Something I Have To Say, Or Type As It Were....

[Nemosity]

Please don't make this thread about money. It's not my intention at all to go into that subject as it has been whipped to death. Let's move on, please. However, in the course of reading through all those posts one blatant glob of fungus jumps off the page at me and I have to speak up for the good of us all. Please remember that although I may be brutally honest at times, it comes from the heart and is not meant to demean, demoralize, or create debauchery. It is only meant to inform and enlighten, for the good of us all. As always, my thoughts are my opinions and could very well be out in left field. However, on the chance that they are not, I feel that remaining silent would be a far greater evil than what I am about to say, again....

 

 

"YOU CAN'T CHARGE FOR CONTROLLED SUBSTANCES, I.E. MM"

 

"A registered primary caregiver my receive compensation associated with assisting a registered qualifying patient in the medical use of marihuana. ANY such compensation shall not constitute the sale of controlled substances."

 

So, you can't sell MM to your registered qualifying patient. Your patient cannot sell MM to any other patient. You cannot sell MM to another caregiver. It goes against the very plainly and all too vague MMMA.

 

So, don't ask your caregiver how much a sack costs, because that is illegal for them to sell you MM. Don't sell it to anyone, treat it just like your prescription medicines.

 

Don't post about how you sell for X amount and your patient sells it for 3x the amount.

 

Don't post about your caregiver that you feel ripped you off because he/she charged you X amount for an ounce.

 

Don't Mt.Dew and whine about how much MM costs, unless you are talking about your grow room and what it costs you to get it up and running and maintaining it.

 

I hope that those of you that can read will understand what I am saying here. Not trying to be an donkey, but sometimes being brutally honest is a necessary evil.

 

Anyone that believes I am wrong, please let me know I'm way off base here. As I read it, it's pretty clear. However, I do have an open mind and if a precedent has been set already for this, I would like to have that information. I don't want things to be this way and I intend to fight until God takes me out of here. However, we have the MMMA act and that's about it for right now. It should not be illegal for this, but the way the law is written, this could come back to bite some people on the arse. I don't want any of you or your family's to go through the court system, where the woman holding the scales is peeking under her blindfold. God bless and keep you all, and your familys.

 

Just my two cents on this very public board.

 

---Nemo

[TheSmartestManAlive]

Please don't make this thread about money. It's not my intention at all to go into that subject as it has been whipped to death. Let's move on, please. However, in the course of reading through all those posts one blatant glob of fungus jumps off the page at me and I have to speak up for the good of us all. Please remember that although I may be brutally honest at times, it comes from the heart and is not meant to demean, demoralize, or create debauchery. It is only meant to inform and enlighten, for the good of us all. As always, my thoughts are my opinions and could very well be out in left field. However, on the chance that they are not, I feel that remaining silent would be a far greater evil than what I am about to say, again....

 

 

"YOU CAN'T CHARGE FOR CONTROLLED SUBSTANCES, I.E. MM"

 

"A registered primary caregiver my receive compensation associated with assisting a registered qualifying patient in the medical use of marihuana. ANY such compensation shall not constitute the sale of controlled substances."

 

So, you can't sell MM to your registered qualifying patient. Your patient cannot sell MM to any other patient. You cannot sell MM to another caregiver. It goes against the very plainly and all too vague MMMA.

 

So, don't ask your caregiver how much a sack costs, because that is illegal for them to sell you MM. Don't sell it to anyone, treat it just like your prescription medicines.

 

Don't post about how you sell for X amount and your patient sells it for 3x the amount.

 

Don't post about your caregiver that you feel ripped you off because he/she charged you X amount for an ounce.

 

Don't Mt.Dew and whine about how much MM costs, unless you are talking about your grow room and what it costs you to get it up and running and maintaining it.

 

I hope that those of you that can read will understand what I am saying here. Not trying to be an donkey, but sometimes being brutally honest is a necessary evil.

 

Anyone that believes I am wrong, please let me know I'm way off base here. As I read it, it's pretty clear. However, I do have an open mind and if a precedent has been set already for this, I would like to have that information. I don't want things to be this way and I intend to fight until God takes me out of here. However, we have the MMMA act and that's about it for right now. It should not be illegal for this, but the way the law is written, this could come back to bite some people on the arse. I don't want any of you or your family's to go through the court system, where the woman holding the scales is peeking under her blindfold. God bless and keep you all, and your familys.

 

Just my two cents on this very public board.

 

---Nemo

 

 

I think its a good point, but it seems like we are already past what you describe as in every caregiver add has price per gram or OZ. Also , dispensaries are now advertising and preforming their services on a weight scale. Not saying i like it, infact i dont at all, but it seems to have already happened. Its not something you can really change just because Nemosity says so. I do agree too, thats how the law is and i wish it remained the way you discussed.

[rambozo420]

It comes down to the patient what they want.

A.Pay a monthly wage to their caregiver no matter what come rain or shine good or bad not nowing exactly what their getting.So if something bad happens and the crop is ruined.Pay me anyway LOL

Or

B. Pay a certain amount for a certain amount after it has passed a taste test

Its a no brainer to me

[Nemosity]

My only concern is the caregivers getting popped recently that seem to be fully legit. Is this a loophole that the PA's and LEO's are using? As I read it, you can't pay for MM, just for the services of being a caregiver. If Dispensaries are operating and selling MM by weight of bud, and nothing comes from this, than thank you God! I just don't want to see people getting caught in a snare because of the wording of the law. By all means, don't do something because my dumb donkey tells you too. lol It was just something to keep in mind, is all. But if we have progressed past this issue and it's a moot point now, than it's just a weight off our shoulders.

 

----Nemo

[+Dizledot]

OK now I can stick my foot in my mouth being this is such a sensitive subject anywhere it's brought up....I don't charge a fee, I've never charge a fee, not even what it cost to set up the room. What I have is a donation box that my patients leave what they feel is a fair donation for my time to tend their plants. However I do charge a fee to make medibles but that fee is only for the product used to make the medibles. If they leave a little more for my time it's appreciated but not expected. My patients are on fixed incomes and can't afford the prices mentioned within the discussion about prices let alone pay their bills on time or at all.

 

 

[rambozo420]

There is no reason why it cant be both or anything that is agreed upon.Thats whats wonderfull about the law as long as the patients happy thats all that matters

[herb green]

ANY such compensation shall not constitute the sale of controlled substances

 

What does that mean?

 

Some folks seem to think it means you can't "sell" it...

 

But if you hand someone marijuana and they hand you money...what is it ?

 

I think it means the compensation (money/whatever)shall not constitute the sale of controlled substances

 

It means giving marijuana to your patient and recieving compensation is not a crime

 

It does not constitute the sale of a controlled substance ...which would be a crime

 

So in other words....its legal

 

If you want to dance around the semantics fine... In California its called renumeration here its compensation

 

Whatever

 

Lets not tell each other what to do...to each his own on how to deal with it

 

Some people call it a donation...

 

Or...compensated at a rate of X amount per/oz

 

Others have more complex ways of figuring it out

 

Whatever way...as long as they hold a valid card and its less than 2.5 oz... I think youre fine!

[Captain Obvious]

 

 

"A registered primary caregiver my receive compensation associated with assisting a registered qualifying patient in the medical use of marihuana. ANY such compensation shall not constitute the sale of controlled substances."

 

---Nemo

 

You are not understanding the True meaning of the Act.

 

ANY such compensation shall not constitute the sale of controlled substances."

 

Does not matter how you charge for your Services, ANY such compensation shall not constitute the sale of controlled substances.

 

Pretty Simple Really, the Act was Written to Protect Patients and Caregivers and Everyone Else with the AD.

[Moss]

It's semantics, that's all it is. It was worded the way it was in the legislation to avoid dealing with the topic of "selling" something prohibited under federal law.

[Kingdiamond]

What really needs to be stopped altogether are the members claiming that patients looking for a cheaper price only do so to resell their medicine at a higher price

 

SERIOUSLY?

 

Do you people think thats such a great idea to put in print anything that the anti cannabis politicians can use to get more restrictions put in place to make it even more difficult to aquire our medicine .

 

The politicians take this to the voters and say see even the registered patients say that laws are being broken so it must be true!

 

What were you guys thinking ?

[Irishgreen]

Herb, Captain and Moss have it right.

 

It is meant to clarify that payment for services, electricity, etc. Is not to be construed as payment for a controlled substance. (Can't be used against you)

[Nemosity]

Ok, I think I got it now. Thanks for clearing it up for me. The way I was reading it, or maybe I was reading in to it, made it sound AFU. Thanks everyone for the posts, and for helping me clear some cobwebs. haha!

[+Silverblue]

A caregiver I talked to doesn't charge- I don't remember about donations, I don't think there was any mention of it.

 

I think everyone should be very careful what they say here and anywhere because even if no one's actively monitoring, it does get recorded and can be dug up by anyone, including legal people, (LEO types, lawyers, etc.) It's sad that this is true but it is and it's no fun knowing- wondering what happened to free speech and privacy but they are illusions, there are privacy groups working on this but like anything else, progress is slow. Yeah we can say stuff but regardless if it's being recorded or listened to or not, it can still come back to bite us in some way which really sucks. When people talk, (this includes texting too), others listen, and pass that along, they may explain it in their own words and may change the message unintentionally, then that goes to someone else, and someone else, and soon, the original message gets distorted, not intentionally but it can lead to a lot of confusion and inaccurate info. An opinion may be taken as fact, anything could happen. Seeing it written in print doesn't always help, especially because when a law is written, it comes down in legaleez that's not easily understood by the ordinary citizen, which I think is done on purpose to confuse us, so, if the law is vague then we should be extra careful if we're not sure. Whether we see it in legaleez or plain English. If the MM law is vague, find a lawyer who can clarify it, then ask another one, maybe even ask another one. Does it say anywhere anything about donations? It seems to me it's clear that if any money changes hands, it's seen as payment for MM. To get around this, I'd ask the caregiver if I could buy something needed for the grow room, or at least take them out to dinner. That way no money changes hands, and you still help your caregiver.

 

All I know is, the MM community needs to work together. The law is still new and needs some work but it's a start and those who are benefiting from it are lucky there are enough compassionate people out there who voted for it, even though many of those voters wouldn't use MM themselves.

 

Silverblue

[Highlander]

Herb, Captain and Moss have it right.

 

It is meant to clarify that payment for services, electricity, etc. Is not to be construed as payment for a controlled substance. (Can't be used against you)

 

I believe that you and Herb Green have the right idea. I believe that the act does not say it is illegal for a CG to sell marijuana to his patient, rather it is impossible to sell it. If a CG hands a patient marijuana, and the patient hands the CG money, the action cannot be considered a sale.

 

Construed means " to understand or explain the sense or intention of usually in a particular way or with respect to a given set of circumstances"

 

So you can't define the act of a CG/patient exchanging marijuana for money as a sale.

[stxchick]

I haven't chimed in for a while - but this is something that has bothered me for the last year or so on this site. We insist that MDCH follow the law as it is written and they do their part to keep up on cards, etc. But we have no problem talking about transactions as if they were dope deals. The perception (semantics as someone put it) based on our talk does make it seem (to unknowing people or LEO construing it)that we are selling weed to our patients or that our patients are buying weed. When people talk about price/oz, etc. it may have the "understanding" that it's for the services of the caregiver - but to those people who aren't inside the circle of mmj it sounds like (and can be a flag to LEO)we're selling marijuana.

 

It's the public perception that will make or break us in the future of this movement. Not saying we need to "put on" for them, but we need to (IMO) represent like this is what it is - a payment for services, that we are truly medical patients receiving significant benefit from this plant that grows free, and that we are not drug dealers, but in a relationship akin to a herbalist/natural med provider and a patient.

 

On another note - did you all see about the newest thing in Cali - a Multi Level Marketing Medical MJ company starting up.

[Huckleberry Slim]

"May receive compensation.. " to me i interpret that as money, and I'm pretty sure any court of law will also. Thats my opinion. But here's the dictionary defination, that uses a $2000 as an example of compensation in #3.

 

com·pen·sa·tion   [kom-puhn-sey-shuhn] Show IPA

–noun

1.

the act or state of compensating.

2.

the state of being compensated.

3.

something given or received as an equivalent for services, debt, loss, injury, suffering, lack, etc.; indemnity: The insurance company paid him $2000 as compensation for the loss of his car.

[phaquetoo]

Dizledot you seem like a very good compasionate c.g, I wish i was in your network or you would join mine once it is up and running!

 

as far as all the other posts, you all make very good pointes and some of you are reading different things than others..kinda like the bible? we can all read the same paragraph and get a diff interpitation from it! I have to agree the law states no compensation for mm. but for services, I have posted a few times about how I would be a c.g, I would like at least 2 of my 5 future patients to be terminal and low income, I want to be able to give them mm and do errands for them or clean their darn toilets, no im not lookin to make a livin on making people a lil more pain free, im looking to be compasionate, if the 2 low income patients come to me and say they can only afford a 1/4 I want to be able to give them the whole thing for what they say they can afford, I have been standing in line at pharmacy's and see these poor old folks have to put their meds on a charge card, just so they can supposedly stay alive on pharmicuticals, I have ins, and im sure most seniors also do, but most dont have prescription coverage, my medicare prescription co, did not pay for most of the meds i was written. so I had to pay cash for them. and it is not cheap, and now because of all the meds i have done in the past, I have to do another type of medication so I can acheive intense intimacy! do you have any idea what that stuff cost? 6 pills 86 bucks! thats darn near 13 bucks a pill from the drug store!?! the cheapest drug store i could find..the meds that made me this way only cost me 20 buck for 120 of them, and when i was taken off of them cold turky i almost died!

 

nuff said!

 

Bye the way good post! and I dont think you are off base or telling people what to do, you put something out there that no one will ever be on the same page! just like, catholics. baptist, prodestans, jews.muslims, and who ever!

[stonecrowe316]

Please don't make this thread about money. It's not my intention at all to go into that subject as it has been whipped to death. Let's move on, please. However, in the course of reading through all those posts one blatant glob of fungus jumps off the page at me and I have to speak up for the good of us all. Please remember that although I may be brutally honest at times, it comes from the heart and is not meant to demean, demoralize, or create debauchery. It is only meant to inform and enlighten, for the good of us all. As always, my thoughts are my opinions and could very well be out in left field. However, on the chance that they are not, I feel that remaining silent would be a far greater evil than what I am about to say, again....

 

 

"YOU CAN'T CHARGE FOR CONTROLLED SUBSTANCES, I.E. MM"

 

"A registered primary caregiver my receive compensation associated with assisting a registered qualifying patient in the medical use of marihuana. ANY such compensation shall not constitute the sale of controlled substances."

 

So, you can't sell MM to your registered qualifying patient. Your patient cannot sell MM to any other patient. You cannot sell MM to another caregiver. It goes against the very plainly and all too vague MMMA.

 

So, don't ask your caregiver how much a sack costs, because that is illegal for them to sell you MM. Don't sell it to anyone, treat it just like your prescription medicines.

 

Don't post about how you sell for X amount and your patient sells it for 3x the amount.

 

Don't post about your caregiver that you feel ripped you off because he/she charged you X amount for an ounce.

 

Don't Mt.Dew and whine about how much MM costs, unless you are talking about your grow room and what it costs you to get it up and running and maintaining it.

 

I hope that those of you that can read will understand what I am saying here. Not trying to be an donkey, but sometimes being brutally honest is a necessary evil.

 

Anyone that believes I am wrong, please let me know I'm way off base here. As I read it, it's pretty clear. However, I do have an open mind and if a precedent has been set already for this, I would like to have that information. I don't want things to be this way and I intend to fight until God takes me out of here. However, we have the MMMA act and that's about it for right now. It should not be illegal for this, but the way the law is written, this could come back to bite some people on the arse. I don't want any of you or your family's to go through the court system, where the woman holding the scales is peeking under her blindfold. God bless and keep you all, and your familys.

 

Just my two cents on this very public board.

 

---Nemo

not to be a wisen highmer;but no one SELLS,it a simple donation for thier time and power to run thier rooms,im not in to the higher prices,but it still cost money.im not a cg for that reason.but the word is donate.....not sell

[westmich]

SELL - is not a dirty word. Why is this one of those topics where half of the MM community seems to want to jump on LEO's side of the argument.

 

No matter how you structure your arrangement between patient and caregiver, at the end of the day cannabis and money exchange hands. That is a sale. It is not an illicit sale or the sale of a controlled substance, but it is a sale nonetheless.

 

If there is an alternative method - one that is fair to patients and allows patients to make apple to apple comparisons - I would love to hear about it.

[+Dizledot]

Dizledot you seem like a very good compasionate c.g, I wish i was in your network or you would join mine once it is up and running!

 

as far as all the other posts, you all make very good pointes and some of you are reading different things than others..kinda like the bible? we can all read the same paragraph and get a diff interpitation from it! I have to agree the law states no compensation for mm. but for services, I have posted a few times about how I would be a c.g, I would like at least 2 of my 5 future patients to be terminal and low income, I want to be able to give them mm and do errands for them or clean their darn toilets, no im not lookin to make a livin on making people a lil more pain free, im looking to be compasionate, if the 2 low income patients come to me and say they can only afford a 1/4 I want to be able to give them the whole thing for what they say they can afford, I have been standing in line at pharmacy's and see these poor old folks have to put their meds on a charge card, just so they can supposedly stay alive on pharmicuticals, I have ins, and im sure most seniors also do, but most dont have prescription coverage, my medicare prescription co, did not pay for most of the meds i was written. so I had to pay cash for them. and it is not cheap, and now because of all the meds i have done in the past, I have to do another type of medication so I can acheive intense intimacy! do you have any idea what that stuff cost? 6 pills 86 bucks! thats darn near 13 bucks a pill from the drug store!?! the cheapest drug store i could find..the meds that made me this way only cost me 20 buck for 120 of them, and when i was taken off of them cold turky i almost died!

 

nuff said!

 

Bye the way good post! and I dont think you are off base or telling people what to do, you put something out there that no one will ever be on the same page! just like, catholics. baptist, prodestans, jews.muslims, and who ever!

 

 

Thank you.... I have a big heart, that's why I'm involved with my township.

[stonecrowe316]

SELL - is not a dirty word. Why is this one of those topics where half of the MM community seems to want to jump on LEO's side of the argument.

 

No matter how you structure your arrangement between patient and caregiver, at the end of the day cannabis and money exchange hands. That is a sale. It is not an illicit sale or the sale of a controlled substance, but it is a sale nonetheless.

 

If there is an alternative method - one that is fair to patients and allows patients to make apple to apple comparisons - I would love to hear about it.

oh i hear ya and understand what ur saying,but donate is the less of the 2 evils,when ya say sell,they think taxes,when ya say donate,they think non profit,but i guess everyone looks at in thier own way,noone is wrong,just different ...lol...

[Captain Obvious]

A Farmer gets paid for his/her services and the amount of the payment is determined by the amount of product the Farmer has Harvested. Nobody Compensates a Farmer who does not prouduce, except our Goverment of course.

 

If the LEO's or PA's though Caregivers were breaking the act by determining their Service Fees with Finished Product Weights we would have seen many test cases by now.

 

The Act was written too Protect the People from the Unjustified War on the People (Drugs).

[westmich]

oh i hear ya and understand what ur saying,but donate is the less of the 2 evils,when ya say sell,they think taxes,when ya say donate,they think non profit,but i guess everyone looks at in thier own way,noone is wrong,just different ...lol...

 

I think it has more to do with perception. I think a lot of patients, unfortunately, have only had access to cannabis from that guy in that part of town. Now that they are legal and proud, they want to redefine the perception of getting it. Or at least that is what I am guessing. I just don't see the point of semantics if everyone in the conversation agrees it has no meaning. Who are we using the words for? LEO?

 

As far as taxes, caregivers are selling it as medicine or possibly agriculture. There are no sales taxes in either case. As far as donations, unless you're a 501, income is income is income. It has to be claimed.

[stxchick]

I think it has more to do with perception. I think a lot of patients, unfortunately, have only had access to cannabis from that guy in that part of town. Now that they are legal and proud, they want to redefine the perception of getting it. Or at least that is what I am guessing. I just don't see the point of semantics if everyone in the conversation agrees it has no meaning. Who are we using the words for? LEO?

 

As far as taxes, caregivers are selling it as medicine or possibly agriculture. There are no sales taxes in either case. As far as donations, unless you're a 501, income is income is income. It has to be claimed.

 

The taxes thing never crossed my mind. To me it's the perception - not of LEO necessarily, but we are coming into an election time and for them and for us perception is everything. You need to understand that be it the candidates or those we are trying to win to our side of the cause - perception - how they view us/this movement - (and unfortunately) how others will perceive THEM regarding their stance on this movement (which goes back to the perception of the whole marijuana (medical or not) perception.

 

To me personally it isn't an issue. I talk to everyone about marijuana - and am about the most non-stereotypical marijuana activist/user/representative you would find. But to not address some of these things that affect the perception of those others out there that are looking at us and still going "stoners", "losers", "just a ruse to use MJ" - THOSE are the people (voters) that we need to change our talk for. This is not cowtowing, this is making it what it really is - medicine and caregivers who follow the law as it was written. We are above board in our actions and transactions.

 

We may not need them to vote to pass a medmj law - they did that before. But we DO need them to respect the community and understandingly need their help in electing the right candidates that will support this law and not fight against it.

 

Just my thoughts.

[christinax4]

good analogy phaquetoo, with the bible, etc...