Mpp Legalization Meetings

[+Malamute]

Written by Chuck Ream,  former Milegalize board member.

 

 

(MPP was represented by Rob Kampia , director, Karen Okeefe, state policy director, Heather Azzi, initiative drafting attorney, and Lissa Satori, - a patient advocate whose job is to build a strong coalition for legalization here in Michigan.)

1) The MPP legalization campaign in Michigan is not a sure thing, Rob says that he is "90% committed"...but there must be "general consensus on certain basic principles" - "Colorado might be a good starting point."

2) A "petition drafting timeline" was handed out – that they will stick to. I will photograph it and send it.

3) Heather said that they are accepting ideas for the petition, right now. If somebody wants something please write it down and send it to them, please. General public comments will be accepted  until January 2 – the target date for general feedback.
An initiative drafting committee will be put together, mostly lawyers but some others, who will work a huge number of hours, for no pay, week after week on this until it is right. This will take hundreds of hours of expert free labor.

4) Rob - The feedback will be structured – there will be key points in time where something will be done. We will be time efficient.

5) In California MPP cooperated with accomplishing both expungement of records and post conviction release.
However, the "single subject rule" must be very seriously adhered to - and the law on this is different from state to state.

6) A controversial issue could be included in a campaign, but that it makes it much more expensive to win. It might cost an extra two or 3 million to get it passed – since it is expensive to get the supporting information out to the voters.

7) MPP does not like the word "legalization", since it is much more likely to lose than something which is called "taxation and regulation". Sometimes the state government, like in Nevada, will stick the word legalization in there anyway.

8) The infighting champions of America: Rob says the winners are California – the champion, closely followed by Ohio and Oregon. Thank God Michigan is not at the top of this category.

9) The details of the package must not stop us from winning our ultimate goal of ending prohibition.
 If we can do an initiative that is 90% what you want then you should settle for it and win it.
 Rob strongly emphasized that things can be changed and tweaked later, for much less money. It can be easier to change it later then fight about it at the beginning.

10) There will not be a fixed nanogram limit on driving, there must be evidence of impairment.

11) Michigan's new dispensary laws take effect December 20. Extracts and concentrates will be be legal but must be labeled.

12) Question: why try to do this in 2018 rather than in 2020?
a) we are not committed to doing it.
b) we need something good to do for the next two years.
c) Analysis: he thinks Michigan will be a high turnout election in 2018 with the current turmoil around here and Schuette on the ballot. .. And we can win it. They evaluate a matrix of about five factors.
It also depends a lot on how much money the bad guys raise.

13) Question: does polling justify a Michigan race in 2018?
Common wisdom says that you have to be five or six points up in the polling to actually win the vote. Rob says this is not true and he has the data to show it.
 He says that polling needs to be done in Michigan to find out what the people specifically want.
When a question is phrased in a general way it will poll much more highly than it does when any sort of specifics are tossed in.

14) Question: will you work with MILEGALIZE?
 Answer: "we hope so, we don't need everyone but we want to partner with MILEGALIZE  and look forward to these conversations."

15) Question not asked: is there any chance MPP will be trying to quickly get signatures in the spring of 2018 rather than using the summer of 2017?

16) Rob says that the Michigan campaign will cost five to $6 million to do the whole thing – over two years. MPP has ways of raising money – it is what they do. In Arizona the opposition spent hugely and defeated legalization. It will be a problem in Michigan if the opposition puts up a couple of million.

17) Including employment protections causes the State chamber of commerce to contribute and come out strongly against legalization. They can be a significant opponent.

18) Question: Could there be any way that medical marijuana caregivers would be able to sell into the legal adult use market?
This would seem to be impossible since the requirements of some sort of seed to sale tracking would make it hard for caregivers to comply.
Heather, in a sign of how hard they are trying to work with us, even came up with some idea of how caregivers could get some sort of small scale license and comply with some rules and sell into the adult use system. I was pretty astonished, and did not fully understand it.

19) Question:" I have heard Rob criticize the marijuana industry strongly for not helping with politics – now I see that the industry started to contribute well in a few places. What has happened".
Rob: "the industry started to change about a year and a half ago, first in Arizona then Nevada. MPP is improving their initiative drafting so that it is fair to current operators and won't wipe them out – and new operators can also come in. This rewards those who have put in all the hard work but does not create an oligopoly.
When we write the initiative so that small business owners can see that they will be part of the industry, they will contribute to the politics.

19) A strange thought: Robin thought that some business owners had been afraid of MILEGALIZE because there is no limit on how big a grow can be,... they were afraid big guys would take over. This is a new one for me.

20) Next steps:
a) The MPP Michigan Facebook page has just been published – and this will be heavily used for communication! Please spread the word, they are looking for public input.
b) We must form the drafting committee.
c) after January 2 please have some patience, drafting will be going on fulltilt. Please don't ask for things that will cost a huge amount of money to pass.

21) Question: how much money is MPP going to bring to the table in Michigan? Answer: We never know where all the money is going to come from when we start, but we have proven our ability to raise money.
If we get agreement we can make it happen. All the money necessary to actually get the signatures must be present or pledged  up front before beginning the signature Drive.
(once we make the ballot it is easier to get money for advertising during the campaign.)

22) We must be encouraging donations and getting a list of volunteers so that we can hit the ground running in April. MPP plans to start signature gathering in late April. I will send out a picture of their initial timeline.

The MPP group has one more presentation in Ann Arbor tonight and then in Detroit tomorrow afternoon. I hope that anybody who comes will be ready to help out!
 

[+Malamute]

Friday, December 16 at 6:30 PM – 8:30 PM
OM of Medicine
112 S Main St. Suite B, Ann Arbor, Michigan 48104 <--- address may be off?

Saturday, December 17 at 2 PM – 4 PM
University of Michigan Detroit Center
Ann Arbor Conference Room
3663 Woodward Ave., Ste. 150, Detroit, Michigan 4820

[t-pain]

think the one tomorrow will still be on during the snow apocalypse we might get?

 

How do we contact? email? where?

[bax]

7) MPP does not like the word "legalization", since it is much more likely to lose than something which is called "taxation and regulation". Sometimes the state government, like in Nevada, will stick the word legalization in there anyway.

 

yeah, because nothing MPP has done is considered legalization. marijuana is still illegal in all 50 states via STATE LAWS. yes even california, colorado, washington etc etc

Edited December 16, 2016 by bax

[cristinew]

If they make it legal for people in pain and on opiates  to use it that would be great.  

[t-pain]

opiates, that's all still federal dea licenses for doctor's and pharmacists

[medmanmike]

I attended the MPP meeting in GRnlast night. I concur for the most part with Chuck's comments. I didn't "hear" a couple of the points exactly as Chuck did, but for the most part they're inconsequential at this point.

 

I came away from the meeting hopeful. Officially, the MPP staff were cautious in saying they were hopeful to be joining forces with MiLegalize and building a new coalition moving forward, but individually and privately they seem to believe it will happen (joining forces).

 

On a related note, there was a Cannabis Industry consultant in attendance. I spoke with this person after the meeting and asked what they were telling perspective growers who want to obtain a lincense under the new laws what it would cost to set everything up: Upwards of $500K! And, there is already a lot of out of state money gearing up to come in. If this accurate, how can the average guy/gal even begin to think about competing?

[+Malamute]

Commercial isn't about little guys.  Has it ever been?

 

I think that number is a bit high though depending on what license you are going for.

[+Malamute]

I was unable to make it due to like blizzard and ice and cold and wind and.... yea. :-)

[+Malamute]

I have looked at about $300,000 to truly open a grow.  Get 10 caregivers to pitch in $30,000 each and go for it.

 

Business takes investment.  Make it an employee owned corporation. Could probably stretch to 15 Caregivers/patients to invest $20,000 each.

 

If you don't even have that much money to invest,.... why the hell did you ever think you could open a business anyway?

[shishka]

I attended the MPP meeting in GRnlast night. I concur for the most part with Chuck's comments. I didn't "hear" a couple of the points exactly as Chuck did, but for the most part they're inconsequential at this point.

I came away from the meeting hopeful. Officially, the MPP staff were cautious in saying they were hopeful to be joining forces with MiLegalize and building a new coalition moving forward, but individually and privately they seem to believe it will happen (joining forces).

On a related note, there was a Cannabis Industry consultant in attendance. I spoke with this person after the meeting and asked what they were telling perspective growers who want to obtain a lincense under the new laws what it would cost to set everything up: Upwards of $500K! And, there is already a lot of out of state money gearing up to come in. If this accurate, how can the average guy/gal even begin to think about competing?

When you say new laws are you talking about the new medical laws or the proposed new rec laws? I mean taxation thru regulation laws.

[Wild Bill]

On a related note, there was a Cannabis Industry consultant in attendance. I spoke with this person after the meeting and asked what they were telling perspective growers who want to obtain a lincense under the new laws what it would cost to set everything up: Upwards of $500K! And, there is already a lot of out of state money gearing up to come in. If this accurate, how can the average guy/gal even begin to think about competing?

 

I'm glad to see some realism for a change. Nobody believed that the people doing the growing were BIG business, not Mom and Pop operations selling a pound or two to dispensaries.

 

Now maybe we can all understand who wants to do away with caregivers and why.

[+Malamute]

Comparatively, Michigan has passed one the cheapest entry points for commercial licenses in the country. It has the tightest restrictions to keep the facilities the smallest for growers.  Most states have no plant restrictions or 5000 plants or so. 

 

Maryland, just for a license is $125,000 for growers. $10,000/$5000 in Michigan.

 

Heck Illinois:

 

Cultivation fees:

• Non-refundable application fee for a cultivation permit: $25,000

• Once issued a permit, $200,000 permit fee for the first year

• Annual permit renewal: $100,000

• Applicants were required to demonstrate $500,000 in liquid assets and a $2,000,000 bond to the Department of Agriculture

 

And that's all before start up costs and upkeep and overhead.

 

 

Michigan has the lowest entry point for growers and cheap entry costs.

 

 

 I am not sure what people thought when they thought Dispensaries would help the home growers. hahaha.

 

And zap, 3 month operating cost gets ya nowhere. You will need at minimum 8-12 months operating costs plus demonstrating a large asset pool if needed. I think people aren't thinking about this properly. And by properly, I mean in a general manner consistent with every other state that has gone commercial.

[+Malamute]

Also, those fee's and such were recommended by the commercial lobby in Michigan.  They could have asked for much lower fees and specified asset amount  proof.

 

But, you know,...

[medmanmike]

I was unable to make it due to like blizzard and ice and cold and wind and.... yea. :-)

Driving in from the Lakeshore was a mess!

When you say new laws are you talking about the new medical laws or the proposed new rec laws? I mean taxation thru regulation laws.

The laws just passe, that take effect Dec. 20, 2016.

I have looked at about $300,000 to truly open a grow.  Get 10 caregivers to pitch in $30,000 each and go for it.

 

Business takes investment.  Make it an employee owned corporation. Could probably stretch to 15 Caregivers/patients to invest $20,000 each.

 

If you don't even have that much money to invest,.... why the hell did you ever think you could open a business anyway?

Directed at me? I have no interest in obtaining a license to grow. Just curious as many on this site have batted around a $100,000 figure to start a grow bus under the new law.

[medmanmike]

When you say new laws are you talking about the new medical laws or the proposed new rec laws? I mean taxation thru regulation laws.

New med. laws that go into effect on Dec. 20, 2016.

[bax]

do you think the limited plant numbers will mean the whole system is not profitable ? aside from secure transport.

[+Malamute]

Directed at me?

 

 

It was a general statement. :-)

[+Malamute]

do you think the limited plant numbers will mean the whole system is not profitable ? aside from secure transport.

 

 

There is definitely money to be made,.... (but only so mucch in this state) but I think it is less than people think and less people will make much because there isn't as much business as people think.

 

Its still a good amount and some will do great, but most will fail.

[+Malamute]

Legalize market is different though. 

[semicaregiver]

I attended yesterday's presentation by MPP in Detroit.  

 

Turnout was light, 25 people not counting the MPP team.  I understand GR was similar and AA had about 40.   Politically, Coleman Young IIseemed to chair the meeting.  Not an impressive turnout for the beginning of a Statewide effort.    With the small size, the meeting was rather informal and they asked everyone to introduce themselves.   The majority of the people seemed to be with MiNorml.   MiLegalize had two or people there, Matt and Chuck Ream.  Maybe that counts as only one based on the first post in this thread.

 

Their first order of business was to determine if there would be any real chance of a competing legalization initiative, either from the public or the legislature, i.e. Ohio.    There did not seem to be any real response from either Matt or Chuck so it was hard to know the status of MiLegalize.

 

MPP's timeline was very aggressive and I believe it is published on either their website or the new one they created for Michigan (sorry did not write it down).   

 

1. Determine if there is interest and competition by 1st wk of Jan. 2017,  

2. If go, do polling and focus groups to identify hot buttons and support.  Complete by end of Jan.

3. Legal teams to create Initiative in February 2017

4. Ballot question and approvals from State by end of March

5. Signature Collection  April 2017-October 2017

 

They made it clear that the wording of the initiative would be focused on what would be acceptable to the non user.    While there was some confusion about this.  They explained that for the question to pass, they needed the non user to buy into legalization.   The basic theme of the effort seemed to be, "legalize and treat it like alcohol".  How that would be nuanced and what sort of infrastructure it would imply would need to be sorted out after the vote.   

 

Specific questions regarding taxes, home grows, number of plants, etc were all deflected pending the outcome of whatever polling they would be doing.

[bobandtorey]

I was also their just to find out what would be coming down for Michigan  The basic theme of the effort seemed to be, "legalize and The basic theme of the effort seemed to be, "legalize and treat it like alcohol".". i agree 

 

  legalize and treat it like alcohol was a way for people to talk about cannabis to a non-user Imho 

[cristinew]

I like the wild west of Detroit.. lol.  Drove down 8 mile more  pot shops than

gas stations,

Edited December 18, 2016 by cristinew

[shishka]

I can only imagine that if a "legalization" effort were to pass, our state legislature would have no problem getting rid of the medical program.

[bax]

I can only imagine that if a "legalization" effort were to pass, our state legislature would have no problem getting rid of the medical program.

this has not happened in colorado, maine, alaska, washington, DC, oregon, etc etc