Any Give An Octopot A Try?

[trichcycler]

nobody shows these run outdoors under sun, think that's the next frontier?

 Me thinks heat could be an issue outdoors

 

density is not the issue, but rather porosity sufficient to serve as a wick?

 again, concrete wicks water up hill.  dirt, rocks, pea gravel, perlite, a sponge, even a rope...no matter.

 

why is air pruning effective here but not there?

 

 nature does not air prune under ground for thought. there are only a couple roots hanging out of the open bottom delivering water with capillary action to the soil and the roots above, assisting the wicking action.

Gotta google 'Earth Box' zap, happily you teach the history of grow system development to us lesser informeds.

 Mayan's used wicking hydroponic systems, as well as ebb/flow on timers calculated with water weights. They were very successful with Aquaponics also, raising many Tilapia fish in large reservoirs cleaned via plant feeding and circulation.

I own and used Earth Boxes and they work well with all of my vegetables. They did not perform worth a poop indoors with either cannabis or vegetables, for the root rot. this was the concern with the octopots, but venting, cloth bag seem to have corrected the issue.

 

you are right, they sure lack the look of two pound plants shown by shaggytodope and billy liar, as well as heath.

Agreed, but then again, who in the heck wants a 2 pound plant. Ridiculously difficult to support, water/feed/light/weight/air circulation/co2 not to mention nobody in MI is allowed to possess 2 pounds at one time according to the Act rules.

 

at first thought daisy chaining these together seems natural. And it might be right up someones grow habit alley, but not mine. Leaks, wet/dry vacs/pinched lines/pumps/etc are a thing of the past for me. Three yrs ago I would have them plumbed together, and today would be patching the holes feeling dumb surely.

Edited May 4, 2015 by grassmatch

[semicaregiver]

There are two threads running on the Octopot.  I put this here since I started my report here.

 

Below is the result of 56 days at 12/12 in an octopot for a hog plant.   I used soul synthetics at 50% introduced in the reservoir.  Judging by the smell I am very sure that the reservoir went anaerobic yet it does not seem to have hurt the plant.   It is impossible to make any judgement about the roots.  Soul Synthetics has such a dark brown consistency that you can not tell if the roots have rot or are just covered in nutrients.  

 

I do not have a dry weight at this point.  I weighed the wet bud and assuming a dry weight of 22% the plant produced 4 z's.  I should add that condition were less than ideal.   This was grown in a small space that I cleared in a storage room.  There was no ventilation, no temperture control, no CO2 and a 2 year old bulb (min. 8000hr use on bulb) that I had lying around.

 

While I am happy with the yield, this was an experiment to see if this system could make gardening less time consuming.  Mixing the nutes and adding them to the reservoir was not any less complicated than dwc or soil.   From that perspective the experiment was a failure.   Around 6/1 I plan to restage the experiment.  The experiment will include a new 600w bulb, A/C, a 4 plant set up in a 3x3 flood and drain tray set up with same depth as the Octopot reservoir, basic organic nutes (per grassmatch's setup), and only water in the reservoir set up with an auto fill.    Goal is to see if this can be the mythical set up where you plant the pot, set the timers and thermostats and come back in 7 weeks to harvest.   

 

As an added note, support for the flowers seems to be a problem.   Historically I have used bamboo, but the octopot pot does not seem stable enough.   It is not shown, but I jury rigged support using a simple piece of 3' wire fence roll bent into a 270 degree circle and slipped up under the plant and rested on the edges of the reservoir.   The 270 was to enable me to slip it on and off for access to the plant.  I did not want anything fixed for the experiment.    

[trichcycler]

nice looking buds !!!!

sorry to hear of a failure. 

 

I suspected with salt ferts the res would be growing more flora and using more 02 than with water alone.

 

How often did you refill the reservoir ?    added bubbles?

[semicaregiver]

Failure may have been too strong a word.  I set the experiment up wrong.   Should have just set it up to use organic ferts in soil and just water.  Not sure what I was thinking when I started it.

 

Added water, 3-4 gallons every 3-4 days.  Ferts once a week.  No air.

 

There is a second plant, Pineapple Express.   Seemed like it needed more time.   At this point I am guessing it is at 2 z's.  

 

So far, so good.  I am looking forward to a four pot/ one reservoir set up.

[mibrains]

semi i sincerely believe that these octopots are meant for an organic soil mix and straight up water.

 

it gives the plants the same enviroment as a Forrest floor.

 

its what they want.. water whenever they desire and food in the upper chamber whenever they desire.

 

its the combination of the organic soil with the fresh water that seems to be the magical solution in my room so far.

 

thank you so much for sharing your experience.

 

its been so much fun to follow along and then actually join this system and try for myself.

 

i am beyond sold on mine.

 

i do not have the problem of them plants not being able to support themselves since i already have mobile trellis's

 

excellent pictures and thank you again for sharing.

[trichcycler]

well well, ditto my friend!  but I'm organ-a-biased too.

[mibrains]

well to be truthful i just watched the movie Noah a few days ago and now i am not so sure i should be eating flesh.

 

nor should my plants be eating blood or bone meal.

 

i am conflicted about my understanding of the true meaning of nature. natural. organic. and vegan.  i know what the definition of these words mean however my understanding of the words seems to be changing more and more as i accept natural medications into my life.

 

go cannabis.

 

you are humanities Saviour... giggle  as if any of us would argue cannabis works..

 

however we feed our girls.. they are mighty.

[trichcycler]

I know right !

 

I went the veganic road a few years ago with the worm show. they only ate cannabis leaves, I only used their recycled dirt to grow in, and their tea to feed with spring water. It was a great feeling of wholeness. I became concerned with the handling of live fertilizer and growing cannabis in the same room so I sought alternatives. Not many ticked all of my boxes until Botanicare.= composted, no pathogens=blend of highly active humic acid, composted poultry litter, alfalfa meal, sulfate of potash, and natural plant extracts.

 

That did it for me and it rocks with no issues. it does smell though, so I keep it outside of the room for sanitary reasons.

 

As for Noah, I just saw it too, decent flick, little unexpected stuff, but good production/acting.....I avoid those additives you spoke of for the heavy metals present in them, and the possible pathogens. I know neither is well based really, and most likely harmless too, but I need to feel good all day and night(just like you) too. I suppose plants have always flourished as a result of meat an bone decay/compost I could still sleep if I found it in botanicare. Better than basal salts and chelators.

[semicaregiver]

A question for Grass and an observation on the soil in the octopot and the root growth.

 

1st, the Botanicare/Organicare stuff you keep mentioning.  Is it the Organicare Pure Bloom?

 

2nd, I was originally having trouble believing that the plant could extract nutrients from what appeared to be dry soil.  The top few inches certainly feel dry and the outside of the bag feels dry.   I just dumped out the grow bag and found that the majority of the soil from 3" down was moist so I now believe there is a wicking process.

 

3rd, I was curious how critical all the holes are in the upper section of the root pot insert/base, i.e. are they necessary for roots to grow down into the reservoir?   My interest in this relates to my wanting to use just the grow pot/bag/insert in my own reservoir.  Problem is I found they will sell me just the fabric bag approx $7) but not the plastic net pot insert.  If I want their proprietary insert I need to spend $45 for the entire unit.   A regular dwc 5 gallon lid with a 6" net pot molded in is $2.5.   The end result is the insert will cost me $38 compared to the $2.5.  For a large set up this translates to several thousand dollars.   The 5 gallon lid diameter is too big, but with a band saw and simple jig you could knock out 50 plus in two hours.   This leads back to the question of how important are all the holes/slots in the flat part of the lid.   Are they important for roots to grow thru?  On the one I harvested the roots all seemed to come out of the net pot section.  Perhaps the holes are critical for wicking?  Or perhaps the mold maker suggested they could reduce cost by putting in a bunch of slots and hence reduce the plastic needed.   As an aside, one of the youtube video's had them using a 10 gallon smart pot with a hole punched in the bottom and a 6 or 8" net pot inserted and the entire thing resting on top of the octopot reservoir.

 

As I am typing this, I am thinking of revising my next test.  I will select four veg plants as identical as possible.  I will put two in the existing octopot bags I have and put two in a smart pot/net pot combo.   All I will now need to buy for the next test will be a new bulb and the organicare stuff.   This is getting better and better.

Edited May 12, 2015 by semicaregiver

[trichcycler]

I use Organicare http://www.botanicare.com/Pure-Granular-Bloom-1-5-46-Ca-P55.aspx

 

I believe now that those slits cut into the bottom are for air flow. for instance my five gallon bucket, with a hole cut out of the bottom, and a "net cup" inserted there goes anaerobic in a week. I can only blame the success in this area on those slits.

 

alternatively a normal five gallon grow bag, or those fancy snap together ones are even better, can be retro fitted with a net cup only in the bottom with great success so far. Not sure why they bothered with the whole branded bag thing, with the bottom insert really. Oh well, I'm loyal, and vow to fill my flower room with genuine octopots, and admit I may skimp on the bag replacements.

[semicaregiver]

FWIW, random info that you did not know you needed to know.

 

The dryer is not a good place for an octopot bag.

 

The other day I ran a bag thru the washer along with some misc rags and stuff that I use for cleanup.   Latter on I was in a hurry to use the washer for another load and did not give any thought to just grabbing everything from the washer and dropping it in the dryer so I could reload the washer.   The bag material appears to be very heat sensitive and distorted to the point where it may not be usable.  

 

End conclusion, if washing, air dry.

[Wild Bill]

nor should my plants be eating blood or bone meal.

 

What do you suppose happens to animals bodies when they die and decay in the forest?

[trichcycler]

I think those bags are made with a lot of polypropylene, not cloth.  dryer bummer!

 

New semicaregiver thread:

 

What Not to Do With An Octopot !

 

 

actually, thanks for saving us the hassle of experimenting with these.

I let mine dry for a day and shake the roots and dirt off and refill.

 

buying new bags, or going to try an alternative?

Edited May 18, 2015 by grassmatch

[mibrains]

What do you suppose happens to animals bodies when they die and decay in the forest?

 

worms eat them...bugs eat them... animals eat them..so we are merely animals who can eat meat i suppose....

[semicaregiver]

buying new bags, or going to try an alternative?

 

Guess both now.   Plan is for a 3x3 drain & fill tray with 4 plants.   2 w/ octopot's bags and 2 w 5 gal smart pots fitted w/ 5" net pot.   I "had" two octopot bags, guess I will have to go back to the store and buy another bag.

[trichcycler]

I was thinking about you today in my room. I was a hydro pro all the way. Kept between 4 and 10 1 gallon grow bags per 3x3 hydrofarm tray. flood and drain was my preferred method of delivering nutes. I didn't have issue until I began my organic trek, using the same method.

 

First I could not find a complete organic hydro friendly nutrient system, so I made my own eventually. I also experienced root rot. Not in just one plant, but all at the same time. Not just with store organic nutrients, but my farm ones too.

I want to warn you of the spread of disease when we piggy back connect a nutrient supply, especially with organic style in mind. IF an issue happens, it may to all plants in the tray , instead of a single plant.  just lookin out.....need more trays?????

[semicaregiver]

Grass,  

 

Agreed on the potential for problem spreading from just one plant to all.  Been there done that and as a result stopped.  My problem was not with organic nutes.   Tried that once and everything turned to sh..t almost immediately.   Problem I had was root rot w/ inorganic nutes.    Reservoir temp would edge up to upper 70's low 80's.  Room temp was controlled to 78.  At that time I was using eight airstones in a 70 gallon reservoir plus a 1000 gph pump circulating water in the reservoir to insure all the nutes stayed well mixed.   The circulating pump and the airstones were definitely adding heat to the system.

 

I am hoping that the octopot set up will eliminate the heat being added by the recir pump and the airstones.   I am still not a believer in being able to eliminate the airstones, but each of the two plants I grew produced 4 z's each.   The roots looked terrible and at least one of the reservoirs seemed to have (based on smell) gone anaerobic but yield was fine.   And all this was in a totally uncontrolled environment, i.e. no co2, no air exchange, high ambient temp (80+), old light bulb.  

 

My goal, like yours is reducing my daily work.   Tending dozens of octopots seems only slightly better than tending dozens of soil pots.   I would like to be able to go away for a three or four day weekend without worrying about stuff.   And I might even entertain a fantasy of going away for a week.   Setting it up the test will take a week or two, I want to be a little more serious about it and need to clear out the storage room I used and add a window A/C for the summer temps.  Hopefully I will get it all done in the next two weeks.

[pic book]

i mentioned it previously a while ago in another thread, but here i go again.  In winter 2013, I ran 24-hour recirc with organic nutes (hydrolysized garbage fish from the Misssissippi River processed by SF Organics) in a 55 gallon res for 10, 27.5 gal pots, with res temp 61 F in a basement (it was winter where 55 F prevails until I add heat). Great growth, NO fish smell, no issues, no res change for 6 months, no flush, and the result was gigabantic smoke from monster plants with near solid colas.  I ran it again in 2014 but never saw the end result, on may 5, 2014 perverted cops came shopping at my grow and took the babies.

[pic book]

BTW, those cops are now downtown at the Federal building buried under a mountain of charges and get their day in court in June.

[semicaregiver]

"61 degree reservoir temp"  makes all the difference in the world.   I had thought about adding a chiller back then, but felt that all I was doing was adding more technology, things to break and cost.    At that point I dropped all the technology and went with KISS soil.

 

Thinking back I should have monitored the reservoir temp in my first octopot experiment.   I will make a point to do this in my next set up.   

 

I guess I am most fascinated about the fact that one octopot reservoir seemed to have gone anaerobic, the roots looked terrible, but the plant turned out fine, wtf is going on here?

[trichcycler]

late fail ?  maybe that octo had more/less good/bad bacteria in the little cup to start with?

 

I now fill the little cup with perlite or grow rocks instead of dirt for good sleep. If I had an issue with root rot at this stage the first thing I'd do is

replace a few inches of dirt with perlite in the bottom, if that didn't do it, I'd go back to adding air, and that would do it.

 

since only one of the plants was infected I'd say this was not an octopot issue, or the octopo exacerbated the infectious conditions.

[trichcycler]

some Querkle rejects;

 

 

Almost done buying octopots! I think one more box of them will do it for me. It doesn't get any better than this for me. I've seen hem at all the grow stores I've been to, and one of them seems to be an "Octopot Store" according to a grow store owner, with the whole floor full of them flying off the shelves. I wonder if their recent sales success  is a direct result of our forum activity and reviews? Would be nice to see him join here so we can wear out his shoulders with adda boys. 

[trichcycler]

Ok, two more cases, then I'm set, for now. But wait, I think I have one spot on the floor in the veg room, without moving a darn thing. I'm going to put one special

Grape Stomper in it and sit back. Yep, I know, if all woks well, I'll need a couple more cases, again.

 

I don't like bubbler cloners, and use an old school disposable dome, little medicine cups, clonex, and rapid rooters. Roots show within the week.

They do need to be watered every other day in my veg room, and again, this has stifled my octopot inspired vacation time. My vegging plants are all in one gallon

bags now and they hold enough water(for my 10 inch vegger's) for several days. Back to the clones.....I used a tall mason jar, two holes in the lid, one silicone tube to an air stone inside the water filled jar, another silicone tube stuck in the other hole, run to the dome. !  touchdown! Rooters stay moist until the jar runs dry, over a week.

 

[t-pain]

what you are saying is that you should contact the makers of octopot to make an octopot mini for seedlings and clones?

[semicaregiver]

I think what grass is saying is he just built an air powered humidifier.