Supreme Court Ruling - McQueen - Compassionate Apothacary

[+Malamute]

Please link to the comment you are responding to.

 

I was observing the ruling helped caregivers a lot.

 

Also that the added protections to the caregiver, came at the cost of removing perceived practical safety from patients.

 

Some people will physically suffer as a result of this ruling. That would be patients. The suffering is one of the costs in exchange for protecting the caregiver.

 

In my book, it's patients first.

 

Shouldn't you be complaining to the people that wrote this law this way? Marijuana Policy Project(MPP) witht he help of Dykema Gossett law firm?

 

That is who you are actually mad it here. The court simply interpretted what most of us thought about this law from the start. We seen this law as it was, not how we wanted it to be. Trust me, if i had written it, it woul dbe MUCH different. ;-) And we would not be dealing with most of these issues. But hey, when i get a million bucks to blow on a initiative, i guess i get to write it then. :-) But i do not nor did anyone in Michigan. So MPP got to write it and write it half lame they did. But it is still one of the bestest medical marijuana laws in the country.

[torpid420]

This is the type of plan I suggested in 2009. The problem I see with this now is in the last sentence:

 

The term “medical use,” as defined in § 3(e) of the Michigan Medical Marihuana Act (MMMA), MCL 333.26423(e), encompasses the sale of marijuana “to treat or alleviate a registered qualifying patient’s debilitating medical condition or symptoms associated with the debilitating medical condition.”

 

This means for the alleviating the patient’s own debilitating medical condition.

 

Sure, and it would -- but that patient might have excess, and just like how caregivers have done it before, so long as it only leaves in the hands of a qualifying patient. If that patient also provides caregiver services, they are helping to treat and alleviate another patient's ailments as their caregiver. Point being is, it may at least stall for some time until a new ballot initiative to make dispensaries legal at the bare minimum gets before the voters, and I hope in 2 years. Point being is, there's so many patients/caregivers right now that going after small groups requires far more resources and manpower. Storefronts are easy pickings.

[GregS]

Sure, and it would -- but that patient might have excess, and just like how caregivers have done it before, so long as it only leaves in the hands of a qualifying patient. If that patient also provides caregiver services, they are helping to treat and alleviate another patient's ailments as their caregiver. Point being is, it may at least stall for some time until a new ballot initiative to make dispensaries legal at the bare minimum gets before the voters, and I hope in 2 years. Point being is, there's so many patients/caregivers right now that going after small groups requires far more resources and manpower. Storefronts are easy pickings.

 

There is no excess. There is enough to meet needed requirements. And it will be this way until and unless the laws are changed.

 

Do you understand??

Edited February 10, 2013 by GregS

[+Malamute]

I predict a price increase at the cg level, and further scarcity of good cgs.

 

I think these are the real world implications.

 

Um, that is absurd.

 

If caregivers were going to raise their prices wouldnt they have already done it to match the outrageous prices dispensaries were always charging?

 

No they didnt. Prices won't change.

[shishka]

 

 

Um, that is absurd.

 

If caregivers were going to raise their prices wouldnt they have already done it to match the outrageous prices dispensaries were always charging?

 

No they didnt. Prices won't change.

IDK. Wholesale vs retail. There is no more retail. Or is there no more wholesale?

 

Depends who you know right?

 

 

Prices will be effected. Economics

[Celliach]

IDK. Wholesale vs retail. There is no more retail. Or is there no more wholesale?

 

Depends who you know right?

 

 

Prices will be effected. Economics

 

How and why will prices be effected?

[GregS]

How and why will prices be effected?

 

They will respond to whatever market forces emerge, to include any change in scarcity and whatever the market will bear.

[Dlo]

My wife and I are caregivers, and I know a hand full of others. I can't think of a reason for a caregiver to raise prices., other then ...

[+Malamute]

It’s not about who may be against the MMMA, how is for the Act and the patients, how is in for the money, how is able to get the medication, or what backdoor might open. The point is that we have a law that allows the legal medical use of marihuana. That used is limited, but it is 100% greater than what we in Michigan had in 2007.

 

Instead of fighting and debating what was tried, reputed, and/or rejected; we need to understand and embrace what we do have. Many patients may now search for a caregiver. Some of these caregivers will be used to grow, other to procure. Those patients with needs will some how be attended.

 

Just know that - Slow and steady wins the race!

 

Agreed Ms Chocolate.

 

We must train more patients to become caregivers, and more caregivers to become better at what they do.

 

It is a really straight forward and simple system set forth in the law. We just have to make it work as efficiently as possible. Because if we don't.... O lordy me...haha... THEY will take care of it for us. O yes they will.

 

Noone wants that , so... lets take this law MPP wrote and helped pass for us and implement it as is with some passion and compassion.

[+Malamute]

Economics?

 

And what economics is this we are talking about?

 

Don't you think caregivers would have been charging $15-$25 gram like dispensaries these last few years if "economics" were the reason. I guess if dispensaries was the "going price" why did caregivers not charge that much then?

 

Because it is called ripping people off. Any caregivers i have seen trying to charge dispensary prices has been laughed at and the patient just goes to one of the dozen caregivers they have a choice of.

 

This prices going up crap is just the dispensary/commercial folks spreading fear. All nonsense.

 

And if there a few people that were caregivers that were "illegally" selling marijuana to dispensaries and now suddenly they want to sceew over their patients,.... well, we don;t need them. That just means you and me have to train another patient to be a caregiver to make up for such losers.

[GregS]

Economics?

 

And what economics is this we are talking about?

 

Don't you think caregivers would have been charging $15-$25 gram like dispensaries these last few years if "economics" were the reason. I guess if dispensaries was the "going price" why did caregivers not charge that much then?

 

Because it is called ripping people off. Any caregivers i have seen trying to charge dispensary prices has been laughed at and the patient just goes to one of the dozen caregivers they have a choice of.

 

This prices going up crap is just the dispensary/commercial folks spreading fear. All nonsense.

 

And if there a few people that were caregivers that were "illegally" selling marijuana to dispensaries and now suddenly they want to sceew over their patients,.... well, we don;t need them. That just means you and me have to train another patient to be a caregiver to make up for such losers.

 

Call it ripping people off if you must. I do not agree and ask that you consider further thought. I do understand that economic and business principles play regardless the reason. There are some variables that keep it interesting,mostly on the people end, but by and large these principles drive economic conditions for good or for ill, or for no reason except the fact that they work in tandem with other influences to come to one of any number of conclusions. Therein lies the fun. You indicated, from what I have seen, a similar understanding regarding at least one other issue, and that is the dead children you think are necessary and unavoidable collateral damage in the gun argument. Plz correct me if I am wrong.

 

i see no reason to presume that costs will rise to dispensary levels. In keeping with cg to connected pt xfers there is less cost for plant (pun not intended) and equipment. With no storefront to operate and incur debt, those costs are avoided. Granted, any change in availability will play into the supply curve, and have a proportional and modifying effect on the demand curve, causing prices to stabilize at approximate levels, and move with predominant improving or declining trends in response to a change in either or all curves, at levels that work best in the totality of circumstance, and it remains to be seen what the range will be. It is primed and ready to go. I am on board.

 

There is good news in this opinion in that patients reserve the right to access their cannabis by growing their own and if need be to find a source otherwise. I cannot agree more that the single best method is to grow yer own, have worked to teach people to grow, and will not hesitate to continue in that. Notwithstanding, there will be many who do not, for any number of reasons, grow. Negotiated terms are engaged in with every transaction, whether for aw shucks or hard aszed biznezz reasons. If there is a workable market to provide required needs at a reasonable value it will succeed. If not it will fail. There will be isolated instances of resonance and incidence within an adaptive range and in wide degree throughout.

 

It does not get much simpler than Econ. 101, or maybe quantum physics.

 

What I enjoyed best in my career has been business and project startups. This is an opportunity in a freshly defined cottage industry, and many of us will approach it from that perspective. In my experience and considerable opinion, it is what I am best at. My medical tx is showing promise and options are opening up for me to become, again, productive (and with luck a pain in someones' asz); something that has been missing from my life in the past few years (thanks and gladhanding all around). It will work or people will blow smoke out their aszes. Either way, it will be one of life's little pleasures.

 

Those are all great possibilities. There is a lot of relief in having the issues more clearly defined. I am a happy man.

Edited February 10, 2013 by GregS

[+Malamute]

I consider people that charge at either near or twice as much more than the typical price of a caregiver does, to yes, be someone getting ripped off. Would you, greg, find it fair to charge people $20-$25 a gram for your medicine? I sure as hell wouldn't. I am guessing you would consider yourself ripping people off too at that price. :-)

 

So yea... it is what it is.

 

But by previous states even it shows that prices fall. The price is heading down, not up.

[beourbud]

The prices are coming down.

 

Many cg that refused to illegaly dump overages still offered Free Meds to their pts.

 

Testing, dispensaries ...that is where the Greed Thrives

 

Just say NO to testing or dispensaries

 

Give OUR Good Law a chance to work.......IT WILL

[GregS]

I consider people that charge at either near or twice as much more than the typical price of a caregiver does, to yes, be someone getting ripped off. Would you, greg, find it fair to charge people $20-$25 a gram for your medicine? I sure as hell wouldn't. I am guessing you would consider yourself ripping people off too at that price. :-)

 

So yea... it is what it is.

 

But by previous states even it shows that prices fall. The price is heading down, not up.

 

That remains to be seen. To use an overused nine dollar euphemism, it is what it is. However you, or for that matter anyone, manage your relationships will play into the numbers.

Edited February 10, 2013 by GregS

[+Malamute]

That remains to be seen. To use an overused nine dollar euphemism, it is what it is. However you, or for that matter anyone, manage your relationships will play into the numbers.

 

:-)

[mibrains]

i tend to agree...

 

prices are most likely going to spike upwards for a time...

 

first they will drop like a rock because some caregivers lost their avenues to make money...

 

then they will go up as people become more desperate to find the medication they need.

 

eventually more folks will find a way to grow.. and prices will hopefully stabilize and drop again...

 

a whole lot of patients are going to wake up next week and find out the resource they have been consistently using is gone.

 

it is a real and definable problem.

 

it will work itself out i am sure of it.. but the next few months will be trying on a lot of people who were caught unprepared.

 

we have discussed it to no end.. in here and in my circle... but many people in the real world (outside of the interweb) are going to be caught off guard.

 

i personally am prepared for either way the SC decided to rule.. i developed my plan for one way or the other. and i for one am glad they finally released the ruling... i have been waiting to see which plan to go with A or B and now we know....no more waiting. it is official.

 

there is to be no patient to patient transfers of cannabis until another case changes the ruling.

there is to be no transfers of cannabis at all outside of the patients and caregivers who are connected through the registry process..

 

not that difficult to understand or follow....

unless of course you haven't been preparing for this inevitable outcome, don't get me wrong.. i would have preferred to be able to help any patient with a card unconditionally... but the Supreme court ruled our law was not designed to protect us that way, in that capacity.

 

time to push for new legislation if you can not figure out how to follow the protections offered in the act.

 

please do not encourage others to follow ignorance.

 

people please...

 

listen to the MSC - grow your own, or hire 1 caregiver to grow it for you.

 

and by all means be safe out there...

 

i pray everyone finds help and relief.

[J4T]

how many weeks do most here think it will legally take to get meds to a new patient. if you cannot transfer pt. to pt. than any meds on the branch, curing or held in reserve for another patient are off limits IMO. So if you find you have cancer and want to become a patient it is going to be 21 business days for application and then

at least 8 weeks if I throw the smallest of seedlings in a flowering environment. What does a existing patient do if their grow or CG have problems? I would think that the same situation would apply. If I am wrong and could designate one of the plants from another patient or even provide prepared meds to new sign on, then why would anyone ever sign with a new CG who has nothing going yet? Please do not respond if your answer is to break the law as a remedy to this situation. And this is the tip of the iceberg. So while many here seem to be sitting back saying nothing changed for them I contend finding legally acquired good Meds has become so difficult for the new patient to aqquire as to be prohibitive. I agree that most patients that have been exposed to cannabis for a longer period are not feeling this decision as a huge burden but we will never win the hearts and minds of the greater populace to this cause if relief is denied to the timid and inexperienced.

[mibrains]

the 21 day rule is for section 4 protection.

 

a cancer patient.. strike that..

any patient may use the veil of protections offered by section 8 the minute their doctors rec is signed.

 

they then need to find a caregiver or grow their own... many new folks will need to find a caregiver to help them get established and up and running.

once self sufficient they should be able to go it on their own.

 

most caregivers i know... who are experienced now have a consistent supply and a perpetual harvest so signing new patients is not an issue.

 

the issue becomes finding them and connecting them to each other.

 

welcome back Compassion Clubs...

[J4T]

I, like most would prefer not being arrested and relying on section 8 as it pertains to the 21 days. my statement is that to transfer any meds produced from a plant that is / was part of another patients count is now illegal so perpetual makes no difference.

Edited February 10, 2013 by J4T

[mibrains]

that issue has not been in front of the court that i am aware of.

 

the AG may be attempting a limitation of that nature but it will not work ultimately they are destined to fail in that approach.

 

who owns which plants in a caregivers room is not at issue in this decision. nor is the manner at which a caregiver "acquires" cannabis. the SC said a caregiver can only transfer cannabis to their registered patient. that has nothing to do with how it is grown, dried, processed, cured, or distributed within the sanctity of the 5 patient to caregiver relationship.

[Celliach]

I, like most would prefer not being arrested and relying on section 8 as it pertains to the 21 days. my statement is that to transfer any meds produced from a plant that is / was part of another patients count is now illegal so perpetual makes no difference.

 

What, do you have little name tags on each plant explaining who that plant is for?

[Northern Lab]

What of a caregiver with no plant rights? Where is said cg going to acquire meds?

[Celliach]

What of a caregiver with no plant rights? Where is said cg going to acquire meds?

 

I'm assuming you won't be able to unless you were already growing plants that were legal for you or another patient.

[Northern Lab]

 

 

I'm assuming you won't be able to unless you were already growing plants that were legal for you or another patient.

 

That seems to be the case here. Then what is the specific purpose of a caregiver with no plant rights?

[Restorium2]

That seems to be the case here. Then what is the specific purpose of a caregiver with no plant rights?

When you get back from chemo, and you are all shaky, they roll the joint for you.