I Believe The State Can No Longer Require The Id Card

[peanutbutter]

OH and please note my disclosure in the very first sentence.

[peanutbutter]

You do understand that the medical marijuana program isn't the only state run program where the money collected doesn't stay in the program? It's because of the state constitution. You have to ammend it to get change, like the DNR did years ago.

 

You feel the program should no longer exist? You really ought to rethink that. It's a very selfish place to stand. The card is the only thing that makes it so patients don't have to get an attorney and spend thousands upon thousands of dollars to prove they qualify as a patient.

 

Without these facts you sound like a patient advocate. With all the facts in place you sound like a humble patient's worst nightmare. Always look at things from a patients point of view, one that can't afford to be in court for years.

 

Gettin a little sour there.

 

I think I understand there is more than one program in the state. Did you really think I didn't? You didn't believe the statement within the question you asked. Might as well have said some like "Hey stupid .. "

 

The logistics involved requires that the funds be deposited in the general fund. Then spent from the general fund. Is that what you were trying to tell me?

 

If so, I agree.

 

Is there a funding problem for the program? Is there enough people to get the cards out on time? If not, the money being kept is NOT an excess.

 

Did the AG aid in the destruction of the confidential section of the program? Or did he act to protect the patients of Michigan?

[peanutbutter]

This is a very interesting debate. The state is on the edge of making the card a dangerous thing to own. If lists are published. Roadblocks thrown in the way. Health information disclosed(I have heard it is being disclosed now), then the card offers diminishing returns. I think all of us want to comply with the letter and intent of the law. Our problem is the government is defying the law. In Oakland County the defense can't be raised(Section 4 or Section 8). This is a terrible thing for really sick people. Just the stress of trying to get this law implemented has placed a terrible toll on our brothers and sisters. That is why I asked the government to implement the law. Let's end this debate, by the government following the mandate of the people. It's simple. Everybody gets what they want. Nobody goes to jail. Thanks, Bb

 

We've been waiting for three years now.

 

We must be legal instantly. It's their turn.

Edited November 10, 2011 by peanutbutter

[cristinew]

I understand all state programs dont take 6 months to get a card. just the MMMP only, food stamp card 2 weeks drivers linsnce 2 weeks medicad card 2 weeks ect, i think they are putting us in danger,,

 

Restorium2, on 10 November 2011 - 12:37 PM, said:

Getting pretty far out there aren't you?

 

Do you understand that this is how all the state programs work and have been that way for a long, long time?

Edited November 10, 2011 by cristinew

[The Digital Nomad]

Far out perhaps.

 

After 21 days your paperwork is your 'card', until the plastic comes in. Keep it organized.

 

DN

[peanutbutter]

Sour? Sorry. I was trying to get you to agree with something you couldn't argue with is all. I don't think you are stupid.

 

Just so that I understand.

 

If we voted in a referendum that said "we the people will fund a bridge. These are the fees that we will spend for that project and how they will be collected."

 

The state then has the right to keep any money collected, because of the new fees, that it wishes to. And isn't required to spend the fees collected on the bridge.

 

Is that about right?

[The Digital Nomad]

So clubs, CGs and P2P should forget about asking for cards or paperwork? No.

 

You can have your reasons not to get a card, but places like clubs and people will still use the card or paperwork after 21 days.

 

Some ideas you suggest might require a court battle, and most new patients and CGs wanting to learn on this site do not want a court battle. Cards and paperwork still work in most areas. The fact Judge Foster in the Mt Clemen's hearing said that LEO cannot lie to doctors and state applications like they do for fake cards. I say we continue checking cards, and continue working to make it illegal for LEO to use fake patient cards to 'investigate' or conduction criminal stings.

 

DN

[Kevin]

Kevin,

Just keep in mind some of us patients depend heavily on our cards. Please respect us. We don't want to quit getting our cards. In fact, we believe there is strength in numbers and we would like to have many, many more patients with cards in Michigan. You have a right to want to kill the program, but remember, cause no harm to patients as you do it.

 

Harm what? Kill what? I'm a patient since Feb 09 and no one has more respect for patients or the law than I do. No one said anything about killing or harming anything bro. Dunno where ya got that from. Just saying the state does not deserve our hard earned money for a plastic card that many LEO still will not even recognize, they siphon funds instead of using it for the program, and have yet to add a single new qualifying condition as they are bound by law to do.

 

Also saying the card does not make you legal, the doc's rec does. Plenty of people with a card have been busted. The state ruined the program, not us and to keep sending them money for a card that doesn't always protect a patient while they trash the program like they have been just doesn't make much sense. LARA is not MDCH.

 

The AG and Gov'nor can't be trusted to protect us patients or our rights. Soon it won't matter much anyway. Legalization isn't far away. Nov 2012.

 

 

 

 

 

Peace.

[maxmax]

Just so people know If Mdch or Lara drops the ball and does not send a card.After 20 days Your paper work is Your card.

sure you are maybe in are minds we are but not in the courts eyes

[JustanOldALJ]

Snyder was granted the authority to shift the MMMP to LARA from a higher power:

 

Article V, Section 2, Michigan Constitution, 1963:

 

"All executive and administrative offices, agencies and instrumentalities of the executive branch of state government and their respective functions, powers and duties, except for the office of governor and lieutenant governor and the governing bodies of institutions of higher education provided for in this constitution, shall be allocated by law among and within not more than 20 principal departments. They shall be grouped as far as practicable according to major purposes.

 

Subsequent to the initial allocation, the governor may make changes in the organization of the executive branch or in the assignment of functions among its units which he considers necessary for efficient administration. Where these changes require the force of law, they shall be set forth in executive orders and submitted to the legislature. Thereafter the legislature shall have 60 calendar days of a regular session, or a full regular session if of shorter duration, to disapprove each executive order. Unless disapproved in both houses by a resolution concurred in by a majority of the members elected to and serving in each house, each order shall become effective at a date thereafter to be designated by the governor."

 

 

The above aside, there are over 118,000 registered patients now, and very few of them received their cards on time as required by law. The State of Michigan still is the leader MMMA violations.

[peanutbutter]

Snyder was granted the authority to shift the MMMP to LARA from a higher power:

 

Article V, Section 2, Michigan Constitution, 1963:

 

"All executive and administrative offices, agencies and instrumentalities of the executive branch of state government and their respective functions, powers and duties, except for the office of governor and lieutenant governor and the governing bodies of institutions of higher education provided for in this constitution, shall be allocated by law among and within not more than 20 principal departments. They shall be grouped as far as practicable according to major purposes.

 

Subsequent to the initial allocation, the governor may make changes in the organization of the executive branch or in the assignment of functions among its units which he considers necessary for efficient administration. Where these changes require the force of law, they shall be set forth in executive orders and submitted to the legislature. Thereafter the legislature shall have 60 calendar days of a regular session, or a full regular session if of shorter duration, to disapprove each executive order. Unless disapproved in both houses by a resolution concurred in by a majority of the members elected to and serving in each house, each order shall become effective at a date thereafter to be designated by the governor."

 

 

The above aside, there are over 118,000 registered patients now, and very few of them received their cards on time as required by law. The State of Michigan still is the leader MMMA violations.

 

Thanks .. maybe I was to quick to drop the governor from the paper ..

 

Interesting phrase "Where these changes require the force of law,"

 

So the governor doesn't have a blank check.

 

Does this mean that if a law establishes the arrangement, then a vote is needed?

 

Lets see .. force of law.

 

Our law says MDCH. Our law requires a 75% vote to change anything in it. I'm guessing that is something called "force of law."

[pic book]

Face it, dude, we are back in the 70's; it's all black market and what the black card signifies is that u have registered and advertised your grow's whereabouts to the raiders. LOL. Can you really in good conscience advocate renewing that black card?

Edited November 11, 2011 by pic book

[peanutbutter]

Seriously, what is the point of this? You don't like LARA? You think they are bad, worse than MDCH? Trying to get where you are coming from here.

 

The confidentiality section of the law .. who does it apply to now?

 

Does the impact of that section of the law now apply to LARA? Is any mention of MDCH now null and void?

 

That is a force of law, I believe. Those places that say people are supposed to go to jail about these records. Even government officials.

 

This changes the location that this force of law applies to.

 

If the order was illegal, then there is no longer any lawful place to file an application.

[peanutbutter]

Our records are no longer protected.

 

That was a force of law that was done away with.

[MichiganLawyer]

What's this nonsense about self incrimination? How is anyone giving up their 5th amendment rights by obtaining a card????

[peanutbutter]

What's this nonsense about self incrimination? How is anyone giving up their 5th amendment rights by obtaining a card????

 

If there is anything at all that can be used in court that is contained within those records, they are potential self-incrimination documents.

 

If there isn't anything that could incriminate someone, then there is no way the information could be released.

 

The potential of the records being evidence is the basis for which a subpena would be issued.

 

When a federal judge decided that the files might contain evidence of a crime, every statement within that file might be used against a patient in a court of law.

 

To obtain the ID card requires a signed statement that might be used in court against the applicant.

[peanutbutter]

What's this nonsense about self incrimination? How is anyone giving up their 5th amendment rights by obtaining a card????

 

BTW thank you very much for posting.

 

See, I've found the actions of the state so reprehensible, I've decided to kill the cash cow.

[MichiganLawyer]

If there is anything at all that can be used in court that is contained within those records, they are potential self-incrimination documents.

 

If there isn't anything that could incriminate someone, then there is no way the information could be released.

 

The potential of the records being evidence is the basis for which a subpena would be issued.

 

When a federal judge decided that the files might contain evidence of a crime, every statement within that file might be used against a patient in a court of law.

 

To obtain the ID card requires a signed statement that might be used in court against the applicant.

Nothing in the application process is incriminating. I don't know what you are talking about. Unless, of course, you submitted fraudulent documents, in which case that's a horse of a different color and doesn't deserve protection.

[peanutbutter]

Nothing in the application process is incriminating. I don't know what you are talking about. Unless, of course, you submitted fraudulent documents, in which case that's a horse of a different color and doesn't deserve protection.

 

If there is nothing incriminating, how could it be subpenaed? In what way could such a document be used in an investigation of a crime if the documents would show nothing of that nature?

[Kevin]

This is the comment I was addressing Kevin.

 

Kevin; "The solution is easy. Just stop buying the card. They'll eventually get the message. The doc's rec makes you legal not a stinking plastic card. "

 

Some patients need the protection from having to go to court. That's why we need the card.

 

I agree with that. It would be great though if the card worked the same for everyone and all cardholders were afforded its protections, but sadly that is not the case. The MMMA law should not be open to interpretation by any LEO or PA, or the AG or the Gov.

 

Shame on the lawmakers who are lawbreakers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Peace.

[TheBeagle]

Jump the gun? On the contrary. It's why I started one of the first MMMA Compassion Clubs in the State of Michigan to get as many patients with cards as I could. The more of us the better for all of us. It was especially important in the beginning, and it's still one of the most important things for us now. Strength in numbers.

 

Trust me i want to get my card Medical cannabis is the only thing that work with my back issues I'v tried the other garbage,but im not gonna run out and get my card ,then have LEO come knockin at my door, I will not get my card until new laws are complete and i know for sure I will be protected,as of now from what i read the protection does not exist, Im still gettin educated for my career, the way the laws are now If i get my card now,,there goes all my hard work in college cause future employers can see i have a med card....weather or not some say they can't I believe they can. I'm not gonna risk my future career over a cannabis card. also if RP gets elected president....most likely it will be legal as long as he does what he says. I fully support the MMMA and always will weather or not i have a card or not, I don't think of what's going on now I think about my future I'm only 27 I an honestly say within my lifetime it will be legal,if not then at least the laws will be clear in the future.

[Croppled1]

If there is nothing incriminating, how could it be subpenaed? In what way could such a document be used in an investigation of a crime if the documents would show nothing of that nature?

 

Absolutely it shows intent to violate Federal Law and possible relationships involving conspiracy . The strain on all medical participants is superhuman and the learning curve steep now in Michigan . I live in fear of the 2012 referendum that will state only terminal patients have access in effect killing many with severe chronic pain and eliminating a tool proved to have success in helping some whom were destined to lifelong addiction wean , or eliminate FDA meds as well as tolerate them where they couldn't without . The truth is the old school money from the west side of the state and moral Christian argument is based on the distrust by the West of Eastern and African medicine with thousands of years of historical reference .

 

It opens a can of worms but if his objection is profiteering why not set price controls rather then hurt patients ? I am not advocating for them but why arrest or put patients in jeopardy without ever holding symposiums to educate them as to what is expected and printing state leaflets with the same information . The law was suppose to prevent arrest not be a tool to bring attention to and enable it . He is having a very profound effect on communities around the state these nuisance laws smack of fascism and can be used and abused against individuals whom are different . Differences with tolerance of others is a large portion what truly makes our Country strong , progressive and able to withstand challenges .

Edited November 11, 2011 by Croppled1

[peanutbutter]

Absolutely it shows intent to violate Federal Law and possible relationships involving conspiracy . The strain on all medical participants is superhuman and the learning curve steep now in Michigan . I live in fear of the 2012 referendum that will state only terminal patients have access in effect killing many with severe chronic pain and eliminating a tool proved to have success in helping some whom were destined to lifelong addiction wean , or eliminate FDA meds as well as tolerate them where they couldn't without . The truth is the old school money from the west side of the state and moral Christian argument is based on the distrust by the West of Eastern and African medicine with thousands of years of historical reference .

 

It opens a can of worms but if his objection is profiteering why not set price controls rather then hurt patients ? I am not advocating for them but why arrest or put patients in jeopardy without ever holding symposiums to educate them as to what is expected and printing state leaflets with the same information . The law was suppose to prevent arrest not be a tool to bring attention to and enable it .

 

What I'm saying is that all patients should have every iota of protection of this law WITHOUT the ID card.

 

Both the protections of section four and section 8.

 

With a simple doctors letter.

 

The state won't issue cards right.

The state won't do hearings for new conditions.

 

Provide full protection for everyone with a letter.

 

GET THE STATE COMPLETELY OUT OF THE PICTURE.

 

After three years, the state has proven it can't be trusted with the job required by the voters.

 

Even the simplest task of twenty days.

[peanutbutter]

So what's the field of battle?

 

Civil Courts?

Criminal courts?

Politics?

 

That word .. stealing .. from sick people.

 

Plays right for the media. I think they will have a lot of fun with it.

[TheBeagle]

So what's the field of battle?

 

Civil Courts?

Criminal courts?

Politics?

 

That word .. stealing .. from sick people.

 

Plays right for the media. I think they will have a lot of fun with it.

 

all thee above