Some Ideas Because Of The Mcqueen Ruling

[SFC]

Me personally, I was okay with dispensaries (even if I didn't believe they were legal) in the early days of the law. Then I joined up with the advocacy for our law and found out how they really feel about the rest of us. Now I am and have been one of the ones that will complain when I see them or catch them red handed throwing us under a bus.

[Northern Lab]

I do not think it's fair to lump all dispensaries into a monolithic group and then throw them under the bus.

[CaveatLector]

I do not think it's fair to lump all dispensaries into a monolithic group and then throw them under the bus.

Why? That sort of reasoning is accepted here all the time. The cops are part of a group and are collectively spoken of derisively all the time. So are the prosecutors. So are the courts. Why should it be any different for the dispensaries?

[SFC]

Unfortunately Northern most of them wear the same shoes. In the early days we offered an olive branch of sorts several times. We still are willing to, but they need to spread the word that their words will be used against them if they suggest in any way shape or form that the caregiver model is inferior.

[TheHarvester]

The cops are part of a group and are collectively spoken of derisively all the time. So are the prosecutors. So are the courts. Why should it be any different for the dispensaries?

 

I liked what you said above...

In our community we tend to embellish absolutist thinking when it's convenient, but then abandon it and demand individual distinction when it comes to the elements we find favorable. There is merit however in saying that the comments about Dispensaries trend toward generalization. Your retort captured something I see constantly as one of our communities biggest challenges. That being said, I'm just as guilty as anyone of generalizing in moments of frustration.

 

I am fond of your new avatar Cav.

[bobandtorey]

I want some of the good things that the dispensaries are enjoying, like a warning, to be seen across the board with all possibly illegal activity with marijuana. Treat everyone the same. Write them a warning or a ticket.

 

No money in it for them to do just that but we need to change it now their are no more Dispensaries in Oakland county

[Northern Lab]

Why? That sort of reasoning is accepted here all the time. The cops are part of a group and are collectively spoken of derisively all the time. So are the prosecutors. So are the courts. Why should it be any different for the dispensaries?

 

Well, I guess it's okay then. Lol.

 

 

Unfortunately Northern most of them wear the same shoes. In the early days we offered an olive branch of sorts several times. We still are willing to, but they need to spread the word that their words will be used against them if they suggest in any way shape or form that the caregiver model is inferior.

 

 

Yeah, better qualified statements would help. I don't think the true intent is to attack all caregivers, As it has been pointed out previously, The vast majority of dispensaries receive their product from Michigan caregivers.

[SFC]

Notice the first words we hear from their camp after McQueen is "Caregivers are going to jack their prices up now that their are no dispensaries".. The crap is intentional Northern.

Edited February 14, 2013 by SFC

[lawyercaregiver]

Another question for our legal minds here...

 

What risk does the patient have who purchases from a Dispensary post McQueen? More, the same, or less?

 

None. Patient is protected under section 4 as the court said, creating an "asymmetrical" relationship where the patient is immune and the seller is busted. If that does not sound right to you then we agree.

[lawyercaregiver]

Still no good ideas?

 

The dispensaries I have dealt with, around 25 or so in the last 2 years, have ranged from "Very Good" to "Exceptional."

 

How can people claim the 5 patient limit caregiver system with NO transfers, no overages, no private sales at farmer's markets, will not force Caregivers to "raise prices" NOT it will make most of them SHUT DOWN- or go underground again. It is legal for the patient, after all. They are building the conspiracy cases on the delivery services as we speak...... I swear this is all to give the cops and prosecutors something to do.

[Highlander]

Still no good ideas?

 

 

LARA has the authority to use the $10mil/year the MMMP generates to fund the program, right? Or indirectly the money is available to the program? In any event, if one convinced LARA to start an on-line Change Form system for existing cardholders, we'd be all set. Heck, even charge the $10 still. Just do it on-line. Hands-free and paperless instant Change forms...would save LARA a lot of work and they'd get the same amount of money. All of this would be funded by the participants in the program. Allow patients to "opt-in" to the electronic Change Form system if they want, or they can rely on the paper form like before.

 

The angle is to sneak through the back door. Get LARA to do this in the name of efficiency but in the process, define what it means to be "connected through the registry" in a way that allows a CG to be protected under section 4 to transfer to a patient immediately after they process the on-line form and pay the $10 fee. This is a solution that does not lie in the legislature nor in the courts. Just some new administrative rules promulgated by LARA.

[+Malamute]

 

 

How can people claim the 5 patient limit caregiver system with NO transfers, no overages, no private sales at farmer's markets, will not force Caregivers to "raise prices" NOT it will make most of them SHUT DOWN- or go underground again. It is legal for the patient, after all. They are building the conspiracy cases on the delivery services as we speak...... I swear this is all to give the cops and prosecutors something to do.

 

Um, most people have been operating that way for 4 years? Why would prices change.

 

The caregiver obviously can cut their garden by 75% the size if they arent growing for a dispensary.

 

I mean, i doubt these patients family members, friends or long known caregivers are going to charge their patients more. That is just silly.

 

All around,... silly. If there are a few jerks who only grew to take advantage of a patients plants to make money,... well... maybe they were doing this for the wrong reasons. We will simply train more compassionate caregivers who arent going to rip people off or only sell for the right price if they can illegally sell their wares to a dispensary?

 

I dont see your argument lc.

[Timmahh]

supply and demand. This MS Ruling will certainly restrict supply in short order in most of the state. Many did not worry as much prior to this ruling, do to being a CG and having a clear law that said as a CG, helping "A" Patient was Protected under sec 4. Now it is clearly NOT. this is why supply will immediately start to shrink, and like any market, when supply goes down, cost of goods goes up.

 

That is econ 101. The Reason Mi up till now had "Overages" available, whether from a CG, another Pt, or a Disp or Farmers Market, is because CGs felt safe knowing any heavy yielding grows that occurred, they were SAFE from Arrest under a sec 4, because they could Help "A" Pt, or "A" CG or other Visiting Patients without fear of arrest. So long as the med donating person was a CG, and the Receiving person was a Carded Pt/CG/VP.

 

Its not a hard fact to see coming to pass by the end of the month.

Edited February 14, 2013 by Timmahh

[OG Fire Beaster]

Most......CG's i knew used to give meds to their patients for free and get rid of overages to dispensaries to maintain uninterrupted "fresh" top quality for all. Some Pts only require sporadic amounts. Some require much much more.

 

I don't see how a CG who can provide free meds to their patients, while getting rid of overages to dispensaries where patients that would rather go to a store with larger variety can get meds, is a jerk.(while staying within weight limit) I guess I'm funny like that.

 

Prices will go up for many Pts due to this. Even if they pay 50 for an ounce, it is more than the free meds many Pts are accustomed to.

[TheHarvester]

This MS Ruling will certainly restrict supply in short order in most of the state.

 

Why would legal supply would be restricted due to the ruling?

[OG Fire Beaster]

Why would legal supply would be restricted due to the ruling?

 

 

supply and demand. This MS Ruling will certainly restrict supply in short order in most of the state. Many did not worry as much prior to this ruling, do to being a CG and having a clear law that said as a CG, helping "A" Patient was Protected under sec 4. Now it is clearly NOT. this is why supply will immediately start to shrink, and like any market, when supply goes down, cost of goods goes up.

 

That is econ 101. The Reason Mi up till now had "Overages" available, whether from a CG, another Pt, or a Disp or Farmers Market, is because CGs felt safe knowing any heavy yielding grows that occurred, they were SAFE from Arrest under a sec 4, because they could Help "A" Pt, or "A" CG or other Visiting Patients without fear of arrest. So long as the med donating person was a CG, and the Receiving person was a Carded Pt/CG/VP.

 

Its not a hard fact to see coming to pass by the end of the month.

 

 

I believe that some dispensaries will stay open and have a successful section 8 defense.

Some people will not want to fight the battle and "cut their garden size by 75%".

The perception that has been created will effect supply whether it is now "legal" or not.

 

Edit:

From what I have read all McQueen did was state that section 4 does not allow for the distribution model that some dispensaries used and the prosecutor was entitled to the injunction he/she was seeking. It was a civil case so section 8 could not be brought into it. The issue is far from settled.

Edited February 14, 2013 by OG Fire Beaster

[+Malamute]

I agree there is a chance at some sort of a Section 8 ability to avoid prosecution. A small chance, but it will be interesting to see whi it plays out against/for.

 

I assume some in certain circumstances might get lucky, and some won't. But ya never know. Too many variables at thispoint to be absolute either way.

 

I still think the best way to get some sort of commercialization is to pass a well and smartly crafted ballot initiative. It's the only way to have any control over the language.

 

But regardless, we have what we have and if people hadnt thrown all their eggs into the system not mentioned in the law, and put some eggs into the system that is within the law, almost none would be effected by this for any long piece of time.

 

So,... instead of complaining,.. how bout training some caregivers? Break 30,000 Cg's by January 1st, 2014? That seems like a smart goal for the community.

 

26,404 active registered primary caregivers

 

4000 new caregivers should be pretty easy. 15% increase isnt much to ask of the community. Teach a couple new patients while you are at it. No problem.

 

Facillitate easier mechanisms to connect patients with competent caregivers. Do you already have 5 patients? Then either train another caregiver or help connect those patients you would have helped or were previously helping to find a caregiver.

 

This is the law we were given. I say given because it was an outside group who "gave" us this law.( i subtext that many people worked very very hard to gather signatures) This law is restrictive. It kinda is until you move into Section 8, which until fully established, can be a crappshoot. The current law is HIGHLY regulated. I hear people say there isnt any regulation on this law and it is wild west blah blah. They are mistaken. This law is packed with regulations that make you jump through three hoops, juggle 12 plants, and honk a horn,.... but don't forget to keep the horn locked up and don't travel with your horn except in the trunk. Heh.

 

Just saying, the regulations are ridiculous in this law. I personally would never had put so many restrictions into this law and would have expanded protections to all reaches of housing, employment, travelling, transferring, organ transplant, anti discrimmination policies and all sorts of other stuff i know every single one of us wants. But alas,... we didnt have the 1.5 million dollars and someone else wrote it for us.

 

BUT, it passed. Yeap, it passed. Sweet Jah baby,... it passed.

 

Tis a gift. A wonderful gift. And all i see is people breaking their gift, complaining about their gift, wanting to return their gift, wanting to exchange their gift, trying to change their gift.

 

Just accept the gift. Enjoy the gift. Utilize the gift. Cherish the gift. Operate within the simple and unfortunately strict guidelines of this gift.

 

Be Safe. Keep other patients safe. Keep the Gift safe.

 

Peace ya'll.

 

Don;t make it harder than it needs to be.

[+Malamute]

Heres a question:

 

Do any of these dispensary folks feel any obligation to connect all of their customers to caregivers now?

 

Making sure what they claim to be their precious patients are taken care of?

 

Training caregivers to assume responsibility for those patients?

 

Or...

 

How about the farmers markets? Will the sellers there rally together and make sure every patient that came through their doors can get a personal caregiver to take care of them?

 

 

I think this is where the real answers and motives lie in this situation.

 

:-)

[Northern Lab]

Notice the first words we hear from their camp after McQueen is "Caregivers are going to jack their prices up now that their are no dispensaries".. The crap is intentional Northern.

 

I think it's simple supply and demand. *shrug*

 

 

 

 

LARA has the authority to use the $10mil/year the MMMP generates to fund the program, right? Or indirectly the money is available to the program? In any event, if one convinced LARA to start an on-line Change Form system for existing cardholders, we'd be all set. Heck, even charge the $10 still. Just do it on-line. Hands-free and paperless instant Change forms...would save LARA a lot of work and they'd get the same amount of money. All of this would be funded by the participants in the program. Allow patients to "opt-in" to the electronic Change Form system if they want, or they can rely on the paper form like before.

 

The angle is to sneak through the back door. Get LARA to do this in the name of efficiency but in the process, define what it means to be "connected through the registry" in a way that allows a CG to be protected under section 4 to transfer to a patient immediately after they process the on-line form and pay the $10 fee. This is a solution that does not lie in the legislature nor in the courts. Just some new administrative rules promulgated by LARA.

 

Best idea yet!

[SFC]

No concrete evidence of that occurring Northern, none. It's funny, and I guess it must be a geographic thing, but I don't know any caregivers that have been supplying dispensaries, I also don't know any caregivers that have cut back their gardens (yet) and judging by the traffic at the hydro stores business is booming. So quit BS'ing people..

[Restorium2]

No concrete evidence of that occurring Northern, none. It's funny, and I guess it must be a geographic thing, but I don't know any caregivers that have been supplying dispensaries, I also don't know any caregivers that have cut back their gardens (yet) and judging by the traffic at the hydro stores business is booming. So quit BS'ing people..

I only know one caregiver that supplied a dispensary and he went to prison, so did his wife. I know a patient that buys at a dispensary in the Burton area. He was down to buying joints from them because the prices were so high. When he heard and saw what patients can get from a caregiver he started to cry tears of joy. Actually cried tears of joy. Having a caregiver has gotten him off the dispensary ropes and now he grows more than he can use, paying it forward. It's a beautiful thing. Like a rose in a field of thorns. Like a real caregiver in place of cold, calculating, cash register.

[Celliach]

Most......CG's i knew used to give meds to their patients for free and get rid of overages to dispensaries to maintain uninterrupted "fresh" top quality for all. Some Pts only require sporadic amounts. Some require much much more.

 

I don't see how a CG who can provide free meds to their patients, while getting rid of overages to dispensaries where patients that would rather go to a store with larger variety can get meds, is a jerk.(while staying within weight limit) I guess I'm funny like that.

 

Prices will go up for many Pts due to this. Even if they pay 50 for an ounce, it is more than the free meds many Pts are accustomed to.

 

There were never any dispensaries in our area of the state and the prices here from CGs are half of what dispensaries down state are charging.

[Northern Lab]

No concrete evidence of that occurring Northern, none. It's funny, and I guess it must be a geographic thing, but I don't know any caregivers that have been supplying dispensaries, I also don't know any caregivers that have cut back their gardens (yet) and judging by the traffic at the hydro stores business is booming. So quit BS'ing people..

 

I'm not trying to BS anyone. This is my opinion.

 

If you don't know any cgs that were supplying dispensaries, you just don't know that many cgs.

 

I wonder if we'll hear complaints about greedy grow shop owners now...

[SFC]

Who wants to bet this time next year patients are stil paying on average 200-250 an oz? The supply on the ground is still heavy, it isn't going to change, contrary to what some of you with an obvious agenda would have people believe.

 

Here is the deal tho, for every lie you tell we will be here to counter you. So you better come up with some more believable lies Jack!

[SFC]

I'm not trying to BS anyone.

 

Yes you are.