Supreme Court Ruling - McQueen - Compassionate Apothacary

[mibrains]

a patient cannot as of yesterday transfer cannabis to anyone..with or without money..

 

Ever.

 

they can only have cannabis transferred to themselves. a one way street.

[Northern Lab]

But I had to make extract in order to stay under weight, or just start throwing out good medicine.

 

Zap, sadly, I am treating every request for extract from here on out as a sting attempt.

[t-pain]

btw if anyone has lots of extract and doesnt mind relying on sec8, i'd be interested in some of it.

 

edit: doh! sting attempt fail!

Edited February 9, 2013 by t-pain

[Highlander]

You still have to wait the 21 days.

 

Where do you get 21 days? Change Forms aren't even discussed in the Act itself, and the Rules don't tell us either.

 

R 333.119 Changes in status; notifications; requirements.

Rule 19. (1) In order to update registry information for a qualifying patient or primary caregiver, the registered qualifying patient, registered primary caregiver, or registered qualifying patient's parent or legal guardian, as applicable, is responsible for notifying the department of a change in any of the following:

(a) The registered qualifying patient's name.

(b) The registered qualifying patient's address.

© The registered qualifying patient's primary caregiver.

(d) The registered qualifying patient's legal guardian.

(2) The department may notify a registered primary caregiver by certified mail at the address of record within 14 days of any changes in status including, but not limited to, both of the following:

(a) The registered qualifying patient's termination of the individual's status as primary caregiver or designation of another individual as the registered primary caregiver.

(b) The end of eligibility for the registered qualifying patient to hold a registry identification card.

(3) If the department is notified by a registered qualifying patient that the registered primary caregiver for the patient has changed, the department may notify the initial primary caregiver by certified mail at the address of record that the caregiver's registry identification card is null and void and of no effect.

(4) If a registered qualifying patient's certifying physician notifies the department in writing that the patient has ceased to suffer from a debilitating medical condition, the department shall notify the patient within 14 days of receipt of the written notification that the patient's registry identification card is null and void and of no effect.

 

Why read a waiting period into this, and if there is a waiting period, what is it?

 

If you say that you have to wait 21 days when adding a caregiver, then by the same line of reasoning, you'd have to wait 21 days after changing your address. There is nothing in the Rules to suggest that the Change Form is any sort of application requiring review and approval.

[Celliach]

have one of your patients sign up as a CG to another patient.

then transfer it to your patient.

 

if you knowingly let your PT transfer your medicine to another person you may be involved in an illegal sale......and a conspiracy. Still it will be hard to prove that you knew the medicine was being tranferred to someone other than your registered PT.

[mibrains]

I don't understand??????

 

sorry cel..

 

rest asked me to ask a lawyer to get the answer to my inquiry.. i was asking you how you felt.. and why you didn't think caregivers were protected under section 8 in this limited set of circumstances.

 

in the end

 

i feel that the SC said it boils down to intent.

 

just as always

 

are you with the transaction attempting to alleviate the patients need for medical relief?

 

that is the question that must be answered first.

 

if that answer is an unequivocal yes, then you are probably defensible in court.

[Celliach]

But I had to make extract in order to stay under weight, or just start throwing out good medicine.

 

Zap, sadly, I am treating every request for extract from here on out as a sting attempt.

 

Bummer, next time don't grow so much.

[Northern Lab]

have one of your patients sign up as a CG to another patient.

then transfer it to your patient.

 

That isn't legal either.

 

Bob, yes there is a reasonable fee for it. However, the person requesting the extraction must be present the entire time, just to ensure that everyone remains legal.

[Celliach]

sorry cel..

 

rest asked me to ask a lawyer to get the answer to my inquiry.. i was asking you how you felt.. and why you didn't think caregivers were protected under section 8 in this limited set of circumstances.

 

in the end

 

i feel that the SC said it boils down to intent.

 

just as always

 

are you with the transaction attempting to alleviate the patients need for medical relief?

 

that is the question that must be answered first.

 

if that answer is an unequivocal yes, then you are probably defensible in court.

I never said that I didn't think they were. I said that I didn't trust the courts to protect me under Section 8.

[mibrains]

I never said that I didn't think they were. I said that I didn't trust the courts to protect me under Section 8.

 

yessir..

you answered it right after.. i see that..

[bobandtorey]

 

 

I guess the new angle in distribution arises out of the lack of clarity below:

 

(b) A primary caregiver who has been issued and possesses a registry identification card shall not be subject to arrest, prosecution, or penalty in any manner, or denied any right or privilege, including but not limited to civil penalty or disciplinary action by a business or occupational or professional licensing board or bureau, for assisting a qualifying patient to whom he or she is connected through the department's registration process with the medical use of marihuana in accordance with this act,

 

What does it mean? People in the past have argued that everyone in the registry is automatically connected, but that's impossible because then the phase "connected..." would be redundant.

 

So does the connection occur when the forms are filled out? Dropped in the mailbox, arrive at LARA?

 

And does that fact that the law does not say a Change Form is an application relevant? MDCH said to me a while back that a Change Form isn't subject to the 21 day rule because it isn't an application, it is a notice. A registered patient is notifying the department of a change.

 

Assuming for the sake of argument that the Change Form is simply a notice to the department, when do patient and CG become connected? There is nothing at all in the law or rules about 20 days with a change form.

 

When does the connection occur? This is a hugely relevant question after the CA ruling and people probably looking for CGs and meds ASAP.

I would say the 20 day thing has

 

nothing to do with being legal because you are legal the day you get your Rec. IMHO

[Northern Lab]

btw if anyone has lots of extract and doesnt mind relying on sec8, i'd be interested in some of it.

 

edit: doh! sting attempt fail!

 

Lol!

[Restorium2]

That isn't legal either.

 

Bob, yes there is a reasonable fee for it. However, the person requesting the extraction must be present the entire time, just to ensure that everyone remains legal.

That's why we teach people how easy it is to make it yourself. And that's why you have a bunch of extra you can't unload. Caregivers make all they want already. It's a way to use the rest of the plants after you select the best buds for raw medical cannabis.

[Timmahh]

Same here, I don't know of any PTs suffering.

 

ofcourse you know EVERY SINGLE Patient, Registered or just Dr Recommended inyour Low Populace area, and can guarentee with your FREEDOM that NO ONE IN your area is suffering huh?

 

Funny, because I still see Daily posts on many websites of Patients in the UP being messed by the CGS or Disps in that area, Or cant find ANYONE to help them....

Yea, remember fool, ALL THE PEOPLE YOU KNOW is exactly that, ONLY what YOU KNOW.

[Celliach]

ofcourse you know EVERY SINGLE Patient, Registered or just Dr Recommended inyour Low Populace area, and can guarentee with your FREEDOM that NO ONE IN your area is suffering huh?

 

Funny, because I still see Daily posts on many websites of Patients in the UP being messed by the CGS or Disps in that area, Or cant find ANYONE to help them....

Yea, remember fool, ALL THE PEOPLE YOU KNOW is exactly that, ONLY what YOU KNOW.

 

Well you've been a fountain of misinformation here, just go back and read your past posts, so your word doesn't really hold a lot of weight.

 

I was talking about my part of the UP, not the whole thing. You do realize the UP is about half the size as the LP right? It's huge.

[mibrains]

Tim..

thats not at all a helpful post for patients.. its a personal attack.. please refrain..

[t-pain]

Assuming for the sake of argument that the Change Form is simply a notice to the department, when do patient and CG become connected? There is nothing at all in the law or rules about 20 days with a change form.

 

When does the connection occur? This is a hugely relevant question after the CA ruling and people probably looking for CGs and meds ASAP.

 

good question. any of these cases where patients didnt have CG cards (and got convicted) can be reversed...

at least until someone defines process.

 

i'm still curious about section 4 'relating' to 'medical use' wrt delivery or transportation.

really this MSC opinion is rushed and short on thoughts. no doubt there will be more cases going before them due to not clarifying anything.

 

so the MSC does not want to clarify the law?

but then the legislature wont do it.

only patients suffer due to this stupidity.

[Timmahh]

Ask and attorney about what it takes to make a section 8 case and you will understand better.

 

every attorney I have spoke to said it takes bout 2500.00 and can go up to 10 grand.

[Restorium2]

every attorney I have spoke to said it takes bout 2500.00 and can go up to 10 grand.

Exactly. And not every doctors rec is going to fly. The next person who says that you are legal with just a doctors rec should have to pay for someone elses section 8 (Bob).

[Timmahh]

Great is their a fee for doing that?

 

after this ruling there is now.

[Highlander]

ofcourse you know EVERY SINGLE Patient, Registered or just Dr Recommended inyour Low Populace area, and can guarentee with your FREEDOM that NO ONE IN your area is suffering huh?

 

Funny, because I still see Daily posts on many websites of Patients in the UP being messed by the CGS or Disps in that area, Or cant find ANYONE to help them....

Yea, remember fool, ALL THE PEOPLE YOU KNOW is exactly that, ONLY what YOU KNOW.

 

I know 2 CGs in northern MI and one in SE who can help new patients. All three would probably give the first samples free. You should direct these patients in need to this website, or paste a link here. Let's see if someone can help them.

 

This is what I mean about fixing the distribution problem. Instead of saying "the dispensaries are closed, and I know patients who can't get meds" and then throwing up your hands as if there is no solution, why don't you provide a little more detail about how a CG could find these patients. You saw them post on a different website and you took the time to come here and complain that they can't get meds but you did nothing to try to help them.

 

Between this website and Craigslist, there are far more CGs seeking patients than the other way around.

 

How about a link to these sites where patients are not getting needs met?

Edited February 9, 2013 by Highlander

[Northern Lab]

 

That's why we teach people how easy it is to make it yourself. And that's why you have a bunch of extra you can't unload. Caregivers make all they want already. It's a way to use the rest of the plants after you select the best buds for raw medical cannabis.

 

I can't "unload" it because none of my patients require it and I cannot transfer to anyone

outside of those 5.

 

Make no mistake, people want my extract, I just can't give it to them.

[Timmahh]

Where do you get 21 days? Change Forms aren't even discussed in the Act itself, and the Rules don't tell us either.

 

R 333.119 Changes in status; notifications; requirements.

Rule 19. (1) In order to update registry information for a qualifying patient or primary caregiver, the registered qualifying patient, registered primary caregiver, or registered qualifying patient's parent or legal guardian, as applicable, is responsible for notifying the department of a change in any of the following:

(a) The registered qualifying patient's name.

(b) The registered qualifying patient's address.

© The registered qualifying patient's primary caregiver.

(d) The registered qualifying patient's legal guardian.

(2) The department may notify a registered primary caregiver by certified mail at the address of record within 14 days of any changes in status including, but not limited to, both of the following:

(a) The registered qualifying patient's termination of the individual's status as primary caregiver or designation of another individual as the registered primary caregiver.

(b) The end of eligibility for the registered qualifying patient to hold a registry identification card.

(3) If the department is notified by a registered qualifying patient that the registered primary caregiver for the patient has changed, the department may notify the initial primary caregiver by certified mail at the address of record that the caregiver's registry identification card is null and void and of no effect.

(4) If a registered qualifying patient's certifying physician notifies the department in writing that the patient has ceased to suffer from a debilitating medical condition, the department shall notify the patient within 14 days of receipt of the written notification that the patient's registry identification card is null and void and of no effect.

 

Why read a waiting period into this, and if there is a waiting period, what is it?

 

If you say that you have to wait 21 days when adding a caregiver, then by the same line of reasoning, you'd have to wait 21 days after changing your address. There is nothing in the Rules to suggest that the Change Form is any sort of application requiring review and approval.

 

exactly. Celliach has ALWAYS sided with LEO. He has always sided with LET THE STATE DICTATE TO YOU how to live your life, and he like them, want you to Listen to HIS Idiocy.

[Celliach]

ofcourse you know EVERY SINGLE Patient, Registered or just Dr Recommended inyour Low Populace area, and can guarentee with your FREEDOM that NO ONE IN your area is suffering huh?

 

Funny, because I still see Daily posts on many websites of Patients in the UP being messed by the CGS or Disps in that area, Or cant find ANYONE to help them....

Yea, remember fool, ALL THE PEOPLE YOU KNOW is exactly that, ONLY what YOU KNOW.

 

If you know any PTs in the UP that need a CG, send them to the DCCC. PM me for a phone number for contact. We can help anyone on the western half of the state.

[Restorium2]

I can't "unload" it because none of my patients require it and I cannot transfer to anyone

outside of those 5.

 

Make no mistake, people want my extract, I just can't give it to them.

LOL Get real. You had the time that People VS Green was in place to give it away if you wanted to.

 

Here's a clue; Cops aren't looking for people giving it away.

Edited February 9, 2013 by Restorium2