What Type Of Access Do Patients Want?

[Restorium2]

Rest

 

I am not trying to do that. I am trying to advance the access and distribution because I think it is inadequate. I think that doing nothing is unacceptable. I think that the current state is unacceptable.

You just keep blindly plugging at it no matter what we say. Every time I completely answer your question about why this can't work you just ignore it and blast away again with the access mantra. Like it's somehow going to right the ship, change the legislature, and make it so all the wonderful laws you ever wanted will be written and passed. It's going to take a lot of work and we will have to chnage the players to get anything better than what they think they 'gave' us now. They want something though. Regulation. Don't hand it to them for nothing. We do have a lot to lose here.

[OG Fire Beaster]

Rest

 

I respect what you have to say and your view. I just don't believe what your are trying to say to be the truth. I don't believe that it is impossible to have a favorable dispensary bill. I don't believe the fear that many are trying to push. I see that it is a possibility, I do not believe that it is a certainty. I think we have less to lose then you do because I don't think we have that much right now. All you have to do is spend some time looking at how the protections we supposedly have under the MMMA are not really protecting all that many people. And are getting smaller and smaller by the ruling. If you are satisfied with hiding in the shadows so be it. I am not. Many people have been doing what they are "allowed" to do now before the MMMA was passed. If all some people are satisfied with is having a micro grow in a closet that no one knows about, they really didn't need the MMMA for that. Maybe you will stay out of jail or prison but you will still pay out the donkey in order to do so. I would rather get them some money legally, by taxes or permits, because in the end that is all they want.

[Restorium2]

Rest

 

I respect what you have to say and your view. I just don't believe what your are trying to say to be the truth. I don't believe that it is impossible to have a favorable dispensary bill. I don't believe the fear that many are trying to push. I see that it is a possibility, I do not believe that it is a certainty. I think we have less to lose then you do because I don't think we have that much right now. All you have to do is spend some time looking at how the protections we supposedly have under the MMMA are not really protecting all that many people. And are getting smaller and smaller by the ruling. If you are satisfied with hiding in the shadows so be it. I am not. Many people have been doing what they are "allowed" to do now before the MMMA was passed. If all some people are satisfied with is having a micro grow in a closet that no one knows about, they really didn't need the MMMA for that. Maybe you will stay out of jail or prison but you will still pay out the donkey in order to do so. I would rather get them some money legally, by taxes or permits, because in the end that is all they want.

How many registered patients are there in this state? And how many are return customers? It's working. People don't renew if it doesn't work for them.

[OG Fire Beaster]

Fair enough.

[Restorium2]

There were over 43,000 return customers to the Michigan Medical Marijuana Program in the last 6 months of last year, so you can't say our numbers are dwindling. That's an estimated 86,000 renewal patients, just last year, that are enjoying not being regulated. Now tell me again that there is little to lose.

Edited February 21, 2013 by Restorium2

[+Malamute]

I think we know that commercial advocates have regularly undermined the validity of the Caregiver and the caregiver system(the law). I do hope we don;t need to rehash this at this very moment that it is true.

 

Now,... if i were to ask,.. nicely, say the lobbyist, or legislative liason or leaders of NPRA to stop saying that caregivers are "not safe", dangerous, incompetent or street dealers,... nor that a caregiver selling marijuana in their house is dangerous for communities, or that cannabis is dangerous in general and such; do you think they would agree that they shouldnt be doing that and putting those kinda quotes in the media and filling legislators ears with nonsense?

 

That is a question to everyone and directly to those that are not seeing the tree through the forest. If I asked them to please stop saying that having caregivers make compensated transfers to their 5 patients in their neighbourhood is dangerous, or that caregivers are dangerous to old ladies, or that they(cg's) are incompetent, or street dealers or this type of thing;,,, what do you think they would say to me?

 

 

SImple question.... will they stop demagoguing caregivers?

 

What will they say?

Edited February 21, 2013 by Malamute

[OG Fire Beaster]

I agree that rhetoric is out of control. It is typical for the media. That is how people garner attention to the issue that they are pushing. They attack others and make fantastic statements to get attention. I do not support that.

 

I do not think Cg or Pt growing and transferring are any danger. I simply think there needs to be a way for broader safer access. I do not support the attacks on people following the MMMA guidelines. I think most of the people here know that the media/legislature/LEO love to make grand, false, and inflammatory statements.

[Restorium2]

Don't be fooled by bait and switch by rep. Callton.

This is his scammy quote;

 

If you're a grower and are concerned about how

your now going to be able to continue to afford to grow your medicine, come

ask questions as to how HB 4271 will help you.

 

Now you can see how he lies to appeal to those who were diverting to the dispensaries. He dangles the chances of riches in front of you to get you to sell out for regulation. The dispensaries will grow their own. He's full of it and thinks he's fooling everybody.

[OG Fire Beaster]

I also see the same tactic/strategy being used by the people that do not wish for dispensaries.

[Restorium2]

I agree that rhetoric is out of control. It is typical for the media. That is how people garner attention to the issue that they are pushing. They attack others and make fantastic statements to get attention. I do not support that.

 

I do not think Cg or Pt growing and transferring are any danger. I simply think there needs to be a way for broader safer access. I do not support the attacks on people following the MMMA guidelines. I think most of the people here know that the media/legislature/LEO love to make grand, false, and inflammatory statements.

You can see it yourself. You already said the bill wouldn't regulate caregivers because they are not commercial. Then I bring you proof that townships are calling caregivers commercial. You saw it for yourself, it's not hype. It makes perfect sense. It's like looking one single move ahead.

[Restorium2]

I also see the same tactic/strategy being used by the people that do not wish for dispensaries.

At least we are not being pickle headed and not listening when someone shows you the handwriting on the wall.

[GregS]

There are many possible answers to the question of "what is the hassle of someone else growing for them". Some patients don't want to give plant rights to another person that is linked to them via the registry for example. Some patients don't want to be dependent on one other person only to supply their meds to them. Some patients are paranoid about the exposure that they could create for themselves by assigning their plants to another. Those are just a couple quick ones.

 

Many patients are perfectly happy using a caregiver. Others are not.

 

What I want is many different avenues of safe distribution/access. Not just one.

I wanna drive fast alll the time. I wanna grab money from banks every day. I wanna beat the living hell outa most aszholes I meet.

 

Welcome to the law.

[Murph]

ALL,

The answer is simple - all of us want as many choices as possible. Further demand exceeds supply of scarce resources (MM), thus it is really a basic problem

that is common to most all businesses:

 

How do we achieve success LEGALLY and at the least cost with the best products (made widely available)? It is a combined Business and Political problem that is also very simple is distilled down to its component parts:

 

1) It is the Government and LEO (Law Enforcement Officers) that wants to make it as difficult as possible to obtain MM --- and (they think) by throwing various hurdles, hoops, trips, and complications to remain "legal" (as no one wants to go to jail... generally), that if they can ultimately making it so complicated and frustrating that they will eventually either discourage, OR trip people up into breaking the law (who they then arrest and lock up) then they (the Gov. and LEO) Win the War......it is much like the Strategy they (the Gov. and LEO) have been using in the (failed) "War on Drugs" for the past 80 years.. (and isn't it interesting the drugs they can patent and make tons of money on are legal, and drugs they cannot, like plants, are illegal? Anyway, I digress, sorry.....

 

2) SO, It is the Gov. who wants to make it that you and I have NO choices available for obtaining MM or it is frustrating and complicated), right?.

 

3) Fact is It is hard and expensive to grow MM. It takes (in addition to money) skill, time, a place as the best MM stinks to High Heaven while budding, to grow quality MM. And, as everyone holding MM Cards is not the same, so what you like I might not like ---- again choice, different variety, and a large supply and inventory solves these problems -- but all this is expensive, time consuming and, well, work..... so restrict this "work" to as few as possible and they make it harder...to them harder is good,

 

4) But it is a plant but Many of Us do not want to, or cannot, grow MM. This they (the Gov. and LEO) knows so they have an objective to make it difficult as possible if you do not grow MM, to obtain MM, good quality and variety and amount -- so they restrict it to make it as hard as possible, as limited as possible, to grow or be a caregiver. They have multiple prongs

 

and 5) they (the Gov. and LEO) figure if they restrict as much as possible, they will defeat US and the Will of the Voters and things will go back

(to the failed war on drugs so their drugs are the legal ones (alcohol) and they also continue the supply you and I as Prisoners to their for-profit prisons and Jails if We make a mere mistake......

 

BUT they (the Gov. and LEO) have it fundamentally wrong -- eventually everyone that can will become both a Patient AND a Caregiver. this will solve some of the

problem..

 

Secondly, they restrict "legal sales" and make it so only a few can do so, so anyone (card Holding) to anyone (card Holding) is illegal.... because they did not include one word ("sales") in the Initiative the Court said and made it law (for a little bit) that you mr. patient cannot sell to me, mr. patient -- but the Sup. Crt. stuck that interpretation down in the McQueen decision -- but the problem is worse now, with simultaneously making dispensaries Illegal

 

WHAT TO DO THEN YOU ASK?

7) Well first off, the bottom line is for the first time in my Lives, (and probably most people here) IT IS LEGAL TO POSSESS 2.5 Oz with the Card, so IF YOU HAVE YOUR CARD, TO POSSESS MM. it is cool.........THAT IS HUGE. so now it is only back to CHOICES....WE WANT CHOICES

 

The rest will come. It will come faster if we can stop disagreeing about minor issues and come together about the major ones -- we all want more choices.

 

So, 8) the solution is much like it was during Prohibition of Alcohol -- until We learn we are stronger TOGETHER than separately things will go slow. But the momenet all of Us realize that once We agree the major issue IS BEING LEGAL TO BUY AND SELL....and How to do it.......then We all agree that if We want choices, legal choices (to go here or there or anywhere we want), then things will move faster as that requires to win ELECTIONS plain and simple....power comes from the Voting Booth and that takes all of Us voting the right way for the right person ON THAT ISSUE ALONE ----

 

9) The minor issues We can work out together later. First things First though --

 

10) SO We want to be legal and safe obtaining MM. This is No. 1 right?

 

Then once that WE want make that No. 1 objective, more choices where to legally BUY AND SELL MM --- what and where (and what quality and what price and so on is a lesser issue AFTER we can do No. 1, and that requires that We all work together and Win Elections ( setting aside the minor differences (and do not forget some people just will not get it and will try to screw everyone up) and get the No. 1 done FIRST.

 

So it is really very simple --if all 344,000+ Card Holders, and their families and friends in Michigan vote in a pretty tight block then that is all that is required to WIN -- miss this one point and We lose............. People in America have known this for over 200 years. We can do it, but We must set aside the small issues till later and obtain this one thing first ------so the ability to buy and sell LEGALLY must come first. If everyone votes that way it will happen.........

 

 

11a)And, at those same elections, Mich Atty.Gen Schuttee will be Voted out of a Job come next Election.

11b) These Court of Appeals Judges will be VOTED out of a Job too (and more reasonable Lawyers will then become Judges).

11c) Opposing Legislators will be voted out of Office as Well.

 

Until WE realize We have a common foe, and common objective -- being safe and legal obtaining MM ---to begin with, then things will change.

and things will change faster once WE ALL COMMIT TO MAKE that happen.

 

Most Americans can read the writing on the Wall -- so soon as they realize We have got our objective together, they will see the Community Has set aside our petty differences for another day and joined together as ONE, they will realize it is ALL IN OUR INTERESTS to work together. !!!

 

Its really very simple,

 

- Elections have consequences.

 

In the meantime, until election day, We can practice on local and other smaller issues and Show power that TOGETHER Thousands of people have, and we will win this or that --- sticking together as MM Patients and Caregives and making that No. 1, things will change.........

M

Edited February 21, 2013 by Murph

[GregS]

There is a much better way than what mediswipe is offering, and that ensures confidentiality, privacy, and reasonable access at good prices.

[GregS]

Ya know. If you look through craigslist you will find a hell of a lot of caregivers looking for pts, but dam few pts looking for cgs. Is there really a shortage of caregivers? I think not.

[roadworkahead]

There were over 43,000 return customers to the Michigan Medical Marijuana Program in the last 6 months of last year, so you can't say our numbers are dwindling. That's an estimated 86,000 renewal patients, just last year, that are enjoying not being regulated. Now tell me again that there is little to lose.

you got that right! thanks and have a great weekend

[bobandtorey]

Reading between the lines of Jones' interview above, it seems that if his hand is forced, he still won't support dispensaries, but will try to push mandatory testing.

 

I can see someone taking their Michigan #LB to the test site now

[roadworkahead]

Here's one from an A2 dispensary asking to send this letter.

"Dear Honorable Mr. Mackie, I am writing this letter to urge you to keep MM dispensaries safe. Dispensaries will keep patients off of the black market when obtaining meds"

 

Also added on their website is : bring in a referral and both you and the referral will each receive a free gram each.

Don't think any CVS pharmacy or any pharmacy would advertise like this. IMHO don't think this is very cool.

 

Who really is the black market?

[GanjaWarrior]

Here's one from an A2 dispensary asking to send this letter.

"Dear Honorable Mr. Mackie, I am writing this letter to urge you to keep MM dispensaries safe. Dispensaries will keep patients off of the black market when obtaining meds"

 

Also added on their website is : bring in a referral and both you and the referral will each receive a free gram each.

Don't think any CVS pharmacy or any pharmacy would advertise like this. IMHO don't think this is very cool.

 

Who really is the black market?

whoa slow down a min.....when you say " dont think any cvs pharmacy..." what does that have to do with us? If i wanted to go to cvs, id take pills not grow meds. My medicine is nothing like pills, dont put it in that category please. but if you really must.... its not a prescription, so its like the doctor saying "you could get benefit from honey and garlic" now when i go to cvs thats buy one get one and i can share it with who over i want.

[GanjaWarrior]

Or you could get your honey and garlic from your neighbor that keeps bees and has a garden. Then you would be getting it from "the black market."

no such thing. the doc said i could use honey i can get it where i need to

[OG Fire Beaster]

That is because right now the "black market" is anything other then yourself or your caregiver.

 

So if the bill does not pass, what will the Cgs do that are in the places where they are being zoned commercial now? Are they just screwed regardless? Or will the MMMA protect them from the zoning that they are wrongfully being subject to? If it will help them now, assuming the bill does not pass, why would it not help them if the bill does pass?

 

No law will ever prevent local officials from trying to exceed their authority and I have seen that they are already doing just that, without this bill.

[SFC]

OG, you need to go back and read the language of the MMMA. That is what protects us from local governments until something like this piece of garbage (4271) passes. At least it has so far. There are cases in court.

[GregS]

That is because right now the "black market" is anything other then yourself or your caregiver.

 

So if the bill does not pass, what will the Cgs do that are in the places where they are being zoned commercial now? Are they just screwed regardless? Or will the MMMA protect them from the zoning that they are wrongfully being subject to? If it will help them now, assuming the bill does not pass, why would it not help them if the bill does pass?

 

No law will ever prevent local officials from trying to exceed their authority and I have seen that they are already doing just that, without this bill.

 

Any local prohibition of caregiving, or for that matter legitimate medical use, on the part of local communities is unenforceable. The law protects us from any arrest or penalty for engaging, anywhere and anytime, except as specified in section 7.

[OG Fire Beaster]

SFC

 

The comment has been made multiple times that Cgs are already being subject to commercial zoning. That is what I am asking. 4271 has not passed yet, Cgs are already being subjected to zoning. I am asking if the MMMA will protect them now without 4271 being a reality. If so then why wont it protect them if it passes. Is it only because local officials will do what they want regardless?

[OG Fire Beaster]

That is what I am saying. I believe the MMMA does protect them for the reason GregS just stated. If 4271 passes then the same reason will still protect them from zoning. The MMMA still states that any law that conflicts with the protections provided is not enforceable.

 

I believe wholeheartedly that some people will try and abuse their authority. Just like I believe that some people will try and abuse what the MMMA allows. I think that was one of the original arguments against the MMMA to begin with, that people would try and abuse it. Everyone was able to see through that argument I don't understand why they choose not to apply the same logic to this.