If Anyone Is Interested In Collecting Signatures...

[trichcycler]

I see that point, but gathering a bunch of sigs, for a bill that will in the end screw us if passed,, seems a back step to me.. IDK

...like investing cash into a company stock scheme, knowing they are anti cannabis ? big pharma, etc

[trichcycler]

maybe we forgot about the tiny two flowering plant grow room.

 

 

 

patients can grow 12, but recreational users can grow 2? is that correct?

[Wild Bill]

In order to effectively tax and regulate then ALL GROWING OUTSIDE OF OFFICIAL FACILITIES MUST BE PROHIBITED!

 

If not how will they collect their taxes? How will they regulate the grows if everyone can grow? How will they know who is growing?

 

They are taking what they know about liquor sales, something they're familiar with, and applying it to cannabis.

 

Have you tried making your own moonshine lately?

 

You can do it legally if you can navigate all the Federal requirements and pay the fees. Same - same. They want to just plug in "marihuana" where the laws now say "liquor". So much easier to control.

[cristinew]

ALL GROWING OUTSIDE OF OFFICIAL FACILITIES MUST BE PROHIBITED!  for who?  patients caregivers  dispensaries  non medical?  where is this quoted in the laws  Again please show me, 

 

You can brew beer  and wine  , 

[cristinew]

maybe we forgot about the tiny two flowering plant grow room.

 

 

 

patients can grow 12, but recreational users can grow 2? is that correct?

read the two petitions  

[trichcycler]

I did, was wondering if every poster in the thread did too?

[Wild Bill]

ALL GROWING OUTSIDE OF OFFICIAL FACILITIES MUST BE PROHIBITED!  for who?  patients caregivers  dispensaries  non medical?  where is this quoted in the laws  Again please show me, 

 

You can brew beer  and wine  ,

 

It's not in the law, it's the only logical outcome to "tax and regulate".

 

The only way they can effectively tax and regulate production is to first know where said production takes place. If every home is a potential grow site how will they keep track of them all?

 

It would become necessary to institute some kind of permit framework to do this. A simple amendment is all that's needed. Something to the effect of, "all medical grows shall be registered with the State and be subject to random inspection". That will solve their problem of keeping tabs on medical growers.

Then they can drop in unannounced and it's business as usual.

 

All non medical growers will be subject to licensing or just cut out entirely by big business.

 

I'm not saying that it's in the law or the petitions but you can bet it's in the minds of those seeking to monopolize the industry.

 

They can't tax what they don't know exists so they need to keep track of it all.

How else can they do it?

 

BTW,home brewing of beer and wine has only been permitted nationwide since 1978 and I would again invite you to start up a home still then call the cops and let them know it's there.

 

It wasn't too long ago people were saying farmers markets were the wave of the future and the big corporations wouldn't be interested. Do you think that mindset might be a little off now that we know for certain that there is big money seeking only ten grow sites?

[+Malamute]

It would become necessary to institute some kind of permit framework to do this. A simple amendment is all that's needed. Something to the effect of, "all medical grows shall be registered with the State and be subject to random inspection". That will solve their problem of keeping tabs on medical growers.

Then they can drop in unannounced and it's business as usual.

 

 

They(Police, Prosecutors, MML, MTA) try to get that amendment everytime there is a meeting about medical marijuana.  Without fail.

 

That concept is not hypothesis.  It has occurred for almost 7 years straight. 

 

 Always fighting them back.  Never ending.  They want inspections very very bad.  AND the exact location of every single grow.

 

Until Federal law changes especially, it is not an option. Ugh.

 

I think people are forgetting what it is like to have an actual "drug war" president.  Stuff could become very different and we still need anonymity of some degree and the protection of numbers.  It is easy to stop 100 grows. It is impossible to stop 100,000 grows.

 

But other than that, I am still voting for MCC and MILegalize if they make the ballot.  Still to be seen.

[bobandtorey]

Random inspection ?

 

They wanted that back in 2008-09 in Lansing when they where making up the rules for the MMMA but back then the $$ wasn't there to do it now that the program has made them a lot of cash 

 

by people getting cards 

 

I think it's going on already by Leo some just let them in to count plants  and some want a warrant before they come inn 

[Restorium2]

We will never have it better than we do now. Never. No one should be surprised that people who pay attention are leery of any changes. We have an elephant balanced on the head of a pin. For years now. With a bad governor, a bad attorney general, and a terrible legislature. It's actually a Michigan Miracle we grow at all. So let's Make A Deal. I'll trade my grow rights for whatever is behind door number 3......

 

I'm enjoying not having to buy my cannabis from anyone. I admit I've got it made. At least I understand the magnitude of what I'm enjoying. Some would characterize what I treasure as something to be balled up and thrown in the trash at a whim. Those are the folks running the show with legalization on all sides.

[bobandtorey]

They(Police, Prosecutors, MML, MTA) try to get that amendment everytime there is a meeting about medical marijuana.  Without fail.

 

That concept is not hypothesis.  It has occurred for almost 7 years straight. 

 

 Always fighting them back.  Never ending.  They want inspections very very bad.  AND the exact location of every single grow.

 

Until Federal law changes especially, it is not an option. Ugh.

 

I think people are forgetting what it is like to have an actual "drug war" president.  Stuff could become very different and we still need anonymity of some degree and the protection of numbers.  It is easy to stop 100 grows. It is impossible to stop 100,000 grows.

 

But other than that, I am still voting for MCC and MILegalize if they make the ballot.  Still to be seen.

 

 

you mean Testing ?

[Restorium2]

you mean Testing ?

No, INSPECTIONS AT THE GROW ADDRESS. You know, your house.

[bobandtorey]

We will never have it better than we do now. Never. No one should be surprised that people who pay attention are leery of any changes. We have an elephant balanced on the head of a pin. For years now. With a bad governor, a bad attorney general, and a terrible legislature. It's actually a Michigan Miracle we grow at all. So let's Make A Deal. I'll trade my grow rights for whatever is behind door number 3......

 

I'm enjoying not having to buy my cannabis from anyone. I admit I've got it made. At least I understand the magnitude of what I'm enjoying. Some would characterize what I treasure as something to be balled up and thrown in the trash at a whim. Those are the folks running the show with legalization on all sides.

 

 

We will never have it better than we do now 

 

I can agree to that for sure but i don't think all the people can the ones that are in Court can not

 

Leo wants it back the way it was  before Law one of 08 

[bobandtorey]

No, INSPECTIONS AT THE GROW ADDRESS. You know, your house.

 

 

My house is always open if it's not they can break down the door as they do most times 

[t-pain]

But other than that, I am still voting for MCC and MILegalize if they make the ballot.  Still to be seen.

are you worried about mcc not protecting drivers from ng limits?

[cristinew]

The statute also will reduce the penalty for using marijuana in a public place to a $100 civil fine. Under previous Delaware law, simple marijuana possession was a misdemeanor punishable by up to six months in jail and a maximum fine of $1,150.

The law takes effect in six months. Markell, a Democrat, signed the measure almost immediately after the state Senate, voting along party lines, gave it final legislative approval on Thursday.

According to the Journal, the Democratic-backed bill cleared the state Legislature without a single Republican vote in either the House or Senate.      Off topic  but someone said republicans and dems are the same 

[bobandtorey]

are you worried about mcc not protecting drivers from ng limits?

 

There is no ng limits in Mich as of yet

[+Malamute]

are you worried about mcc not protecting drivers from ng limits?

 

There is no ng limits in Mich as of yet

 

 

 TPain, although I truly appreciate the forbiddance of NG limits in the MiLegalize language, I do not think it matters because they will do what they want to do in the legislature on this issue.

 

Bobandtorey, Michigan is zero tolerance for active thc right now. A Ng limit in Michigan would actually be an improvement. Not that agree at ALL with it and I regularly get in heated discussions about the Ng limit,... it would be an improvement currently.

[t-pain]

ohio sounds like its going to ban monopolies before responsible ohio's vote.

 

do you think michigan legislature will do something similar to block mcc's language ?

 

 

also, recently there are rumors about removing local control from many parts of the HRA. for instance, the ability of a city to mandate minimum wage. do you think they will go further and mandate a city's ability to change decrim/legalization or dispensary rules?

 

it seems like a pretty big nail to hinge the whole marijuana thing on. what if the legislature kills the home rule act ? when the legislature gets tired of local control they will destroy it.

 

or maybe they go the other way and say that the locals CAN NOW override the MMMA? all of those ordinances that the MML has been scheming up with schuette ? about banning caregivers and plants in sheds etc? they keep telling us it "doesnt apply to patients" ... yeah not YET. one little change could end all of that.

 

the sky is indeed falling. but i'm still not worried about the future, only the present.

[+Malamute]

That's government for ya. :-)

 

 To not be active and informed is a failure of American social duty.

[Restorium2]

In a situation like this you have to weigh the risks against the rewards.

 

Risks:

1. Inspections of your home where you grow.

2. Mandatory testing for every bit of cannabis that changes hands.

3. Loss of grow rights for patients and caregivers due to the warehouse grows wanting to eliminate all other sources. Bound to happen sooner or later.

 

Rewards: ????

1. Every reward has to be OK'ed by Schuette before it can even happen. So ask him what he likes.

 

It's obvious to me the only people who would support these initiatives either have nothing to lose or have not went to the scale to weigh it. 

 

I'm gonna vote yes to anything cannabis related on the ballot because it makes me feel good and it looks and sounds good. WOOHOO, lets have a big arse party!

[bobandtorey]

 TPain, although I truly appreciate the forbiddance of NG limits in the MiLegalize language, I do not think it matters because they will do what they want to do in the legislature on this issue.

 

Bobandtorey, Michigan is zero tolerance for active thc right now. A Ng limit in Michigan would actually be an improvement. Not that agree at ALL with it and I regularly get in heated discussions about the Ng limit,... it would be an improvement currently.

 

 

Thanks

 

But didn't the high court say Leo must  prove impairment first ?    

[purple pimpernel]

Look at it this way.....it dosesnt really legalize anything except commercial distribution

 

It doesnt remove penalities...it will add more restrictictions as there will be commerce now and the legislation will have to add more rules like every other 'legal' [sic] state

 

Somthing they dont tell you is that if these legalization efforts pass they allready have every cg on lists....easy to tax track and monitor if you dont comply

It will mean if you are growing for anyone else besides yourself...like the entities that will be distributing large volume

You will have new rules to comply with

 

It will also establish a marijuana enforcement division of law enforcement to do compliance checks and monitor as much as possible to find anyone outside the rules or not complying

 

The black market also explodes once legalization goes online

Its really the 20-30somthings that are fearLess and dont really follow any rules anyway...

 

So if you are growing for anyone else you may be facing new rules against yourself

 

For the record i am NOT a cg...nor do i have a grow right now

 

I was a cg last year to numerous people....i would cg @-their house

Since none of them knew what they were doing

 

I work every day as a skilled tradesman and cg IS NOT a 'highly profitable' path to follow unles you are a master grower and know all the pitfalls...not most i have seen

 

 

The only thing legalization will do is legalize commercial distribution and grows

first step in control and eliminatin of the problems they have to deal with with growers....>us<

 

This gives no new rights except the ability to purchase now from high priced grow shops

 

As medical is a back door to legalization

 

Legalization is a back door to corporatization and monopolization

 

Unless you understand hegillian dialectic you are not really understanding the logic involved...period

 

It gives no new rights we dont allready have with all the initiatives that have passed in most larger cities.

 

If you live in the country and you think this is the answer for MORE grow rights ....it will if you have the licensing fees and are able to pay for all the legal costs involved in setting up a store front....and their will be huge fees to keep most except those with big bucks out

 

There allready is harborside here in mich in ann arbor....big $ backing

 

-add in the criminal elements in detroit up on 8mile that take a driver license to purchase...

Most of the stores now are just fighting for market share...thats all

Nothing for patients....go to one and NOT buy anything and see how pissy they get

 

If the all offered terminal pts FREE medicine and offered FREE cbd as they do out west i would think different

They dont tell you that here and want to capitalize on the sick and dying...thats 'compassion'...?

-right

 

After having been closly involved in a couple other legalization efforts in other states the main thing you have to realize is it benefits the distributors MORE than pts or cgs....in fact it mostly creates animosity between cgs and distributors and creates monopolies....

 

Its just a first step in monopolizing and corporatizing the whole system....

We have it better now than we ever will as stated by some that are paying attention and 'awake'...the rest of you have no idea what you are voting for

 

Its not 'Repealing' the laws and giving you more freedom like you think

Its actually creating more rules and will only benefit the commercial distributors because they have the $ to pay the lawyers leading this

 

Also mich DOES indeed have a zero tolerance bob and if your caught dui you automatically lose your license 6 months

A new legalization law will maen they will have to impose a new set of rules and with the legislation we have now i dont trust them at all

 

Shuette by the way will never be govenor...after what hes done

Hes got a hard on for cannabis folks....

 

Legalization is a back door to corporatization and monopolization of whats left of our rights and law

 

If we would just have the law 'implimented' the way we voted for it would be much better than legalization

Problem is the legislation wants legalization to happen as they know what comes next

 

This is why we have seen a deliberate effort to oppose and re-interpret the plain language we voted for

 

I would say a Repeal effort would be the best approach period

Mich was the first state to repeal alcohol prohibition and we 'could' be the first to repeal pot prohibition but i dont see that with all the big $ vying for the monopoly

 

Most of these store owner dummies dont realize there were over 1000 storefronts in denver alone when legalization happened

Even more if you count boulder and surrounding areas

It dropped to like 400 within a month or so...only the big $ ones were able to pay all the fees and stay open and in compliance

 

You want dispensaries?

Most dont even understand how the first ones got started,....

 

They were pt groupss networking in every county...NOT a few trying to sell to the many

 

Legalization is not for me or most folks i know ...but it wont effect me one way or other

 

Ive had my card since 2000 and never had to show it ever....and i dont break laws anymore

Im too old...i try and follow them....thats why i have cards in multiple states

 

Why dont we have a national card ...?

Why do we have to have a card in every state we frequent-live-visit

 

The legalization is hegillian dialectic that will only benefit the few leading this

I say let the stores stay on their own...we have to follow rules but they dont

 

Thats all their after....us to legitimize [them] thru legalization....period

Once they get what they want watch whats left of your rights change

Edited June 21, 2015 by purple pimpernel

[trichcycler]

I was just going to say that !^^^^

 

btw, do tell of this 2000 card, everyone I know had to wait till 2008.

 

good day sir

[+Malamute]

Thanks

 

But didn't the high court say Leo must  prove impairment first ?    

 

For Patients only.