Koon Decision Killed Mmj For Now. Demand And Prices In Freefall

[CaveatLector]

I believe Marinol has an exception carved out for it. That is what makes it listed within schedule three.

Where does this exception exist? You are saying it is schedule 3 federally, state, or both?

[peanutbutter]

Where does this exception exist? You are saying it is schedule 3 federally, state, or both?

 

Both.

[peanutbutter]

It can't be schedule one. You can't prescribe a schedule one drug.

[CaveatLector]

.

[Murph]

Well as often happens, new facts makes for one to re-evaluate and if enough facts change, one needs to change their mind.

 

 

As Marinol (Dronabinol) is synthetic THC delta 9 -- it can be distinguished from Natural Cannabis by Labs and this is not an employment law issue - it is criminal law issue.

DO NOT GET CAUGHT DRIVING WITH THC IN YOU !!

 

Interesting webpage post that has many interesting facts and made me change my position:

 

http://www.fdalawblo...-part-deux.html

 

 

TELL everyone Michigan's DUID law (per se, or ANY amount) of THC and your Guilty of violating the law even if you have no impairment whatsoever

-- it is that THC is in you that is the violation and is illegal --- NOT your driving (which I know is nuts as it is supposed to be the impaired we want off the roads) and the Koon decision makes it illegal under the MMAct to drive with ANY THC in you ---ANY-- but the issue of Marinol still exists (but a lab could presumably tell the difference as one is natural and Marinol is synthetic) and I

certainly would try to use it if I had no other choice.

 

Marinol is SCHEDULE 3 Drug, so presumably cannot be convicted for having it in you, I stress presumably !! Cannot locate any Michigan case law on point.

 

SPREAD THE WORD PEOPLE as People are being denied their rights based on the BS law that does not make us any safer on the roads -- if arrested, keep you mouth shut,

and contact your attorney immediately -- everyone should be concerned about this as it just wiped out the mm law if you want to drive legally....

 

BUT no one should be scared to go to JURY trial with a novel defense, as a Jury is our Great Countries the last line of defense against unjust (not to mention ineffective) Laws as it is within the Jury's power to nullify unjust laws. Simply pleading guilty is the end of the case you cannot argue on appeal to law is unjust, ineffective and violates not only due process, but equal protection.

 

 

Pass the word -- please

M

[CaveatLector]

The reality is that most doctors will not prescribe marinol for anything other than its label use. Marinol is not cannabis and we all know that cannabis contains compounds that marinol does not. That is how the argument arose that cannabis should be legal to use medically--because it is different that marinol. Furthermore, there has been noting but conjecture that natural thc will come up as being the same as synthetic thc as far as a blood test is concerned.

 

I want input from someone who knows how the test would come out not just a lot of guessing. Furthermore, I suspect that if you claim the thc in the blood is a result of marinol use that the test will be further refined to see if it is natural or synthetic thc. Or they will test for marinol metabolites that may not be present with just marijuana use. In that way they will rule out marinol use.

 

I will reiterate that driving with thc in your system is illegal. I don't know that you reach a different conclusion just because the thc comes from marinol anyway. It is also illegal to drive with certain forms of synthetic thc in you. So the problem here can only be resolved by either removing thc from schedule 1 or the legislature developing standards.

[Cannalytics]

Again, please stop conjecturing and read the literature. Here are the facts.

 

Marinol and THC from herbal cannabis are identical and thus produce the exact same metabolites.

"Because the natural and the synthetic THC are identical in all respects, it is impossible to determine the source of the urinary metabolite of THC, 11-nor-Δ9-tetrahydrocannabinol-9-carboxylic acid (THC-COOH), in a urine specimen provided in a drug-testing program."

http://jat.oxfordjournals.org/content/25/7/565.short

 

It is possible to distinguish herbal cannabis from Marinol use.

"In this study, we provide clinical data showing that THCV-COOH is detected in urine specimens collected from human subjects only after the ingestion of marijuana and not after the ingestion of Marinol (whether the latter is ingested orally or by smoking)."

http://jat.oxfordjournals.org/content/25/7/565.short

 

Smoked THC will cause a rapid increase in serum THC levels, whereas orally ingested THC will be converted by first-pass hepatic metabolism in the liver into a different psychoactive metabolite before reaching systemic circulation and thus will not show the spike in serum THC levels that is seen with inhalation.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=7&ved=0CGIQFjAG&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cannabismd.net%2Fabstracts-and-studies%2FGrotenhermen_Clin_Pharm.pdf&ei=N0WgT9n1MI7Btgffwqi0Ag&usg=AFQjCNFYj0XZvR0HOjzD-JmSP8fiyl1F8w

 

The DEA regularly targets physicians writing excessive prescriptions for controlled substances that are not consistent with their intended use.

http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/crim_admin_actions/index.html

[Murph]

Ok l WE are all trying to get to the same place right?

We trying to help people here, So if it is yes--then the only choice is What does the DUID (Marijuana per se) Defendant have as a defense, if any?

 

I do not accept none, plead out your sunk

 

or do you Fight with a novel defense. (the only defense available today, right now). I agree it is not much....bit its something.

 

Now, there is no way I would being saying anything about marijuana or Marinol to a LEO or Hospital or Lab people and giving them a heads up --- remember you remain silent and say nothing

 

But soon as you go see your Attorney, you tell your Attorney you have Marijuana Registry Card AND take Marinol a Schedule 3 drug, it is a Defense can be used

as there is nothing else...sure it might be in the end a loser, but I really do not see anything else and do not accept the your screwed. At minimum it is something

that can be used to leverage a better plea deal....that's about the Jist of my points

 

 

The question a difference between Marinol and Marijuana THC-COOH and THCV-COOH -- getting an expert to say it could ONLY be caused by

illegal THC I doubt the pros would want to go to the hassle and expense, --- could they, yep. Might loose,, yep.

 

Any other defense available, nope.

 

The real question is is it reasonable doubt -- we do not deal in extreme absolutes. Only reasonable doubt.

 

So, it would inevitably come down to the dueling experts (and if the State/County are picking up all the costs, e,g, court appointed defense counsel

needs an expert and petitions for the State/County to pay and be on the hook for paying both sides of the case....

 

 

Yes electrospray Ionization SS Chromo Mass spec might/can tell the difference between the Marinol and Marijuana -- a carbon ring from my understanding,

BUT it could be so darn confusing to a Juror that they give the benefit of the doubt (as they should) and acquit -- could it all go south and blow up in your face, sure thats a risk in any case, but I would rather have something, than nothing.

 

M

[Cannalytics]

 

So, it would inevitably come down to the dueling experts (and if the State/County are picking up all the costs, e,g, court appointed defense counsel

needs an expert and petitions for the State/County to pay and be on the hook for paying both sides of the case....

 

 

Yes electrospray Ionization SS Chromo Mass spec might/can tell the difference between the Marinol and Marijuana -- a carbon ring from my understanding,

BUT it could be so darn confusing to a Juror that they give the benefit of the doubt (as they should) and acquit -- could it all go south and blow up in your face, sure thats a risk in any case, but I would rather have something, than nothing.

 

M

 

I've looked at several lab reports generated by the MSP crime lab on behalf of those involved with legal battles. GC/MS confirmation of cannabis products obtained by seizure as well as analysis of bodily fluids occurs on a regular basis. The state is absolutely equipped to analyze for the THCV metabolite with little to no extra effort on their part other than changing a couple settings on their computers. The jury doesn't have to understand the science, they just have to understand the credible testimony of the objective scientist that can competently interpret the data. If anything, we need legislation that seeks to replace the per se laws with reasonable cutoff values that have been shown through well-performed research to be indicative of impairment.

[AKenewell]

Cannalytics is right.

 

Fact is there is testing to distinguish the two. Both for urine and for blood. Granted, the test is more expensive and is not used universally. So Murph, PB is wrong that they cannot be told apart. Even though delta 9 tetrahydrocannabinol is the same in marinol vs cannabis, cannabis is different because of its secondary ingredients. Michigan's category 1 states "marihuana," not "THC." Marijuana and marinol are not the same, although the THC in each is the same. Marinol is only indicated in the treatment of nausea such as come with chemotherapy and in the treatment of anorexia as comes with terminal illnesses such as advanced AIDS or cancer. Cannabis is more effective for a number of conditions, which was a key argument behind the passage of the act in the first place. And most posters here would agree. So not only is marinol different, it has a narrow list of indications and would not be indicated in the treatment of most medical marijuana patients.

 

all Docs doing Certifications IMHO should be giving a scrip for Marinol to

everyone they certify since Koon came out ---

 

Misuse of prescription narcotics would be an easy way for law enforcement to go after your physician. It happens every year. Diversion of prescription meds is a huge problem. Physicians are somewhat protected for medical marijuana, but there are no protections against this. It's one of the reasons behind the michigan automated prescription system... MAPS. All controls are tracked. And the one you're talking about, marinol, is very seldom used. As I said before, most pharmacies don't even carry it. It doesn't even work well for the things it's intended for. So if you have a physician who signed for your medical marijuana certificate, you should encourage him/her to NOT delve into this... if you value your physician. Any physician doing that would be abusing his/her privileges and would not be doing anyone any favors.

 

Marinol is pricey but I do think a generic is available).

 

No, it's not.

 

And as CaveatLector points out, driving with THC in your system is illegal... period. If you were to try to game the system by popping a marinol capsule as you were getting pulled over after smoking your cannabis 6 hours earlier, not only would you test positive for the inactive metabolites from what you smoked, but you'd also test positive for the active delta-9-THC from the marinol and the delta-9-11-hydroxy-THC from the marinol! Both are active metabolites. The Michigan Supreme Court in 2006 already stated that carboxylated THC (inactive, longer detection time metabolite) cannot be treated as schedule 1. And if your use of the marinol was, say, the previous day, your declaring it as one of your medications on your drug disclaimer at the time of your drop would simply alert the lab's supervising physician to order the more expensive test.

 

Bottom line is don't pursue this. Not only is it ineffective, it wouldn't save your tail when you need it the most and the physician would put himself at risk in writing for it. What's he going to say when called to testify about it in court, "Doctor, why did you write for this marinol?" It's got to be something better than, "oh, in case he got pulled over driving with active THC in his system." Again, its only indications are severe nausea such as what comes with chemotherapy or with anorexia as comes with advanced AIDS or terminal cancer.

 

The answer is to pursue rescheduling "marihuana" as the state calls it under the michigan public health code to reflect its new status, or defining impairment.

[Irishgreen]

The reality is that most doctors will not prescribe marinol for anything other than its label use. Marinol is not cannabis and we all know that cannabis contains compounds that marinol does not. That is how the argument arose that cannabis should be legal to use medically--because it is different that marinol. Furthermore, there has been noting but conjecture that natural thc will come up as being the same as synthetic thc as far as a blood test is concerned.

 

I want input from someone who knows how the test would come out not just a lot of guessing. Furthermore, I suspect that if you claim the thc in the blood is a result of marinol use that the test will be further refined to see if it is natural or synthetic thc. Or they will test for marinol metabolites that may not be present with just marijuana use. In that way they will rule out marinol use.

 

I will reiterate that driving with thc in your system is illegal. I don't know that you reach a different conclusion just because the thc comes from marinol anyway. It is also illegal to drive with certain forms of synthetic thc in you. So the problem here can only be resolved by either removing thc from schedule 1 or the legislature developing standards.

 

I am wondering why driving is not covered here:

 

333.26427 Scope of act; limitations.

 

7. Scope of Act.

Sec. 7. (a) The medical use of marihuana is allowed under state law to the extent that it is carried out in accordance with the provisions of this act.

(b) This act shall not permit any person to do any of the following:

(1) Undertake any task under the influence of marihuana, when doing so would constitute negligence or professional malpractice.

(2) Possess marihuana, or otherwise engage in the medical use of marihuana:

(A) in a school bus;

(B) on the grounds of any preschool or primary or secondary school; or

© in any correctional facility.

(3) Smoke marihuana:

(A) on any form of public transportation; or

(B) in any public place.

(4) Operate, navigate, or be in actual physical control of any motor vehicle, aircraft, or motorboat while under the influence of marihuana.

(5) Use marihuana if that person does not have a serious or debilitating medical condition.

© Nothing in this act shall be construed to require:

(1) A government medical assistance program or commercial or non-profit health insurer to reimburse a person for costs associated with the medical use of marihuana.

(2) An employer to accommodate the ingestion of marihuana in any workplace or any employee working while under the influence of marihuana.

(d) Fraudulent representation to a law enforcement official of any fact or circumstance relating to the medical use of marihuana to avoid arrest or prosecution shall be punishable by a fine of $500.00, which shall be in addition to any other penalties that may apply for making a false statement or for the use of marihuana other than use undertaken pursuant to this act.

(e) All other acts and parts of acts inconsistent with this act do not apply to the medical use of marihuana as provided for by this act.

 

 

 

 

 

It seems to me, as it always had that this would cover you. As long as you aren't "under the influence" while driving. I understand the argument is what is "under the influence". And, again....I guess this would come down to not driving like a jerk. Not stinking like marijuana when you go out, and not offering information untill it's needed. If they suspect you are under the influence of something just from your behavior, same as if you had been drinking then they might conduct a sobriety test.....but, it is not to be assumed based upon the fact that you have a card that you can not drive. It specifically states when we can not drive.

[peanutbutter]

Cannalytics is right.

 

Fact is there is testing to distinguish the two. Both for urine and for blood. Granted, the test is more expensive and is not used universally. So Murph, PB is wrong that they cannot be told apart. Even though delta 9 tetrahydrocannabinol is the same in marinol vs cannabis, cannabis is different because of its secondary ingredients. Michigan's category 1 states "marihuana," not "THC." Marijuana and marinol are not the same, although the THC in each is the same. Marinol is only indicated in the treatment of nausea such as come with chemotherapy and in the treatment of anorexia as comes with terminal illnesses such as advanced AIDS or cancer. Cannabis is more effective for a number of conditions, which was a key argument behind the passage of the act in the first place. And most posters here would agree. So not only is marinol different, it has a narrow list of indications and would not be indicated in the treatment of most medical marijuana patients.

 

 

 

Misuse of prescription narcotics would be an easy way for law enforcement to go after your physician. It happens every year. Diversion of prescription meds is a huge problem. Physicians are somewhat protected for medical marijuana, but there are no protections against this. It's one of the reasons behind the michigan automated prescription system... MAPS. All controls are tracked. And the one you're talking about, marinol, is very seldom used. As I said before, most pharmacies don't even carry it. It doesn't even work well for the things it's intended for. So if you have a physician who signed for your medical marijuana certificate, you should encourage him/her to NOT delve into this... if you value your physician. Any physician doing that would be abusing his/her privileges and would not be doing anyone any favors.

 

 

 

No, it's not.

 

And as CaveatLector points out, driving with THC in your system is illegal... period. If you were to try to game the system by popping a marinol capsule as you were getting pulled over after smoking your cannabis 6 hours earlier, not only would you test positive for the inactive metabolites from what you smoked, but you'd also test positive for the active delta-9-THC from the marinol and the delta-9-11-hydroxy-THC from the marinol! Both are active metabolites. The Michigan Supreme Court in 2006 already stated that carboxylated THC (inactive, longer detection time metabolite) cannot be treated as schedule 1. And if your use of the marinol was, say, the previous day, your declaring it as one of your medications on your drug disclaimer at the time of your drop would simply alert the lab's supervising physician to order the more expensive test.

 

Bottom line is don't pursue this. Not only is it ineffective, it wouldn't save your tail when you need it the most and the physician would put himself at risk in writing for it. What's he going to say when called to testify about it in court, "Doctor, why did you write for this marinol?" It's got to be something better than, "oh, in case he got pulled over driving with active THC in his system." Again, its only indications are severe nausea such as what comes with chemotherapy or with anorexia as comes with advanced AIDS or terminal cancer.

 

The answer is to pursue rescheduling "marihuana" as the state calls it under the michigan public health code to reflect its new status, or defining impairment.

 

The DEA encourages electing to use Marinol instead of marijuana.

 

How long would I have to be using the Marinol to claim all the THC in the blood came from it?

 

How many days does it take to be true? No games .. When is it true?

[+Malamute]

The Judge will gladly tell you pb.

[Murph]

Those on this thread --

 

Let me say this after reading the last few posts on this thread -- why is it that what appears to be some of the most intelligent people in the MM Community - each with needed and specific skills are wasting time arguing amongst ourselves when they are all on the same side? Can we break the ongoing BS and flip it on it's head? Can We actually build an Organization that can be EFFECTIVE and accomplish what everyone wants -- some "peace" of mind the Law is the Law and it will be enforce?

 

We know what must be done, and IMHO the issues are the following:

 

1) This community of "Us" is acting in common reliance on the State MM Program (MMMAct) for legal protection and it is now 131,484+ registry card holders (that does not include caregivers I understand) , needs to be assured as best as can be with some simple strategies --

 

2) So far, the protection the Act was intended to provide does not really exist as the powers that be have usurped the Voter's clearly expressed intent and twisted it into just more of the same, more arrests, more forfeiture and more incarceration in Jails and Prison

 

3) The law meant to protect "Us" as a shield, is used instead as a Sword to cut us down and we have lost every battle as no one organized place exists for people to turn that is reliable, credible, and will not gouge them because their in between and rock and a hard place -- but in the end it impacts us all as these are the cases that end up as Apothecary, McQueen, Koon....and this must be confronted and reversed and the first way to do that is collect funds to help these people directly and indirectly,

 

4) So far in 3 years, every legal and political skirmish has been lost by our community, "Us" and the one of the reasons is because no organization nor group exists thaty can get critical mass of the community to fund and act for the better of ALL the community of cannabis users, and all organizations existing cannot seem to accomplish ONE GOAL of bringing us together to fight a common foe --- until we are united it is divided we fall -- perhaps more importantly, No one group speaks as ONE and vote as ONE

 

4a) -- the MMMAct's enforcement must be first as it is LAW -- and until it is enforced as Law nothing should change or amend it as the Gov. has not demonstrated they understand what happened when the Voter's passed the Act -- they are stuck in disbelief, rejection, and retribution -- rather than acceptance and working together. You cannot work together with someone who rejects the basis of it all, Marijuana is available to anyone -- be it Medical Marijuana in the open and safe like WE WANT --- or kept illegal and dangerous (*funding murderous cartels*) as the Gov. wants. They need an attitude adjustment to understand this, and We /"Us" , are not going away. We MUST support each other in effective ways and stop making noise that does or accomplishes nothing -- wasting our time, effort, and treasure must stop.

 

5) The community is waiting for someone, or some group, to appear on the scene and by intelligence and savvy, bring together and organize all of "Us" like One, and by using social networking "Us" can communicate, pass on, and CAN wield it's considerable monetary, financial, and political power to simply overcome and/or eliminate the opposing forces and issues confronting "Us" --- which get worse and worse as every day passes as the are using scortched earth tactics to keep us down but We are in the right, and have the Law behind "Us" (which is a seismic change as never before have we had the Law on our side)

 

6) As soon as some credible and intelligent group organizes "Us" clearly We must communicate the pressing goals We need to accomplish FIRST, and that will hopefully be enough to create the Organization, stop the infighting and have some decent Leadership -- something lacking so far --- as We need to keep a laser like focus on the major issue that is most important to the largest amount of "Us" -- right now to many groups with their own fifedoms exists -- and the legal issues and the means to obtain or repel the needed corrections to these legal issues is the price We pay for too many small organizations -- enforcement of the act as it is currently on the Books must be the first order of business as We are supposed to be immune from arrest if We got Certified and a Registry Card -- they just arrested us anyway. This must change.

 

7) This organization needs substantial funding from this community of "Us" to protect "Us" from the various opponents foreign (out of state) and domestic (in state) and to do this money is needed to be collected (and a substantial amount of it) -- as if the 131k who have registry cards gave $20 bucks each, that is $ 2.6 million dollars, and that is an amount an effective Organization NEEDS today for a Statewide Organization -- without it nothing can happen.

As a side comparison, Judge's Elections in Michigan appellate courts --- Statewide -- have skyrocketed to between $20 to $53 million -- so $2 million is really a minimum amount per year that has to be collected --- and hey, is $20 really something that is going dent or hurt any one person to have a little piece of mind good intelligent people are working on the issue you care about and get some REAL WINS on our side? If We continue to "cheap it" it will be more of the same.....losses and the end of it.

We spend the same $20 on a gram of good cannabis......think about it.

 

8) clearly nothing happens without funding in this world --- so funding is VERY important -- and must be broad based as many hands makes light work

 

9) We have seen several organizations come and go and some stay, saying they have our best interests at heart but it seems like nothing happens -- indeed nothing has happened as no 1000, or 10, 000 people have joined together -- some people have been greedy and have their own pecuniary interests at the center of the goals, rather than protecting "Us" from having our doors kicked in, Me, I would gladly pay $20 to make sure someone with the needed resources is on my side fighting for "US"

 

10) the best and the brightest can do many other things , but something like this needs to be done now --- as in a few more months, the law will be worthless, perhaps as soon as the Sup Crt Decision comes down --- so that should be kept in mind, as primary goals cannot be accomplished without money,

 

11) We must do what the MMMAct intended -- to make us Registry Card holders immune from arrest for Medical Marijuana use -- and protect the caregivers/family/community as best it can and as Humanly possible as Defending the medical marijuana act as it currently on the books as Law, never happened !

 

This much is clear -- this is all over in Michigan with Medical Marijuana IF WE do not do something fast. If a few smart people would start and join in ?

 

 

M

[peanutbutter]

The Judge will gladly tell you pb.

 

I would rather be law abiding before that.

[peanutbutter]

Oh .. my family doc wrote my script today.

[Murph]

who are most doctors? Never met one.

 

M

 

The reality is that most doctors will not prescribe marinol for anything other than its label use. Marinol is not cannabis and we all know that cannabis contains compounds that marinol does not. That is how the argument arose that cannabis should be legal to use medically--because it is different that marinol. Furthermore, there has been noting but conjecture that natural thc will come up as being the same as synthetic thc as far as a blood test is concerned.

 

I want input from someone who knows how the test would come out not just a lot of guessing. Furthermore, I suspect that if you claim the thc in the blood is a result of marinol use that the test will be further refined to see if it is natural or synthetic thc. Or they will test for marinol metabolites that may not be present with just marijuana use. In that way they will rule out marinol use.

 

I will reiterate that driving with thc in your system is illegal. I don't know that you reach a different conclusion just because the thc comes from marinol anyway. It is also illegal to drive with certain forms of synthetic thc in you. So the problem here can only be resolved by either removing thc from schedule 1 or the legislature developing standards.

[bobandtorey]

Those on this thread --

 

Let me say this after reading the last few posts on this thread -- why is it that what appears to be some of the most intelligent people in the MM Community - each with needed and specific skills are wasting time arguing amongst ourselves when they are all on the same side? Can we break the ongoing BS and flip it on it's head? Can We actually build an Organization that can be EFFECTIVE and accomplish what everyone wants -- some "peace" of mind the Law is the Law and it will be enforce?

 

We know what must be done, and IMHO the issues are the following:

 

1) This community of "Us" is acting in common reliance on the State MM Program (MMMAct) for legal protection and it is now 131,484+ registry card holders (that does not include caregivers I understand) , needs to be assured as best as can be with some simple strategies --

 

2) So far, the protection the Act was intended to provide does not really exist as the powers that be have usurped the Voter's clearly expressed intent and twisted it into just more of the same, more arrests, more forfeiture and more incarceration in Jails and Prison

 

3) The law meant to protect "Us" as a shield, is used instead as a Sword to cut us down and we have lost every battle as no one organized place exists for people to turn that is reliable, credible, and will not gouge them because their in between and rock and a hard place -- but in the end it impacts us all as these are the cases that end up as Apothecary, McQueen, Koon....and this must be confronted and reversed and the first way to do that is collect funds to help these people directly and indirectly,

 

4) So far in 3 years, every legal and political skirmish has been lost by our community, "Us" and the one of the reasons is because no organization nor group exists thaty can get critical mass of the community to fund and act for the better of ALL the community of cannabis users, and all organizations existing cannot seem to accomplish ONE GOAL of bringing us together to fight a common foe --- until we are united it is divided we fall -- perhaps more importantly, No one group speaks as ONE and vote as ONE

 

4a) -- the MMMAct's enforcement must be first as it is LAW -- and until it is enforced as Law nothing should change or amend it as the Gov. has not demonstrated they understand what happened when the Voter's passed the Act -- they are stuck in disbelief, rejection, and retribution -- rather than acceptance and working together. You cannot work together with someone who rejects the basis of it all, Marijuana is available to anyone -- be it Medical Marijuana in the open and safe like WE WANT --- or kept illegal and dangerous (*funding murderous cartels*) as the Gov. wants. They need an attitude adjustment to understand this, and We /"Us" , are not going away. We MUST support each other in effective ways and stop making noise that does or accomplishes nothing -- wasting our time, effort, and treasure must stop.

 

5) The community is waiting for someone, or some group, to appear on the scene and by intelligence and savvy, bring together and organize all of "Us" like One, and by using social networking "Us" can communicate, pass on, and CAN wield it's considerable monetary, financial, and political power to simply overcome and/or eliminate the opposing forces and issues confronting "Us" --- which get worse and worse as every day passes as the are using scortched earth tactics to keep us down but We are in the right, and have the Law behind "Us" (which is a seismic change as never before have we had the Law on our side)

 

6) As soon as some credible and intelligent group organizes "Us" clearly We must communicate the pressing goals We need to accomplish FIRST, and that will hopefully be enough to create the Organization, stop the infighting and have some decent Leadership -- something lacking so far --- as We need to keep a laser like focus on the major issue that is most important to the largest amount of "Us" -- right now to many groups with their own fifedoms exists -- and the legal issues and the means to obtain or repel the needed corrections to these legal issues is the price We pay for too many small organizations -- enforcement of the act as it is currently on the Books must be the first order of business as We are supposed to be immune from arrest if We got Certified and a Registry Card -- they just arrested us anyway. This must change.

 

7) This organization needs substantial funding from this community of "Us" to protect "Us" from the various opponents foreign (out of state) and domestic (in state) and to do this money is needed to be collected (and a substantial amount of it) -- as if the 131k who have registry cards gave $20 bucks each, that is $ 2.6 million dollars, and that is an amount an effective Organization NEEDS today for a Statewide Organization -- without it nothing can happen.

As a side comparison, Judge's Elections in Michigan appellate courts --- Statewide -- have skyrocketed to between $20 to $53 million -- so $2 million is really a minimum amount per year that has to be collected --- and hey, is $20 really something that is going dent or hurt any one person to have a little piece of mind good intelligent people are working on the issue you care about and get some REAL WINS on our side? If We continue to "cheap it" it will be more of the same.....losses and the end of it.

We spend the same $20 on a gram of good cannabis......think about it.

 

8) clearly nothing happens without funding in this world --- so funding is VERY important -- and must be broad based as many hands makes light work

 

9) We have seen several organizations come and go and some stay, saying they have our best interests at heart but it seems like nothing happens -- indeed nothing has happened as no 1000, or 10, 000 people have joined together -- some people have been greedy and have their own pecuniary interests at the center of the goals, rather than protecting "Us" from having our doors kicked in, Me, I would gladly pay $20 to make sure someone with the needed resources is on my side fighting for "US"

 

10) the best and the brightest can do many other things , but something like this needs to be done now --- as in a few more months, the law will be worthless, perhaps as soon as the Sup Crt Decision comes down --- so that should be kept in mind, as primary goals cannot be accomplished without money,

 

11) We must do what the MMMAct intended -- to make us Registry Card holders immune from arrest for Medical Marijuana use -- and protect the caregivers/family/community as best it can and as Humanly possible as Defending the medical marijuana act as it currently on the books as Law, never happened !

 

This much is clear -- this is all over in Michigan with Medical Marijuana IF WE do not do something fast. If a few smart people would start and join in ?

 

 

M

 

Thanks i agree $$ are needed but as far as all the C.O.A go's we did not lose are case up their and it's hard for us to get support $$$ money for are Lawyers

i still think are case is very important because if you can't use medical marihuana in court it is over for us all IMHO

[CaveatLector]

who are most doctors? Never met one.

 

M

The same doctors we refer to when we say most doctors are unwilling to sign certifications to recommend use of med marijuana. Ever met one of those??????

[+Malamute]

I would rather be law abiding before that.

 

Absolutely. I will say i even looked at medical reasons to forbid blood testing. I am with ya. But the marinol solution will become non existant after the first non conviction i assume.

 

I still fear the only way to get a sensible solution for patients is to pass another initiative and make our own rules/law. :-) The few states that have defined it have come in at 5ng at best. Califoney is impairment' y,

 

This will be a fight that lasts a long long time.

[Dr. Bob]

Ok, I've been asked to review this. Let's set the framework first.

 

1. I am a doctor, the only one in here. I am the only one trained in medicine, I am the expert. This is not opinion I offer, it is medical science.

2. I am NOT a lawyer, but it is my JOB to be trained in the legal framework of medicine. Again, not opinion, just the way it is.

3. This is not about people, this is about ideas. All the folks expressing their thoughts in here are good people.

 

The use of marinol for pain is not indicated. It is indicated for nausea and wasting. Don't believe me, look it up. I'm not here to teach you medicine.

 

Marinol is a schedule 3 narcotic and under the jurisdiction of the DEA and ALL prescriptions for marinol are tracked and clearly subject to investigation by the DEA and the Medical Board.

 

While the use of marinol to somehow defeat Koon and 'cloud the water' is a thought, it is a VERY POORLY constructed thought. The medical board, the courts, and doctors would think it laughable. And, even though I am strongly pro MMJ, I think it is too. It is exceedingly poor advice, and as a direct result of this absurd discussion, I have had desperate people facing criminal charges call me hoping for a miracle. It is false hope and bad advice. It ranks right up there with telling folks their grows need to be secured, but not necessarily locked. LOCK YOUR GROW....PERIOD.

 

Don't mention Marinol again, it is misleading and hurts this entire community.

 

I say this because the false hope, false security, and distracting arguments draw attention from the proper course of action. And that course of action is don't smell like MMJ when you are driving (use medibles they are healthier), don't keep your card next to your license, and don't drive for 12-14 hours after you medicate. Simple. That is the lesson of the case. Start learning lessons rather than trying to slide around them.

 

Dr. Bob

[Dr. Bob]

And stop trying to get people arrested and convicted, which is what will happen if they follow this line of reasoning. Doctors, patients, and possibly the folks that encouraged them to break the law. And no you cannot use the MMMA as an excuse to make marinol in your basement. Under no circumstances can you do that, are you kidding me?

 

End of my discussion.

 

Dr. Bob

[CaveatLector]

[AKenewell]

:goodjob:

[Restorium2]

Looking forward to what the Supreme Court has to say about it. Maybe we will get a little slack then.