Koon Decision Killed Mmj For Now. Demand And Prices In Freefall

[Dr. Bob]

darn, this is getting scary. I find myself agreeing with Rest.....again. Sound advice man.

 

Dr. Bob

[maxmax]

Looking forward to what the Supreme Court has to say about it. Maybe we will get a little slack then.

 

not going to happen

[Murph]

Dr. Bob - your comment.

 

 

"Don't mention Marinol again, it is misleading and hurts this entire community."

 

I personally would expect a little better than that --- as I am sure you have heard of off label prescribing -- and legally speaking any defense is better than no defense (even if in the end it does not work, the no defense was not going to work either). -- attempting to order people around, or restrict free speech usually gets a real nasty response here or anywhere -- sorry to be the one to tell you, but you have no more power than any other person and you would be a fool to think otherwise -- I would have thought you were better than attempting to bully someone here. It is really sad thing to see.

 

 

I personally try to be Professional and have respect for others even if I feel or know they are wrong as I realize they have the right to be so -- and I think there is a more agreeable way to sway people or convince them they are wrong (as facts sway me) as even if I disagree with them I have respect that they are a person and have feelings.

 

As for speaking for "the community," We have enough of them around (and everyone seems to want to do that and "protect") -- sadly your a fool if you think you speak for anyone other than yourself as it seems to me other people are doing a fine job speaking for themselves.

 

These types of knee-jerk responses is why this community is in tatters, has no legal protection and now cannot even drive -- doesn't matter though, you got your fee up front eh?

 

M

[+Bethany]

Everyone is scrared. I even have less people wanting to get certified. A lot of patients and caregivers alike are wanting to see the doctor, but not go through the state because of the huge TARGET that is coming, or could come.

I myself used to beleive in the law somewhat and thought that with the card, came the security of being legal, following the law and therefore staying out of trouble, but Im not any safer now.

 

Marijuana needs to be taken off the Schedule 1! Thats what needs to be done and all this bunny muffin under it would go away!

[restlesslegs]

Again, please stop conjecturing and read the literature. Here are the facts.

 

Marinol and THC from herbal cannabis are identical and thus produce the exact same metabolites.

"Because the natural and the synthetic THC are identical in all respects, it is impossible to determine the source of the urinary metabolite of THC, 11-nor-Δ9-tetrahydrocannabinol-9-carboxylic acid (THC-COOH), in a urine specimen provided in a drug-testing program."

http://jat.oxfordjou.../25/7/565.short

 

It is possible to distinguish herbal cannabis from Marinol use.

"In this study, we provide clinical data showing that THCV-COOH is detected in urine specimens collected from human subjects only after the ingestion of marijuana and not after the ingestion of Marinol (whether the latter is ingested orally or by smoking)."

http://jat.oxfordjou.../25/7/565.short

 

Smoked THC will cause a rapid increase in serum THC levels, whereas orally ingested THC will be converted by first-pass hepatic metabolism in the liver into a different psychoactive metabolite before reaching systemic circulation and thus will not show the spike in serum THC levels that is seen with inhalation.

http://www.google.co...D-JmSP8fiyl1F8w

 

The DEA regularly targets physicians writing excessive prescriptions for controlled substances that are not consistent with their intended use.

http://www.deadivers...ions/index.html

 

Is it safe to say if you ingest it you are able to drive and not risk going to jail?

[bobandtorey]

Ok, I've been asked to review this. Let's set the framework first.

 

1. I am a doctor, the only one in here. I am the only one trained in medicine, I am the expert. This is not opinion I offer, it is medical science.

2. I am NOT a lawyer, but it is my JOB to be trained in the legal framework of medicine. Again, not opinion, just the way it is.

3. This is not about people, this is about ideas. All the folks expressing their thoughts in here are good people.

 

The use of marinol for pain is not indicated. It is indicated for nausea and wasting. Don't believe me, look it up. I'm not here to teach you medicine.

 

Marinol is a schedule 3 narcotic and under the jurisdiction of the DEA and ALL prescriptions for marinol are tracked and clearly subject to investigation by the DEA and the Medical Board.

 

While the use of marinol to somehow defeat Koon and 'cloud the water' is a thought, it is a VERY POORLY constructed thought. The medical board, the courts, and doctors would think it laughable. And, even though I am strongly pro MMJ, I think it is too. It is exceedingly poor advice, and as a direct result of this absurd discussion, I have had desperate people facing criminal charges call me hoping for a miracle. It is false hope and bad advice. It ranks right up there with telling folks their grows need to be secured, but not necessarily locked. LOCK YOUR GROW....PERIOD.

 

Don't mention Marinol again, it is misleading and hurts this entire community.

 

I say this because the false hope, false security, and distracting arguments draw attention from the proper course of action. And that course of action is don't smell like MMJ when you are driving (use medibles they are healthier), don't keep your card next to your license, and don't drive for 12-14 hours after you medicate. Simple. That is the lesson of the case. Start learning lessons rather than trying to slide around them.

 

Dr. Bob

 

nausea is why i have it because all the pills i take make me sick so i have it on hand i hope i don't have to use it ever in court and it does cost $70 for 5 pills and i get mine from the V.A in the mail

[pic book]

Murph,

Hip hip horray! Where do I send $20?

[bobandtorey]

Everyone is scrared. I even have less people wanting to get certified. A lot of patients and caregivers alike are wanting to see the doctor, but not go through the state because of the huge TARGET that is coming, or could come.

I myself used to beleive in the law somewhat and thought that with the card, came the security of being legal, following the law and therefore staying out of trouble, but Im not any safer now.

 

Marijuana needs to be taken off the Schedule 1! Thats what needs to be done and all this bunny muffin under it would go away!

Everyone is scarred i am not scared but we have great Lawyers and that will help i think every one should get one are Lawyers are working hard for us to get the truth out in court w have been in court for over 3 years now and we have Oakland County on the run if any Leo get up on the stand and lies they will get caught and the jury will not be happy so if you (Leo) are reading this read my lip's we are NOT guilty

[AKenewell]

Dr. Bob - your comment.

 

 

"Don't mention Marinol again, it is misleading and hurts this entire community."

 

I personally would expect a little better than that --- as I am sure you have heard of off label prescribing -- and legally speaking any defense is better than no defense (even if in the end it does not work, the no defense was not going to work either). -- attempting to order people around, or restrict free speech usually gets a real nasty response here or anywhere -- sorry to be the one to tell you, but you have no more power than any other person and you would be a fool to think otherwise -- I would have thought you were better than attempting to bully someone here. It is really sad thing to see.

 

 

I personally try to be Professional and have respect for others even if I feel or know they are wrong as I realize they have the right to be so -- and I think there is a more agreeable way to sway people or convince them they are wrong (as facts sway me) as even if I disagree with them I have respect that they are a person and have feelings.

 

As for speaking for "the community," We have enough of them around (and everyone seems to want to do that and "protect") -- sadly your a fool if you think you speak for anyone other than yourself as it seems to me other people are doing a fine job speaking for themselves.

 

These types of knee-jerk responses is why this community is in tatters, has no legal protection and now cannot even drive -- doesn't matter though, you got your fee up front eh?

 

M

 

Murph,

I have to disagree with you on this one, he is right when he says... It's not a productive discussion when it misleads and hurts the entire community. He is trying to end this discussion. I agree with him on that point as well.

[CaveatLector]

double post

[CaveatLector]

I would add that the whole idea of getting a script for marinol with your recommendation is absurd. We already have the anti groups barking that every tom, harry, and chris is getting a card for minor problems. Should we fuel that fire by adding an off-label use of marinol for every t, h, and c? Boy that will convince the general population that the law isn't being abused!

[AKenewell]

I would add that the whole idea of getting a script for marinol with your recommendation is absurd. We already have the anti groups barking that every tom, harry, and chris is getting a card for minor problems. Should we fuel that fire by adding an off-label use of marinol for every t, h, and c? Boy that will convince the general population that the law isn't being abused!

 

Well said...

[AKenewell]

I will add I spoke with my husband about this he is a physician as well Dr. Kenewell..otherwise known as Dr. Bix. He fully agrees with Dr.Bob, and caveat lector..the marinol idea is absurd. I feel any further discussion on this is not needed as it truly is misleading this community. I myself have made several posts here to attempt to end the marinol theory so at this point if it continues I will just lock this thread.

[Dr. Bob]

Murph, I certainly agree you are entitled to an opinion and I respect that. But this is VERY bad advice and will hurt people. As a professional my job is to make sure that does not happen and I didn't mince words. What I said stands. I am sorry you didn't like it, but it is what it is.

 

The problem we had with this board is not undiplomatic posts like mine designed to stop dangerous activity. It is the need for everyone in here to chirp in on subjects they don't have proper training or knowledge to present as gospel according to them. We get going on tangents and everyone needs their say. This is not one of those times.

 

Dr. Bob

[+Malamute]

Heres a reasonable question,

 

Are there any medical conditions or situations where a blood test is too risky to be ordewred by a Judge? Such as people taking large doses of blood thinners etc? Hemophilia? etc etc etc.

[Dr. Bob]

Honestly Mal, I can't think of any. Drawing blood is a pretty benign procedure. If it is court ordered, I really don't think that it can be prevented, unless you fight the techs and then you have a whole different set of problems, and when those are resolved they will still draw the blood.

 

Dr. Bob

[bobandtorey]

I will add I spoke with my husband about this he is a physician as well Dr. Kenewell..otherwise known as Dr. Bix. He fully agrees with Dr.Bob, and caveat lector..the marinol idea is absurd. I feel any further discussion on this is not needed as it truly is misleading this community. I myself have made several posts here to attempt to end the marinol theory so at this point if it continues I will just lock this thread.

Why you anyone lock a thread it is alway good to talk it out imho

[bobandtorey]

Honestly Mal, I can't think of any. Drawing blood is a pretty benign procedure. If it is court ordered, I really don't think that it can be prevented, unless you fight the techs and then you have a whole different set of problems, and when those are resolved they will still draw the blood.

 

Dr. Bob

they will get it one way or another so i agree

[peanutbutter]

Dr. Bob - your comment.

 

 

"Don't mention Marinol again, it is misleading and hurts this entire community."

 

I personally would expect a little better than that --- as I am sure you have heard of off label prescribing -- and legally speaking any defense is better than no defense (even if in the end it does not work, the no defense was not going to work either). -- attempting to order people around, or restrict free speech usually gets a real nasty response here or anywhere -- sorry to be the one to tell you, but you have no more power than any other person and you would be a fool to think otherwise -- I would have thought you were better than attempting to bully someone here. It is really sad thing to see.

 

 

I personally try to be Professional and have respect for others even if I feel or know they are wrong as I realize they have the right to be so -- and I think there is a more agreeable way to sway people or convince them they are wrong (as facts sway me) as even if I disagree with them I have respect that they are a person and have feelings.

 

As for speaking for "the community," We have enough of them around (and everyone seems to want to do that and "protect") -- sadly your a fool if you think you speak for anyone other than yourself as it seems to me other people are doing a fine job speaking for themselves.

 

These types of knee-jerk responses is why this community is in tatters, has no legal protection and now cannot even drive -- doesn't matter though, you got your fee up front eh?

 

M

 

I deeply resent being told I can't talk about something ..

[bobandtorey]

I deeply resent being told I can't talk about something ..

Marinol are we saying we can't use that word also in the courts ? like medical marihuana in court?

[peanutbutter]

yep .. over and over again ..

 

There is merit to the conversation.

 

The good doctors have made errors about legal matters.

 

go for it ..

[AKenewell]

yep .. over and over again ..

 

There is merit to the conversation.

 

The good doctors have made errors about legal matters.

 

go for it ..

 

Let's end this discussion I insist. Fact..Your giving bad advice. I have personally given enough time to this, now Dr.Bob has given his input my husband as a physician agrees with him. Several other people have also pointed out YOUR ERRORS. Seriously like I said before be your own guinea pig if you wish but stop misleading this community. Your post's in this thread are completely absurd!!

[peanutbutter]

So does zero tolerance apply to Merinol?

[peanutbutter]

Let's end this discussion I insist. Fact..Your giving bad advice. I have personally given enough time to this, now Dr.Bob has given his input my husband as a physician agrees with him. Several other people have also pointed out YOUR ERRORS. Seriously like I said before be your own guinea pig if you wish but stop misleading this community. Your post's in this thread are completely absurd!!

 

And I've seen substantial errors when doctors try to be lawyers .. Like here on this thread.

 

Yep .. I was in error about generic natural sourced THC.

 

That doesn't make me in error about every other thing ..

[AKenewell]

I'm done countering your nonsense PB, so I will not reply to your 2 post's since I insisted the discussion end. Please move on or you will force me to lock this topic! AK