Full Pardon Petition

[Estimated Prophet]

My guess is that stacks of money influenced your family to take their chances with a 140+ plant grow op.

Greedy and careless, yes.

But these long prison terms, no.

The punishment doesn't fit the crime.

I hope they get a pardon.

[CaveatLector]

I think many of the posters on this thread need to be aware of others' feelings. I know nobody wants to hear that, but they matter, especially in situations like this. I don't think this family would have done any of this if they thought it was illegal, especially after the first inspection. They are victims, not criminals.

Maybe. But we need a "take away" from this. It would be helpful to know what prompted the raid.

 

I don't think anyone would claim they thought they were legal federally. For that reason we need to know what prompted the raid. It's interesting to find out that they were making transfers to dispensaries AFTER McQueen. It makes me wonder if the feds followed a trail from a dispensary to the Duvals'. If the locals inspected in 2010 then what changed? If the feds took a look at it and it looked like a large commercial operation then that might be the problem. So what does this case teach us? Maybe you avoid something that looks like a large commercial grow. Ashley tells us her greenhouse is translucent and not transparent. The greenhouse is huge based on those pictures. If you can't see through it and see that there were 70 plants I would guess you assume there may be hundreds. Given the size of that greenhouse, and the fact that transfers were made to a dispensary after McQueen, that may be what got the feds interested.

 

My point is we need to know the facts in this case so caregivers know what to avoid. Let's not scare cgs into thinking they are next since the Duvals claim to have been "100% compliant.

 

As for the claim that the "Ohio" feds got involved, I don't get that. The feds basically have regionally assigned internal jurisdiction. Feds aren't going to come from an office in Ohio to raid territory that is basically policed out of, say, a Detroit office. They don't step on toes like that.

 

At any rate, as the facts trickle in I think it is obvious that the average cg with 5 pts need not be concerned.

[michaelscott]

Tell me what post number of mine was offensive. I'd love to see this pointed out.

 

She pointed it out, no reason for me to do it

[CaveatLector]

My guess is that stacks of money influenced your family to take their chances with a 140+ plant grow op.

Greedy and careless, yes.

But these long prison terms, no.

The punishment doesn't fit the crime.

I hope they get a pardon.

I agree on every point. Shouldn't even be a crime but given that it is I wonder why he got 10 years. Seems more of a short stint and become a parolee for a while would be more appropriate. That's why it seems fishy. I'd be interested to know what the presentence investigation uncovered.

 

Raise your hand if you want to pay to room and board someone for 10 years for this . . . What a giant waste of money.

[CaveatLector]

She pointed it out, no reason for me to do it

You cannot.

[michaelscott]

What are you serious? She was answering questions until you told her to relax, chill out as if she shouldn't be emotional about it. Why do you think she stopped discussing this case?

 

A great dialogue was happening, I was personally learning more about this case and you ended it.

 

 

[aduval327]

im at work sorry I couldnt respond, yes I got mad at some saying things. im sorry three years of people saying wrong things about the case has for sure got to me and makes me agry fast. If you want answers then ask dont assume and say ask and I can answer, give me time as i do work 50hrs a week at the UofM hospital.

 

To correct not sure who but we STOPPED all to dispensaries after the mcqueen case, befor that we only dumped overages there assuring all patients got their allowed amt of meds. Nothing was done after Mcqueens only before. We are very aware now that is illegal and it was after aug 2011. Our first raid was June 2011, the operation Hemp came out in 2010 cleared our op and gave us advice to cover and seperate the cargivers. As after that we invested into the greenhouses, seperated by fence with each individual lock and seperate key. To ask a question here then if its illegal for dispensaries then where do they get all their meds to sell? I was always under the asumption that they came from caregiver overages. Help here?

 

yes the are huge, you can assume we packed hundreds in as so did the DEA, we spaced them out very far to allow room to grow and walk between them all.

 

what sparked the feds? The crazy neighbor who has never liked us and sticks his nose into others business. he called Monroe county cops they said nothing can be done being were licensed. he called the DEA in detroit, they would not take the case then he called ohios DEA being its not legal in ohio and the crap lies he told them for them to get interest. They came with a state search warrent ( first issue there).

 

I will answer your questions bc trust me I come here for your guys support, I dont know it all, I a still learning and trust me I HAVE learned a lot off here and throught the last three yrs going through this. No i dont reply alot on here, im a little busy with things to not get on here daily I admit I have been bad for that. But i was under the impression this is a place to come for if advice is needed?

[Iceman081]

This isn't "I told you so." You hear what you want to hear. So typical. Why don't you try to think outside the box? This is people wanting to know the full story to decide whether they want to support/sign the petition. Get it? So people probe and ask info. You can run off and offer your blind support but how about you let everyone else decide for themselves whether they want to do that?

 

I think everyone feels for her and her family's position. But that doesn't mean they will offer blind support. We should get all the details possible about this case in an effort to avoid repeating history. Do you want to see others end up like this? I doubt it. So let's have a real discussion about what took place so we may learn what to avoid. Is that okay with you michaelscott?

 

I haven't posted here in a long long time but I cannot keep quiet any longer. First of all they were Charged Federally and all you people are quoting state law on all this which is rediculous!!!! Second of all CaveatLector you are the biggest jackass I've ever seen on a Forum you need to get your head out of your Rectum!!!!! And People wonder why nobody comes to this site..................it's full of Idiots who think they know something!!!!!!!

[michaelscott]

Ok shall we continue with thread now?

[Iceman081]

im at work sorry I couldnt respond, yes I got mad at some saying things. im sorry three years of people saying wrong things about the case has for sure got to me and makes me agry fast. If you want answers then ask dont assume and say ask and I can answer, give me time as i do work 50hrs a week at the UofM hospital.

 

To correct not sure who but we STOPPED all to dispensaries after the mcqueen case, befor that we only dumped overages there assuring all patients got their allowed amt of meds. Nothing was done after Mcqueens only before. We are very aware now that is illegal and it was after aug 2011. Our first raid was June 2011, the operation Hemp came out in 2010 cleared our op and gave us advice to cover and seperate the cargivers. As after that we invested into the greenhouses, seperated by fence with each individual lock and seperate key. To ask a question here then if its illegal for dispensaries then where do they get all their meds to sell? I was always under the asumption that they came from caregiver overages. Help here?

 

yes the are huge, you can assume we packed hundreds in as so did the DEA, we spaced them out very far to allow room to grow and walk between them all.

 

what sparked the feds? The crazy neighbor who has never liked us and sticks his nose into others business. he called Monroe county cops they said nothing can be done being were licensed. he called the DEA in detroit, they would not take the case then he called ohios DEA being its not legal in ohio and the crap lies he told them for them to get interest. They came with a state search warrent ( first issue there).

 

I will answer your questions bc trust me I come here for your guys support, I dont know it all, I a still learning and trust me I HAVE learned a lot off here and throught the last three yrs going through this. No i dont reply alot on here, im a little busy with things to not get on here daily I admit I have been bad for that. But i was under the impression this is a place to come for if advice is needed?

 

My Heart goes out to you and your family......................the corruption of the War on Drugs sucked you and your Family into this corrupt system we call the United States of America!!! I wish you the best in these troubled times

[beourbud]

I wonder where they got the idea that dispensaries, p2p, cg2cg and dumping overages was legal?

 

Surely it was not here

 

Now you know who NOT to trust

Edited November 26, 2012 by beourbud

[CaveatLector]

I haven't posted here in a long long time but I cannot keep quiet any longer. First of all they were Charged Federally and all you people are quoting state law on all this which is rediculous!!!! Second of all CaveatLector you are the biggest jackass I've ever seen on a Forum you need to get your head out of your Rectum!!!!! And People wonder why nobody comes to this site..................it's full of Idiots who think they know something!!!!!!!

Because, wait for it . . . wait for it . . . .I asked questions. Woah nellie! I guess I will continue to be a jackass then because I will continue to ask questions. Did I stoop to name calling as you have done here? No. Did I accuse? No. Did I ask questions in an effort to get to the bottom of this? Yes.

 

As for state law, try and keep up here chief. The reason state law is important is because the feds informally have indicated they will not meddle with people who are in full conformity with state law. So, the larger issue is whether the feds are meddling with those in full compliance and thus basically putting the scare in EVERYONE. So I hope we're straight now ice . . . man . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-Bwjk2s8oU

[CaveatLector]

 

A great dialogue was happening, I was personally learning more about this case and you ended it.

Post number? Quote me a line that was offfensive. Otherwise it's still your typical blathering. Let's be specific.

[CaveatLector]

There has to be a better way of doing this than polluting a support thread with claims of this and that, piling on to obvious victims. I say obvious because they were obviously trying to comply with the state law, and the truth could not be uttered in their courtroom. In addition, it is obvious they had no criminal intent. How have they been sentenced to 10 years? Something has gone horribly wrong, we all know it, and this family is paying the price.

 

I do understand the desire to clarify the "100% compliant" post, but it needs to be done very delicately, always considering the poster's feelings FIRST.

Are you kidding me? So are you also suggesting we just shut up and act as drones and sign on the dotted line without knowing what this case is about? If asking about this case is "polluting" the thread then how about you make a suggestion as to what is the appropriate way for one to find out about this case before they decide if they want to support such a petition? Maybe we should grab a free press?

[CaveatLector]

 

 

To correct not sure who but we STOPPED all to dispensaries after the mcqueen case

I think you would be correcting yourself. If I recall you said you engaged in p2p and cg2cg until they were "found illegal." At that time you transferred to dispenaries. I assumed you were referring to McQueen as being what "found" p2p and cg2cg illegal. If not then what case are you referring to on that?

[michaelscott]

She came back, I was wrong. You didn't offend her at all. I have always been wrong about you and your buddies. Cav I thank you for your legal knowledge and input here. You seem like a really nice guy and look forward to your future contributions.

 

Ashley I feel terrible for what your family has gone through over this plant. I'm sorry if I took any focus away and will try and refrain from starting any ruccus.

[CaveatLector]

I don't know the answer, but I know what you are doing is not it.

That's rich . . .

[SFC]

Come on people get real here we all know they twist and leave things out, thats what prosecuters are trained to DO! at the time the ledger was written in it was legal to go patient to patient and caregiver to caregiver! Of course after that became illegal, our overages went to dispensaries NOT ILLEGAL PATIENTS!

 

That was her words. Don't blame everyone else.

[cristinew]

but they have not been charged with sales ,,,, or breaking any Michigan law,

[mibrains]

question if i might..

 

Ashley how did you folks plan to stay within the allotted weight limits?

i read about you folks being sure you were compliant about the plant count, and security but how did you guys intend to harvest all those plants from a greenhouse in the fall and still remain legally compliant and under 15oz maximum at one time?

[cristinew]

Harvest One plant at a time,,, make oil....then the next that about the only way,,, but still this case has to do with breaking federal law not state as they were charged

[cristinew]

Anyway they were told over and over that it was legal to sell to any patient and any caregiver,, so you could get rid of all 140 and still think your legal because they told us it was legal ,, bad advice

[cristinew]

I wonder where they got the idea that dispensaries, p2p, cg2cg and dumping overages was legal?

 

Surely it was not here

 

 

I wonder too,,,,,,,,,,,,

[Chauncy Gardner]

I wonder where they got the idea that dispensaries, p2p, cg2cg and dumping overages was legal?

 

Surely it was not here

 

 

I wonder too,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

When this law passed a lot of people assumed a lot of things were now legal. Dispensaries opened up and, for the most part, were not hassled by the police. It was easy to assume that all the activity you mention was legal. It wasn't until a few court cases (some of which are still pending) occurred that the average Joe realized that the law may not be as clear as they thought.

 

What is really galling about this case is that these people were given a green light by local authorities and they were in compliance with State law - the State couldn't bust them. Wouldn't it have been a little more appropriate for the Feds to step in and first inform them that they were not in compliance with Federal law and then give them time to comply? Why in hell did they have to come in wearing their asinine jack-boots and put on a display of government power? For whom was the display? These obviously were not hardened criminals. We all know the answer as to why law enforcement acts like this - they enjoy it. I am just really disheartened that a jury would buy into all this crap. Maybe, after Colorado and Washington, jurors will have a different opinion of marijuana laws at the federal level. I really wish the Duvals good luck with their appeal. No one should be treated like this - railroaded - in the US.

[Highlander]

When this law passed a lot of people assumed a lot of things were now legal. Dispensaries opened up and, for the most part, were not hassled by the police. It was easy to assume that all the activity you mention was legal. It wasn't until a few court cases (some of which are still pending) occurred that the average Joe realized that the law may not be as clear as they thought.

 

What is really galling about this case is that these people were given a green light by local authorities and they were in compliance with State law - the State couldn't bust them. Wouldn't it have been a little more appropriate for the Feds to step in and first inform them that they were not in compliance with Federal law and then give them time to comply? Why in hell did they have to come in wearing their asinine jack-boots and put on a display of government power? For whom was the display? These obviously were not hardened criminals. We all know the answer as to why law enforcement acts like this - they enjoy it. I am just really disheartened that a jury would buy into all this crap. Maybe, after Colorado and Washington, jurors will have a different opinion of marijuana laws at the federal level. I really wish the Duvals good luck with their appeal. No one should be treated like this - railroaded - in the US.

 

I am not supporting what the feds did, but I'm trying to learn from this. I think what people are missing is the Ogden memo that said the feds shouldn't use resouces to go after people who are in unambiguous complaince with state mmj laws. So when the feds find not only a grow but a logbook that appears to indicate transfers to "any" patient or "any" CG then we don't have unambiguous compliance any more. It would be a real bear for the state to prove lack of state compliance because to do so would involving getting patients and CG to cooperate against the vicctim of the system. So it is easier just to keep it federal and go for the slam dunk.

 

So the "real" problem we have here is that because there are so many gov folks who oppose mmj, they are going to get us any way they can. Think of the position this puts us in. Let the state "get us" with a state violation or insulate ourselves so well from state intervention that the only way "they" can get us is to go federal and go all the way, as in the Duval case.

Edited November 27, 2012 by Highlander