I would appreciate it, thank you.

[Bisharoo]

Is there a formula for adding PH down or do you just add a bit and keep checking it?