Koon Decision Killed Mmj For Now. Demand And Prices In Freefall

[Murph]

I have to disagree with you NL --

 

In Michigan We have what is called a "per se" drugged driving Law -- any amount even .001% is illegal under Michigan Law and now with Koon, this is Binding law from the COAppeals --- so driving with any (I streess any) amount of THC or metabolites in you and you are technically Guilty under the Law as it currently is -- does not mean you should go telling on yourself and this is where people are confused -- if you do not tell them (or it smells, or stuff is in plain sight -- which should NEVER happen) they have no way of knowing. Do not tell on yourself.

 

 

If confronted with LEO in a traffic situation the same old rules apply: Give your DL, Reg., Insur., keep hands on Wheel, SHUT UP but Be Nice like any person, but you are NOT required to answer questions, or do anything but blow a "PBT" (which detects alcohol only so be cool) -- They can't go testing everyone for MJ -- your the only one who could give them reason to believe your on MMJ this point (4/25/2012)- and that is telling on yourself -- so do not tell on yourself !!

(If they get access to the registry that changes so everyone should be calling their reps/sen and saying not to support the Bills/Amendments and we need Collaborative changes (IF ANY) only when all of us get input into those changes -- not some republican Bills shoved down our throats) !

 

Koon ran his mouth, showed his MMCard, was drunk and speeding -- He asked for it. His case NEVER should have been Appealed --

 

If pulled over, be calm, collected, in control. Turn on your smartphone to QIK.COM to record to the cloud (as video/sudio it is uploaded to the cloud so even if the phone is "stolen" the video is on the cloud for later use -- set up an account free before you need it).

 

Plain and simple -- Do NOT snitch on yourself and go telling things about your medical records --in America we have privacy so keep silent.

But also don't be an arse as they (usually in a normal traffic stop) just want to 1) make sure your not drunk and 2) your not wanted, so usually the former takes 5 seconds when they ask for your papers and "where you going" so I would say ONE word-- Home or Work --- you do not want to make the LEO Suspicious so as most people have nothing to worry about --- act that way --- get your ticket or warning and go on your way. If things go bad, that is when you clam up and call a Lawyer/Bondsman.

 

IN SUMMARY:

They have no way of knowing your a MM person or advocate (at this point, but if they open the Registry list it will appear on LEIN if the LEO runs you -- so this Bill must be stopped)

 

Watch Flex your rights on the web -- google it. If search is requested (which always seems to follow it) say "no" that you do not waive Constitutional Rights other People died to give you (or whatever reason you have).

 

Anonymity is golden ---- If confronted with LEO --- Give your DL, Reg. Insur Keep hands on Wheel --

 

* for educational purposes only, as with anything, consult your Lawyer before doing anything. Be safe people and keep fighting. The battle is in our Votes and We have them, vote the bums out of office, including Judges, Prosecutors, and anyone who does not support your Right to use a seed bearing Herb given by God to us Humans* !!

 

M

 

 

Here is my understanding of it.

 

It is legal to drive with THC metabolite in your blood.

 

It is (and always has been) illegal to drive with active THC in your blood. Even if you don't feel under the influence, you could still have active THC in your blood.

 

THC stays active, depending on metabolism and method of ingestion, for hours or even days.

 

Remember, if you have to drive when active THC is likely still in your blood, don't "ride dirty", drive straight and legal, and don't present your MMJ card to police unless it's absolutely necessary.

Edited April 25, 2012 by Murph

[CaveatLector]

I have to disagree with you -- Michigan has "per se" driving Law and now with Koon, this is binding law, so driving with any

(I streess any) amount of THC or metabolites in you and you are Guilty. The only hope people would have it is to take it to

Jury Trail and argue no impairment -- but as We have seen, the Court's block such defenses and simply say you cannot

argue this or that -- so when that happens little choice but to take a plea WITH the caveat your doing so because of the

ruling and will be appealing -- it is the only way as the law is currently in Michigan (and anyone should be made aware of this).

 

I do agree that no one should be CARRYING their cards or ever admit to a crime (it's called snitching on yourself).

Stay silent. Call your lawyer. say NO to anything else (well except PBT as that does nothing but alcohol)...

 

M

It has always been "binding" law. It is statutory law and we didn't need Koon to tell us that.

 

Michigan does have a per se law with regard to thc but NOT metabolites. Metabolites are NOT thc and are NOT a schedule 1 controlled substance. As a patient you CAN legally drive with thc metabolites in your system.

 

As for arguing "no impairment" that won't help. The statute doesn't require impairment, therefore the prosecutor only need prove that you had thc in you when you drove in Michigan.

 

I should also add that you don't have a right to appeal if you plead guilty.

Edited April 25, 2012 by CaveatLector

[bobandtorey]

It has always been "binding" law. It is statutory law and we didn't need Koon to tell us that.

 

Michigan does have a per se law with regard to thc but NOT metabolites. Metabolites are NOT thc and are NOT a schedule 1 controlled substance. As a patient you CAN legally drive with thc metabolites in your system.

 

As for arguing "no impairment" that won't help. The statute doesn't require impairment, therefore the prosecutor only need prove that you had thc in you when you drove in Michigan.

 

I should also add that you don't have a right to appeal if you plead guilty.

i agree thats why it is as bad as we think it is

[mizerman]

Don't drive in a manner that would make you a target to get pulled over.

[CaveatLector]

Koon ran his mouth, showed his MMCard, was drunk and speeding -- He asked for it. His case NEVER should have been Appealed --

 

Koon's appeal didn't change the law. The law was already in existence. I would guess the reason he appealed was to try and get it changed by having it interpreted as not applying to mm patients. As I stated before, even Judge Krause joined in the opinion of the court so it doesn't seem as though waiting for a more liberal court would have helped.

 

At this point people need to be encouraging their legislators to adopt standards for impairment. This is a big deal and should probably take a lot of our attention after the current bundle of bills is disposed of.

[Murph]

CaveatLector,

 

You seem to be not only wrong, your confused about the thread (and one would do well to read it first) -- it is very clear and in english. You are also probably seeing posts that were in the process of editing (that were left open while I attended to other matters). I am not here to deal with someone argumentative but rather to cut through the BS and post correct information (which below is):

 

1) NL (Northern Lights) said it was (essentially) legal to drive with THC in one's body in Michigan, and Koon meant nothing to change that ...

 

2) I disagreed and stated (under Michigan Drugged (DUID) Driving Law, "per se" it is illegal to drive with ANY THC/Metabolites in one's body).

This is a correct statement of Law -- read the post carefully. I'm am not going to debate COOB-THC and Carboxy and Freezel as it is too

esoteric for most people and does not matter to most people....the bottom line is if its in you, in Michigan, your Guilty of DUID -- likewise, unless people

tell on themselves (jump around saying " I have THC in me") LEO has no way of knowing and cannot pull over everyone and drug test them.....

 

3) As for "impairment" I told NL it does not matter "legally" --but in the real world, one so charged has little choice but to i) plea and appeal, or ii) they could argue to a JURY that they were not impaired, and the Jury should nullify such "per se" laws by finding him/her not guilty as without impairment, no driving problem exists ...(and the stupid assumption made in Michigan Law is that any amount of THC makes one impaired -- and that is plainly incorrect.....I can line up 100 people who smoked 2 weeks ago and have zero impairment. If your one of those people who wrote the law and want to say just because I have it in me I am F upd -- your wrong as MMJ wears off just like alcohol and IMHO it should be regulated the same -- but we have no way of testing (and you likewise confuse URINE and BLOOD testing as they are different).

 

my writing includes words like "not" and means just that -- not

 

M

Edited April 25, 2012 by Murph

[CaveatLector]

CaveatLector,

 

You seem to be not only wrong, your confused about the thread (and one would do well to read it first) -- it is very clear and in english. You are also probably seeing posts that were in the process of editing (that were left open while I attended to other matters). I am not here to deal with someone argumentative but rather to cut through the BS and post correct information (which below is):

 

1) NL (Northern Lights) said it was (essentially) legal to drive with THC in one's body in Michigan, and Koon meant nothing to change that ...

 

2) I disagreed and stated (under Michigan Drugged (DUID) Driving Law, "per se" it is illegal to drive with ANY THC/Metabolites in one's body).

This is a correct statement of Law -- read the post carefully. I'm am not going to debate COOB-THC and Carboxy and Freezel as it is too

esoteric for most people and does not matter to most people....the bottom line is if its in you, in Michigan, your Guilty of DUID -- likewise, unless people

tell on themselves (jump around saying " I have THC in me") LEO has no way of knowing and cannot pull over everyone and drug test them.....

 

3) As for "impairment" I told NL it does not matter "legally" --but in the real world, one so charged has little choice but to i) plea and appeal, or ii) they could argue to a JURY that they were not impaired, and the Jury should nullify such "per se" laws by finding him/her not guilty as without impairment, no driving problem exists ...(and the stupid assumption made in Michigan Law is that any amount of THC makes one impaired -- and that is plainly incorrect.....I can line up 100 people who smoked 2 weeks ago and have zero impairment. If your one of those people who wrote the law and want to say just because I have it in me I am F upd -- your wrong as MMJ wears off just like alcohol and IMHO it should be regulated the same -- but we have no way of testing (and you likewise confuse URINE and BLOOD testing as they are different).

 

my writing includes words like "not" and means just that -- not

 

M

What, pray tell, is it that I was wrong OR confused about? Everything I said was correct. I see you injected a little comedy in there though by implying that I foolishly didn't wait for you to "edit" your post. Maybe we need an icon, like one of those emoticons, that can hold up a little sign that says, "Hey dudes, what I just posted, ignore it. Yeah, just ignore it, because I'm planning on editing it."

 

 

Again, it is not "per se" illegal for a patient to drive with metabolites in their system. Your claim that Feezel is "too esoteric for most people" is nonsense. If you're 10 years old you can understand the case. When you use marijuana then thc is present in your body. After a few days it breaks down (metabolizes). At that point there is no thc in the body ONLY metabolites of the thc. The metabolites remain for about 4 weeks. So for people who do not medicate daily or every few days there will be times when they have no thc in their bodies but do have metabolites present. If not for the Feezel case this would still be illegal. Simple to understand and applicable to many!

 

Your argument that a "jury should nullify" is a pipe dream. In a case like that (where there was arguably no actual impairment) the jury would still be instructed that if they found that thc was in the body AND that the person was driving that they must convict. That is the reality of the situation. Jury nullification is not as common as you must be thinking.

 

 

Hey, see, I could've used the edit emoticon here myself as this last paragraph is being added after I posted. Just wanted to point out again that your "choice" of "plea and appeal" isn't a choice. Again, there is no right to appeal a guilty plea. So that generally is not an option.

Edited April 25, 2012 by CaveatLector

[+Malamute]

This was simply a failure of the drafters of the Act. We were all fighting that "Under the Influence" equaled "Must show Impairment."

 

Didn't happen. It was along shot anyhow.

 

So, now we are all stuck under zero tolerance of ACTIVE metabolities. Michigan sucks.

 

:-)

 

To get anything worth anything, we will have to pass a new initiative in my opinion. At best, any legislature has determined 5ng of active THC to be "impaired". That is on the good side.

 

We will see.

 

Noone ever said this would be a cakewalk. Time to put on your walking shoes....

[Northern Lab]

So, I was right then?

[CaveatLector]

The Koon decision combined with HB4834 and the recently passed law about lying to LEO could make a triple header for LEO.

 

Example: After they pass 4834, you are pulled over, cop runs your plate and DL, at the same time he profiles you as a stoner and runs your name and addy from your DL thru the LARA database. Asks you if you when you last medicated. You tell him you do not do mmj. He busts you for lying, orders a blood tests and adds DUI, then raids your home since you are no longer protected by the Act.

 

Anyway, something to look forward to.

 

Let's go through that again. Let's say he profiles you as a stoner and runs you for a LARA hit. Comes up that you have a card. Asks when you last medicated. You say, "I am going to exercise my right to remain silent." He can't bust you for lying. He can't order a blood test without probable cause that you are impaired.

 

So, with all of that in mind you do what is necessary to protect yourself. Shield yourself from any possibility that he can find probable cause to draw blood. First, DON'T drive while high. Second, don't have the smell of freshly burned marijuana in your car or on your clothing. Third, follow all traffic laws. Remember that something like speeding, alone, doesn't create probable cause.

 

I emphasize, follow ALL traffic laws. If you drive drunk, even just a .08, you could end up with a blood draw and then a doubly whammy.

[restlesslegs]

Let's go through that again. Let's say he profiles you as a stoner and runs you for a LARA hit. Comes up that you have a card. Asks when you last medicated. You say, "I am going to exercise my right to remain silent." He can't bust you for lying. He can't order a blood test without probable cause that you are impaired.

 

So, with all of that in mind you do what is necessary to protect yourself. Shield yourself from any possibility that he can find probable cause to draw blood. First, DON'T drive while high. Second, don't have the smell of freshly burned marijuana in your car or on your clothing. Third, follow all traffic laws. Remember that something like speeding, alone, doesn't create probable cause.

 

I emphasize, follow ALL traffic laws. If you drive drunk, even just a .08, you could end up with a blood draw and then a doubly whammy.

 

Well said and advice we should all follow in these troubled waters.

[Restorium2]

Also, refusing to do the impairment test IS grounds for a blood test. Take the impairment test.

[CaveatLector]

I would also encourage everyone to invest in a smoking jacket. They used to be popular with the old Hollywood crowd like Cary Grant. However, they weren't just for fashion they served a purpose. They were worn to protect your clothing from smelling like smoke. So wear a jacket when you smoke and take it off when you're done. Yes, you'll still have it in your hair and other clothing but the jacket covers a large portion of your body and should HELP to mitigate the smell.

 

Also, wash your hands and face. Maybe gargle with minty mouthwash.

 

Ideally you would change all of your clothing and shower but for some that may not be practical. Ideally you also wouldn't smoke to begin with and you would, instead, favor alternative forms of ingestion.

 

Most of all just don't drive stoned. It isn't safe and you don't want to kill someone.

[Restorium2]

Yup. I have 10 hoodies. Rotate your hoodies often. lol Put up the hood and your hair doesn't reek.

[LITLJON]

It's always been illeagal to give false info to leo. Don't need a redundant laws.

The Koon decision combined with HB4834 and the recently passed law about lying to LEO could make a triple header for LEO.

 

Example: After they pass 4834, you are pulled over, cop runs your plate and DL, at the same time he profiles you as a stoner and runs your name and addy from your DL thru the LARA database. Asks you if you when you last medicated. You tell him you do not do mmj. He busts you for lying, orders a blood tests and adds DUI, then raids your home since you are no longer protected by the Act.

 

Anyway, something to look forward to.

[bobandtorey]

i wounder why people feel that because of the C.O.A maid a ruling that it is Law of the land because when are ruling came down we thought the same thing until we went back to court and the judge said we could not use the Law in court even after the C.O.A said we could i guess ares didn't count because it was in favor of us

Edited April 26, 2012 by bobandtorey

[CaveatLector]

Yup. I have 10 hoodies. Rotate your hoodies often. lol Put up the hood and your hair doesn't reek.

Good tip! Covers your neck too. The more coverage the better.

[CaveatLector]

i wounder why people feel that because of the C.O.A maid a ruling that it is Law of the land because when are ruling came down we thought the same thing until we went back to court and the judge said we could not use the Law in court even after the C.O.A said we could i guess ares didn't count because it was in favor of us

I don't know exactly what you are referring to so I cannot speak to it directly but, in general, a COA ruling is law. A lot of people don't realize that an unpublished COA decision does not create precedent and is only good for the precise facts in the case that was argued. Therefore, an unpublished COA opinion can maybe be persuasive to courts but it isn't necessarily binding.

 

Secondly, a lot of people don't realize that what is discussed in the body of a court opinion is not law. The only law that comes out of an opinion is the actual ruling itself which is usually at the end of the opinion. The "dictum" within the body of the opinion may be persuasive to courts but is not binding. It also may give clues as to how the court may rule on other issues but the bottom line is that it is not law.

 

Lastly, for a court to hear a case there must be an actual "case and controversy." That means a court cannot issue an "advisory" opinion. For example, in the McQueen case, the court indicated that it would rule on p2p transfers for remuneration but that it would NOT rule on p2p without remuneration. Some saw this as the court "legalizing" p2p without remuneration and others saw it as the court being sneaky by just avoiding the issue altogether. The fact is that under the constitution the court could not answer the p2p w/o question because the case did not involve that issue. If it would have ruled on p2p w/o then it would have been issuing an advisory opinion. Therefore the court explicitly avoided the issue. This does NOT make p2p w/o legal. Nor does it necessarily make it illegal. It just means the court won't address the issue until a case involving the issue is presented.

Edited April 26, 2012 by CaveatLector

[Murph]

I think what bobandtorey refer is his case. And this is one of the many criminal cases were the Medical Marijuana Community let you (and really all of US) down miserably. WE as a community should have been rallying around you in every sense of the word -- I do not mean this in some metaphysical, figurative sense --- I mean MONEY !!

 

 

 

 

I am really sorry We failed you. You do have a right to be upset, but I can tell you if it (your case) was properly handled from the start, it MIGHT have turned out differently.

 

We still should start doing what We needed to do 2-3 years ago start collecting a small amount from every new registry card holder -- say $10 a year (for those not getting the discount) to put into a legal defense fund and administered by an elected or semi-elected team (and I do NOT mean general election, I mean a private one of people contributing or some other mechanism that is not too massive and uncontrolable but the details can be worked out later).

 

The purpose of the fund would be to change everything from criminal cases to supporting elections -- a PAC essentially but one able to help single people as these are the cases that end up appealed and as I think bonandtorey will attest, years of litigation destroys one person and needs funding from outside sources or it gets dismissed as financially it is unsustainable. This could "even things up" for defendants fighting criminal cases against the enourmous resources of the State. To provide a good defense your need Attorneys, Paralegals, Court Reporters, researchers, investigators, appellate team, jury consultants, ect., . and the reasons are simple, We need to start looking at this as a long term issue like NORML has for 30 years.

 

We need to (and I do not recall the exact facts of your case bobandtorey, off the top of my head) at least Organize EFFECTIVELY, that is the first step and can be done cheaply online with a LAMP system or on Amazon AWS -- if We do things right from the start, and then incrementally build up the resources needed to do the above things, then start helping in cases and appeals, and finally elections, slowly things will change. No magic bullet exists to all of a sudden fix this, it is an ongoing thing and We are terribly outgunned right now as We do not even have a Statewide Organization with numbers, and We have single individuals, and small groups, saying they represent "us" much like the Legislators say they represent "us" when they do nothing of the sort -- they represent their special interests. No one is looking at and defending the big picture with the needed resources.

 

At a minimum such an Organiaztion has to be inclusionary not exclusionary -- sure some people spout off but cutting them off, banning them, locking things solves nothing -- we need to listen and move on and not let such people waste our valuable time. And the Organization has to be large enough, and ongoing, to include the vast majority of MM Patients/caregivers and have at its center, defense of the LAW that was garnered in mainly by MPP --the sooner we do this and go on the offensive, the sooner things will start to change.

 

"They" will soon start to realize they have grabbed a tiger by the tail. At a minimum will have to let them know they will have a fight on their hands because as of right now, they have won every battle and not even broke a sweat -- We have lost every battle.

 

They sit back and watch us destroy ourselves.

 

They sit back and watch us in-fight amongst ourselves about petty nonsense.

 

They sit back and know We have no organization

 

They sit back and know no one is defending the majority of Patients and Caregivers rights.

 

We cannot even mold Legislation because not one Legislator in the House or Senate has proposed a Bill WE want pushed to correct the things WE want corrected -- most of the Bills have come from ex-Sheriff Sen. Jones -- and you only need to say X-LEO to know how He leans !!

 

Most of all they know we have no money. We fund no defense even in cases that We know are going to do damage -- we do not want to hand the Court of Appeals cases like Koon where He was drunk, speeding, and snitched on himself -- and I realize We cannot force people not to do things but with an organization and funding We can do alot -- not everything -- but hopefully enough.

 

LEGAL ACTION BY MM ACTIVISTS IN MICHIGAN -- NONE. (The only person who has is Atty. Grow and that was local lowest law enforcement priority stuff, which is un-enforceable).

 

It is so sad We have not even sued the Medical Marijuana Program that has for 3 years of sent out 1 year Registry Cards some 6, 7, 8 months after the applications are received WHEN THE LAW SAYS, INDEED says Registry Cards "shall be" (which means hard line must do it in legal language) sent out in 20 DAYS or less -- it is a slam dunk of a "case" to win as a matter of law - heck they even admit it on the web page how bad they have been preforming -- and a paper system when it should all be online is atrocious. Many of the people arrested has been because of not having "cards" even though the law says paperwork is in it's place after 20 days (but how many people have you seen with Notarized paperwork as the Act requires)? None.

 

The old adage "United We stand, Divided We fall" certainly applies to US HERE IN Michigan -- our opponents are destroying US

 

COA Judges issuing diatribes should have been the first indication they threw out all semblance of Judicial restraint and were going to be purely political in issuing decisions (mainly because they have prosecuted Marrijuana so long they cannot grasp it being legal).

 

These Judges are not even a minimally intellectually honest and they ignore or omit from consideration the plain text of the Act when it suits them -- and We cannot even garner ONE response -- We have ONE Application for Leave to Appeal to the Mi Sup Crt. ONE in three years when We should have a good half-dozen !

 

And our "Leaders" somehow think some "letter" with "unified" names on it will deter them Legislators from (trying) to pass the Bills into Law -- the super majority built into the Act is the only thing slowing them down as they simply do not have the votes (if it is along party lines). The "immediate-effect-o-gate may have had something to do with it as they were just ramming Laws into immediate effect essentially corruptly as they did not have the 2/3rds vote to do so --- they certainly do not have a 75% super-majority to amend the medical marijuana in both Chambers -- in the House the spread is simply to large for them to overcome (I hope, as We know behind the scene "buy offs" happen all the time).

 

Our opponents only understand two things --- 1) Money and 2) Votes. We have neither

 

 

M

Edited April 28, 2012 by Murph

[pic book]

Here is my understanding of it.

 

Remember, if you have to drive when active THC is likely still in your blood, don't "ride dirty", drive straight and legal, and don't present your MMJ card to police unless it's absolutely necessary.

Don't show your card to police unless it's absolutely necesary and your attorney has advised you it's 'absolutely necessary.' Showing it when driving, could lead to a blood test you don't want and that the cop would not otherwise have performed.

Edited April 28, 2012 by pic book

[pic book]

I think what bobandtorey refer is his case. And this is one of the many criminal cases were the Medical Marijuana Community let you (and really all of US) down miserably. WE as a community should have been rallying around you in every sense of the word -- I do not mean this in some metaphysical, figurative sense --- I mean MONEY !!

 

 

 

 

I am really sorry We failed you..."They" (the antm-mmj forces) will continue to plowed over US like nothing -- and screw Us and the 63% of State Voter's who approved MMMAct.

It is the loss of democracy.

M

No! It is not the loss of democracy but the cost of our passivity. Those who vote and who fund candidates and who fund appeals eventually get their way The most acute example in the last 25 years is gay rights.

We don't have the same emotional attachment to our issue as gays had, or we'd follow their game plan which worked. We need patient rights same as they got gay rights.

Edited April 28, 2012 by pic book

[Croppled1]

Koon's appeal didn't change the law. The law was already in existence. I would guess the reason he appealed was to try and get it changed by having it interpreted as not applying to mm patients. As I stated before, even Judge Krause joined in the opinion of the court so it doesn't seem as though waiting for a more liberal court would have helped.

 

At this point people need to be encouraging their legislators to adopt standards for impairment. This is a big deal and should probably take a lot of our attention after the current bundle of bills is disposed of.

 

That is the worst thing we could do ! There are no standards that are fair and the 5 ng laws some adopt are even worse on patients who often registrar up to 3 digits if keeping a therapuetic dose in their system like persons on other medical substances . You would be better off having patients use cannabis then take drivers tests on closed courses but that isn't going to happen either .

 

The bottom line is there have been no major problems with people self evaluating then driving like on any other medication these first three years nor in California or other States . Cannabis is non toxic and people can self evaluate , adjust use and driving according to their needs as with any other medications . Society should have some compassion and stop this eye for a eye and repressive behaviors . The damage to patients by confining them to homes is severe people need to get out not only to survive but for mental health .

 

The solution isn't testing it is eliminating the law or enforcement when a qualified patient which is a special case is involved period . Many States have omitted cannabis from their zero tolerance policy since over 1 /20 residents use it regardless of the laws and it shifts culpabillity often unfairly .

 

We have some serious issues in Michigan . I was part of a meeting with Tim Walberg ( he has no idea who I am other then letters ) the other day and he has a very conservative religious following from which many do not see requiring everyone to follow their religious veiws as being exclusionairy . . That is a major problem in our Republic when one group with restrictive veiws desire to make law that creates conflict to where others under freedom cannot practice theirs . In 99/100 instances everyone can be appeased within reason .

 

The precident has been set in our society that we let people on medications drive unless they have difficulties which place themselves or others at risk which require review by their physicians and the points system already in place . We give people the benefit of a doubt with every other substance . . Now we have this ruling and we do not need standards of impairment but the law needs to be ammended to allow for qualified patients to be excluded from it .. I am confused becuase many of us believed the Act already protected patients for internal possession and the statement that other acts do not invalidate the medical cannabis act . Hopefully someone will take this to the Supreme Court on that ground or explain why it doesn't apply ?

 

However the correct response is not definitions of impairment for patients but clear exclusion from zero tolerance policy for qualified patients by ammending that law . IMHO .

 

Cannaibis is not toxic like alchohal most current pre employment screens are set at 50 ng and there is a known error rate of false negatives and positives over 15% .

 

Sorry since the update no spell checker or abillity to start new topics ..

Edited April 28, 2012 by Croppled1

[GanjaWarrior]

Nope not at all....not even close ....all events farmers markets. nope no fear aside from this kinda stuff on the net. i have seen a couple people voice a very small amount of concern., hey its understandable. me personally i know how to read....i just did a bit of reading. i feel better now.

 

When u get a chance look up the 2nd requirement for being a schedule one. now tell me if your drtiving with a schedule one in your system.....I know im not. Road trip time. have fun guys im off to go fishing.

[bobandtorey]

I think what bobandtorey refer is his case. And this is one of the many criminal cases were the Medical Marijuana Community let you (and really all of US) down miserably. WE as a community should have been rallying around you in every sense of the word -- I do not mean this in some metaphysical, figurative sense --- I mean MONEY !!

 

 

 

 

I am really sorry We failed you. You do have a right to be upset, but I can tell you if it (your case) was properly handled from the start, it MIGHT have turned out differently.

 

We still should start doing what We needed to do 2-3 years ago start collecting a small amount from every new registry card holder -- say $10 a year (for those not getting the discount) to put into a legal defense fund and administered by an elected or semi-elected team.

 

And the purpose of the fund would be to change everything -- to "even things up" for defendants fighting the enourmous State. To provide a good defense to your case (Attorneys, Paralegals, Court Reporters, researchers, investigators, appellate team, jury consultants, ect.).... and the reasons are simple,

 

We need to (and I do not recall the exact facts of your case bobandtorey, off the top of my head) at least let them know We can Organize EFFECTIVELY -- that We do things right from the start -- and have the resources needed from the start to take cases on appeal.

 

At a minimum it has to be large enough, and ongoing, as this is an ongoing thing --the sooner we do this and go on the offensive, the sooner things will start to change. "They" will soon start to realize they have grabbed a tiger by the tail and at a minimum will have a fair fight on their hands (and at least they will know they have been in a fight) ! At this point they have won and not even broke a sweat --

 

They sit back and watch us destroy ourselves.

 

They sit back and watch us in-fight.

 

They know we have no organization defending US, the patients and caregivers.

 

Most of all they know we have no money funded for cases OR candidates.

It is so sad We have not even sued the Program that has for 3 years of sent out 1 year Registry Cards some 6, 7, 8 months after they are sent in WHEN THE LAW SAYS, INDEED ORDERS that they shall be sent out in 20 DAYS or less -- it is a slam dunk of a "case" to win as a matter of law (as the facts they have not timely sent the cards out is beyonf dispute -- heck they admit it!!

 

But not one of these "people" on our side has even filed ONE lawsuit. Why is that? I thought they collected money for some "organization" to do this, telling some people that they were "protected" (see other posts on this board). (The whole thing is a typical example of the same corruption we need to fight in the Legislature).

 

They do not even seem to get it that the Government must comply with Law (or it can be ordered to do so by Mandamus). If they fail, you keep appealing.

 

The old adage "United We stand, Divided We fall" certainly applies to US HERE IN Michigan -- our opponents are destroying US

 

COA Judges are issuing diatribes and then one after another political decisions -- they are not even intellectually honest as they omit the plain text of the Act when it suits them -- and what, We cannot even garner but ONE application for leave to appeal to the Mi Sup Crt. ONE in three years ! It is sad, really sad.

 

And our "Leaders" somehow think some "letter" with "unified" names on it will deter them from (trying) to pass the Bills into Law -- WRONG.

 

Our opponents only understand two things --- 1) Money and 2) Votes. We have neither

 

And no organization with the needed credibility to collect money, and HONESTY to distribute it properly to needed cases/candidates.

Everyone (well most as there are some good people out there) -- the others are too busy money grubbing for themselves.

 

Until the above changes and We organize into a Organization, not enough resources will be present on our side to defeat anything --

 

"They" will continue to plowed over US like nothing -- and screw Us and the 63% of State Voter's who approved MMMAct. It is the loss of democracy.

 

 

 

M

thank you for your support and i do agree their is nothing about are case that we don't have prove of under plants under 2.5oz locked up we both had are recommendations and the 21 day's had passed it is really that simple and we are both well sick enough Torey has Cancer i need 2 new hip's and was taking lots of pain pills leo even left all the ox's at first when they broke down are front door they said we were selling pill's

but didn't take them just the marijuana and even left us a few joints for the next day

 

you can read it for your self with are case we have nothing to hide it's been the same story from day one we were legal

even the C.O.A has said we could take the fact's to a jury

 

and we were OK with that but when we got to court the PA said we didn't have it locked up and used the King case against us even the leo's testified in court that we had a lock on are bedroom door

 

but it was not locked at the time because i was in the room they used a battering ram on are front door

and wait for it

no warrant until 2-3 hours later and wait for it you could not even make out who had signed it it had no name under the signature and the leo testified that he could not remember who it was that signed it yup

Edited April 28, 2012 by bobandtorey

[cristinew]

now tell me if your drtiving with a schedule one in your system.

 

that would be OK with you.. but the Judge is my concern