Cease And Desist For Jackson County Dispensaries...

[SFC]

It is somewhat an elephant in the room WB, but as it stands right now one of the groups is legal and one is not. My personal take on it is as it stands right now under our law everyone is basically on even footing, nobody is going to get rich off it so there shouldn't be a hell of a lot to fight about (see ironic) but those that do put some effort into growing do have an opportunity to better themselves.

 

If we allow larger entities with money to take that away it would be a shame. We hear the dispensary advocates decry all of the jobs lost, well what about all of the hydro stores that will be lost when they steal away our grow rights? We may not be at code red yet but make no mistake I believe that is the end game for some.

 

As far as whether I am worried about losing my income stream from this? I only have three patients, I have a solid mainline business, If I could never sell my services again I will be fine. This isn't about me, it is about everyone.

Edited March 5, 2013 by SFC

[+Malamute]

 

 

The only reason cannabis is illegal now is they haven't come up with an effective way to force us to pay them for the privilege of using it.

 

 

That is a misconception. That is just what a bunch of stoners think the problem is and how we can get it legalized. No need for taxes unless commercial where you would pay sales taxes anyway without changing anything.

 

Offering up taxation is just a desperate move and begging imo.

[GregS]

Hey SFC. Who would be arrested if cannabis is stored in a private locker?

[+Malamute]

Hey Greg2,

 

with your trak record of being wrong about transfers,... why should we listen to you?

[SFC]

Greg, you are smarter than this stupid locker idea. We have already pointed out to you the major flaws in it, up to and including THE SUPREME COURT ALREADY RULED THEM OUTSIDE THE SCOPE OF THE ACT!!

[Celliach]

You have been getting high for years.

 

I appreciate your comments, but think in this case that they are speculative. Can you give us any facts to support those that suggest that the locker system can jeopardize a business please?

 

The bedsheet idea is great.

 

Seriously? If the locker idea is found to be outside the law. anyone that has them would be forfeiting the legitimate business that the lockers are inside of.

 

Did I really need to explain that to you?

[GregS]

Who would be arrested? You made the statement.

 

McQueen was decided on transfer issues that involved unauthorized people. There are none of those entanglements here.

 

Seriously? If the locker idea is found to be outside the law. anyone that has them would be forfeiting the legitimate business that the lockers are inside of.

 

Did I really need to explain that to you?

 

Only if you have facts.

 

Which brings us back to Resto's insistence that in operating this system I would somehow break the chain of custody. Houabout it? How would that happen?

Edited March 6, 2013 by mibrains

[+Malamute]

I would say, instead of trying to convince us,... just do it and let us know how it goes. :-)

[TheHarvester]

Are we concerned about patient supply or are we concerned about losing our small market share?

 

You ask some great questions Bill.

[phaquetoo]

I know. I first thought of the idea back in the late 70s. I was young, broke, and naive. Somebody else that was in a better position than I started making them in the early 90s.

 

I was the first person to do an extract oil, how come it isnt name PUTO = Phaq ue, too. oil! I played the lottery this yr, I buy 2 tickets a yr I

check to see if they are winners when I buy my new one every 6 months!

 

 

man 14 new posts while im writing this post lol

 

Peace

Jim

[phaquetoo]

Greg..

 

thank you for engaging me tonight..

 

i can say without a doubt i absolutely appreciate everyone's perspective.

 

some people say we chase people off... that we are not "fair" that some of us gang up and attack other people.

 

i submit many here argue with intense passion.

 

in the old days a person with a dissenting opinion would be banned.

 

nowadays we stand tall...

 

argue aggressively.

 

and attempt to counter anything we feel is appropriate.

 

nobody is banned for expressing themselves constructively.

 

those who speak of injustice now are those who cannot support their argument to its fullest and finite position.

 

we allow most discussions to finish.

 

so in the regard of our discussion, i appreciate your input and want to say thank you for expressing your position and thoughts in such a constructive manner.

 

it is nice to have discussions in a productive manner.

 

Most definatly I see threads left open to try and get a grip on them, to let people get it out of their systems, Ive seen em closed and zap open them, to let the just stop on there own, I applaud that! John you been one of the most common sense mods around for a long time, zap, I like how you let things kewl off on there own, we may want to think of encouraging a few edits by some members at tmes, but only on a volunteer basis, if they get to out of hand, well just do what you have to do, we need this site to get back in order, we realy need to put our arguments where they belong, when some one is taking a pole and it may be contraversial, well lets get pissed in there, not in a site where we need to be talking about plans and ways we may be able to help new pt's and c.g's Remeber them days? I do, every one I know that has an mm card I met in here! No kidding, well ive met a few out here in the real world, but I have no friends in the program, they are waiting for all out legal and still wont give there name to anyone lol!

 

Peace

Jim

Edited March 5, 2013 by phaquetoo

[Wild Bill]

That is a misconception. That is just what a bunch of stoners think the problem is and how we can get it legalized. No need for taxes unless commercial where you would pay sales taxes anyway without changing anything.

 

Offering up taxation is just a desperate move and begging imo.

 

I agree up to the point about not thinking taxes plays into legalization. Polls in Colorado and Washington indicate that the revenue was the deciding factor for many of the voters.

 

But I agree that offering them any concession at all is an immensely bad idea. Our law works now (or should I say, it will when it is finally implemented).

[bobandtorey]

 

 

If there were anything to that, storage facilities would not exist. Please do not suggest that contraband and stolen goods are not stored in those units. The locker system as I have considered it does not require that cannbis be stored, or for that matter overtly recommend that it be stored. Warrants would be required if authorities demand to inspect the contents. Tenants are not required to store cannabis, and it is entirely within the confines of the law to store permitted amounts in a private, locked space. The boyzgrrlz in Mt. Pleasant made the mistake of getting into the chain of custody between a cg and (in that case any) patient or between any two patients. We can learn from that. This is an entirely different animal.

 

Consider that keyed storage lockers are available at every bowling alley, bus station, YMCA, ski facility, and inside the front doors of the Saginaw County Courthouse (where I have had occasion to store cannabis and parapharnelia). The lockers I suggest are intended for any storage purpose, and privacy and confidentiality, just as they are in those other instances, are attractive components.

 

Warrants would be required if authorities demand to inspect the contents LOL sure thing

 

(Leo) Waite till the warrant comes

[mibrains]

Most definatly I see threads left open to try and get a grip on them, to let people get it out of their systems, Ive seen em closed and zap open them, to let the just stop on there own, I applaud that! John you been one of the most common sense mods around for a long time, zap, I like how you let things kewl off on there own, we may want to think of encouraging a few edits by some members at tmes, but only on a volunteer basis, if they get to out of hand, well just do what you have to do, we need this site to get back in order, we realy need to put our arguments where they belong, when some one is taking a pole and it may be contraversial, well lets get pissed in there, not in a site where we need to be talking about plans and ways we may be able to help new pt's and c.g's Remeber them days? I do, every one I know that has an mm card I met in here! No kidding, well ive met a few out here in the real world, but I have no friends in the program, they are waiting for all out legal and still wont give there name to anyone lol!

 

Peace

Jim

 

thank you Jim for the kind words...

 

we are all trying very hard to make this a wonderful place full of good information.

[bobandtorey]

 

 

I agree up to the point about not thinking taxes plays into legalization. Polls in Colorado and Washington indicate that the revenue was the deciding factor for many of the voters.

 

But I agree that offering them any concession at all is an immensely bad idea. Our law works now (or should I say, it will when it is finally implemented).

Our law works now (or should I say, it will when it is finally implemented). Now you have it right and that's why they are fighting so hard for it not to work (implemente)

 

[TheHarvester]

Greg,

Can you explain the locker idea or at least some basic high level view of it? This sounds like the Daisy Chain Pyramid thing again with the lockers now being added to the original idea. I apologize if this is incorrect, I would like to understand what you propose.

[GregS]

Hey Greg2,

 

with your trak record of being wrong about transfers,... why should we listen to you?

 

Because Bo did not alway win, but he suure loved the game.

[GregS]

Greg,

Can you explain the locker idea or at least some basic high level view of it? This sounds like the Daisy Chain Pyramid thing again with the lockers now being added to the original idea. I apologize if this is incorrect, I would like to understand what you propose.

 

Thanks for the interest, and I had hoped that earlier explanations would suffice. Sorry if I was not clear enough.

 

The premise is that an operator can and should provide secure, private, storage boxes for tenants to store whatever they wish, and without any expressed expectation or requirement that tenants store marijuana. These lockers would be available to anyone to store anything that will fit, to include registration paperwork, jewelry, cannabis, bowling shoes, your lunch, or anything else you would find value in storing in a convenient place. If you were a tenant who has rented a locker, and were to agree to permit another individual access to it that could be arraged between the two of you. The operator who provides the locker rental would have no reason to be involved with the nature of the goings on. THAT would remain solely between you and anyone you know who might agree to share access to the contents. My recommendation is to use Master combination locks that permit changing the combination at will. Patients and their caregivers, as well as people who store and share lockers everywhere, to include a bowling ball that a friend finds works for him as well as a tenant, can store and retrieve anything they agree on.

 

It is essential that a proprietor, owner, or manager be out of the loop and unconcerned regarding what tenants store. In doing that, and remaining uninvolved as long as the rents are paid and there is no apparent damage to the owner's property, in this case the lockers and physical property involved, the management is protected by a full body of law regarding storage facilities, which does exist and is an important consideration for any storage facility owner, and provides protection to owners. Those considerations include protections from civil and criminal liability for any illegal actions of their tenants that the proprietor is unaware of. For instance if a person were to rent a storage shed in a local storage facility and store a stolen auto, the storage facility owner is protected from criminal arrest and prosecution. If the renter of the unit agrees to permit someone else access, that is not the proprietor's business. Responsibility for what is stored is solely the tenant's. If they choose to store household goods, sporting equipment, or legally possessed cannabis is inconsequential to the storage facility operator.

 

These locker facilities are likely not profitable enough by themselves. But adding them to a business as an extra service can prove to be profitable in other ways. As an attraction to draw people into your business to enjoy, say a coffee lounge that is open to the public, and a separate private area that is available for patients for their common enjoyment might be a killer applicatiation. Daisy chain registration can help immensely, but is not absolutely necessary

 

I hope this explains well enough. If not, please continue.

Edited March 6, 2013 by GregS

[GregS]

Who would be arrested Chuck? You made the statement.

 

McQueen was decided on transfer issues that involved unauthorized people. There are none of those entanglements here.

 

Celli. Only if you have facts.

 

Which brings us back to Resto's insistence that in operating this system I would somehow break the chain of custody. Houabout it Jim? How would that happen?

 

I'm waiting.

 

Please resopnd soon. Otherwise we will have to conclude that your arguments are without merit. Whatever are you guys gonna do now that nothing but facts can back your arguments?

Edited March 6, 2013 by GregS

[mibrains]

i guess i still don't understand why...

 

why would i need that.

 

as a caregiver.

 

i can understand your premise that the owner would not be able to know of anything illegal happening...

 

but as a caregiver why would i need this service?

 

what one rational explanation would answer that?

 

with a 5 patient limit. why would i need to store anything... with or without the property owners knowledge?

 

i don't see how this helps patients... in any way.

 

i don't see a reason that's protected under MMMA that is...

 

i see a hundred ways to facilitate a non connected transfer.

 

i see a hundred ways to store "overages"

 

i see ways to hide and skirt the known safety of the act... but i don't see any marketability on the upside?

 

what am i missing?

 

what is the draw?

 

why?

 

why would a caregiver need this service for any legitimate reason?

[GregS]

I cannot explain it any more clearly mibrains.

[mibrains]

i think your saying it is to facilitate a non connected transfer.

 

is that all that this is ultimately about?

 

i am asking a simple question. what is the draw or desire for a patient or caregiver?

 

it should be very easy to answer...

 

if there is a legitimate answer...

 

however i dont sense a legitimate answer involved...

 

so barring any further legislation.... this seems to be a bad idea.

 

to transfer through a locker system... to hide your meds.. to allow access by someone you are not connected to... is all bad.

 

and won't stand the test of time.

 

i only ask for one simple legitimate reason a caregiver would want or need to pay for this storage ability...not an explanation of how the owner of the property might not know it's happening..

[GregS]

It is not intended to provide a venue for illegal conduct. It is intended to earn rents.

 

If you find no value in it, then by all means do not use it.

Edited March 6, 2013 by GregS

[mibrains]

It is not intended to provide a venue for illegal conduct. It is intended to earn rents.

 

how?

 

how and why does it gain rents?

 

who needs it?

 

your skirting my question yet again...

 

i see value in it.. if it is about facilitating transfers to non-connected patients.

 

just be real about it.

 

it is intended to provide a venue for illegal conduct. there is no other legitimate reason. and any prosecutor will see that.

 

there is no feasible reason a caregiver would need to rent storage space to deliver medicine to a connected patient.

 

any attempt to hide behind the "i didn't know what they were doing" excuse would never hold up in court... a prosecutor would quickly see through this and attempt to bring charges..

 

i am asking out of concern for people who might be persuaded this is a good idea Greg. not because i dont wanna use a system like this.

 

i support patient to any carded patient transfers.

 

period.

 

if the courts agreed with me... this would be a wonderful venue..idea.. and place to facilitate this...

 

the courts do not agree with me.

 

this system is not safe as presented.

 

no one should trust any system that cannot be fully vetted.

[GregS]

If you wish to use it as an option to deliver medicine to a connected patient, I would welcome you, but not be interested in your purpose or the nature of what is stored, just as I would not be interested in anyone else's purpose or the nature of what they have stored. I am interested whether you or others will pay their rent on time and that you will not damage my property.