Received A Letter To Cease And Desist

[GregS]

I charged my neighbor ten bucks to make them a pie to cover my costs.  It does not make me a business.  ;-)

 

I am just saying it is an interesting concept that I have thought about for along time.

 

 If a caregiver can be considered a business, in my personal opinion, it may open them up to some sort of reasonable home business ordinances.  Something that has concerned me for sure.  Ter Beek will obviously answer some questions.

 

But is a caregiver a business?  Most caregivers are merely taking care of themselves as patients, their family or close friends.  Vast majority.  Is that a business? Not in my opinion.

 

Other end of the spectrum, a caregiver who bought a residential house which he/she uses 50% of the square footage for growing for medical use, sells to 5 patients, and sells a lb a ,month to a "dispensary".

 

Is that a business?

 

 

 And at what point, if there is one between those concepts at all, does a business begin to exist? And at what point can reasonable regulations(nuisance, signage, percentage of home used for business) be implemented and adhered to?

I don't think it is business any more than sharing or selling my garden produce to neighbors and passers by, with the caveat that they are qualifying patients.

[GregS]

GregS,

 

The business zoning issues most likely existed before mm. should that business zoning ordinance be granted variant just for non resident marijuana grow houses, or should other cottage industry  businesses be allowed to disregard the zoning issue also?

As far as I'm concerned, there is no good reason to regulate home grows under zoning laws EXCEPT to enforce already existing building codes for electrical, mechanical, and plumbing purposes. There are no additional regulations to our vegetable gardens, and cannabis is a homegrown herb.

[GregS]

Very interesting scenarios, lol

Perhaps an E-Bayer who works at home, buying and selling all day all night... We all know someone who does that. Why must these neighbors continue to pick on the sick or those who only want to help the sick, why don't they bully the Ebayer.. $_$

Because they are sick fuks and have been able to get away with it?

[t-pain]

i think the difference is that selling vegetables is a public business while MMMA caregiving is a private business, only able to serve 5 people at a time.

 

happy now guys?

[micheledamron]

The people v koon did rule the no ordinance can interfer with mmma

Edited December 3, 2013 by micheledamron

[GregS]

i think the difference is that selling vegetables is a public business while MMMA caregiving is a private business, only able to serve 5 people at a time.

 

happy now guys?

Do you see me smiling?    )))))))))))))))

Edited December 3, 2013 by GregS

[+Malamute]

Yea. This is where messaging and what is said is so important. When 'people' spend years saying they can run a commercial operation because they are a caregiver,... is it no wonder that a caregiver is being considered a business?

 

And if a caregiver is considered a business, what regulations,.. ahem,... "reasonable regulations"(not my words), can be expected for a home run business?  How much activity does the MMMA protect? Can a basic ordinance regulate nuisances caused by said caregiving? 

 

 Like i said,... Ter Beek will answer some questions for sure.  But, eventually a line will be drawn, and we should make sure, marijuana caregivers are not a business and should not be represented as one.  I suspect at the point a sale is approved to a middleman and not the original 5 patients, it could then be considered a business.  HB 4271 is attempting to make that bridge.  They will need to amend the Act to actually allow a caregiver to do such,... but if they do,  can a caregiver who supplies a dispensary be considered a business? And what unforeseen repercussions and results can be expected from it?

[imiubu]

Yea. This is where messaging and what is said is so important. When 'people' spend years saying they can run a commercial operation because they are a caregiver,... is it no wonder that a caregiver is being considered a business?

 

And if a caregiver is considered a business, what regulations,.. ahem,... "reasonable regulations"(not my words), can be expected for a home run business?  How much activity does the MMMA protect? Can a basic ordinance regulate nuisances caused by said caregiving? 

 

 Like i said,... Ter Beek will answer some questions for sure.  But, eventually a line will be drawn, and we should make sure, marijuana caregivers are not a business and should not be represented as one.  I suspect at the point a sale is approved to a middleman and not the original 5 patients, it could then be considered a business.  HB 4271 is attempting to make that bridge.  They will need to amend the Act to actually allow a caregiver to do such,... but if they do,  can a caregiver who supplies a dispensary be considered a business? And what unforeseen repercussions and results can be expected from it?

 

right.

[pic book]

celly nailed it.   you r scrwed on viol zoning...

cg not a biz?  so you do not file taxes?  a biz is the provision of goods or services for pay.

Edited December 3, 2013 by pic book

[micheledamron]

But it is not pay. It is compensation for medicinal marijuana.

[trichcycler]

I agree, however, THIS, is NOT a HOME grow, it is a grow op located in an otherwise vacant home. I suspect as soon as the insurer gets wind of this, there will be even more issue. Allstate will not insure a vacant house used to grow marijuana.

As far as I'm concerned, there is no good reason to regulate home grows under zoning laws EXCEPT to enforce already existing building codes for electrical, mechanical, and plumbing purposes. There are no additional regulations to our vegetable gardens, and cannabis is a homegrown herb.

[trichcycler]

semantics.

But it is not pay. It is compensation for medicinal marijuana.

[+Malamute]

But it is not pay. It is compensation for medicinal marijuana.

 

Something i previously wrote.

 

 

Definition of Costs, Compensation and Expenses

 

Sec 6(e) A registered primary caregiver may receive compensation for costs associated with assisting a registered qualifying patient in the medical use of marihuana. Any such compensation shall not constitute the sale of controlled substances.

 

 

Definiton of "costs" as listed and defined in Blacks Law Dictionary 8th edition:

 

 

"Cost" n 1. The amount paid or charged for something; price or expenditure. Cf. EXPENSE

 

Types of costs:

 

aboriginal cost

after cost

applied cost

average cost

avoidable cost

carrying cost

common cost

cost of completion

direct cost

distribution cost

fixed cost

flotation cost

historical cost

implicit cost

indirect cost

manufacturing cost

marginal cost

mitigation cost

mixed cost

net book cost

opportunity cost

original cost

prime cost

prophylactic cost

replacement cost

social cost

sunk cost

tangible cost

transaction cost

unit cost

variable cost

 

It goes on for 2 more pages with full definitions...

 

 

Definition of "Compensate" as listed and defined in Blacks Law Dictionary 8th edition:

 

"Compensate" vb. 1. To pay (another) for services rendered <the lawyer was fairly compensated for their time and effort> 2. To make an amendatory payment to; to recompensate.

 

 

Definition of "Compensation" as listed and defined in Blacks Law Dictionary 8th edition:

 

"Compensation" n. Remuneration and other benefits recieved in return for services rendered; esp. salary or wages.

 

"Compensation consists of wages and benefits in return for services. It is payment for work, If the work contracted for is not done, there is no obligation to pay. [Compensation] includes wages, stock options plans, profit-sharing, commissions, bonuses, golden parachutes, vacation, sick pay, medical benefits, disability, leaves of absence, and expense reimbursement." Kurt H. Decker & H. Thomas Felix II, Drafting and Revising Employment Contracts S 3.17, at 68(1991).

 

 

Definition of "Expense" as listed and defined in Blacks Law Dictionary 8th edition:

 

"Expense" n. An expenditure of money, time, labor, or resources to accomplish a result;

[mibrains]

it should not matter that the home was vacant or not.

 

occupancy should not dictate the services rendered.

 

the person selling items on ebay is regulated most likely and is not following the guidelines.

 

every zoning law i have read has every possible business covered for regulations.. they have a "all other" clause that encompasses every possible business.

 

the question was and still is whether or not growing cannabis is a business or not.

 

i would say no.

 

because we are relegated to only serving a maximum of five people...

 

without the possibility of expansion are we a business?

 

the cottage food industries in Michigan are required to limit their sales from there homes to ensure they remain small enough to fit in the definition of a residential zone.

 

most home business are required to stay small enough to not have an impact on the value and competency of the neighborhood they are a part of.

 

so maybe we are?  maybe we are not...

 

the rule is... out of sight. out of mind..

 

a patient would be safe to grow their own medicine i would assume to the end.... however a caregiver could be a different story...

Edited December 3, 2013 by mibrains

[Celliach]

But it is not pay. It is compensation for medicinal marijuana.

 Winning a sweepstakes or receiving a gift isn't pay either, but they are both still taxed.

[trichcycler]

I could see cheap houses bought up to be used for grow houses by groups of "caregivers" even with cards, and wonder of neighbor rights, when one goes wrong, as they often do. They can result in police gunfire, break ins, flood, fire, gang retaliation, traffic, odors, trash, just as our grows can, except being vacant is being a target, a well lit one too.  Its a great debate and I'm glad to be part of it. There are fine points to consider with each party involved.

it should not matter that the home was vacant or not.

 

occupancy should not dictate the services rendered.

 

the person selling items on ebay is regulated most likely and is not following the guidelines.

 

every zoning law i have read has every possible business covered for regulations.. they have a "all other" clause that encompasses every possible business.

 

the question was and still is whether or not growing cannabis is a business or not.

 

i would say no.

 

because we are relegated to only serving a maximum of five people...

 

without the possibility of expansion are we a business?

 

the cottage food industries in Michigan are required to limit their sales from there homes to ensure they remain small enough to fit in the definition of a residential zone.

 

most home business are required to stay small enough to not have an impact on the value and competency of the neighborhood they are a part of.

 

so maybe we are?  maybe we are not...

 

the rule is... out of sight. out of mind..

 

a patient would be safe to grow their own medicine i would assume to the end.... however a caregiver could be a different story...

[MiMedical]

I would say a Caregiver is someone who takes care of their patients, not a "Grower", maybe a Hobbiest, not a shop, grow house or a business. But strictly a Caregiver, a Grow Op sounds illegal, a Grower sounds illegal. But a Caregiver who looks after their patients, documents their needs and medications (ie strains ailments what worked what didn't, dosage etc) sounds alot more like the MMMA.

Lets say for example, a caregiver opens a place to dispense meds to his 5 patients in a industrial zone, now the city, police will fight them because they are now a dispensary, and that's the same even for agricultural zones..(a year or two ago the state wanted caregivers to grow in Agricultural zones, even patients I believe) I don't know, It's not fair.

[Restorium2]

That's what they call 'Operating a Drug House'. I can't believe that some would intentially do this to themselves. Who expects to get away with this stuff? Crazy.

[micheledamron]

If you grow in your own home and have kids they can take your kids away for putting them in danger of break ins and robbery. So if you grow in a different home that you own it is a business. Can't win.

[micheledamron]

I don't think it's a drug house. No one comes or goes there but me. That is the same as saying anywhere you grow is considered a drug house.

[beourbud]

I don't think it's a drug house. No one comes or goes there but me. That is the same as saying anywhere you grow is considered a drug house.

 

If you are not using it as a residence it is going in the "Other"  File

 

If no traffic,   prob not id as drug house.

 

Good Luck....but you are going to need more than that

[bobandtorey]

Maintaining a drug house is one charge that comes into play after a raid

[Restorium2]

Doesn't matter what YOU think. There's no doubt every law enforcement officer in town thinks it's just a drug house. Like I said, when you were 'outed' your gig was up and you should be happily growing somewhere else. I worry about anyone who even knows about the location of  my little patient grow ruining it for me. Every crook in Wayne is thinking of how to rob you now and sell your stuff on the street.  Your arse is hanging out there 10 miles.  Take a hint ......

[micheledamron]

Like I said. If you grow where you reside and have kids you are running the risk of losing them

Edited December 3, 2013 by micheledamron

[beourbud]

I dont know

 

Tens of thousands of cards and only a handful of characters making the rest look bad and losing our freedom

 

Tens of thousands Growing their Own.....sans drama

 

Around here no one would have complained.  Matter o fact i can think of a half dozen locations you can see from the road.

 

Good Neighbors are better than Great Walls

 

As for leo...they got better things to do....like dawgin the rippers lol

 

Come out of the closet and into the Sunlight there is nothing to fear but the politicians.

Edited December 3, 2013 by beourbud