Hartwick And Tuttle Amicus Briefs Filed On Behalf Of Mmma And Cpu

[Restorium2]

 felonies solely because of alleged technical violations of Michigan's Act premised

 

on issues relating to a spouse or immediate family member.  It is CPU's position that the spousal relationship is of such a nature that it must

 

be granted the strongest protections this court can fashion. 

 

^^^ That's the context of what I was writing about ....

[GregS]

It's the heart of the issue in a nutshell. Sorry if it's a little too simple to fit with what you are looking for. 

So then you have no authoritative sources for your statements. Your speculation is noted.

[GregS]

 

 felonies solely because of alleged technical violations of Michigan's Act premised

 

on issues relating to a spouse or immediate family member.  It is CPU's position that the spousal relationship is of such a nature that it must

 

be granted the strongest protections this court can fashion. 

 

^^^ That's the context of what I was writing about ....

 

I read that. What's your point? It is speculative and without any apparent sound legal reasoning. Is that to much to ask for?

[GregS]

I disagree, no evidence shows that she was helping cultivate. She wrote some words on a sticky note.

That would be something for the court to decide. My take is that writing that note was intended to facilitate cultivation in tandem with her husband for both he and his patients. What else can it be called? For what purpose was the note intended? They are not meaningless words and characters, but are specific to maintaining crops.

Edited February 12, 2015 by GregS

[t-pain]

its evidence that she helped her husband write a note. i think is the point.

 

as-in, it does not matter what she wrote, her only job was to write something for a crippled man who could not write a note.

[GregS]

its evidence that she helped her husband write a note. i think is the point.

 

as-in, it does not matter what she wrote, her only job was to write something for a crippled man who could not write a note.

I do not see any facts to support that notion t-pain. Please note that her husband testified that he harvested the crops. Hardly a severely crippled man who cannot write. He also testified that his wife did "log some dates regarding harvesting." He states that he wanted to document when each plant was cut down, which patient it was for,  and when it would be dry/usable. Because his hands were sticky, he asked that his wife make those notations. That is assisting him with his cultivation and for his other patients, no matter how you slice it.

Edited February 12, 2015 by GregS

[t-pain]

you are asserting that a note is part of cultivation and not merely paraphrenalia?

i am not sure a plant requires a sticky note to survive

 

anyways i think we agree, questions of fact , either from a sec4 or sec8 motion, go to a jury to decide.

Edited February 12, 2015 by t-pain

[GregS]

Wife's hands were not sticky = not assisting in cultivation.

 

Have you ever harvested marijuana?

Running a grow often requires note taking. It is certainly a part of cultivation when used in this fashion, and yes.

[GregS]

you are asserting that a note is part of cultivation and not merely paraphrenalia?

i am not sure a plant requires a sticky note to survive

 

anyways i think we agree, questions of fact , either from a sec4 or sec8 motion, go to a jury to decide.

When the note specifies times and purposes for crops to be maintained while they grow then yes, it is cultivation. Even if it is paraphernalia it is paraphernalia in support of cultivation, and a part of that. I agree that this will come down to a sec. 8 defense. Her husband was connected with his patients through the registry. Because she was not, sec. 4 cannot play.

Edited February 12, 2015 by GregS

[t-pain]

thats the point of the case greg, if its paraphernalia, then its protected in sec4g. even if its for cultivation.

 

(f) "Medical use" means the acquisition, possession, cultivation, manufacture, use, internal possession, delivery, transfer, or transportation of marihuana or paraphernalia relating to the administration of marihuana to treat or alleviate a registered qualifying patient's debilitating medical condition or symptoms associated with the debilitating medical condition.

 

(g) A person shall not be subject to arrest, prosecution, or penalty in any manner, or denied any right or privilege, including but not limited to civil penalty or disciplinary action by a business or occupational or professional licensing board or bureau, for providing a registered qualifying patient or a registered primary caregiver with marihuana paraphernalia for purposes of a qualifying patient's medical use of marihuana.

[GregS]

I completely disagree. You are running fast and loose with the term "cultivation," and in a bizarre direction. Not sure why.

 

I knew you had harvested marijuana. Your hands got sticky, no? If he instead asked for a sandwich or a drink of water, would she be assisting in cultivation?

I guess we're at loggerheads. A farmer keeps records of his/her operations as an aid to cultivation. There are other purposes, but it cannot be denied that they are intended to help to bring in the crop.

[GregS]

We'll see.

[t-pain]

er i'm stupid.

 

zap, do you think the supreme court will accept mazur for appeal?

or will they just make a note in tuttle/hartwick about 4g/4i so the trial court re-hears it?

Edited February 12, 2015 by t-pain

[t-pain]

seems like they will have to grant leave on the case then?

and open for amicus briefs?

 

http://courts.mi.gov/opinions_orders/case_search/pages/default.aspx?SearchType=1&CaseNumber=149290&CourtType_CaseNumber=1

 

unless its possible that they can give opinions on cases without granting application. i have no clue...

call the court clerk and ask him/her whats up?

Edited February 12, 2015 by t-pain

[trichcycler]

well that's it!  My wife will not be allowed to

 

1) roll up my garden hose when I'm finished, or even turn it on for me

2) wash my poly grow pots or trays

3) write a check to pay for my grow room electricity, specifically, and separately.

4) stop in the grow store to gets me some rapid rooters once in awhile

5) buy me rolling papers when needed.

6) rub tincture on my spine

[Restorium2]

well that's it!  My wife will not be allowed to

 

1) roll up my garden hose when I'm finished, or even turn it on for me

2) wash my poly grow pots or trays

3) write a check to pay for my grow room electricity, specifically, and separately.

4) stop in the grow store to gets me some rapid rooters once in awhile

5) buy me rolling papers when needed.

6) rub tincture on my spine

Got a citation for that? Couldn't resist... lol

[GregS]

Got a citation for that? Couldn't resist... lol

That's petty.

[Restorium2]

That's petty.

Trying to lighten things up. Laugh a little ...

[GregS]

Trying to lighten things up. Laugh a little ...

We need to share a fatty.

[YesMichigan]

well that's it!  My wife will not be allowed to

 

1) roll up my garden hose when I'm finished, or even turn it on for me

2) wash my poly grow pots or trays

3) write a check to pay for my grow room electricity, specifically, and separately.

4) stop in the grow store to gets me some rapid rooters once in awhile

5) buy me rolling papers when needed.

6) rub tincture on my spine

 

So now we know how little you really do around the house?

 

In fairness, she can still buy you rolling papers and they won't be construed as paraphernalia as long as you have some loose tobacco available for use in them.

 

Citation: http://www.michigan.gov/documents/dleg/Narcotic_Paraphernalia_Web_Info_9-032_247602_7.pdf

 

What is drug paraphernalia to the State? http://www.legislature.mi.gov/%28S%28t5y2uv45erqh14jmj1smsmi3%29%29/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-333-7451

 

333.7451 “Drug paraphernalia” defined.

 

As used in sections 7453 to 7461 and section 7521, “drug paraphernalia” means any equipment, product, material, or combination of equipment, products, or materials, which is specifically designed for use in planting; propagating; cultivating; growing; harvesting; manufacturing; compounding; converting; producing; processing; preparing; testing; analyzing; packaging; repackaging; storing; containing; concealing; injecting, ingesting, inhaling, or otherwise introducing into the human body a controlled substance; including, but not limited to, all of the following:

 

This illustrates (to me) the slippery slope of agreeing the note represents "Paraphernalia" if I (as a Prosecutor) agree it is paraphernalia then I can assert it was paraphernalia SPECIFICALLY designed (the printing of the words and their meaning on the paper demonstrate a clear correlation to the cultivation occurring at the premises) for use in one of the activities associated under "Planting" thus cultivating is back in.

 

Now we get to Rest's assertion of "Spousal Privilege" in a dangerous attempt to paraphrase him:

 

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/%28S%28fww2v0bz5tavo5icdukab245%29%29/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-600-2162

 

600.2162 Husband or wife as witness for or against other.

 

Sec. 2162.

 

(7) Except as otherwise provided in subsection (3), a married person or a person who has been married previously shall not be examined in a criminal prosecution as to any communication made between that person and his or her spouse or former spouse during the marriage without the consent of the person to be examined.

 

The nature of the communication is between the formerly married people. I don't see a valid reason subsection 7 wouldn't apply as no conditions of 3a-f are in contention. The damage to the public was not of such a nature to destroy a sacred facet of spousal law in Michigan. Husbands and wives write things down for each other - this is a common form of "communication".

[medmanmike]

If the note is associated with marijuana at all, it is paraphernalia, at best. I think it is not associated with marijuana at all, nor does it indicate real participation of any sort; it is a sticky note upon which a husband asked his wife to write things of which she had no knowledge.

Serious question: what about watering cans? Dowel rods to support top-heavy plants? Nutes? A fan? Paraphanelia or cultivation tools?

 

I'm not trying to be funny! I really want to know.

[medmanmike]

Whoops-shoulda read ahead before posting my question to Zap.

 

Thanks, YesMi!

Edited February 12, 2015 by medmanmike

[t-pain]

the supreme court goes over this in the mazur oral arguments, you can listen to the mp3 here

 

http://courts.mi.gov/Courts/MichiganSupremeCourt/oral-arguments/2014-2015/Pages/149290.aspx

Edited February 12, 2015 by t-pain

[+Malamute]

Greg,

 

 We are seeking a liberal view of spousal rights.  It's worth asking for. :-)

[GregS]

Greg,

 

 We are seeking a liberal view of spousal rights.  It's worth asking for. :-)

I have no problem with that, am not aware of any legal theory that would support it, and have seen no authoritative means to establish it.