What Type Of Access Do Patients Want?

[purple pimpernel]

quoted from another forum---

 

 

"The City of Muskegon ........are requiring growers to register as a business. The growers are having to pay a $30 "business license" fee. I don't want my name on some list down at City Hall that any clown can lookup. I am not a business. I grow enough for myself and my patients. I rarely have overages. I get enough in donations to keep the light on, which isn't cheap. I pay the rest. I don't even let my patients know where I live. I deliver. Michigan needs to pull their collective heads out of their asses. It's like being legel but not. Makeup my mind if I'm a criminal. This is all so ridiculous."

 

 

........"we are all in this together here in Michigan. If Burton or Muskegon are passing MMJ ordinances it effects us all. Here in Muskegon it's the same thing with transporting. Either way it's municipalities using passive aggessive tactics to oppose MMJ and make as much money as they can in the process. It's like a cancer that spreads from one city to the next."

 

 

"The ordinances are crazy. It's like getting a state drivers license and the city requiring you to get another license just for their city. They are double dipping ......The city's are going out of their way to make it hard on growers and patients alike."

 

 

[SFC]

Og, seriously man. I am not going to waste my time with this, someone else may take you up. You are obviously trying like hell to keep everyones heads spinning but it ain't working dude. Ask Peanut.

[OG Fire Beaster]

SFC

 

Thats cool man. I am only trying to point out the double standard of the zoning argument.

 

Purple

 

That is what I am trying to get at. If a community is already doing what they are not allowed to do, regulate and zone a CG, without 4271 being passed. I believe they are not allowed to do that because of the MMMA. If that is true, then why would 4271 allow them to do it if it passes. It wont. Now they may try to do it, but they are already trying and doing it now. So the passage of 4271 is irrelevant to local communities zoning and regulating Cgs. Can we agree on that?

[Highlander]

SFC

 

The comment has been made multiple times that Cgs are already being subject to commercial zoning. That is what I am asking. 4271 has not passed yet, Cgs are already being subjected to zoning. I am asking if the MMMA will protect them now without 4271 being a reality. If so then why wont it protect them if it passes. Is it only because local officials will do what they want regardless?

 

OK I'll explain this to you since SFC is giving up.

 

Some townships are not MMJ friendly right now, but because dispensaries are not legal and MMJ isn't "in their face", MMJ isn't a very high priority for them.

 

If this new law passes, Many, if not most townships will then be forced to address the issue. They will have to pass new ordinances to keep control in their own city/township.

 

This invites all sorts of new regulation in communities that today don't even think twice about this issue.

 

There are over 1,600 township, city, and county governments in Michigan. That is 1,600 new ordinances. The best way to defeat your enemy is to spread him out too thin. People trying to take away grow rights are savvy to this. What better way to thin out our front lines then creating a mandatory new front of 1,600 local MMJ ordinances.

 

I dunno about you OG Beaster. I don't think you see the devil in these details. Someone's marketing material and propaganda is working.

[Restorium2]

SFC

 

Thats cool man. I am only trying to point out the double standard of the zoning argument.

 

Purple

 

That is what I am trying to get at. If a community is already doing what they are not allowed to do, regulate and zone a CG, without 4271 being passed. I believe they are not allowed to do that because of the MMMA. If that is true, then why would 4271 allow them to do it if it passes. It wont. Now they may try to do it, but they are already trying and doing it now. So the passage of 4271 is irrelevant to local communities zoning and regulating Cgs. Can we agree on that?

There is no double standard. I showed you that a few times now. You are still talking nonesense that ignores everything that we have taken the time to tell you.

 

4271 IS ALL ABOUT LOCAL COMMUNITIES AND ZONING. How can you say the exact opposite when we have shown you six ways to Sunday that that's what it's all about.

 

It actually makes going against local zoning CRIMINAL. Now, what part of that don't you understand(again)?

[Highlander]

SFC

 

Thats cool man. I am only trying to point out the double standard of the zoning argument.

 

Purple

 

That is what I am trying to get at. If a community is already doing what they are not allowed to do, regulate and zone a CG, without 4271 being passed. I believe they are not allowed to do that because of the MMMA. If that is true, then why would 4271 allow them to do it if it passes. It wont. Now they may try to do it, but they are already trying and doing it now. So the passage of 4271 is irrelevant to local communities zoning and regulating Cgs. Can we agree on that?

 

This is not true. Local units of government can pass all sorts of ordinances that affect MMJ, as long as they don't single out MMJ. Ordinances can and have been passed that say stuff like this:

 

No indoor gardening in a house you don't live in

No indoor gardening at all

No use of interior lighting over 400 watts in a residential district.

 

etc.

 

etc.

[Restorium2]

Listen OG, it doesn't matter if you think the MMMA trumps something, or I think the MMMA trumps something, it makes no difference in the short run. It doesn't stop the bill or anyone wanting to use it UNTIL we prove that it is trumped by the MMMA. We could win, we could lose, but in the mean time, WE LOSE.

[OG Fire Beaster]

Ok gonna digest this for a little bit.

 

Rest

 

I did not say that 4271 was not about local zoning. I said that without 4271 communities are still doing just that.

[GregS]

We stood down the City of Saginaw with a show of opposition. It can be done.

[Restorium2]

Ok gonna digest this for a little bit.

 

Rest

 

I did not say that 4271 was not about local zoning. I said that without 4271 communities are still doing just that.

We beat them back because they don't have anything to stand on. This bill would give them something they think they can stand on. They used to only be able to give you a ticket, this bill says that the penalties now will be criminal. This bill plays right into the hands of the people we have been fighting tooth and nail that have been zoning people out of their grows. This bill could put Safety Man Dan in your grow room. We don't want to be zoned or inspected. This bill opens the door wide open for that.

[Restorium2]

We stood down the City of Saginaw with a show of opposition. It can be done.

Maybe it could be done again. Maybe. And definitely not when this bill comes to town. It would prove you wrong in their eyes. You wouldn't have the same ground to stand on. This bill puts the municipality in a position of strength. They will stick the wording right in your face Greg, and point at all the toys they were given in the wording.

[GregS]

The opposition should start in Lansing, and now.

[Restorium2]

Recap;

 

First OG said that this bill couldn't possibly regulate caregivers. We proved that it's more than likely that it will.

 

Then he said that it doesn't matter because the MMMA isn't helping very many people. We proved that wrong by showing that 84000 patients were return customers last year. Renewals that went through all the hoops with their doctor and the state. Most of them paid hundreds of dollars to be legal AGAIN. Those people/patients were being helped or they wouldn't have returned for another year. He said WE don't have much to lose. 84,000 legal Michigan Patients don't have much to lose. That is selfish beyond belief. You would think this would bring on sudden realization and possibly shame. But no, OG comes right back at us with, This zoning will not effect caregivers. Is this groundhogs day or what?

Edited February 21, 2013 by Restorium2

[SFC]

No, it is intentional.

[Restorium2]

No, it is intentional.

Ah yup. Selfish ideals. He might as well have said; All you 350,000 patients can go to heck because I want to work at a dispensary.

Believe it or not some patients are, were, and would like to become dispensary operators.

Edited February 21, 2013 by Restorium2

[OG Fire Beaster]

Rest

 

I have said that the MMMA is the controlling document. I have said that this bill would not allow regulating of Cgs. It will allow regulating of PCs(commercial entity). Others have said that it will allow them to regulate Cgs becaue they are a "like entity". I have said the whole time that they may try to do that, but 4271 as written does not allow them to do that. Others have used the example of communities doing it now as proof of what will happen if it passes. I said that if the MMMA protects them from it now, it will continue to do so. I have also stated that people will try and overstep their authority regardless of 4271. I have said that the protections that many people thought they had is steadily becoming less and less. Please don't dictate my position to me. I will say again as I have said before, no one person or group represents medical marijuana in Michigan as a whole.

 

I am willing to continue to push for changes that I like. Just because you feel comfortable with where things are does not mean everyone else does, no matter how much you would like that to be the case.

 

I think your position is just as selfish as you think mine is. Me wanting to work in a specific career field is not selfish in my view. I don't want the entirety of access to marijuana as a medicine and an industry to be strictly the CG/Pt model.

 

SFC

Yes I am intentionally having conversations about what I would like to see happen.

Please stop assuming/inferring that I am working for some group. I am working for my interests and yes I am interested in having dispensaries in the state. I am also interested in full unregulated legalization. That is a big jump from where we are now. Just because the current system works for you does not mean it works for me. I have the right to try and make any change that I want, as do you.

 

I think you are purposefully trying to stagnate any progress to keep marijuana as restricted as possible. See I can do it too.

[Restorium2]

Rest

 

I have said that the MMMA is the controlling document. I have said that this bill would not allow regulating of Cgs. It will allow regulating of PCs(commercial entity). Others have said that it will allow them to regulate Cgs becaue they are a "like entity". I have said the whole time that they may try to do that, but 4271 as written does not allow them to do that. Others have used the example of communities doing it now as proof of what will happen if it passes. I said that if the MMMA protects them from it now, it will continue to do so. I have also stated that people will try and overstep their authority regardless of 4271. I have said that the protections that many people thought they had is steadily becoming less and less. Please don't dictate my position to me. I will say again as I have said before, no one person or group represents medical marijuana in Michigan as a whole.

 

I am willing to continue to push for changes that I like. Just because you feel comfortable with where things are does not mean everyone else does, no matter how much you would like that to be the case.

 

I think your position is just as selfish as you think mine is. Me wanting to work in a specific career field is not selfish in my view. I don't want the entirety of access to marijuana as a medicine and an industry to be strictly the CG/Pt model.

 

SFC

Yes I am intentionally having conversations about what I would like to see happen.

Please stop assuming/inferring that I am working for some group. I am working for my interests and yes I am interested in having dispensaries in the state. I am also interested in full unregulated legalization. That is a big jump from where we are now. Just because the current system works for you does not mean it works for me. I have the right to try and make any change that I want, as do you.

 

I think you are purposefully trying to stagnate any progress to keep marijuana as restricted as possible. See I can do it too.

Listen up again;

The MMMA doesn't trump anything until you prove it does. You need to let that sink in before you post about it again. It's the truth. Just stop going over the same old ground. We have shot that down already.

Nothing wrong with pushing for things you want. But if you bring half truths and lies to do it you will have all respect lost quickly. You are there. You are lying for money.

[SFC]

Until you are at least willing to come clean your words will fall on deaf ears. It is funny you are the only CG riding the horse you are on. You think we don't notice?

[OG Fire Beaster]

Rest

 

I am lying for money? You are calling me a liar for money. I am not the Supreme Court. So all I can go off of is what the MMMA states. You want me to prove something that you yourself can not prove.

 

 

SFC

 

Come clean? About what?

 

 

Both

 

It is really sad how afraid you two are of anything outside your bubble.

[Restorium2]

Rest

 

I am lying for money? You are calling me a liar for money. I am not the Supreme Court. So all I can go off of is what the MMMA states. You want me to prove something that you yourself can not prove.

 

 

SFC

 

Come clean? About what?

 

 

Both

 

It is really sad how afraid you two are of anything outside your bubble.

When we explain to you why the MMMA doesn't automatically trump anything, and you come back with the same idea again, it does seem like a lie then. The first couple times could be just thick headedness. After the third time it's just lying to get what you want. In this case you want a job at a dispensary. It's lying for money you will never see. That's selfish and ignorant.

[Restorium2]

It is really sad how afraid you two are of anything outside your bubble.

 

 

 

I have a record of little or no fear of anyone dispensary related. Go ahead and check with your boss. We go way back. It isn't fear you are detecting. It's determination in the face of liars for money. Next.

[shishka]

84,000 returning non-disp using patients? I think not.

 

Why wouldn't they return when they had such options? And before I hear about how they weren't legal, doesn't matter, they were open and a lot of those 84,000 were using them.

[+Malamute]

So, in actuality, those patients were going to the black market(dispensaries) to get their medicine right?

 

Yet dispensaries call caregivers "black market dealers" that are dangerous for patients. Yet caregivers are the only state legal entity to do such.

 

 

Hmm, classic 101 stuff.

 

So caregivers are actually saving patients from black market drug dealers then..., interesting.

 

Say your opponents are what you are to hide what you are.

[SFC]

No fear over this way bro. We are but a vocal few educated in the ways of the serpents. We have been doing this for four years, after awhile you get really tuned in to what people say and can pick out their game. OG, you can pretend that you are not in their camp, but your words give you away. Are you on any MJ related listservs?

[shishka]

Everything is black market on some level if you want to go that road.