Just Sacrificed A Plant To The Borg...

[Restorium2]

sorry for how jumpy the video is... its a PITA to move a leaf under magnification because its all opposite

 

look at all them eggs...

 

that plant is one that i sprayed the hell out of with ice water not what 16 hours ago?  and then nuked with co2. 

 

that leaf is off a plant that is due to harvest in 11 days.

 

the other 2 videos are leaves from the veg room.  the long video is the flower room leaf.

Waiting 16 hours gives them too much time to re group. The trick is to catch it early and hammer them at least three times a day until harvest. It's grueling if you have weeks to go. 

[mibrains]

Waiting 16 hours gives them too much time to re group. The trick is to catch it early and hammer them at least three times a day until harvest. It's grueling if you have weeks to go. 

 

i have no problem doing it..

i didnt this am because of my discovery..

however the past 48 hours have seen 3 a day ice sprays in both rooms...

 

today i decided to scope them and i see that these treatments seem to be having no effect..well not enough effect.

 

i will wash them again shortly because i am burning daylight here..

 

but i am not confident.

 

i have no choice with the plants within 30 days of harvest... but to use a passive wash system.. however the rest of them girls need some d a m n nuclear bomb type poisons.

 

i am a organic farmer by nature.. it pains me to use anything noxious.

[Restorium2]

1/3 iso alcohol in the water spray. Get a pump up sprayer. This is war soldier. 

[Restorium2]

 however the rest of them girls need some d a m n nuclear bomb type poisons.

 

No point in a scorched Earth attempt at revenge. You could even damage your genetics. 

[Wild Bill]

I just ran across this tidbit I'd never seen before.

 

Adult females have the ability to go dormant for a time after the photoperiod (daily hours of light) shortens, then re-emerge to lay more eggs a few weeks after the photoperiod lengthens again. That's one reason Spider Mites keep reappearing crop after crop on indoor plants. 

 

Over eons of time, spider-mites have learned to go dormant when the length of hours of daylight start getting lower, seemingly aware that cold temperatures will soon follow. Other factors enter into it, such as temperature, but photo-period appears to be the main cause.

 

The specific amount of hours of daylight required to bring on dormancy varies according to latitude (farther north, where it gets cold early, they go dormant sooner), but it's somewhere in the neighborhood of 13 hours a day of light everywhere.

 

They don't all go into diapause at that same exact time, either, as individual spider-mites have quite a variance in their response to these stimulations. This ensures that if there's an early winter some will already be in hiding, and if it's a normal or late winter, some die-hard spider-mites are still there munching on plants as long as possible, but generally, they tend to go dormant at daylengths lower than about 13 hours a day. It's a system that's worked real well for spider-mite survival, and virtually guarantees that spider-mites will be a continuing problem for gardeners. Come spring, when the number of hours of daylight increases above their trigger-threshold, they come back out, turn normal color, and resume all normal spider-mite activities, ready for a new season of eating plants.

 

 

Unfortunately for indoor gardeners, spider-mites don't necessarily go through this same cycle when they're inside heated indoor and greenhouse environments, so a wintertime reprieve from their damage can't be counted on. That's because, just as cold temperatures help spider-mites go into dormancy, warm temperatures can prevent it, so they can continue staying active all year round irregardless of daylight length. In fact, nature has built in so much adaptability in spider-mites that they just seem to "know" when conditions will be suitable for their success, and they usually seem to show up, often just about the same time every year.

 

Although the cooler temperatures of wintertime slows down spider mite breeding (they don't seem to actually stop breeding unless it's cooler than about 52)

 

http://www.naturescontrol.com/spidermitedormancy.html

 

I wonder if it would help to shorten the light cycle, drop the temps and spray the hell out of them while they're dormant, before they can lay more eggs.

[Restorium2]

After you clean out the room bleach the whole room, 10% solution. Wear skin protection and a respirator. Doesn't matter if they are sleeping. 

[Norby]

I just ran across this tidbit I'd never seen before.

 

 

I wonder if it would help to shorten the light cycle, drop the temps and spray the hell out of them while they're dormant, before they can lay more eggs.

No.  They are impervious to pesticides while in stasis.  I'm telling you that I cleared them in a perpetual grow by getting the plants out of the room that were ready in under a month and spraying neem on day 1 and a Dr. Doom bug bomb(the active ingredient is pyrethrins, organic, made from crysanthemums) on day 3-4 and neem again on day 6-7.  The 1% piperonyl butoxide shouldn't be a concern.  Considering you are washing them 3x a day, I don't see how you couldn't do the same for neem or bug bomb as you harvest or spray them off in a shower before you harvest.  Spraying cold water 3 x a day is pretty intensive.  There has to be an easier plan.  When I got powdery mildew I had to cull anything in flower but was easily able to save veg.  You should have be able to do the same.  I've cleared powdery mildew and mites in perpetual grows.

 

The new no pest strips don't seem to work like they used to.  I think they changed active ingredient as I used them once 20 years ago and then got them again where the neem and bug bomb worked and tried the pest strip first with no effect.

Edited March 5, 2016 by Norby

[Restorium2]

No.  They are impervious to pesticides while in stasis.

Also, I believe they will eventually adapt to every pesticide they are introduced to.

[Restorium2]

This was so cool I need to repost it;

Here's your answer as to why CO2 did not work;

 

[Wild Bill]

No.  They are impervious to pesticides while in stasis.

 

I'd never heard that. Why would they be impervious to poison if they're dormant?

 

But I was thinking more about the alcohol sprays. I never use any pesticides.

 

The alcohol sucks the moisture from their bodies I believe, so it shouldn't matter whether they are awake or asleep.

[Restorium2]

I'd never heard that. Why would they be impervious to poison if they're dormant?

 

But I was thinking more about the alcohol sprays. I never use any pesticides.

 

The alcohol sucks the moisture from their bodies I believe, so it shouldn't matter whether they are awake or asleep.

Because they are not taking up the pesticide. But they will die from direct contact with the bleach solution. 

[trichcycler]

eggs die on the bench when soaked in ANY essential oil. not real life plant mite life, but they do die. eggs need to breathe oxygen. oil stops this action. real life full coverage is difficult sometimes. that's one reason it does work for some, while not for others.

Edited March 5, 2016 by grassmatch

[Norby]

I'd never heard that. Why would they be impervious to poison if they're dormant?

 

But I was thinking more about the alcohol sprays. I never use any pesticides.

 

The alcohol sucks the moisture from their bodies I believe, so it shouldn't matter whether they are awake or asleep.

The adult female is oval, approximately 1/50-inch long, greenish to slightly orange, with two dark spots on either side of their body and four pairs of legs. The male is smaller than the female. Photo of adults and eggs by Leanne Pundt, UConn Extension

This mite prefers the lower surface of leaves, and bud and flower parts that offer protection. The mite spins thin strands of silk that develop into extensive sheets of webbing when the infestation is severe.

The globular or round shaped eggs are laid singly, up to 100 per female during her 3 to 4 week life span. When spider mite eggs are first laid, they are transparent and can be seen using a 10X handlens or magnifier.  They turn straw colored near the time of hatching.  The eggs hatch in as few as 3 days depending on temperature, and the newly hatched mites begin to feed immediately. Larvae are at first colorless and develop color as they feed. Their characteristic body spots are more distinct in the nymphal stage. After as few as 5 days, the mites pass through two nymphal stages (deutonymph and protonymph) and become adults. Spider mite adults are easily recognized by their two dark spots on either side of their body.  Females begin laying eggs 1 to 3 days after emerging as adults, and mating is not required. The development from egg to adult may take as few as 7 days at 81°F and about 20 days at 64°F.

With decreasing day length in the fall, as well as falling temperatures and less available food, female spider mites enter diapause.  Females entering diapause become an orange-red color within a few days of becoming an adult. They may overwinter in hoop houses and cooler greenhouses in a dormant stage. During this time, they do not eat, or lay eggs and are less susceptible to pesticides.  They are also more difficult for predatory mites to find.

 

I have read elsewhere that they are impervious to pesticides as they create a cell out of their exoskeleton.  So you want it closer to 80f so the eggs hatch out.  If you cover with neem the sped up life cycle makes it so they eat more and get a dose of neem that stops their maturing and laying eggs, then you bug bomb while they are in this more fragile state and all the eggs are hatched.  You have to break the cycle by stopping egg production.  If you just spray neem and don't completely cover they can eat and get a lo enough dose of neem that doesn't stop them.  Neem just sterilizes them and stops them from molting to adults, which eventually kills them.  Adding the full coverage of a mostly organic bug bomb covers nook and crannies better than bleach, esp since bleach reacts with organic material(dirt) and deactivates. If you have rugs it's going to be a LOT harder.  If you are in the basement spray oil on the floor or diatomaceous earth for carpets(works on fleas and spider mites.  Oil and diatomaceous earth will smother and cut them(don't use both together or oil will work but earth is just overkill, could use DE in soil and oil on floor) so that they can't go anywhere.

Edited March 5, 2016 by Norby

[imiubu]

mibrains... did you try my recipe?

 

 

In years past I used only Ivory Liquid (original soap) with a couple drops of olive oil with great success.

 

The soap breaks the oxygen barrier and the oil coats them so they can't breathe.

 

 

Old school methods sometimes are the best.

 

Take one of those infested leaves and douse it under the scope and see what happens

 

 

Sorry you are going through this and thanks for sharing your journey.

Those vids made me go look in my garden... again this morning

 

Whew... no bugs... for now anyway.

 

Good luck to all battling the borg.

[Norby]

You could also find a plant that they can't resist, put it in the middle of the plants for a few days and then take that plant out and spray it.  If you also spray the mj plants with neem you should be able to use it as a trap plant.  Or if they can't sense the avid or flouramite you could treat this host plant with those and use it as a poison bait in with the other plants.  If you use imi's recipe and treat the plant once every 3 days and then spray it off in the tub and repeat, it should work as a good trap plant.

  There was a plant that we used the seeds for breath mints from that was covered with spider mites right outside my door back in NYS, they LOVED it.  I'll have to see if my wife remembers.  We got it from an herb sale.  The seeds tasted like anise or black licoricey.  I'm sure there are other plants, the op said they swarmed to just a certain strain of MJ.  If the other strains you grow are resistant you could use the certain strain they love as a trap strain and just loose that one or just used the chems to save that one strain using the other cuttings as traps or poison bait.  Lots of different plans you could try.  KNowing the life cycle, way the sprays, bombs work and env conditions you can come up with a fool proof plan.

Edited March 5, 2016 by Norby

[Norby]

Also, I believe they will eventually adapt to every pesticide they are introduced to.

Not necessarily everything but yes a lot of them could. But if you use 2 methods you can eradicate them all and they don't have a chance to adapt.  They adapt when you aren't thorough and let them have the time to adapt.  Depending on the method some are easier to adapt to.  Imi's old fashioned soap or oil is one they could never(well pretty much) adapt to.  It smothers them and doesn't use a nervous system kill.  Supposedly neem is near impossible for them to adapt to because of the route it kills them in. But all the nervous system killers can be adapted to I think.

[imiubu]

You could also find a plant that they can't resist, put it in the middle of the plants for a few days and then take that plant out and spray it.  If you also spray the mj plants with neem you should be able to use it as a trap plant.  Or if they can't sense the avid or flouramite you could treat this host plant with those and use it as a poison bait in with the other plants.  If you use imi's recipe and treat the plant once every 3 days and then spray it off in the tub and repeat, it should work as a good trap plant.

  There was a plant that we used the seeds for breath mints from that was covered with spider mites right outside my door back in NYS, they LOVED it.  I'll have to see if my wife remembers.  We got it from an herb sale.  The seeds tasted like anise or black licoricey.  I'm sure there are other plants, the op said they swarmed to just a certain strain of MJ.  If the other strains you grow are resistant you could use the certain strain they love as a trap strain and just loose that one or just used the chems to save that one strain using the other cuttings as traps or poison bait.  Lots of different plans you could try.  KNowing the life cycle, way the sprays, bombs work and env conditions you can come up with a fool proof plan.

 

Thanks Norby, I should have stated that this is a very mild approach and does take diligence for sure. 

And a good regular rinsing as you have stated, thanks.

The very worst mite outbreak I've ever had prior to my growing cannabis, came in with some FF HP soil

and contaminated my Palm Tree like nothing I've seen indoors b4.  I used the Ivory/ oil mix only. 

A lot of time, and effort went into saving that plant.  I haven't seen one on that particular plant in years. 

Palms are very dense similar to cannabis is why I mention it.  I really thought I would loose my 10yr old Palm.

whew...  It is work.

I used the Iso, H2O2, oil recipe recently on the Thrips after getting lazy with the Ivory/ oil.  It did zap them.

 

I am still learning of course and don't know as much as the rest of you

I am attempting to grow in organic/ veganic soil and prefer not to use anything stronger than absolutely necessary for pest control.

I have a small dog also who likes to nibble on my fan leaves upon occasion.  I won't have anything making her sick either.

[medmanmike]

as far as i can tell.

after scanning select leaves from both rooms off of different areas of the plants....

 

i can't find nearly any dead mites... but there sure are plenty of live ones.

 

we can look further into this in the future.. however right now my main concern is the health and safety of my plants.

 

what now?

Have any of used Azamax? Azamax.com. I had a bad scale infestation a couple of grows ago. Everything I tried didn't work, including predator lady bugs. Then I found Azamax. The main ingredients come from the Neem tree. Appears to be organic. Works on mites.

[williams2311]

ok

CO2 does not work

sorry grass

not in my world

 

yesterday... after lights off and ice water spray...

 

11 am unplug vent fans plug in co2 controller directly.

so heres my data log

 

11 3k PPM temp 75

12 7196 PPM

12:23 9706 PPM 89 degree

1:36 10,279 PPM 91 degree

2:04 12,053 PPM 93 degree (mites should be all dead by now) (10k for one hour)

3:08 14,068 PPM 95 degree

4:15 15,250 PPM 97 degree

5:59 15,593 PPM 100 degree

6:50 15,900 PPM 100 degree

 

shut down.

 

this after ice water spraying for 2 days...

 

first thing this morning i anxiously go in to check the girls..

they seem happy..

 

pulled a sample leaf..

 

under the loop - no movement

 

a good sign right?

 

i don't trust it.. i went and dug out my electronic USB microscope and put it under the zoom...

 

what do you know?

 

LIVE MITES

 

so many of them... scurrying around like its nobodies business.

 

sorry i say Ice Water and CO2 are officially a myth as far as here goes????

 

how can it work for one person and not another?

 

the first Mite i saw alive i squished with my pencil lead...

 

back to square one.

 

so i guess its off to the store to buy a new product -

 

shall we discuss which one? i am leaning towards mighty wash as mentioned above.

 

i am also intrigued by the spray bomb spray idea.

 

in the past... when i first got mites there was only one thing that finally got rid of them. that was Hot Shots brand no pest strips. put in the room for 2 weeks then sealed and stored for 2 weeks then repeat for 3-4 months...

it broke the life cycle. and i was able to gain a foot hold against these inextinguishable f u c k i n g t u r d b a l l s...

 

 

AHHHHRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH

 

UGGHHH

 

D A M N IT A L L! !

 

!#%$^%$!@$^%!@!^@&* these $$^$^%*&@#^*&^ sons of a ^**&^*^%^&$$*()

 

..............................................................................

Mighty wash. Get 360 sprayer soak under side of leafs then the top of them (guy at garden shop said soak til they droop)and repeat every 3 days til you sprayed 3 times (i only did twice) and it worked wonders for me. Planta took the stress of spraying like that in flower well with no real noticeable issues or hermies. Also did not effect smell or taste.

As grass states what works for you may not work for everyone else but i can say it worked well for me

[t-pain]

or if they are far into flower just live with the mites?

 

i know phaq doesnt mind the bugs.

anyone else here a bug-luver?

 

rather eat the bugs than eat the pesticides... but thats me.

[imiubu]

What about companion planting?

 

Like Marigolds or something that instead of suggested above using a plant as a 'trap' plant

(not that I think it's a bad idea), have a few in the garden that is known to repel the insects?

[t-pain]

there are companion plants for spider mites. probably both repel and trap. good idea, imi.

 

http://homeguides.sfgate.com/companion-planting-defeat-spider-mites-73748.html

[imiubu]

Thanks for the link t-pain.

 

I thought of it but hadn't researched it yet.

 

I am going to start my chives and cilantro seeds today + some organic garlic.

 

The link says that Dill is a good companion plant for Lettuce and Cabbage.

Lettuce (Lactuca sativa) ?  Hmm any relation to cannabis sativa?

 

 

Yep, gonna drop some of those seeds in some soil today too.

 

 

 

Experiment is on!

[Restorium2]

Be careful having foreign sprouts around your marijuana plants because law enforcement is going to count and ask questions later ....

[imiubu]

Good thinking resto. 

 

I will not be starting any of then in my grow area.

 

Once they are established I will then move them.