Cease And Desist For Jackson County Dispensaries...

[mibrains]

And there are XXXXX (concerned people) out there who cannot explain how I would be involved in the chain of custody.

 

I explained it.

 

your guilty by association.

it is called running a drug house.

a storage facility owner is only shielded to the extent they have absolutely no idea what is being stored. however all storage agreements i have entered into say you must follow the laws of the county, city and state your in.

i ran a self storage facility here for several years.... and i understand the ramifications...we have had to have police come and work with us on several occasions..

we happily allow complete access... because we have to to remain compliant.

 

try that with this locker system... no go from the start.

 

the laws meant to protect storage facilities from those actions are specific to the rental agreement.

 

you cannot store cannabis in a bank safety box.

 

you cannot even store money in a bank safety box

[GregS]

Everything being talked about here is almost guaranteed to lead to arrest. It seems the idea has been examined to death.

 

How would it leaed to arrest? What charges might be brought? There are still unanswered remarks that Resto and SFC have been unable to adequately answer, and the conversation is not complete without an explanation.

 

How would I be involved in the chain of custody?

 

Who would be arrested?

 

How can I conspire without knowledge of the contents of paid private space?

[GregS]

In your mind? I'm probably just about anything you could pretend.

 

Except that you cannot explain yourself. How does this put me in the chain of custody?

[Restorium2]

If you spent as much time on making the CG/PT system work as you are on this locker idea, and you once did on "proving" why P2P was legal, then we could possibly make the current system work better and actually help PTs.

Ever hear of 'Do Mo Flage'? It's what some people do when they hide from things that need to be done. It's like camouflage to hide from the real work.

[mibrains]

How would it leaed to arrest? What charges might be brought? There are still unanswered remarks that Resto and SFC have been unable to adequately answer, and the conversation is not complete without an explanation.

 

How would I be involved in the chain of custody?

 

Who would be arrested?

 

How can I conspire without knowledge of the contents of paid private space?

 

 

the owner and all conspirators will be arrested. in fact anyone in the vicinity will be taken into custody...

 

as the owner you are in the chain of custody by allowing the actions on your property.

 

you MUST take actions to stop illegal activities if you have any inclination they are happening.

 

you CANNOT claim ignorance to what transpires in this system.

 

the chain of custody is only one very small part of a conviction.

 

listen here....

 

if you install a locker system with any knowledge it will be used to support an illegal activity that is prosecutable... you are absolutely liable.

 

ask Bethany.

 

who ran our compassion club before it was shut down.

 

she had no idea a transaction happened at the clubs function....

 

she had asked all persons to cease and desist.

 

guess what?

 

who did they arrest?

 

not either of the two who were involved with the transfer....they arrested and charged her. for owning the property where a transaction occurred.

even after she told everyone not to transfer on the property.

 

they arrested her.

 

listen up.

 

hear what we are trying to tell you.

 

this locker system is not safe.

 

to facilitate any transfers is not a good idea. that is an action best left between two individuals on their own.

[GregS]

I explained it. your guilty by association. it is called running a drug house. a storage facility owner is only shielded to the extent they have absolutely no idea what is being stored. however all storage agreements i have entered into say you must follow the laws of the county, city and state your in. i ran a self storage facility here for several years.... and i understand the ramifications...we have had to have police come and work with us on several occasions.. we happily allow complete access... because we have to to remain compliant. try that with this locker system... no go from the start. the laws meant to protect storage facilities from those actions are specific to the rental agreement. you cannot store cannabis in a bank safety box. you cannot even store money in a bank safety box

 

Some venues may not work; for instance the bank safe deposit box, which I see possibilities for, but am unaware enough of bank rules to know if it will work. Remember, my effort has been to think through a private system as part of a mainstream business that offers some kind of value to customers, and have not seriously considered banks, but mentioned them in passing.

 

These ageements to comply with the law that you mention: is it the landlord or tenant who agrees to those terms in the rental agrement? Because you are familiar with storage law, what is a landlord's exposure if a tenant signs an agreement, and chooses to do something illegal outside the landlord's knowledge?

[GregS]

GregS, your idea is very dangerous to anybody who would participate in it. Anybody around the lockers could be arrested at any time.

 

On what charge(s)??

[GregS]

the owner and all conspirators will be arrested. in fact anyone in the vicinity will be taken into custody... as the owner you are in the chain of custody by allowing the actions on your property. you MUST take actions to stop illegal activities if you have any inclination they are happening. you CANNOT claim ignorance to what transpires in this system. the chain of custody is only one very small part of a conviction. listen here.... if you install a locker system with any knowledge it will be used to support an illegal activity that is prosecutable... you are absolutely liable. ask Bethany. who ran our compassion club before it was shut down. she had no idea a transaction happened at the clubs function.... she had asked all persons to cease and desist. guess what? who did they arrest? not either of the two who were involved with the transfer....they arrested and charged her. for owning the property where a transaction occurred. even after she told everyone not to transfer on the property. they arrested her. listen up. hear what we are trying to tell you. this locker system is not safe. to facilitate any transfers is not a good idea. that is an action best left between two individuals on their own.

 

This is not intended to facilitate transfers, but transfers between qualified persons is not prohibited, if that is what they choose to engage in.

[mibrains]

This is not intended to facilitate transfers, but transfers between qualified persons is not prohibited, if that is what they choose to engage in.

 

thats not true.

 

transfers between card connected individuals is not prohibited only.

 

any other transfers are not protected from arrest and seizure.

 

if they choose to engage in this activity.. and you provided them the place and ability...

you are guilty right along with them and you will be charged. if you really don't believe me... go ask a local prosecutor what they think about it.

[GregS]

The cops would assume you knew what was going on and go from there.

 

I would be arrested on an assumption that can be readily refuted?

 

Even if they were to obtain warrants to inpect any tenant's contents, and were to find cannabis belonging to a registered patient that is not an unallowed amount, what could they charge they or me with? And what happens when they obtain a warrant and find registry paperwork being kept in safe storage? What happens when they find a woman's purse with valuables, but no contraband?

 

Mibrains. I would not object to taking reasonable steps to prevent illegal acts, to include storage of stolen goods or hazardous materials. But a patient or caregiver storing cannabis in a private space, which is precisely what any rented space is, is not illegal. Thanks for the statement that an agreement is required to be signed to document that a tenant (or is it both tenant and landlord?) to agree to comply with the laws.

[Highlander]

I can see a scenario playing out like this:

 

LEO finds out about the lock boxes and just can't stand it. They either set up their own surveillance, or they go to the owner of the establishment and request (threaten) his help to nab some crooks. We know for sure that this sort of thing has already happened at dispensaries....the owners letting cops install cameras to bust the supplying CGs.

 

They see at least 6 people take MJ out of a lock box. They see one guy put meds in and take money out.

 

I would not want to be the one on camera loading up the meds and taking out the cash.

[GregS]

thats not true. transfers between card connected individuals is not prohibited only. any other transfers are not protected from arrest and seizure. if they choose to engage in this activity.. and you provided them the place and ability... you are guilty right along with them and you will be charged. if you really don't believe me... go ask a local prosecutor what they think about it.

 

So it can be used to facilitate transfers between connected individuals. it can be used for any purpose a tenant chooses. If they sign an agreement to comply with the law, my end of the bargain has been met. It is not up to me, however. to ride herd over tenants' and their agents' comings and goings.

 

I refuse to treat grown men and women as children, and my superego is pretty well regulated.

[Restorium2]

What a lot of people who haven't run a storage facility do not know is that all storage facility managers work hand in hand with law enforcement. They ask you for help policing your tenants as they supply you with security. There is no pretending going on. The cops would know what's up in a heartbeat.

Edited March 6, 2013 by Restorium2

[phaquetoo]

I cannot explain it any more clearly mibrains.

 

Greg all I can say Is I wouldnt want to be the owner of the lockers or the building they are in, I now what you are talking about, Im thinking the daisy chain maybe the best idea to work out something like this, and we would need many diff buildings near county lines to put these at, they could not be openly advertised, or have traffic like a crack house, but if its say at a bus station or even a bowling alley that is busy all the time it would work, and I would have to think if leo did get into these lockers in seperate places they would have no one with a card to nail, unless you have to register your name to have such locker or they had good video equipment that could reconize such people!

 

I have always been for the pt/cg to the c.g/pt to the pt/cg, and every one have some one in their chain being connected to people in the next county, if you realy think about it, it could go county to county (no one would have to drive far) and than cover the whole state, and one of the best parts of a set up like that, is no one realy would hve to do w/o mm, If a pt in grand rapids is out of meds they could literaly have a choice of strains and most likely get it the same day they make it known to their c.g who is in the chain! the things we could do would be awsome, if we have any one out there in the chain who realy has overages and is compassionate, we could take care of those that have no $ or mm! There would be a whole lot more setting up to do to make it so none of us are breaking the law, I dont want to go to jail, so I dont want to break the law right here in open forum, so everything im suggesting is within the law as far as I know, I dont know about the storing in lockers though, its one of them things that is not in the law, and im the type of person at this time that likes to follow the law to the tea, I dont poop where I eat, maybe i can poop where people bowl though! lol

 

Peace

Jim

[Vinkman]

I actually was thinking of each having a seperate room and caregive/teacher has a key to each while patient/student has only the key to their room...but only 5/6 for the building to keep it legal... Some ppl cannot grow at home for different reasons...this would be a chance for them to produce their own meds...safe & legal...72 plant max and the caregiver/teacher would be the responsible party...as long as each seperate room is locked and has only 12plants...would this be legal? Would the cost of this make it un-feasable? This is my idea and I want it vetted

Edited March 6, 2013 by Vinkman

[GregS]

Several, most likely. You may ultimately be able to defend yourself, however, so there is an upside. This idea has now been beaten to death and had its bones picked clean. Can we stop now?

 

Puleeze. "Most likely" does not cut it Zap. That is speculation. Is it too much to ask for facts that support arguments?

 

I will be happy to stop when I have the facts that people are refusing to provide to support statements that are irresponsible until and unless those facts are heard and understood.

 

What charges would be brought? Running a drug house where qualified patients store their legal stash? Where people, without my knowledge, can store jewelry, legal firearms, important documents???

[SFC]

We have all told you. If you think it is legal then go do it.. Talk the talk or walk the walk...

[GregS]

What a lot of people who haven't run a storage facility do not know is that all storage facility managers work hand in hand with law enforcement. They ask you for help policing your tenants as they supply you with security. There is no pretending going on. The cops would know what's up in a heartbeat.

 

And I will smile at them and say, "Yes officer. I will be happy to help."

[SFC]

I can see (after they raid you and seize your computer) them going back and looking at this thread.. "see even his own people told him this was stupid"..

[GregS]

Greg all I can say Is I wouldnt want to be the owner of the lockers or the building they are in, I now what you are talking about, Im thinking the daisy chain maybe the best idea to work out something like this, and we would need many diff buildings near county lines to put these at, they could not be openly advertised, or have traffic like a crack house, but if its say at a bus station or even a bowling alley that is busy all the time it would work, and I would have to think if leo did get into these lockers in seperate places they would have no one with a card to nail, unless you have to register your name to have such locker or they had good video equipment that could reconize such people! I have always been for the pt/cg to the c.g/pt to the pt/cg, and every one have some one in their chain being connected to people in the next county, if you realy think about it, it could go county to county (no one would have to drive far) and than cover the whole state, and one of the best parts of a set up like that, is no one realy would hve to do w/o mm, If a pt in grand rapids is out of meds they could literaly have a choice of strains and most likely get it the same day they make it known to their c.g who is in the chain! the things we could do would be awsome, if we have any one out there in the chain who realy has overages and is compassionate, we could take care of those that have no $ or mm! There would be a whole lot more setting up to do to make it so none of us are breaking the law, I dont want to go to jail, so I dont want to break the law right here in open forum, so everything im suggesting is within the law as far as I know, I dont know about the storing in lockers though, its one of them things that is not in the law, and im the type of person at this time that likes to follow the law to the tea, I dont poop where I eat, maybe i can poop where people bowl though! lol Peace Jim

 

You make some good points phaq. I do not see this as a great, monolithic venture, but something that would work as small, unconnected, diverse, and decentralized access points for the public at large to store their legitimate property.

[GregS]

I can see (after they raid you and seize your computer) them going back and looking at this thread.. "see even his own people told him this was stupid"..

 

"...but they still cannot adequately explain who would be arrested or why."

[Restorium2]

I can see (after they raid you and seize your computer) them going back and looking at this thread.. "see even his own people told him this was stupid"..

Stecker would say that. lol

[GregS]

I can see (after they raid you and seize your computer) them going back and looking at this thread.. "see even his own people told him this was stupid"..

 

And what have I suggested that would be illegal?

[mibrains]

Puleeze. "Most likely" does not cut it Zap. That is speculation. Is it too much to ask for facts that support arguments?

 

I will be happy to stop when I have the facts that people are refusing to provide to support statements that are irresponsible until and unless those facts are heard and understood.

 

What charges would be brought? Running a drug house where qualified patients store their legal stash? Where people, without my knowledge, can store jewelry, legal firearms, important documents???

 

yes.

that will be the charge against you.

just like Bethany here.

they will charge you with conspiracy as well.

they threw the book at her.

 

i have a list somewhere of the original charges...it was unreal..

 

i had no idea such laws were even on the books.

 

they pounded her to send a message.

 

they will also pound the owners of a locker exchange system.

 

and that's what it ultimately is.

 

call it what you want, camouflage it...

it is what it is..

 

and you can and would be charged if you set it up.

 

the paperwork for a self storage facility is contractually binding on both parties.

 

however only to the extent you can prove you have no actual knowledge. if i saw them hide a stolen car.. and didn't call the police...i am guilty.

as the owners...you can not market and allow use of this system without knowledge of it happening.

 

to plead ignorance will not suffice.

 

ask Bethany.

 

or any other property owner who has been charged.

[Restorium2]

"...but they still cannot adequately explain who would be arrested or why."

You are 100% right Greg. We just need to keep pretending you are not for Stecker. So expect it to continue that you are wrong here. Just know deep down in your heart that you are right and move on.