Dte Offering Free Electricity ?

[maxmax]

 

 

1 pound per plant can be done standing on your head. In fact if you can't pull 1 pounds off a plant indoor, your skills are novice at best. The problem I see most people facing is impatience and improperly designed growing areas. With 12 plants a grower should easily harvest 1 pound per month dependent of course on strain selection. This can be done in any choice of substrate. The key is large pots for single plants and 90-120 day veg times to fill the net of a 4 x 4 tent. The grower must commit themselves to 6 months per plant. In hydro this time can be reduced dramatically. In the end it comes down to room design and patience in order to reach these yields. The current format I am examining uses 12 plants per 4 x 4 in hydro and is a super-fast way to get 16-20 ounces per harvest from a 4 x 4 in 9 weeks from an 8 week strain under 600w. The drawback of course is the high plant count. We must all realize that growing requires much time and money invested in order to reach the premium yields and and qualities so many other growers around the world obtain. So far as outside plants go, I regularly see plants that exceed 10, 12, and sometimes reach 15 pounds per plant. I would feel like a complete failure and stop growing completely if I was forced into production levels that I have seen discussed. In the end it all comes down to the ambition of the grower, the knowledge possessed by the grower, and the ability to combine both in order to maximize production.

In hydro this time can be reduced dramatically Veg time yes but flowering you can't change that part

I do agree in most of what you said the grow room is one of the most important things

Always plan for more room then you need it's A lot easier to put up a Partition until the plants grow bigger then to rebuild your hole room

[Restorium2]

I don't agree about California, Restorium, and I don't think that is the best path.

Definitely not the best path for total freedom of the patient. But what would make you think that would happen here if it didn't in California? Sweet dreams are made of these...

[maxmax]

 

You didn't read what they do in California did you?( NO i did not )Usually things that happen out west make their way across the nation. Usually. It's not direct precedent but it does provide you the path of least resistance. It's probably going to be like that here. And since you already have to have your doctor on the stand at a section 8, it's right there in your face anyway. The prosecutor will ask the question of the doctor if you were over.

The doctor can not answer that ?

[maxmax]

 

Definitely not the best path for total freedom of the patient. But what would make you think that would happen here if it didn't in California? Sweet dreams are made of these...

who am I to disagree

[Restorium2]

The doctor can not answer that ?

Why not? They do it out west. It's common practice. You guys are talking about federal regulations as restricting this but aren't they under the same restrictions as us federally?

[Restorium2]

who am I to disagree

You followed me, cool.

 

I believe this is one of those times that maybe we should just work from a position of strength with your doctor-in-tow. Even though it might be somewhat restricting, it's a much stronger stand in a society that's used to a doctor directing dosages. You say what you need, the doctor agrees, you are bulletproof. The officer, prosecutor, jury, whoever, nods there approval. Winning.

[Restorium2]

Yes, because all medical cannabis states have gone exactly like California.

You have a point there, although the sarcasm is heavy. Not a good idea on here. Some don't see it.

 

We will have to see. Fight it. I think it's coming.

[bobandtorey]

 

You have a point there, although the sarcasm is heavy. Not a good idea on here. Some don't see it.

 

We will have to see. Fight it. I think it's coming.

Yes we are fighting but we our being warren down and could use some back-up

 

Know anyone

[peanutbutter]

You didn't read what they do in California did you? Usually things that happen out west make their way across the nation. Usually. It's not direct precedent but it does provide you the path of least resistance. It's probably going to be like that here. And since you already have to have your doctor on the stand at a section 8, it's right there in your face anyway. The prosecutor will ask the question of the doctor if you were over.

 

This was fought all the way to the United States Supreme Court. It's not a fight about to start, it's already been fought and it's over.

 

Doctors can talk about benefits and harms of marijuana with a patient.

They can recommend a patient try/use it.

 

They can NOT prescribe it. If they do, the DEA is allowed to take their license away.

 

Now the example you show in CA is not where a doctor says to use a set amount. Rather the doctor states that the amounts required for this patient isn't going to work within normal limits under CA law. Different.

Edited February 1, 2013 by peanutbutter

[CaveatLector]

Where is the disconnect peanut? Recommending that a pt use a certain amount or in a certain way is NOT a prescription. If a doc tells you to take 2 aspirin and call him in the morning has he prescribed aspirin? No.

 

Saying that a doc's recommendation is "like" a prescription doesn't change the fact that it is NOT a prescription.

[mibrains]

expert testimony from a doctor in court on amounts to use? would that not be hearsay? unless the doctor is also a patient... no clinical data exists to support any conclusions..

[rhinoman]

expert testimony from a doctor in court on amounts to use? would that not be hearsay? unless the doctor is also a patient... no clinical data exists to support any conclusions..

right on mibrains. that should actually be a priority.

[purple pimpernel]

 

That is untrue. In California, it's written right into the law that if you are over a doctor can testify as to your useage to keep you legal. Just like here with a section 8. You will have to have your doctor testify.

 

 

 

It would be something the two of you worked out in your doctor to patient relationship. This would be for those patients that need more and might have to use section 8. It would be a position of strength to work from if you thought you were going to be over all the time. Tell your doctor and he could even put it in the notes.

 

this is exactly true^^^^^^^

 

Dr Courtney does just this for pts he sees.....and will testify in court to efficacy and dosage-and his 'prescribed' recommendation

and now most good Drs in California do this exact same type recommendation....based somewhat on Courtney's work -

 

my recommendation from him always had cannabanoid dosage on there....in grams per day to effect an uninterrupted supply...

are you aware of how much cannabis it takes to create a couple gr of canabanoids....?....per day-

and he would equate that =plants needed..

 

 

this is what made Dr courtney popular while helping pts/CGs stay safe in concern to overages ....as you call it here--

 

[/quote from a doctor in court on amounts to use? would that not be hearsay? unless the doctor is also a patient... no clinical data exists to support any conclusions..[/size][/color]

[/quote

 

if Dr Courtney comes to court for you....usually charges are dropped after he does expert testimony to doses and frequency and amount of plants neede to maintain that...

he backs all of his testimony with scientific data ....

 

I wish more Drs here would understand this practice and try and help overgrow instead of undergrow.....

there is not enough good medicine around ever!

 

so that is not true in Cali mibrain...read Courtney's many many publishings on clinical data-

 

 

[CaveatLector]

Is there any medication for which a doctor tells a pt, "Well this may work for you. I don't know how much or how often so, well, just experiment."?

 

I would point out that if a doctor tells a pt to "experiment," or "self-titrate," that is still technically giving the pt advice as to how much to use. "Start small and titrate up."

[mibrains]

what i am referring to isn't about recommending an amount to try...

 

what i am referring to is offering testimony as an expert witness.

 

how can a doctor that's licensed in the US quote scientific data that doesn't exist?

 

the journals are empty with data on strain use as it applies to symptom management.

 

there's only 2 places in the United States where a research facility can obtain cannabis for medical testing that will be able to be published.

 

the feds have not allowed any research specific to strain analysis as it relates to use amount for symptom management....that i have seen... (that doesn't mean it isn't out there )

 

many other countries have passed us by leaps and bounds.. hence the reason Sativex and Marinol were developed and produced in foreign countries. we are being passed up in the research and development areas...

 

i don't mean to suggest a doctor is not the first place to start the journey to a happy cannabis patient... however their tool-chest is still empty as far as quotable data.

 

i would like to help change that.

 

a doctor can tell a chrons patient... hey.. i know a chrons patient who used strawberry cough ( a sativa dominant cannabis strain) and an ounce a week helped with this particular set of ailments in the same situation as yours...

they can not however say 1 ounce of Strawberry cough helps people with chrons.

 

there is no published scientific research to suggest it does... other than personal testimony...which is second hand to the Doctor because it was reported by a patient and not observed.. and therefore wouldn't it be hearsay?

allowed in a doctor patient relationship...yes i think probably... not so much allowed as a expert witness in a court of law.

 

i am not sure at all on this... and defiantly am not picking any fights...

 

what i am suggesting is we need this data...

 

we need this research

 

we need the government to allow cannabis research to happen in this country without the restrictions they have been enforcing.

 

there is a court case in front of the US Supreme Court i am pretty sure about this...

[mibrains]

excellent data...

i had him bookmarked and forgot the name

 

i see he went to college in Michigan..woot woot..

 

 

http://www.cannabisi...l.org/about.php

 

His area of special interest is in the dietary uses of cannabis to achieve 250 to 500 mg of cannabinoid acids, which he considers as a conditionally essential nutrient in the diet of individuals from the 4th decade on. He has presented on high dose non-psychoactive dietary uses at Cannabis Therapeutics in Rhode Island April 2010, the Institute of Molecular Psychiatry at the University of Bonn in June 2010, the Institute for Advanced Studies at The Hebrew University of Jerusalem in November 2010, and the International Cannabinoid Research Society conference in Chicago in July 2011.

 

that say's a lot...

[purple pimpernel]

Is there any medication for which a doctor tells a pt, "Well this may work for you. I don't know how much or how often so, well, just experiment."?

 

I would point out that if a doctor tells a pt to "experiment," or "self-titrate," that is still technically giving the pt advice as to how much to use. "Start small and titrate up."

 

 

no you misunderstood me.....I should have explained better---

 

dr Courtney does not recommend experimentation...no no no

 

he writes you a recommendation based on a very thorough questionnaire and examination of your usage and needs

then he quantifies those needs thru CBD dosage

 

him telling you how much to use is not in the equation--

no you would tell him your usage

I.e. ....oral...internal....topical....smoking ....vaping....tincture.....juicing....etc

 

the pt confers 'their' usage and amount and based on that dr Courtney writes you a recommendation

 

in my situation my wife was dying of cancer---terminal

 

we normally would be able to have 25 plants outdoors....legal in some counties in California

..with her terminal diagnosis we were able to have dr Courtney write us for 35 plants ....giving us enough leeway to make tinctures and edibles as that was my wifes proffered method of ingestion...

 

we would burn up at least 10 lbs or so making tinctures and concentrates for her condition the last 3 yrs she was alive

 

 

 

there were a lot of people taking advantage of his recommendations and I believed he stopped writing that on most rec unless you had been a long time pt in his care--

 

and yes mibrains Dr Courtney is at the cutting edge of the science with regards to this plant---

 

if you want data....he would be the guy that would know or could direct you to the right avenue for scientific studies...his expertise is canabanoids period- and he lectures worldwide now

 

he is from A2 and hopefully will be seeing folks here eventually....I hope-

Edited February 2, 2013 by purple pimpernel

[mibrains]

my condolences. PP..

 

 

based on what i have read..

i would welcome Doctor C and his wife...

 

i pray we can all soon freely work with the scientific community to further the advancements of this wonderful plant.

 

it is such a rewarding endeavor to help someone.

 

i look forward to the research and development studies that are going to happen...

 

one day...

 

maybe cannabis extract pills will be as common and as available as antacid.

 

who knows..

 

i know this much... it seems to be able to shrink gleoblastoma cells.. so until shown otherwise i am always going to be on board for the research..

[purple pimpernel]

^^^^^^^^^^I urge you to watch the video I posted in the California section....the panel video-

 

Dr hergenberger(??) or?? in the panel discussion tells about the infant baby cured with RSO of an inoperable brain tumor--

this dr works with Courtney ....

 

the video is a little dry but there is a lot of good discussion in there on latest developments that could benefit the whole mmj community--

in Cali and beyond....also if you can sit thru it the discussion by the SC lab folks on the THCA and what they have learned..

 

these folks are light years ahead in understanding and promoting the many benefits of the plant--

 

and most of them are approachable and willing to network and help to raise the vibration of the community ...with just a few fone calls-

Edited February 2, 2013 by purple pimpernel

[mrd]

Is there any medication for which a doctor tells a pt, "Well this may work for you. I don't know how much or how often so, well, just experiment."?

 

I would point out that if a doctor tells a pt to "experiment," or "self-titrate," that is still technically giving the pt advice as to how much to use. "Start small and titrate up."

 

Tons many psychiatric meds are hit and miss.

[bobandtorey]

my condolences. PP..

 

 

based on what i have read..

i would welcome Doctor C and his wife...

 

i pray we can all soon freely work with the scientific community to further the advancements of this wonderful plant.

 

it is such a rewarding endeavor to help someone.

 

i look forward to the research and development studies that are going to happen...

 

one day...

 

maybe cannabis extract pills will be as common and as available as antacid.

 

who knows..

 

i know this much... it seems to be able to shrink gleoblastoma cells.. so until shown otherwise i am always going to be on board for the research..

 

I wish we could think like you we used to but the courts our wearing us down

[phaquetoo]

 

Providing a patient good quality medicine and expecting a fair donation in return does not make anyone a drug dealer .

 

 

It has nothing to do with not helping others its a sense of entitlement that people get nothing in life is free if it was free to grow than maybe what you say could be a reality but we all know its not.

 

Like i said if someones indeed of low income i do what i can but its created a culture of everythings free how do you expect a grower to legally recoup costs from being so generous everyone should foot the bill for others seriously ?

 

realy if a c.g had 3 pt's who could afford to make a decent donation a month and 2 that were realy poor! you could prob get the 3 to pay and give it to the 2 that dont have any money! That is just my thinking, now in my case, I have 1 pt I just wanted to start growing again, I have an awsome c.g my self, but I wanted more control over the strains and the scraps! and just something different now and than, and I thought once I get all my poop in a group, I could easily take care of another pt and not charge them, I also like to give it to people who need it but cant afford, it, Now on the other hand, If you wind up gettting a pt who has been getting their mm from an ilegal dispense, they can afford to pay a c.g what ever that c.g wants, it would have to be half of what the despense is getting for it, and I havent heard of any despenses giving customers free oz's every month, lets see maybe if ya pay 350 amonth for an oz, you could get a punch card, once you buy 10 at 350 a month and spend 3500 bucks you get a free zip, after i purchase 10 lbs from my tobaco store i get an lb for free!

 

Peace

Jim

[ozzrokk]

Is there any medication for which a doctor tells a pt, "Well this may work for you. I don't know how much or how often so, well, just experiment."?

 

I would point out that if a doctor tells a pt to "experiment," or "self-titrate," that is still technically giving the pt advice as to how much to use. "Start small and titrate up."

 

Not disagreeing with what you are saying on what a doctor can and cannot tell a patient but I do have medicine from a U of M doctor and it was prescribed in that exact manor. He said it may or may not work for you but we will start experimenting with frequency and dosage and see what we come up with. Exactly as you described.

[phaquetoo]

Interesting. Does section 4 tie specific plants to specific patients? Such that it is impossible to "reassign" the resulting meds? (b) A primary caregiver who has been issued and possesses a registry identification card shall not be subject to arrest, prosecution, or penalty in any manner, or denied any right or privilege, including but not limited to civil penalty or disciplinary action by a business or occupational or professional licensing board or bureau, for assisting a qualifying patient to whom he or she is connected through the department's registration process with the medical use of marihuana in accordance with this act, provided that the primary caregiver possesses an amount of marihuana that does not exceed: (1) 2.5 ounces of usable marihuana for each qualifying patient to whom he or she is connected through the department's registration process; and (2) for each registered qualifying patient who has specified that the primary caregiver will be allowed under state law to cultivate marihuana for the qualifying patient, 12 marihuana plants kept in an enclosed, locked facility; and (3) any incidental amount of seeds, stalks, and unusable roots. Does "for each registered qualifying patient" mean that the plants are strictly for a specific patient? Or is it more general than that? I agree w/your conspiracy standpoint though, and I've tried to warn people for close to four years now. If a CG gets busted for dumping overages, how many people here really believe that he won't throw his patients under the bus. I can't tell you how many patients have said to me in an email "sign me up as your patient and give me a free oz. per month and sell the overages to whoever you want, I don't care." If the end action (dumping the meds) is indeed a crime, then there is no way such a patient wouldn't be a co-conspirator. And a busted CG will likely drag the patient down too.

 

Hey High! lol, you give me 4 oz's a month and when I assign you as my c.g we will call the 12 plants yours and not mine

 

I couldnt resist, the 12 plants i assigned my c.g to grow are his, i dont call them mine, Im not gonnna get em back if he or I quit each other lmao, and the 12 plants my pt assigned me doesnt mean they are hers, nothing is hers bawahahahaha, well I guess she can get what ever she wants off me any how she has all the money and the kitty!

 

Peace

Jim

[Ms Chocolate]

Hey kd, why dont ya stuff a bag full of dried fan leaves. And say thats what ya get for free.

I would love for someone to freely hand me a bag of dried leaves, stems, and other "trash material"