I Believe The State Can No Longer Require The Id Card

[peanutbutter]

all thee above

 

Four, that were listed.

 

Media being the forth.

[mibrains]

the state is Not in violation for not issuing the cards.

 

LEO is the problem here.

 

the law CLEARLY states

 

your paperwork is your card until your card arrives.

 

how can they be in violation of not issuing your card, when your paperwork is your card?

 

teach the police if you must.

 

ignorance of the law is no excuse.

 

to not apply for a card is a personal choice. however

this law is nothing more than a legal defense that would speak to any cannabis charge. every level of this law you are compliant with makes this defense a more applicable and secure way to keep yourself from being prosecuted. some counties are limiting, or not allowing the act to serve as a defense in part or any capacty.

contrary to popular belief

this law does not make it legal to use cannabis as medicine.

this law only provides you a legal defense to assert . it does not yet negate the illegal nature of the plant.

 

soon enough our state MUST adhere to the popular vote and determine the scheduling of cannabis as improper at schedule 1, and remove it from that list.

then and only then all protections will be afforded for patients being persecuted from overzealous law enforcement.

 

in the mean time

 

BE CAREFUL

stay smart

 

get legal, stay legal, be legal...

 

two wrongs don't make a right... be better right then them an we will all win......

 

peace.

[Hempcheff]

The state issues cards in the allotted time, check the cards the issue date is printed there. Delivering the issued cards seems to be the trouble spot for them. I wonder how long the cop waited for his card

[peanutbutter]

the state is Not in violation for not issuing the cards.

 

I'm not sure how someone could believe that.

 

I know that you went on to explain your stance.

 

The section about the paperwork starts out "If the department fails"

 

This gives us protections even if the state refuses to issue cards at all.

 

There is a direct command to the department to perform within the law. Failure to comply is a violation of those direct commands.

[peanutbutter]

One very important thing that has been defined is that you must see a doctor and have had them say that your qualifying condition could be helped by cannabis BEFORE you are caught/discovered to be in possession.

 

These basics need to be kept clear and not muddied by confusion.

 

And that was our loss.

 

Many people have conditions that would qualify. Yet they fear being abused by the system.

 

The condition doesn't come into being when the doctor signs the letter.

 

Hopefully that will be corrected in the future.

 

But please note .. that was a battle that we lost at lower levels. And is likely to remain a loss for a long time.

[peanutbutter]

The state issues cards in the allotted time, check the cards the issue date is printed there. Delivering the issued cards seems to be the trouble spot for them. I wonder how long the cop waited for his card

 

I don't think so. They just back date to make themselves look good.

[mibrains]

I'm not sure how someone could believe that.

 

I know that you went on to explain your stance.

 

The section about the paperwork starts out "If the department fails"

 

This gives us protections even if the state refuses to issue cards at all.

 

There is a direct command to the department to perform within the law. Failure to comply is a violation of those direct commands.

 

true.....and therefore does this not imply there is no motivation to preform when they (the issuing department) become compliant even if they don't issue within 20 days.. no matter how long it takes after that...

i want for myself every possible angle to help protect myself.

i carry my card, and still carry a photocopy of my paperwork in my vehicle.

i carry all my caregiver cards and a copy of their paperwork.

these are my rules (amongst many others) and i follow them to protect myself.

 

every patient needs to have a standard of performance to insure their individual security and safty. IE if you are in a hostile area.. u need many more and complex protections then if u are in a friendly area. protect yourself based on where u are, or plan on going. dont go to downtown city and expect the same safety necessities as are needed in a township out in the boonies....

 

every area is different.

 

over protection on this case to me is always preferential to under preparedness...

 

i have been stopped 4 times now this year.. apparently i look the part... however in each of the stops i have remained calm and compliant and not once had any issues.

[jjbigs]

Restructuring the MDCH saves the state money. No sense in bashing the right person for the wrong thing. You build better credibility by being real and understanding the issue. There are enough things Snyder does wrong. We don't need to make a big negative deal out of something that actually helps the state.

can you show us some kind of proof the money is going to the schools! it would be nice if you could back that up! and not with anything the government is saying! show me some solid proof this is happening,,,im with p.b on the get your rec and pp on the state!

[jjbigs]

and this is why i didn't jump the gun to get my card... glad i still haven't gotten it

so you post on here and ask about a low budget first time grow and your not a pt? do you at least have your rec?

 

wow what kind of site did i join? you are an admin here correct? and you are advocating illegal grows?

[mibrains]

so you post on here and ask about a low budget first time grow and your not a pt? do you at least have your rec?

 

wow what kind of site did i join? you are an admin here correct? and you are advocating illegal grows?

i just thought i would chime in here as a mod.

 

beagle is not a admin.

 

and many many people come here to learn everything they can before they begin. it is NOT REQUIRED to be a patient or caregiver to participate in the forums and gather knowledge...

 

thanks

 

John

[peanutbutter]

true.....and therefore does this not imply there is no motivation to preform when they (the issuing department) become compliant even if they don't issue within 20 days.. no matter how long it takes after that...

i want for myself every possible angle to help protect myself.

i carry my card, and still carry a photocopy of my paperwork in my vehicle.

i carry all my caregiver cards and a copy of their paperwork.

these are my rules (amongst many others) and i follow them to protect myself.

 

every patient needs to have a standard of performance to insure their individual security and safty. IE if you are in a hostile area.. u need many more and complex protections then if u are in a friendly area. protect yourself based on where u are, or plan on going. dont go to downtown city and expect the same safety necessities as are needed in a township out in the boonies....

 

every area is different.

 

over protection on this case to me is always preferential to under preparedness...

 

i have been stopped 4 times now this year.. apparently i look the part... however in each of the stops i have remained calm and compliant and not once had any issues.

 

Yeah .. we have safeguards if they fail to comply with the law.

 

It doesn't give the state permission to fail to comply just because we have safeguards.

[peanutbutter]

Respectfully, it is easy to see if you know that schools are funded from where our money went. The general fund is where it went and that funds all social programs that are not federally funded. It is very basic and not hard to prove.

 

It is better, in my opinion, to point this out to the average Joe on the street, than to argue the point that we are helping our fellow Michiganders to the tune of millions of dollars. It's all about hearts and minds in the fight.

 

Again .. the rape victim should enjoy it.

[peanutbutter]

We have been raped with the best of intentions ..

[cristinew]

the money goes to Bill Sheutte how nice

[+ProPlayer420]

We need to get the two of you a platform and have you debate having or not having a card. I do believe both of you could agree that the state has not done right by our law period.

 

Whether you have a card or not people are getting arrested or meds seized. It all depends on which local enforcement stops you, how you are treated with your card.

 

For some things have not changed for others have found safety in having their cards on hand when stopped by the leo. Then you have the complete opposite with other leo. So does having a card help your chances with leo I say yes. Without it you are more likely to get screwed over worse especially if you weren't following the law word for word. So for $25 or $100 bucks I'll keep my medical marijuana card on hand for now.

 

But I do appreciate how both of you are passionate about our medical marijuana law but I don't think either of you will win in the end with this debate. Its all in ones own comfort. But it is PB's forum post and he can express his views any way he likes.

 

For now I'll just keep my focus on being a pest to my legislators and our local authorities. And keeping our local compassion club abrupt to whats going on around them and building our membership. Safety in numbers is the truth.

 

Good luck and be safe my friends!

[Frank R]

LEO=The State

 

The State is LEO

 

Conspiracy

Collusion

Cronyism

 

Michigan is controlled by elite interests who have no intention of following pesky laws.

Time and time again our elite, privileged leaders have proven the laws do not apply to them.

 

What's a free man to do?

[cristinew]

and there is just as long of a list of people who had cards that are in trouble,

[Bisharoo]

The state issues cards in the allotted time, check the cards the issue date is printed there. Delivering the issued cards seems to be the trouble spot for them. I wonder how long the cop waited for his card

If anyone would care or listen, which they won't, but we could insist that real, genuine patients receive their cards at least as fast as those fake folks got their fake ones. We know they didn't wait 7 months for a stinking card.

[peanutbutter]

So .. it seems that BS and I agree on one thing.

 

The state ID card program should be shut down.

[Bisharoo]

OK, here is my problem with our card system. Suppose you are a patient with a caregiver, but you decide to start growing for yourself. So, you send in the paperwork that says you may now possess plants. The state cashes your check, and you need to start growing so because you are going to be out of meds with no caregiver and no finished medicine yet for a few months. But, you are waiting for the card so you are protected(?) somehow, but because you don't have the card you are not yet protected, so you can't grow or get medicine until the state releases your card and sends it to you, if they ever do. You are nervous all the while, not having a card for protection(?), so should you go back underground, or just die and give up?

So, how many months do we wait without anything unless we go back on pills, which is what they want to begin with.

And since after 7 months waiting for a card, you think you should renew 6 months early or so? So should you send your renewal before you get you card from the past year?

This card system is not worth the money or time if the state won't do what they are paid to do from our fees which is to issue our cards within 20 days, and until our protectors decide that we are the ones who are supposed to be protected, not attacked, this card system is pathetic at best and evil to the core the way our benevolent leaders are using it.

[peanutbutter]

OK, here is my problem with our card system. Suppose you are a patient with a caregiver, but you decide to start growing for yourself. So, you send in the paperwork that says you may now possess plants. The state cashes your check, and you need to start growing so because you are going to be out of meds with no caregiver and no finished medicine yet for a few months. But, you are waiting for the card so you are protected(?) somehow, but because you don't have the card you are not yet protected, so you can't grow or get medicine until the state releases your card and sends it to you, if they ever do. You are nervous all the while, not having a card for protection(?), so should you go back underground, or just die and give up?

So, how many months do we wait without anything unless we go back on pills, which is what they want to begin with.

And since after 7 months waiting for a card, you think you should renew 6 months early or so? So should you send your renewal before you get you card from the past year?

This card system is not worth the money or time if the state won't do what they are paid to do from our fees which is to issue our cards within 20 days, and until our protectors decide that we are the ones who are supposed to be protected, not attacked, this card system is pathetic at best and evil to the core the way our benevolent leaders are using it.

 

Make a copy of your card that shows your ID number. Don't copy the back. Blank out the "no" about plants.

 

The system should have your proper information. Leo calls to confirm that your card is good and you don't have a caregiver.

 

The problem is that they cashed your check for the change. They probably made the change in the file at the same time they cashed your check.

The problem is "probably." If they don't update the file at the same time as cashing the check, then the old incorrect information exists in the file about you.

 

According to a state police memo, just being able to present your ID number enables leo to call and confirm your status.

 

That may have changed. IOW there may be new information I'm not aware of.

 

I've thought about having my number tattooed on my body. Along with the phone number of a lawyer.

Edited November 11, 2011 by peanutbutter

[peanutbutter]

I believe the only way an officer would even considering checking your card number is if you present an authentic card. We need to be very careful about giving dangerous advice.

 

Thank you for the additional disclaimers.

 

If an officer refuses to follow instructions from their superiors, then we have a problem.

[cristinew]

Logic tells you that because not everyone is helped by their card that none of us should be helped? The guy at the casino should be in federal prison right now because other patients with cards have been harmed?

 

i said nothing about the guy in the casino, where do you get that from, all i said people with cards still wind up in trouble, period.

[revsmoke]

In Oakland County the defense can't be raised(Section 4 or Section 8).

 

Could you elaborate on this, please?

[Croppled1]

OK, here is my problem with our card system. Suppose you are a patient with a caregiver, but you decide to start growing for yourself. So, you send in the paperwork that says you may now possess plants. The state cashes your check, and you need to start growing so because you are going to be out of meds with no caregiver and no finished medicine yet for a few months. But, you are waiting for the card so you are protected(?) somehow, but because you don't have the card you are not yet protected, so you can't grow or get medicine until the state releases your card and sends it to you, if they ever do. You are nervous all the while, not having a card for protection(?), so should you go back underground, or just die and give up?

So, how many months do we wait without anything unless we go back on pills, which is what they want to begin with.

And since after 7 months waiting for a card, you think you should renew 6 months early or so? So should you send your renewal before you get you card from the past year?

This card system is not worth the money or time if the state won't do what they are paid to do from our fees which is to issue our cards within 20 days, and until our protectors decide that we are the ones who are supposed to be protected, not attacked, this card system is pathetic at best and evil to the core the way our benevolent leaders are using it.

 

I am sad to hear so many seeing the availability of medical cannabis as a reason to not follow other medical paths like FDA medication through adjunctive care . Cannabis helps with my stomach and nausea issues but I still take prilosec and find it beneficial . For me this is complimentary medicine or adjunctive care and it is very dangerous to patient rights when people in our movement appear to present that even we support the fear that permeates the either or theory of use . We have very little understanding of the effects of medication but I have been fortunate to be working with people whom understand that they effect hormonal balance in the body which is a important factor in side effects , severe dependency , and terrible withdrawal profiles . obviously all is touch and go and in the case of some medications like opiates there are also receptor issues which are attempted to be addressed with drug rotations . For progress to take place brave patients must participate and Doctors must record . It is a shame the process is so interrupted by fear and the clouding of a medical issue with criminality where the real perpetrator of any grievances is mans inability to yet comprehend the situation and punishment does not fit the manufactured crime . The true criminal is disease , injury and death .

 

Hope your doing well the hormonal effects of what you take will be very important to your situation . I myself supplement testosterone though for you I would think that lowering it may be a better choice and is what may very well be recommended . In my experience opiates create a condition where the body releases more testosterone and adrenalin then it can produce causing the suffering we all attach to it . Vitamin D seems to come up short in most people too and those with thyroid conditions must be extremely wary . Bowel sluggishness creates toxicity and tolerance . Addressing these issues and using cannabis to smooth over side effects of medications can create better experiences for those whom have severe chronic pain without other alternatives . Everyone should be able to access any tools in medicine they find brings them comfort just as they should be free to deny any treatment without consequence .

 

That said using as few medications as possible seems superior to using more when possible . Just as having a card or another tool to build protection from unjust law is wise as long as one does not fear added limitation and attention due to it .

Edited November 11, 2011 by Croppled1