Is This The End? Caregivers Giving Up Inmass

[DLD420]

I have asked this question a couple of times about Bill 4851, again here it is. The Feds say Doctors can't use a schedule 3 drug as a treatment, but the bill says the Doctor has to keep a record of the use of MM As a treatment. In my mind that opens the door for the Feds to stop Doctors from even signing for a patient. I know if I was a Doctor I wouldn't put myself or my practice on the line with the way the Feds are about MM. If this is part of BS's agenda to stop MM in Michigan I believe it will work. No gatekeeper if the Doctors are afraid to sign your papers. JMHO

Edited May 6, 2012 by DLD420

[+Malamute]

As a matter of fact, they changed it right after Michigans law.

 

Go figure aye?

 

Arizona

 

D. Operating, navigating or being in actual physical control of any motor vehicle, aircraft or motorboat while under the influence of marijuana, except that a registered qualifying patient shall not be considered to be under the influence of marijuana solely because of the presence of metabolites or components of marijuana that appear in insufficient concentration to cause impairment.

 

I believe they have revised it from that a little bit now too. I would have to look that up. :-)

Edited May 6, 2012 by Malamute

[+Malamute]

Well, make sure to get your patients a new caregiver. I know there are plenty that are more than willing to help the people you won't.

[Tomato]

I guess I walked in to this with my eyes wide shut. I wasn't aware of all the difficulties surrounding the pt/cg issue. I have paid attention to the dispensary issue and that is why I chose to posses plants. I know I need to become more active as a community member and speak out for those who can't provide for themselves. I guess I do need to get political. I hate politics.

[+Malamute]

So, from here, to regain the intended protections for unimpaired driving with small amounts of active THC in one's system, we will have to either change our law, or change the public health code, or both.

 

We should start compiling a list of changes we need and figure out how to get them.

 

I would LOVE to see us only have to change the PHC. O my yes. I have almost zero faith in our elected government to make it so unfortunately. We need to knock out about 30+ Republicans in the House, 15 in the Senate, and the Governor to make that happen though.

[+Malamute]

So, from here, to regain the intended protections for unimpaired driving with small amounts of active THC in one's system, we will have to either change our law, or change the public health code, or both.

 

We should start compiling a list of changes we need and figure out how to get them.

 

I already have one written. :-)

 

 

Now i just need a million bucks.... hmmm...

Edited May 6, 2012 by Malamute

[Dr. Bob]

Guys,

 

Take a deep breath.

 

I am going to actually write something on this subject this week, all the bills, and present it in Clare after my clinic on Wed.

 

We get no where by panicking or talking about the will of the people and the unfairness of it all. The will of the people was to have a MMMA, and the will of the people was for the legislature to be able to change it with 75%, which they did. Now we have to look at what problems were solved to our benefit, what ones are challenging us, and how we are going to respond.

 

Here are a couple of really good things we have now as I see it....

 

2 year cards

outdoor grows

state is REQUIRED to seat the committee on new conditions and given deadlines to do so

state is REQUIRED to hire private industry to EFFICIENTLY get cards out in a timely manner

doctors know what is expected of them which will encourage participation in the program, hopefully phasing out the 'need' for certification clinics

raids against legitimate patients will decrease (not all reports of 'grows' will get warrants because there are legal patients and caregivers involved)

 

In many other cases 'grey areas' are cleared up for the cops and we as the community know specific clear cut guidelines to guide our actions. Recall that I've always maintained the registry connect caregiver-patient relationship was CLEARLY safe, now we have other things that are also specifically safe and equally clear cut- like outdoor grows.

 

I am not saying I am happy about them opening the law under the rules outlined by the Act (the 75% supermajority). I am not saying we will not have to change some things. I am saying we got more guidelines on 'safety zones' and if we follow them, we will have a larger measure of safety.

 

Finally, why did they get the 75%? There is a law in Alaska that makes it illegal to toss a moose out of an aircraft. Why? Who would even think of such a law? It was in response to someone doing it. And there wasn't a way to stop them from doing it again unless they made the law.

 

There are perceptions in Lansing and the non-mmj community that things were not being done right. I am doing a study to counter the perception that all patients are 18 year olds with stubbed toes (my average patient is 51 years old). We are seeing 'certification clinic event' coordinators going to court to have the certification documents declared NOT to be medical records for their marketing and bottom line needs, rather than the needs of the community. We have certifications done without medical records to back them ('I hurt....' ok here is your card) or through the mail with no physician contact. We have folks making all sorts of excuses to commercially grow marijuana for sale based on 'their opion' of the law.

 

In short, a few cowboys pushed the envelope and Lansing reacted badly. Fortunately, there were some cooler heads there and the community came together to oppose the rather draconian measures the likes of Schuette were suggesting, and we got a few of them blunted along with some things we wanted. Our goal now is not to complain about the unfairness of it all, but to figure out how to turn it to our advantage and make ourselves safer.

 

Dr. Bob

[Tomato]

I think I'll start riding my bicycle a lot more too.

[+Malamute]

I think I'll start riding my bicycle a lot more too.

 

 

 

Location- Laying on my back, in the nude and open grass...

 

Hopefully not riding it in the nude!!

[Tomato]

Wow! Good words Dr. Bob.

[Restorium2]

The irony is a lot of us use cannabis as a pain killer to get away from the impairment of narcotic pain killers. Cannabis actually impairs you less, but they seem to want to punish us for our choice to be less impaired.

[+Malamute]

Too many republicans vote in the off year elections.

[drtarzanmd]

People should be Concerned

and be very Carefull who they trust ....

 

All it takes is for Someone Not like LongHairBri

 

and wait for him to leave a Rally , a Protest , a Meeting

 

and they call the Police on him and say that they saw

him smoking pot in his car and

that they know he has weed in his Vehicle ....

 

How can you Protect yourself from this ?

 

If i did'nt medicate for two Complete weeks ....

and got Blood tested after that ...

I would still be in the Red ....

Edited May 6, 2012 by drtarzanmd

[Kevin]

Another thing, most LEO had only an elementary understanding of the law before the change. Now they're really in the dark and We the Patients will suffer the more for it.

 

We already had outside grows written in the law. They paid no attention to the law regarding outside grows.

 

We had state requirements to get the cards out on time written in the law, and they paid no attention to getting the cards out on time.

 

We had state requirements to define and add new qualifying conditions written in the law, and they paid no attention to adding new qualifying conditions.

 

So we get 2 yr cards and a they get lot more ways to persecute and prosecute us. What was solved to our benefit?

 

Good one about the moose and the plane and true. Just shows we're a nation of bad laws randomly enforced. For instance, in Arizona, it's illegal to own more than 5 dildos, and in some northern towns, it's illegal to stop a chain saw blade with your genitals. That's just 2 of thousands.

 

Well, it's time to make a pan of brownies. Gonna eat them all too before the Pastry Police try to weigh them.

 

 

 

 

Peace.

[+Malamute]

Right, therefore in order to beat Bill Schuette, we need something good to draw people to the polls.

 

True.

[GanjaWarrior]

Too many republicans vote in the off year elections.

not enough nutts on the dem side to stop a feather from falling. should known better than to support limp penis liberals.

[bobandtorey]

What part of the MMMA makes you believe that?

 

(e) All other acts and parts of acts inconsistent with this act do not apply to the medical use of marihuana as provided for by this act.

[bobandtorey]

This Koon thing,... let us remember to blame the right people... MPP that wrote our law. They knew Michigan was zero tolerance and they didnt adjust their model language properly to protect the patients. Their fault.

 

They screwed up a ton of language. We all know it. If we want it fixed, we will have to do it ourselves. :-)

 

Examples: Driving, Medibles and amount of usable marijuana allowed.

sorry i do not agree with this i think the Law was writen great and that is why the courts are trying to do what they are doing because this Law protects any body that users mmj and has a Doc that can testify to that fact imho

[bobandtorey]

I think people forgot, this law was simply step 1.

 

We are on a journey to the promised land and i am proud to help push the carts there for the next generation. We are the Pioneers of medical marijuana. Now we just have to cross the Mississippi and watch out for the Indians on our way to the promised land.

 

The day the law passed in November of 2008, the first thing i said after results came in was "Yay! Hopey McChange won!" Then i seen the MMj law passed and said, " Now the real fight has started".

 

I just seen things differently(realisticly) i guess.

 

O yea... and i don't like it one fruckn bit either.

 

May 15th at the Capital for a great day of socializing with friends, and friends to be.This is not in the media yet but was announced tonight so might just as well get some things started.

 

Please everyone from every group and organization please step up and come to the Capital in Lansing on May 15th for the biggest rally and to show our employees who the voters are.

If you are not registered to vote please do so and have your voter card with you for any pictures I might get of you. Show them your vote counts.

[bobandtorey]

So, from here, to regain the intended protections for unimpaired driving with small amounts of active THC in one's system, we will have to either change our law, or change the public health code, or both.

 

We should start compiling a list of changes we need and figure out how to get them.

 

no i don't think the Law should be changed it's a great Law we just need more great Lawyers that will stand up and they are coming around now the Koon case should have never been at that court C.O.A

i think some of the Lawyers want to be famous and win a case but are not ready to fight the right way and ask for other Lawyers to help them

[bobandtorey]

I think I'll start riding my bicycle a lot more too.

i think you can be charged for that also and walking

[bobandtorey]

I already have one written. :-)

 

 

Now i just need a million bucks.... hmmm...

 

you have a Law that you can share with us?

[Dr. Bob]

I have asked this question a couple of times about Bill 4851, again here it is. The Feds say Doctors can't use a schedule 3 drug as a treatment, but the bill says the Doctor has to keep a record of the use of MM As a treatment. In my mind that opens the door for the Feds to stop Doctors from even signing for a patient. I know if I was a Doctor I wouldn't put myself or my practice on the line with the way the Feds are about MM. If this is part of BS's agenda to stop MM in Michigan I believe it will work. No gatekeeper if the Doctors are afraid to sign your papers. JMHO

 

I assume you are referring to schedule 1 not schedule 3. Keeping records of a patient does not indicate any violation of federal law. I have had patients on meth and crack in my internal medicine practice, and their use of those substances was noted in the chart. What I was tracking, and continue to track with MMJ patients, is a response to treatment and the basis of my recomendation. That is in no way a violation of law, it is good medicine and it amazes me that doctors would have to be told to do so. But alas some do need to be told. See my earlier analogy to the law forbidding folks from throwing a moose from an aircraft.

 

Dr. Bob

[Dr. Bob]

Again, let's not go down the path of 'it was already in the law, imho'. First, your opinion was not the only one, and the ones that disagree can and did put you in cuffs. Second, there is a new sheriff in town and what was is no more, we have what IS and need to understand it and do it.

 

Dr. Bob

[Herb Cannabis]

I know alot of people here. I'm active in this community (prob too much!!).

 

anyway, quite a few caregivers I know are seeing the changes to the law as the last straw and are going underground. is that the intent of Lansing? make EVERYONE illegal for even the slightest infraction?

 

I can see their point. no more freebies means everything is income. I hear the street prices are quite a bit higher too.

 

I told my friends that the intent in Lansing is to make criminals out of EVERYONE in the program. they WILL find a loophole to charge you with. run your plate to see enrollment then lie and say driving erratically, find a roach in the passenger compartment, or what if your patient suddenly dies (heart attack, drive by shooting, who knows?) and the card in their wallet leads them to your house to inspect? your instantly NOT in compliance and going to jail. how is this any different than not having a card?? their systematically making criminals out of every person that uses MMJ. driving, possessing, transporting....forget growing. no state charges? call the feds!

 

these are scary times. caregivers AND patients are under attack. actually, thats wrong, the battle seems to have been lost. were as good as screwed. ( I used self restraint there, as an admin I could have used the words that REALLY came to mind) this is a turning point. Lansing is about to unleash the growers that were here before, mixed with the newbies who took the lessons to heart and unleash them onto the black market. was that their intent?? make criminals out of law abiding citizens and you get anarchy!

 

I'm even willing to admit that I MAY have grown MMJ before there was a law. geeee, what simple times that was. get pinched driving? jail. so you hid it in the trunk..... get pulled over? deny everything and NEVER admit to smoking. seems now those are the same but NOW they can verify "during the course of their duty" that you are a patient or caregiver, then make up the rest from there. I got long hair, I've been profiled more times than I'd like to count. It's already hard enough, they need to run my plate too??

 

me?, I'll stay in the program as long as I can. move my address to another location and my garden to another. trim off the patients (who truly have a qualifying condition) but don't LOOK sick, offer nothing for free, help no others (free or fee) and hope I can pay my electric bill. what else is there?

 

the alternative? keep patient card, change plant count, sell overages to anyone with no compassion. keep profits for lawyer

 

not me. I've worked too hard, got too much invested and helped too many to quit now.

 

by the way, do mod's get free legal rep?

 

I really want to puke but hate the taste of vomit.

 

we SERIOUSLY need a "champion for the people" to set this right. I just don't see that hero and it sucks.

 

I've seen cannabis cure cancer, extend life for the terminally ill, make life livable again for a (prescribed) pill fiend, let people find 8 full hours sleep when their best average was 4. this medicine is doing great thing for the sick in our state. I see it every day....for real.

 

now it ends unless you got the cash??? sickening

 

 

 

Wonderful post, it says everything I would have liked to say and I feel exactly like you do.

 

I want to say Fk it, but, I can't, to many people benefit from this plant and are counting on me. I won't quit, I will fight to the bitter end!

 

Apply what we have to endure with our law and we can understand the plight of the black and GLTB communities.

 

Why must we hate? Why can't we just accept the fact that we are all different? Why can't we accept people for who they are? If you don't like us, go to hell and leave us alone. More than 3 million people said that we should be able to use this medicine with out fear of prison. Why doesn't our government listen and obey the will of the people? That question was so good, I'm going to ask it again, "WHY DOESN'T OUR GOVERNMENT LISTEN AND OBEY THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE? I hope that they heard me the second time!

 

Boy, it felt good to get that off my chest, thanks long hairs for the opportunity.

 

P.S. I read all your post, you have a great heart (although I sense that it be broken by our repressive government - as is mine) and you are a great warrior. Not a bad writer either, wish I had some of your talent. BTW, I donated nearly 30" of hair to Locks of Love this past February, I lost nearly 5 pounds! My god man, I need less than 10 minutes to shower now (before hair cut it took nearly 30 minutes).

 

OK, I'm rambling, sorry. Thanks again for your post, it has inspired me to create a new post regarding legal representation. I'll get to that now.