What Type Of Access Do Patients Want?

[Restorium2]

If you ordered a ham on rye and you got a crap sandwich would you go back and order more because you think that they just got your order wrong? Or would you wait until they at least changed some of the staff first before you put in another order?

[GregS]

quoted from another forum---

 

 

"The City of Muskegon ........are requiring growers to register as a business. The growers are having to pay a $30 "business license" fee. I don't want my name on some list down at City Hall that any clown can lookup. I am not a business. I grow enough for myself and my patients. I rarely have overages. I get enough in donations to keep the light on, which isn't cheap. I pay the rest. I don't even let my patients know where I live. I deliver. Michigan needs to pull their collective heads out of their asses. It's like being legel but not. Makeup my mind if I'm a criminal. This is all so ridiculous."

 

 

........"we are all in this together here in Michigan. If Burton or Muskegon are passing MMJ ordinances it effects us all. Here in Muskegon it's the same thing with transporting. Either way it's municipalities using passive aggessive tactics to oppose MMJ and make as much money as they can in the process. It's like a cancer that spreads from one city to the next."

 

 

"The ordinances are crazy. It's like getting a state drivers license and the city requiring you to get another license just for their city. They are double dipping ......The city's are going out of their way to make it hard on growers and patients alike."

 

The Muskegon ordinance requiring registration is unenforceable. They can tie people up with bullschit charges and bother, but they cannot arrest, penalize, or prosecute

Edited February 22, 2013 by GregS

[GregS]

I think it imperative that secure private storage facilities be opened in these cities.

[GregS]

We beat them back because they don't have anything to stand on. This bill would give them something they think they can stand on. They used to only be able to give you a ticket, this bill says that the penalties now will be criminal. This bill plays right into the hands of the people we have been fighting tooth and nail that have been zoning people out of their grows. This bill could put Safety Man Dan in your grow room. We don't want to be zoned or inspected. This bill opens the door wide open for that.

 

Who is we?

[OG Fire Beaster]

If you ordered a ham on rye and you got a crap sandwich would you go back and order more because you think that they just got your order wrong? Or would you wait until they at least changed some of the staff first before you put in another order?

 

Depends on how much I liked the place. One time McDonalds gave me a fish fillet(which I hate) when I ordered a McChicken. I still go back.

[roadworkahead]

Rest

 

I am lying for money? You are calling me a liar for money. I am not the Supreme Court. So all I can go off of is what the MMMA states. You want me to prove something that you yourself can not prove.

 

 

SFC

 

Come clean? About what?

 

 

Both

 

It is really sad how afraid you two are of anything outside your bubble.

84,000 returning non-disp using patients? I think not.

 

Why wouldn't they return when they had such options? And before I hear about how they weren't legal, doesn't matter, they were open and a lot of those 84,000 were using them.

why was the statement made by a dispensary stating that without them patients will HAVE to obtain their meds from the black market? This is not true at all. there are caregivers alot of them

[Restorium2]

Keep in mind this legislature had plenty of opportunity to give us any kind of transfers we patients wanted. We begged them for any sort of extra type of transfer imaginable. Nothing. Not an extra anything to make things easier. Always restrictions.

[Restorium2]

Depends on how much I liked the place. One time McDonalds gave me a fish fillet(which I hate) when I ordered a McChicken. I still go back.

I said CRAP sandwich, not fish sandwich.

[GregS]

Here someone with views that are similar to yours on this issue said this.

 

 

 

 

 

Please show me the proof of number 1. Maybe I am completely wrong and not realizing it. Just because a city someplace did something does not mean they are following the act. I do not believe that this language makes every Cg a commercial entity. I do not believe that cities are following the law when they make a regulation that violates the MMMA.

 

Try 4(a) & (b).

[OG Fire Beaster]

Road

 

Because if they or their caregiver do not have the meds then whoever is giving it to them is breaking the law.

Just because that person said that does not make it a statement attributable to all dispensary operators.

It was a fantastic attention grabbing statement that is the norm for media publications.

We live in a world where attention grabbing headlines are more important then fact and reasoning.

[roadworkahead]

So, in actuality, those patients were going to the black market(dispensaries) to get their medicine right?

 

Yet dispensaries call caregivers "black market dealers" that are dangerous for patients. Yet caregivers are the only state legal entity to do such.

 

 

Hmm, classic 101 stuff.

 

So caregivers are actually saving patients from black market drug dealers then..., interesting.

 

Say your opponents are what you are to hide what you are.

The point exactly!

[roadworkahead]

Everything is black market on some level if you want to go that road.

the dispensary owner wanted and took that road

[OG Fire Beaster]

Rest to me a fish fillet is a crap sandwich. I understand your point though. To me this is something important enough to take the risk.

[OG Fire Beaster]

Road

 

Before McQueen it was a legitimate question if some dispensary models were ok. Before that Green made it seem as if P2P was ok. After all of these things happened, transferring outside of your Cg became black market.

[GregS]

I agree that rhetoric is out of control. It is typical for the media. That is how people garner attention to the issue that they are pushing. They attack others and make fantastic statements to get attention. I do not support that.

 

I do not think Cg or Pt growing and transferring are any danger. I simply think there needs to be a way for broader safer access. I do not support the attacks on people following the MMMA guidelines. I think most of the people here know that the media/legislature/LEO love to make grand, false, and inflammatory statements.

 

Then we all must respond to the media with renewed enthusiasm, in opinionated comments to these stories.

Edited February 22, 2013 by GregS

[Restorium2]

Rest to me a fish fillet is a crap sandwich. I understand your point though. To me this is something important enough to take the risk.

We PATIENTS asked these same people for what we wanted and they didn't give us SQUAT. Yet you think just because dispensaries are asking you are going to get something good? You think they like you that much more than PATIENTS? We run this not dispensaries and if they wanted to give PATIENTS something they would have.

[Restorium2]

Road

 

Before McQueen it was a legitimate question if some dispensary models were ok. Before that Green made it seem as if P2P was ok. After all of these things happened, transferring outside of your Cg became black market.

No they were not. Take Prosecutor Leyton for example. He said that if dispensaries were not just a building where caregivers are servicing their patients they are ILLEGAL. Every which way you try to wiggly around this you are wrong. He's the prosecutor in a county that had/has many dispensaries.

[GregS]

We PATIENTS asked these same people for what we wanted and they didn't give us SQUAT. Yet you think just because dispensaries are asking you are going to get something good? You think they like you that much more than PATIENTS? We run this not dispensaries and if they wanted to give PATIENTS something they would have.

 

4271 makes the government money. Municipalities will use the issue as a revenue stream. There is a cash incentive for them to move the bill forward. Caregivers are the competition. It will be only a matter of time until they push cgs out.

Edited February 22, 2013 by GregS

[OG Fire Beaster]

Rest

 

What did the first McQueen trial say? If it wasn't a legitimate question then the SC would have never heard the case.

 

Patients are dispensaries. Just because you cant make that connection in your mind does not change it. Many dispensaries were started by patients. Your view of either/or is wrong.

[GregS]

Rest

 

What did the first McQueen trial say? If it wasn't a legitimate question then the SC would have never heard the case.

 

Patients are dispensaries. Just because you cant make that connection in your mind does not change it. Many dispensaries were started by patients. Your view of either/or is wrong.

 

What!?

[OG Fire Beaster]

4271 makes the government money. Municipalities will use them as a revenue stream. Caregivers are the competition. It will be only a matter of time until they push cgs out.

 

Some may do that. If people boycott a PC in a locality that doesn't allow Cgs to sell overages then it wont be there for long. Then they will change their policy to start collecting revenue on our terms. Make your voice in that community heard with your wallet and feet. If a community has a bad PC system don't go there, they will see their neighboring community taking advantage of their poor choice and will make changes to get money back in their community. This is the same reason business are leaving MI and going to Texas, because Texas is more friendly to them.

[OG Fire Beaster]

No they were not. Take Prosecutor Leyton for example. He said that if dispensaries were not just a building where caregivers are servicing their patients they are ILLEGAL. Every which way you try to wiggly around this you are wrong. He's the prosecutor in a county that had/has many dispensaries.

Rest

 

What did the first McQueen trial say? If it wasn't a legitimate question then the SC would have never heard the case.

 

Patients are dispensaries. Just because you cant make that connection in your mind does not change it. Many dispensaries were started by patients. Your view of either/or is wrong.

 

 

 

When The first ruling in McQueen came down it was that it was protected by the MMMA.

 

EDIT: GregS not sure which part I confused you on.

 

EDIT2: The 2nd line is in reference to this.

 

We PATIENTS asked these same people for what we wanted and they didn't give us SQUAT. Yet you think just because dispensaries are asking you are going to get something good? You think they like you that much more than PATIENTS? We run this not dispensaries and if they wanted to give PATIENTS something they would have.

Edited February 22, 2013 by OG Fire Beaster

[SFC]

OG, I think you are confused about what the first McQueen decision out of the COA said. The SC affirmed the majority of that COA decision. If you are speaking circuit court, it doesn't matter what they said.

 

I am curious OG, how old are you? You seem awful naive in how things actually work.

[+Malamute]

Rest to me a fish fillet is a crap sandwich. I understand your point though. To me this is something important enough to take the risk.

 

I can agree with the McSandwich. ...

 

And, the risk is what is being taken.

 

The questions then go on from there. Do the needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many? And all sorts of interesting avenues and angles.

 

What i can say without hesitation, in the current political and federal DEA envitonment, a home growing caregiver system is the only system that won't crumble under federal enforcement. Dispensaries cannot suffice on their own. Simple to shut down 100 dispensaries. A long weekend maybe. Impossible to shut down 120,000 home growing patients and caregivers. It is the entire reason the caregiver system exists to stifle Federal enforcement. I mean, ask Mainers how their dispnsaries have worked. Or Rhode Island. Jersey. New Mexico. etc.

 

It doesnt work. It is a flawed system when it is illegal federally. We luckily have what would be considered a liberal Administration currently. Put an old drug warrior back in there and we could be seeing dozens and dozens of dispensaries closed weekly. And then these dispensaries don't even take the time to setup their current customers with a caregiver when they do go out of business.

 

I dunno. In this environment, myself,.. dispensaries are a luxury. We should be going after real important stuff that really matters to patients.

 

Access to carregivers or knowledge to grow.

Employment protections

Housing protections

Anti DIscrimination policies(not punishing patients for using mmj and such)

Organ donor protections

Driving protections

Uncompensated transfers allowable

Medibles protections

 

 

I dunno. I would hope if we actually want to do a serious push for legislation it would be for getting those items more than dispensaries. I mean really.

 

Why so much energy when we have so much better items to unite and attempt to get,... if pushing any type of legislation is even a smart move right now in this legislature.

 

I dunno guys.

[OG Fire Beaster]

SFC

 

Yes the Circuit court, the 1st trial.

 

It was in reference to the fact that some dispensaries were operating legally. Then court decisons that held more weight and mattered on a broader scale stated that they were not. The later rulings created the dispensary black market.